Casino Chip of the Day

Quote: Doc

Well, I don't really know much to say about Fiesta Rancho that won't seem redundant after yesterday's chip.

I forgot to mention yesterday that "fiesta" is Spanish for "party," "holiday" or "celebration." A birthday party, for example, is "fiesta de cunpleaños." Whena small town or village throws together a celebration of its patron saint (this is common in latin America and Spain, or it used to be), that's called "la fiesta de San Juan," or "the feast of St. John." Curiously, though, "fiesta" does not mean "feast" as in a lavish and/or large meal.

But this isn't the SWD :)

Here's my Fiesta Rancho chip. Collected as a part of a barnstorming session of North Las Vegas casinos.

Doc, are the edge inserts on your chip as clean and uniform as they look? That's pretty impressive.

Quote: Nareed

But this isn't the SWD :)

That's fine. The Wizard said early in this thread, "I think I'll focus on the actual casino names." Unfortunately, in his first attempt, it appeared that he mistook an Italian word for a Spanish word after getting the spelling wrong. He posted several times in the first week of this thread's life, but I think he has been absent since. We'll just count on your input to clarify the Spanish aspects. Not to get ahead of things, but tomorrow's Casino Chip of the Day has a name with Spanish origins, too. For today, you could just tell us something about "Rancho", too, and explain why so many roads in Las Vegas would be named Rancho Whatever. I mean, are/were there really that many ranches around this area?

Or maybe we should talk about the concept of a casino complex in the middle of a Nevada desert resort area having an ice skating arena with public access. I think that's more extreme than a water park, but I didn't mention it in my original Fiesta Rancho post.

Quote: Doc

For today, you could just tell us something about "Rancho", too, and explain why so many roads in Las Vegas would be named Rancho Whatever. I mean, are/were there really that many ranches around this area?

Well, it does mean "ranch."

In the US Southwest, meaning from Texas to California, but including non-border states like Nevada and Colorado, and in Mexico's north, there's a lot of Spanish-English admixture. Partly this stems from the fact that much of the US Southwest at one time belonged to Spain or Mexico, partly due to much crossborder travel. The point is some words are the same or nearly so on both sides of the border, and sometimes it's hard to say which language originated them.

"Rancho" does originate in Spanish, and has a lot more meanings than a farm that raises livestock.

Anyway, if you drive on any Mexican highway, from time to time you see small roads branching off the sides into farms and ranches, with small signs that say, for example, "Santa Rosa 3," or "El Relámpago 5." the signs indicate the name of the farm or ranch, and the distance in kilometers. It's likely this system was used, on dirt roads, prior to the mid XIX Century when Mexico lost much of that territory to the US (no hard feelings, except why did you stop so far north?).

So possibly there were a great many ranches around Vegas, and streets that pass through were they used to be kept the names of some ranches.

Quote:

Or maybe we should talk about the concept of a casino complex in the middle of a Nevada desert resort area having an ice skating arena with public access. I think that's more extreme than a water park, but I didn't mention it in my original Fiesta Rancho post.

Cool :)

Sorry, natural reaction... Come to think of it, in these days where ice rinks are common on cruise ships, I'm a bit surprised there aren't more ice rinks in Vegas. Why isn't there a small one under a scale replica of Rockefeller Center in NYNY, for example? Perhaps the city needs yet another round of booming grandiosity to get there?

Quote: rdw4potus

Doc, are the edge inserts on your chip as clean and uniform as they look? That's pretty impressive.

Thanks for the chip image, rdw4-potus.

I'm not really sure how to reply. My chip looks very much like the photo. I think the pie-shaped edge inserts on the Fiesta Henderson chip are well done, too. On the Fiesta Rancho chip, if you look at the edge and examine the insert through the thickness of the chip, it appears not just as a rectangle but has a sharp point in each direction, like arrowheads. I don't know whether that is a design feature or just how the material spread during the molding process.

When I posted my Excalibur chip, I commented that there are sites on-line that say that when the Burt Company was making the top hat and cane chips for Christy and Jones and then for Paulson, they did a better job with the edge inserts than Paulson did after taking over the manufacturing themselves. Some of the comments suggested that for the wider inserts, not only did Burt Co. made the edges smooter, but they made the inner edge concave, so it circled around the center of the chip rather than bulging toward the center.

Looking at my chip, especially the light pink insert, the edges are not straight and the insert has sort of a "mushed" look. Looking at Doc's chip, even with the dark green where pigment bleed into the white clay of the chip would seem possible, the edge is uniform and crisp. I wonder how the process works. Is that easier to accomplish with larger inserts? I will investigate the side of my chip when I get home this evening to see if the edges of the inserts are concave.

Quote: Doc

Not to get ahead of things, but tomorrow's Casino Chip of the Day has a name with Spanish origins, too.

Ooops! Sorry. That comment about "tomorrow" was even more premature than that. I was thinking about Sunday's casino chip, and Nareed will be traveling that day. Maybe she can log in and provide commentary after getting settled into Las Vegas.

Quote: rdw4potus

... I wonder how the process works. ...

You're sure not alone on that! Maybe it's just my background in manufacturing processes, but I think a documentary film (or better yet, a factory tour) covering each of the chip types would be fascinating. My impression is that the manufacturers wouldn't take to that very well.

Quote: Doc

Ooops! Sorry. That comment about "tomorrow" was even more premature than that. I was thinking about Sunday's casino chip, and Nareed will be traveling that day. Maybe she can log in and provide commentary after getting settled into Las Vegas.

Sunday's going to be hard. I intend to land running (not literally <w>), and go on a grand, but quick, tour of several casinos I don't have cards for. To list a few, more or less in order of increasing distance from 4Queens: Plaza, Binion's, Palace Station (which I think covers the Fiesta casinos as well), Venetian, Cosmopolitan and Palms. Then I need to mount a shopping expedition. And everyhting has to be done on Sunday (I'll explain when we meet, if you should be interested). Oh, and I have to stop at the Riviera and play the promo (that ought to be quick, as my uppermost limit is $200)

Monday's rahter full, too. I'll either do the poker tourney or go shopping at an outlet mall (or both). But I may have some off time later in the day.

What I really should do is rent a car for those days, but that might actually take more time than it saves. It certainly takes more money

But this gives the forum at large a chance to cut my lead in post count :P

About chip-making, there are severla shows in the Discovery Channel that deal with manufacturing of all kinds of thins. There's "How It's Made" "How Do They Do It?" "Inside the Factory" and others. I ond't think they've covered gaming chips, but they might one day. You can find which are still in production and ask them to cover chips. Secrecy ought not be a problem, as in several shows they've skipped a step or two and explained "the way the doohickey is fitted into the thing-a-majig is a trade secret." they also dind't who all the security measures that go into bank notes when they covered that.

All this talk of "Rancho" makes me want to post a pic of my El Rancho chip...anyone ever visit that casino back in the day?

Quote: Doc

Ooops! Sorry. That comment about "tomorrow" was even more premature than that. I was thinking about Sunday's casino chip, and Nareed will be traveling that day. Maybe she can log in and provide commentary after getting settled into Las Vegas.

Gotta say, you had me confused there. I thought maybe you'd already moved tomorrow's casino, but then you don't have the new chip yet...

Quote: Johnzimbo

All this talk of "Rancho" makes me want to post a pic of my El Rancho chip...anyone ever visit that casino back in the day?

That establishment was gone long before my first visit to Las Vegas. I have suggested/requested that others hold off on their collections of chips from casinos not represented in mine. Then we will try to figure out some organized way to get everyone else's chips/casinos introduced in a manner that allows each one to be discussed fully. It sounds as if when my well runs dry, you may have some fabulous examples to post. Maybe this thread can go on for a long, long, time with great chip images and lots of stories about the places I never have been able to visit.

Quote: Doc

That establishment was gone long before my first visit to Las Vegas. I have suggested/requested that others hold off on their collections of chips from casinos not represented in mine. Then we will try to figure out some organized way to get everyone else's chips/casinos introduced in a manner that allows each one to be discussed fully. It sounds as if when my well runs dry, you may have some fabulous examples to post. Maybe this thread can go on for a long, long, time with great chip images and lots of stories about the places I never have been able to visit.

Sounds good to me...I'll wait

Quote: Nareed

About chip-making, there are severla shows in the Discovery Channel that deal with manufacturing of all kinds of thins. There's "How It's Made" "How Do They Do It?" "Inside the Factory" and others. I ond't think they've covered gaming chips, but they might one day. You can find which are still in production and ask them to cover chips. Secrecy ought not be a problem, as in several shows they've skipped a step or two and explained "the way the doohickey is fitted into the thing-a-majig is a trade secret." they also dind't who all the security measures that go into bank notes when they covered that.

I seriously doubt GPI would go for it. I don't think the process is very involved, and they would not want that "secret" revealed (like the man behind the curtain in the "Wizard of Oz".

Quote: Doc (yesterday mid-day)

This thread should cover the Four Queens chip on Monday the 7th, and that will probably be the last chip that I will try to post before WoVCon][. If I posted the next chip before heading to the airport on Tuesday morning, I would not be around to participate in the follow-up discussions.

OK, I'm going to start off with the excuses. #1. My wife and I hosted a party at our condo last night, and I was posting here in the midst of getting ready for that. #2. My thinking is heavily on all of the planned-or-in-limbo activities in Las Vegas next weekend.

Result: my brain is/was not working very well. Earlier today I posted some nonsense about "tomorrow's" chip when I meant the one I will be posting on Sunday, and I finally caught and corrected that. Well, the confusion was apparently well underway yesterday. I was correct that the Four Queens chip is on the schedule to be posted on Monday, but that will not be the last one before I leave town -- I won't be getting on the plane until Wednesday morning, not Tuesday. Senility can be a bitch.

State: Nevada
City: Las Vegas
Casino: Fitzgeralds

Fitzgeralds Casino and Hotel is/was a downtown Las Vegas establishment on Fremont Street. It began life in 1980 as the Sundance, with plenty of connection to organized crime. It was constructed on property belonging to Moe Dalitz, but because he could not get an NGCB license, the casino was run by his associates. They couldn't keep their noses clean either and by 1983 faced charges of skimming, ending their eligibility for licenses. With no one holding a license, management was temporarily turned over to Jackie Gaughan in order to keep it open, and the Sundance was sold in 1987.

Lincoln Fitzgerald owned two casinos in Reno, the Nevada Club and Fitzgeralds. I'm not sure why there is no apostrophe for "Fitzgerald's"; perhaps it is something like Caesars Palace, but the same explanation doesn't really fit. Upon Lincoln Fitzgerald's death in 1981, the Lincoln Management Corporation was established as owner of those facilities. That company bought the Sundance from Dalitz and renamed it Fitzgeralds, again without an apostrophe. At least they were consistent, even if I don't know the reason, and they used the same name for casinos in Colorado and Mississippi. They even changed the corporate name from Lincoln Management Corporation to Fitzgeralds Gaming Corp.

I should note that member NicksGamingStuff moved to Las Vegas last year, went to dealer's school, and became a dealer at Fitzgeralds, where he sometimes works a supervisory role. I expect to meet Nick for the first time exactly one week from today at WoVCon][, unless I make it to his table earlier in the week. What's your work schedule, Nick? Anything predictable? (BTW, I plan to have my earplugs with me.)

As with so many other casinos, Fitzgeralds experienced financial difficulties and bankruptcy proceedings. In 2001, it was sold to Don Barden. After his death last year, it was sold to (minority) Greg and (majority) Derek (nickname "D") Stevens, owners for the most part of Golden Gate. Quite recently, they announced a makeover and a renaming of Fitzgeralds as "The D", referring simultaneously to Derek's nickname, "Downtown", and their hometown of Detroit.

As yet, I believe there are no "D" chips in use, though the March NGCB Chip and Token Report included approval of some roulette and promo chips. The April report has just been released and does not list any "D" chips, so my hopes have been dashed for adding that chip to my collection while in town for WoVCon][. I don't suppose you have seen any have you, Nick? I don't think they could be around.

The Fitzgeralds chip shown below is, almost of course, a Paulson top hat and cane chip in gray with no edge inserts. This one is the Short Cane Version (SCV) rather than the Reversed Hat and Cane (RHC) version we have seen in so many of the recent chips. The green name and shamrock outline surrounding the $1 on the inlay is in keeping with the "Luck of the Irish" theme of the casino, at least prior to the recent rebranding. Nothing on this chip fluoresces under UV light. The MOGH catalog only indicates that this chip was issued in the 1990s.

In fact, that catalog shows five extremely similar patterns for Fitzgeralds chips, with one issued in 1988 and the other four issued in the 1990s. The oldest pattern has a hidden UV image of a hat and cane right on top of the "$1" in the center. Another version has the Long Cane Version (LCV) of the hat and cane around the perimeter plus a tiny UV image of a hat and cane right above the shamrock and below the letter "r" in the name. A fourth pattern is just like the one shown, except the "Las Vegas, Nevada" is in gray text instead of black, and the final design has the LCV hat and cane around the perimeter plus the gray text for the city and state.

That is five different designs that cannot be quickly distinguished by players or dealers unless they squint at the color of ultra-fine print and the LCV vs. SCV patterns and also have a UV light handy. I suspect that these chips are/were frequently mixed in use at the tables. All I can guess is this was some kind of inside joke between the security crew and the folks at Paulson. Any thoughts on this, Face? What does it take to amuse a security man?



Edit 5/22/12: Ayecarumba provided me the link to his Fitzgeralds chip, so I'm adding it here in an appropriate position. The MOGH catalog says this chip was issued in 2010 and that the image on the opposite side is slightly different. I am not familiar with this chip design or its manufacturer, so I guess I need to do a little research.






Edit 6/10/12. DJTeddyBear posted his chips, and an interesting image from the TV Checkout system:

Once again, in my effort to catch up...

I have the old style Fitzgeralds $1 chip as well as these new style $1 and $5.

As Doc mentioned, the back side DOES have a different image.
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SInce I haven't done a trip log yet (and may end up not), this seems as good a place as any to post this image of the TV after I checked out of The D a month ago:

Admin note: removed image www.djteddybear.com/images/fitz_holiday_inn.gif

The fact that they haven't had a chance to change the background image file or text from Fitzgerald's to the D is a little silly and embarrassing.

But what is the Holiday Inn connection and how old is THAT?

I have the same chip as well as a $0.25 chip that I won't post as the pic I took is blurry, but I spent many weekends at Sundance/Fitz in the 80's as it was my home away from home for many years. One weekend in the early 80's my entire family was there (mom, both brothers, my wife and my sis-in-law) and we were all playing 21. I got bored and went over to a bank of video keno machines and after about 5 minutes I hit a 5 spot for $202.50. The machine dropped $50 in quarters and I had to wait for the balance as hand pay. My wife wanders over and sees my hit, so she goes back to the 21 table and informs them of my luck. She comes back and sits next to me and before they come hand pay me, she hits her own 5 spot for $202.50.

I go tell the rest of the family that the wife had just hit the same jackpot that I had hit, and within minutes they all come over to try the "lucky" keno machines. My mom has never played keno or keno machines before so she asks my brother what to do. He tells her "it says play 1-4 coins so put 4 quarters in" and she does, then he grabs the wand and marks 5 numbers and hits start...and yes all five numbers came up! She hit for $810 and we were having a blast...good times!

Quote: Doc

As with so many other casinos, Fitzgeralds experienced financial difficulties and bankruptcy proceedings. In 2001, it was sold to Don Barden. After his death last year, it was sold to (minority) Greg and (majority) Derek (nickname "D") Stevens, owners for the most part of Golden Gate. Quite recently, they announced a makeover and a renaming of Fitzgeralds as "The D", referring simultaneously to Derek's nickname, "Downtown", and their hometown of Detroit.

I've a soft spot for the old Fitz, because last trip I won $150 from a $50 buy-in at 3CP. The new name strikes me, all the reasons explained notwithstanding, as just one more in a trend of using letters as the name of a hotel. You know, the M, the LVH, the D, and next the old Sahara reborn as the SLS. No doubt each has a reason for the particular letters, but going by the Bugs Bunny principle it is a trend.

Of course this trend does not include the habit in this board, and elsewhere, to shorten the names of properties to initials, like the MB, IP, MC, etc.

Nor am I saying it's wrong, just not that original.

Anyway, For now I like the nickname Doc came up with, "The Ditz," based, I hope, in my use of the name "Ditzgeralds" in another post. And I do mean this affectionately. I just jope actually visiting the place won't make me change my mind. I've a serious issue with persistent loud noises.

Quote:

The oldest pattern has a hidden UV image of a hat and cane right on top of the "$1" in the center.

I think I asked before, but, Doc, if you don't mind a reminder: please bring your UV light to WoVCon ][. We can have a little fun looking at currency and credit cards for UV marks. I'll bring along some pesos for that, too.

Quote: Nareed

Doc, if you don't mind a reminder: please bring your UV light to WoVCon ][.

I just added that to my list.

Yes, I am just nerdy/forgetful enough that I keep on my computer a Travel Checklist of things to do in advance of a trip, to do right before departing, to take on a plane trip, to take on a car trip, to take on all trips, etc. I print the list out a few days in advance, add any special items like "take UV flashlight", then scratch them off when accomplished. There are a variety of ways to cope with senility.

Quote: Doc

I just added that to my list.

Thank you.

Quote:

Yes, I am just nerdy/forgetful enough that I keep on my computer a Travel Checklist of things to do in advance of a trip, to do right before departing, to take on a plane trip, to take on a car trip, to take on all trips, etc.

I'm nearly the same. I keep reminders on my cell phone calendar to go shopping, do the laundry and other things.

For travel, though, I have a different system: I scour my room after I pack and find a half-ton of other thigns I need to take along :)

I'm often amazed at what people can forget when they travel. I've heard of passports, tickets, visas, money, and even luggage left behind at home. I name no names <w>

Quote: Johnzimbo

I have the same chip as ....

Are you sure it's the same? I mentioned that there are five almost identical designs of the Fitzgeralds chips. Post your $1 chip if it might be one of the other designs. At least confirm that yours is the SCV like mine (if you know the difference between that and the LCV) and that the city/state is printed in black like mine instead of gray. I'll let it slide if you don't have a UV light to check for the hidden images. :-)

By the way, that was a nice story about keno at Fitzgeralds.

Here's my Fitzgeralds chip. It features something I've never seen before - wear such that the tophats are just missing on the upper right side of the picture. The chip is in relatively good shape, but the edges are rounded and even the face is worn.

Quote: Doc

Are you sure it's the same? I mentioned that there are five almost identical designs of the Fitzgeralds chips. Post your $1 chip if it might be one of the other designs. At least confirm that yours is the SCV like mine (if you know the difference between that and the LCV) and that the city/state is printed in black like mine instead of gray. I'll let it slide if you don't have a UV light to check for the hidden images. :-)

By the way, that was a nice story about keno at Fitzgeralds.

Here it is...maybe you can tell if it is different

Quote: Johnzimbo

Here it is...maybe you can tell if it is different

Well, that is the same Short Cane Version (SCV) as mine, but the "Las Vegas, Nevada" looks to me to be the gray print rather than the black print that is on mine. Yes, the difference is quite subtle. That's why I suggested I don't see how Fitzgeralds changing to this "different" chip could provide much identity or security benefits to the casino. You'd really have to look closely to notice the difference between your chip and mine. MOGH does not indicate there are any hidden images to be revealed by UV light for either of the designs with the gray print. Since I don't have one, I can't check for myself.

Quote: Doc

That is five different designs that cannot be quickly distinguished by players or dealers unless they squint at the color of ultra-fine print and the LCV vs. SCV patterns and also have a UV light handy. I suspect that these chips are/were frequently mixed in use at the tables. All I can guess is this was some kind of inside joke between the security crew and the folks at Paulson. Any thoughts on this, Face? What does it take to amuse a security man?

Well, I can't say for certain. Our casino has been open less than a decade, so issues of different eras of cheques isn't something we've ever had to deal with.

My educated guess on why there are so many intermixed is that they simply received new cheques at various points in their history (for wear and tear, maybe new security features), and didn't feel it necessary to retire the old ones. Security isn't a huge concern with the "whites", and since they're nearly identical to the old ones, it wasn't worth the hassle or cost of replacement to get rid of them. Think old vs. new American currency; sure, the Treasurer's name is different, but otherwise they're nearly identical and, well, no one really cares about the $1 ;)

Personally, I wouldn't care about 5 different designs since, as you said, the patterns on these different $1's aren't easily distinguishable from each other. In fact, I think that's probably the reason that they have been allowed to be intermixed. If all the $1's look like each other, it's not really an issue. If only when they're noticeably different, or look like another denom, that we have a problem.

Random anecdote - I am horrifically colorblind; in my test to become a corrections officer, I was told "the only people who see color worse than you are people who cannot see, period". Yet, I've have no problem on the job, nor with my own bankroll when I've gamed. I think it's just a repeated exposure thing, you get used to the certain traits of the different denoms and can identify them at a glance, even if it's a glance from 25' away through a terrible monitor/camera combo from the late 80's (or through eyes that can't perceive color). Keep in mind, we don't see cheques as you do. We can't move them to more or less light, tilt them out of glare, or bring them right up to our eye, so such minor details are of no significance to us. Fine print, UV, that's more for Cage or Inspectors, those who can get up close and inspect for counterfeit.

I imagine our glasses-wearing friends can understand what I mean. Without glasses and blurry eyed, you can still identify a bill placed in front of you, even if you can't see the number, face, or read the fine print. You can probably confirm that the $100 and $20 are represented in the picture below. It's the same for us and cheques. In fact, the pic below is a very accurate representation of what we see during reviews (and to be completely honest, I wish some of our reviews were this clear ;)). Different colors of "ultra fine print" is something I doubt anyone (other than avid cheque fans) would notice =)

[img =http://ak2.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/338914/preview/stock-footage-united-states-currency-blurred-to-sharp-spinning.jpg]

Thanks for the perspective, Face. I guess I was thinking of situations more appropriate to higher-valued chips. Consider the case of the idiot-motorcyclist-son-of-a-judge who robbed the Bellagio -- suppose the big chips had not had RFID tags. The casino could cancel/withdraw that series of the chips and refuse to accept them any more. But then if all of their replacement chips look so nearly the same (like with the Fitzgeralds $1 chips), it takes a 30-second inspection of each chip to tell whether someone slipped in some of the old/withdrawn chips.

Now I know you wouldn't want to have that happen with $500 chips, so the replacements probably look a lot different. Maybe it isn't the security department that would worry about such things. I just thought that for the $1 chips, probably nobody cares, and it could be a little joke to have different series that are almost indistinguishable.

State: Nevada
City: Las Vegas
Casino: Flamingo

The Flamingo casino opened in 1946 as the third casino resort on the Las Vegas strip and is the oldest still operating, though none of the original structure remains. I once heard it said that you know a strip casino is old if there is a major avenue named for it. If I were to try to present the history of the Flamingo in this thread, I would probably ramble on for pages, even if I stuck to the best-known versions of the real history and avoided the dramatizations of Bugsy Siegel's role as presented in the various books and films.

In an abbreviated form, my understanding is that Siegel did not come up with the idea for the casino and did not start the construction. Those roles fell to a Billy Wilkerson, who encountered financial difficulties. Siegel did convince organized crime associates to invest in his idea to purchase, redesign, and complete the hotel-casino.

Unfortunately, as I understand it, Siegel knew nothing about design, construction, or casinos. He may have been played as a patsy all along, with someone else stealing from him throughout the construction phase, leading him into delays and a major cost overrun, and getting him into very hot water with the investors who thought Siegel was skimming.

When the casino hotel finally had its grand opening in 1946, it flopped because the place wasn't finished. It shut down for a couple of months in early 1947 to let construction progress a little further before re-opening, still incomplete but in a state that it could generate revenue and a little profit. Apparently not enough to please everyone, because Siegel was murdered in Los Angeles a couple of months later. Popular history has it that the murder took place in LA to keep the bad publicity of mob violence away from the investments in Las Vegas.

The various owners of the Flamingo over the years have traded on the Bugsy Siegel history and legends. Today there is a Bugsy's Bar inside the place and a memorial plaque, basically a tribute to Siegel, on the Flaming grounds near the wedding chapel.

A couple of days ago, after Nareed had told us a little about "Rancho", "Fiesta", "Fandango", "Eldorado", and "El Cortez", I suggested that she could be our Spanish resource for this thread and tell us about the word "flamingo". Unfortunately, she said she expected to be too busy to post today. I think she is on the plane to Vegas as I type this. I'm certainly not going to leap into the breach to explain the Spanish, because I might even confuse "flamingo" with "flamenco."

According to the always-reliable Wikipedia, the casino's original name of Flamingo Hotel and Casino was selected by Siegel because (1) Flamingo was the nickname he had given his skinny-legged girlfriend and/or (2) he considered the flamingos at the Hialeah Park racetrack to be symbols of good luck. The name as well as ownership changed several times. Some of the name variations over the years included The Fabulous Flamingo, Flamingo Hilton, and Flamingo Las Vegas. Just to confuse matters, from 1959 or '60 until 1979, there was also a nearby casino hotel called the Flamingo Capri, which is now known as the Imperial Palace.

Ownership, after the days of heavy involvement of organized crime, passed to Kirk Kerkorian (who has long been a big cheese at MGM, once being majority owner), then to Hilton Corporation, Park Place Entertainment, Caesars Entertainment (original edition), Harrah's Entertainment, and now Caesars Entertainment (2nd edition).

The Flaming chip shown below was manufactured by Bud Jones and includes a clear BJ logo on the center inlay. The MOGH catalog says this chip was issued in 2005, and the mold is the same design as the Crystal Bay and Eldorado Reno chips shown previously.

I'm sure there must be several people here who have other Flamingo chips to share with us, but does anyone have chips saying Flamingo Hilton or other older names for the casino? Let's leave any Flamingo Capri chips to post with those from the Imperial Palace and leave the Margaritaville chips until the thread gets to "M".



Edit 5/22/12: Ayecarumba provided me the link to his Flamingo chip, so I'm adding it here in an appropriate position. It is a Paulson SCV hat and cane mold that MOGH says was issued in 2011. There is also a 2011 issue that looks just like this but has the LCV mold on the opposite side, so I'm not sure which chip Ayecarumba has.

My chip says Flamingo Hilton and I grabbed it in the early 80's I believe though it may have been much later. I wasn't good at documenting dates or how I snagged my chips :(

Here's my Flamingo chip. It's made by Paulson, which makes me wonder if we have three different manufacturers in chips so far (mine, Doc's, Johnzimbo's).

Thanks for sharing your Flamingo Hilton chip, Johnzimbo. That one looks as if it is in remarkably good condition.

The MOGH catalog shows six different chip designs issued in the 1980s and 1990s that look almost like that. Five of the six have different UV images hidden on them. Other subtle differences are how dark/light the rainbow is printed and how dark/light the "Las Vegas, NV" is printed. The oldest issued chip does not have a UV image and does not include the "NV" after the city name. Very similar designs.



Edit: I should have noted that the UV images all show a top hat and cane, indicating that the chips are from Paulson, even though there is no logo that can be seen without the UV.

Thanks to you, too, rdw4potus for posting that $5 chip. Is that one very new to your collection? The MOGH catalog indicates that it was just issued in 2011.

Actually, I am a little confused by the MOGH listing for this chip. They have two different entries, both listed as issued in 2011. One of them has the SCV version of the hat and cane, like yours. The other entry has two images of the chip, one that is SCV and one that is LCV. It seems to imply that they made the chip with different mold designs on the two faces. I have never noticed a chip like that, either in the catalog or in my hand.

Does the logo look the same on both sides of your chip? In the SCV, the cane very nearly touches the brim of the hat, as in the image you posted, while in the LCV there is a little more separation.

Quote: Doc

Thanks to you, too, rdw4potus for posting that $5 chip. Is that one very new to your collection? The MOGH catalog indicates that it was just issued in 2011.

Actually, I am a little confused by the MOGH listing for this chip. They have two different entries, both listed as issued in 2011. One of them has the SCV version of the hat and cane, like yours. The other entry has two images of the chip, one that is SCV and one that is LCV. It seems to imply that they made the chip with different mold designs on the two faces. I have never noticed a chip like that, either in the catalog or in my hand.

Does the logo look the same on both sides of your chip? In the SCV, the cane very nearly touches the brim of the hat, as in the image you posted, while in the LCV there is a little more separation.

I did just pick up this chip in March when I swung through town after visiting Beatty and before returning to LAX to fly out. I replaced a very beat up chip that I'd picked up in 2010 with this one, which I grabbed at the same time as I added my margaritaville chip. Different molds on each face is very interesting. I'll pull out the chip and have a look this evening or tomorrow morning.

Quote: Doc

Thanks for the perspective, Face. I guess I was thinking of situations more appropriate to higher-valued chips. Consider the case of the idiot-motorcyclist-son-of-a-judge who robbed the Bellagio -- suppose the big chips had not had RFID tags. The casino could cancel/withdraw that series of the chips and refuse to accept them any more. But then if all of their replacement chips look so nearly the same (like with the Fitzgeralds $1 chips), it takes a 30-second inspection of each chip to tell whether someone slipped in some of the old/withdrawn chips.

Now I know you wouldn't want to have that happen with $500 chips, so the replacements probably look a lot different. Maybe it isn't the security department that would worry about such things. I just thought that for the $1 chips, probably nobody cares, and it could be a little joke to have different series that are almost indistinguishable.

You're welcome, Doc, and you got it. I'm sure these different $1's aren't a case of primary and secondary "sets", rather just different "series", if you will, of the same set of cheques.

For example, our cheques have a primary, secondary and tertiary color. Our $100's or "blacks" have a primary color of (duh) black. The secondary color is yellow, which is seen on the rim in little inserts that are maybe thrice the cheque width in length. The tertiary color is grey (or tan, I can't tell) and is likewise found on the rim, but the inserts are only the cheque width in length. Now, our secondary set, which would be used in Bellagio type cases, are still black but have a secondary color of white and a tertiary of purple, and these inserts are uniform in size. As you can probably imagine, it's still very easy to glance and identify denomination, and likewise very easy to see they're not the same set. If an issue occurred where a set was changed, it would be easy for Dealers, Security, or even us in Surv looking through poor coverage to notice a difference, which is kind of the point of different "sets" and the reason for me diagnosing your cheque issue as different "series" instead.

The same goes for all the cheques I could find, from $25 up to $5,000. I couldn't find any $1's or $5's; could be I didn't know where to find them, or could be there aren't secondaries. I'm inclinded to believe there aren't any.

Thanks, Face. Maybe I'm confusing things by using the wrong terminology, just out of ignorance. Once more to make sure I understand, what is the difference between a "set" and a "series" of chips?

Quote: Doc

Thanks, Face. Maybe I'm confusing things by using the wrong terminology, just out of ignorance. Once more to make sure I understand, what is the difference between a "set" and a "series" of chips?

You're welcome again. You're not confusing things, I'm just using terms that don't really exist ;) A "set" (real term) would be cheque sets of different secondary and tertiary colors, like I described for a Bellagio type incident. They're different colors for a reason, so I would be shocked to see them intermixed.

"Series" isn't really a technical term, just one I used to try to explain. This is speculation, but say your Fitz cheque was from the '88 batch (or "series" ;)) and had the grey micro print. Years go by and Paulson updates some equipment, maybe they change the ink to something more resistant to wear. Now the '90s series finds the printing a little sharper, a little darker, maybe even black instead of grey. Time goes on and UV stamps get introduced. When they order another batch in '00 (or whenever) the '00 series $1's now have UV, since it's easier to include them even though the $1's don't really need it. Fast forward to now, and you have 5 different "series" of cheques all intermixed.

Another little tidbit for general knowledge and maybe shed some more light, is cheques typically have anti-counterfeit requirements. $1's through $25's usually require at least 1 measure, where larger denom cheques require 2 or more. Since your Fitz $1's already have the color and the logo (both anti-counterfeit measures), I doubt microprinting or UV is a requirement and can therefore be a little off, or missing entirely.

I guess what I'm trying to say, to wrap this up and stop derailing, is that since the differences aren't required, and are so minute so as not to be easily recognized, that it's inconsequential.

Quote: rdw4potus

Different molds on each face is very interesting. I'll pull out the chip and have a look this evening or tomorrow morning.

I had a chance to look at my chip tonight. It's the same on both sides. Now I kind of want to find one that has been molded differently on the reverse, if such a chip does exist.

I also looked at the edges of several chips. We discussed concavity on the inserts a couple days ago, and I wanted to look things over. It appears that most of my chips have straight edges where the insert meets the primary chip mold. But, many of the chips that have two inserts that touch each other do feature a diamond cut or curved pattern between the two insert colors. I suppose that helps keep them connected during the manufacturing process?

State: Nevada
City: Las Vegas
Casino: Four Queens

I think the Four Queens Hotel and Casino is located at 202 Fremont Street. I say "I think", because I cannot find their address anywhere on their web site. Strange. Like if you don't already know where it is, they don't want you to stay or gamble there, and they sure won't bother giving directions.

The location is important, because in just five days, the Four Queens will be the site of WoVCon][, as noted half a billion times so far by Nareed, including in the current sig line of our most prolifically posting member. My wife and I will be flying out to Las Vegas Wednesday to join in those festivities. BTW, I think my wife may have abandoned her previous stance and will join us at Four Queens and even at El Cortez. Nareed, if you have good internet access for your laptop and are reading this, you should make that change on your attendees list.

The Four Queens was opened in 1964 by Ben Goffstein and named for his four daughters. After typing that, I remembered that the Wizard has written an article on the Four Queens in which he mentioned that origin of the name. Check out that review for all the info that I'm not going to repeat here.

Both Wikipedia and the Wizard's review say that the Four Queens is now owned by TLC Enterprises, the same company that owns Binion's across the intersection. However, it seems that life just can't be quite that simple. The casino belongs to Four Queens, Inc. (founded in 1966), which Business Week says has since 2003 been a subsidiary of TLC Casinos (founded 2002). TLC Casinos? TLC Enterprises? Which? It seems that there are dozens of companies around the country named TLC something or other, likely referring in most cases to "Tender Loving Care." Global Gaming Business claims that the real name of the corporation owning Four Queens Inc. is TLC Casino Enterprises. Well, I guess that covers all the bases.

I thought I would scope out and share a little more about how the ownership got to this point, but it just seems to be a jumble. In 1972, Hyatt Corporation acquired the Four Queens and operated it under a subsidiary called Elsinore Corp, which was spun off as a separate company in 1979. Like so many casinos, they filed for bankruptcy in 1995 and were taken over by a group of investors. In 2002, the company sold Four Queens, Inc. to SummerGate Inc. and dissolved the rest of Elsinore, since there were no remaining assets. How that got the ownership over to TLC Casino Enterprises, I'm not really sure, but I have seen references saying that Terry L. Caudill (i.e., the real TLC) is president of both SummerGate and TLC Casino Enterprises. Don't anyone dare let the tax man figure out which business owns the casino.

Just for giggles, you might be interested to hear that Manta.com provides a business profile for TLC Enterprises Inc. at 202 Fremont Street saying "TLC Enterprises Inc in Las Vegas, NV is a private company categorized under Meat Brokers." Yes, it's getting harder and harder to trust everything I find on the internet these days.

According to the MOGH catalog, the Four Queens issued four different but very similar $1 chips between 2000 and 2003. (Yes, this is a bit of déjà vu compared to my comments about Fitzgeralds chips and Flamingo chips.) Each of the Four Queens designs is white with four edge inserts in two colors. In three of the four designs, there are two opposing blue inserts, with two olive inserts offset 90°, as in the chip shown below. The four designs include three very similar patterns for the center inlay: one as shown below, one that eliminates the repeated web URL at the inlay edge and enlarges the remaining image a little, and one that eliminates both the repeating URL and the line under the word "Queens."

The three designs with the same edge insert colors have the casino name and city molded on the perimeter, as shown in the image below. I know that design is from Paulson, because my UV light reveals a top hat and cane logo centered on the inlay, even though the MOGH catalog does not mention that. The fourth design has blue and red edge inserts and has the Sun mold pattern from the Blue Chip Company, exactly as seen in the CasaBlanca chip posted earlier in this thread.

The thing I find quite interesting in this particular mix of similar chip designs is that the Blue Chip Company sample has a center inlay that looks extremely like the Paulson-provided center inlay shown below. I certainly hope that Blue Chip did not use the exact same inlays, including the Paulson hat and cane logo to be revealed only by UV light!



Edit 5/27/12: Check this post later in this thread about UV images visible on this and other chips.

Here's my Four Queens chip. It appears to be a bit different than Doc's. I'm not sure I've ever seen a chip with a website on it before. Also, and this might just be me, but www.fourqueens.com is a pretty easy site to remember. I probably don't need the reminder there...

Quote: rdw4potus

I'm not sure I've ever seen a chip with a website on it before.

I don't know that I have either. I'll try to keep an eye out for that as we go through this thread. I know I have one chip that lists the corporate owner on the center inlay but doesn't have the name of the casino on it anywhere. I think that's a bit bizarre.

I'll have to snap a picture of my Fitz chip. I think it's different.

Do that, s2dbaker. Let us see what you've got!

Quote: Doc

I don't know that I have either. I'll try to keep an eye out for that as we go through this thread. I know I have one chip that lists the corporate owner on the center inlay but doesn't have the name of the casino on it anywhere. I think that's a bit bizarre.

Yes, that one is bizarre. I keep meaning to go back to see if it's changed there. Maybe next year when the Horseshoe opens.

The Bonanza in Reno also frustrates me. That's a common casino name, but the chip just says "Bonanza." So when I was sorting, I had to correlate all of my other Bonanza chips to locations so that I could determine which one the location-less chip belonged to.

Nice font on the Four Queens chip, very stylish. Doc, could you please research the font and tell us what it is for each chip? :)

deleted

Quote: rdw4potus

The Bonanza in Reno also frustrates me. That's a common casino name, but the chip just says "Bonanza." So when I was sorting, I had to correlate all of my other Bonanza chips to locations so that I could determine which one the location-less chip belonged to.

Now that really is strange. The NGCB has a regulation that covers chips and tokens. Quoting from the .pdf document I downloaded from their site:

Quote: NGC Regulation 12 Chips and Tokens

12.030 Specifications for chips and tokens.
2. In addition to such other specifications as the chairman may approve:
(a) The name of the issuing gaming establishment must be inscribed on each side of each chip and token, and the city or other locality and the state where the establishment is located must be inscribed on at least one side of each chip and token; ....

It sure sounds to me as if a Bonanza chip without the city being shown on at least one side would violate the NGCB regulation. Now I don't know when your chip was issued nor when this reg may have been revised.

Edit: On further reading, I found one possible "out", but I don't see how it applies:

Quote: same NGCB document

3. The names of the city or other locality and the state where the establishment is located must be inscribed on at least one side of each chip and token unless the chairman finds, after application by a licensee, that such an inscription is not necessary because:
(a) The name of the issuing establishment is unique to one readily identifiable establishment in all gaming jurisdictions; or
(b) The inclusion of the city or other locality and the state is not necessary or beneficial for any regulatory purpose relating to the applicant.

Quote: Doc

Now that really is strange. The NGCB has a regulation that covers chips and tokens. Quoting from the .pdf document I downloaded from their site:

It sure sounds to me as if a Bonanza chip without the city being shown on at least one side would violate the NGCB regulation. Now I don't know when your chip was issued nor when this reg may have been revised.

Edit: On further reading, I found one possible "out", but I don't see how it applies:

sooooo...confession time - every time I've said "Bonanza" in this conversation, I've meant Boomtown.

I'm playing catch-up here....

Quote: Nareed

Ok, that does it. I'm declaring Ellis Island as the most overlooked nearly-on-Strip casino in all Vegas.

I fought to get Mike to let me include it on the Vegas maps I did.

Quote: zippyboy

Re: Excalibur dinner & Show
I've been twice. Dinner was cornish game hen eaten without utensils, watery (but tasty) potato soup in a cup and corn or broccoli stalk I think. Show was about 2 hours of jousting and rodeo-type barrel racing and horse jumping by knights in costumes. The audience sat in a circle around a rodeo arena that was divided up in colored sections that corresponded to the colors worn by the jousters, so we were encouraged to root and bang on the tables for our section's rider (Sir Galahad, the Dark Knight, etc...). I remember the constant cries of "Huzzah!" from the announcer. Very family-oriented and fun. It was a bit long though; kinda gets old watching the same horse stunts for 2 solid hours, and the ending took forever as the announcer introduced each rider and he did his special stunt yet again, then all the supporting cast came out for their applause and recognition, one small group at a time.

That description souns very much like the description of the dinner and show at Medieval Times.

Family Oriented? It think it's much more KID oriented.

Quote: Doc

As for three songs by Queen, isn't that about how many are included in the Fremont Street Vista Vision show about Queen?

Nope. Only two. I was VERY disappointed when I saw the show this past Friday. It started well. The lights go out, and all you hear are the familiar three stomps from We Will Rock You, but with more than the usual pause before repeating. THAT intro was well done. Then they played the actual song, followed by We Are The Campions, followed by another 30 seconds of the We Will Rock You stomps. I'm thinking, "That's the best they can do?"

On a side note, I also got a chance to listen to Carl 'Safe Sax' Ferris. Man that guy can make a Sax sing!

I have two different older $1 chips, likely snagged in the late 80's or early 90's, see below. Two stories about the 4 Queens come to mind for me.

1. I won the first video poker tourney I ever entered at the 4Q, around 1990. Entry fee was $125 but that got you your room for Friday/Saturday night so it was basically a free roll. I think they had about 200 entrants, anyways my win got me $5,500 and a plaque that I still have here somewhere.

2. I didn't know that each room there had a PA speaker in the wall, until I found out the hard way. I used to work graveyard, got off work one Friday morning at 8 A.M., drove home and the rest of the family was ready for the drive from So. Cal, so by the time we got to Vegas and checked in it was maybe 4 P.M. I was dead tired so while everyone went gambling I crashed out like a rock...and about 4 hours later they had a power outage downstairs...so some security officer gets on the PA to announce that the power will be right back. In my room the announcement must have been at 99 decibels, and I almost had a heart attack it scared me out of my sleep so quickly.

Quote: Johnzimbo

I have two different older $1 chips, likely snagged in the late 80's or early 90's, see below.

Thanks, Johnzimbo, for the chip images and the stories.

I checked the MOGH catalog and think your chip with the metal inlay was issued in 1978, but there were four similar desings, two in '78 and two in '80. The three newer chips were issued not far apart. The white one is one of the ones I tried to describe with my earlier post and was issued in 2000. The other two are commemoratives, including the millennium chip issued in 1999 and the one dated October 2000. I'm not clear on what it commemorates.

Speaking of commemorative chips, I should note that there were two commemorative chips issued in 2002 that looked very much like the one I posted, except those repeating URLs that surprised rdw4potus were printed in colors. The Halloween chip had the letters in orange and black, while the Christmas chip had them in red and green.