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EvenBob
EvenBob
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January 7th, 2012 at 12:28:26 PM permalink
The first casino ever in Ohio is opening in March.
Its in the first 4 floors of an old dept store in
Cleveland. 1600 new jobs, 500 of them dealers.
3 more casinos are set to open later, in Toledo,
and Columbus. This sucks even more tourist $
away from Vegas, the entire country is turning
into one giant casino.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
EvenBob
EvenBob
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January 7th, 2012 at 12:46:39 PM permalink
None of the new casinos are Indian joints, the
one in Cleveland is being developed by Caesars
and is expected to generate 100 million in revenue
every year. I wonder if there's a way to calculate
how much of that revenue would have been spent
in Vegas if the casino wasn't built. Every new casino
hurts the Vegas bottom line, but by how much, thats
the question.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
cclub79
cclub79
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January 7th, 2012 at 2:32:37 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

None of the new casinos are Indian joints, the
one in Cleveland is being developed by Caesars
and is expected to generate 100 million in revenue
every year. I wonder if there's a way to calculate
how much of that revenue would have been spent
in Vegas if the casino wasn't built. Every new casino
hurts the Vegas bottom line, but by how much, thats
the question.



I'd think this hurts Mountaineer and Pennsylvania more than it hurts Vegas. Then again, you don't know if people who would never enjoy gambling who live a sheltered life in OH now get a taste of gaming and WANT to go to Vegas, whereas they never really did before.
MrRalph
MrRalph
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January 7th, 2012 at 2:32:45 PM permalink
The Cleveland Casino as well as the Toledo Casino have had their opening dates pushed back to June at least. Their gaming permits have not been approved and it will take at least until then to get that done. It was in the paper and on the local news the other night.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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January 7th, 2012 at 3:34:29 PM permalink
Look how big the casino in Toledo is, 125,000 sq ft gaming area.
I love the buliding style, very 1930's Art Deco look.

"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
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January 7th, 2012 at 4:15:10 PM permalink
1) The Horseshoes that are in Cleveland and Cincinnati are not owned by Caesars directly, but will be managed by them.

Quote: source: Horseshoe Cleveland Website


Rock Ohio Caesars LLC (ROC) is a joint venture comprised of Midwest-based Rock Gaming LLC, and the world's largest casino entertainment company, Caesars Entertainment Corporation. ROC will develop urban casinos in downtown Cleveland and downtown Cincinnati; Caesars Entertainment will manage the casinos.

ROC is developing the Phase 1 Horseshoe Casino Cleveland in the City’s Historic Higbee building and expects to open in early 2012. The initial phase will create up to 1,600 casino jobs. A Phase 2 casino will also be developed by ROC between the bank of the Cuyahoga River and Huron Road in the heart of Cleveland’s downtown entertainment district. As a truly urban casino, plans call for the development to include outward facing restaurants and retail to engage pedestrians and support existing cultural, nightlife and sports attractions downtown. The gaming operation is projected to attract 8 million visits to downtown Cleveland annually, while creating approximately 8,000 direct and indirect construction and permanent jobs at the casino.



I think this is the best of all scenarios, with the only "drawback" for Horseshoe being that they'll have to honor Total Reward credits earned against dollars that they don't get at casinos that they do own (i.e. Vegas). This likely will have such a miniscule effect, and I'm sure once ROC goes belly-up (which they certainly will), Horseshoe will get to own the casino outright for pennies on the dollar. This is different from the Penn properties where Penn National will actually own and operate them.

Quote: cclub79

I'd think this hurts Mountaineer and Pennsylvania more than it hurts Vegas. Then again, you don't know if people who would never enjoy gambling who live a sheltered life in OH now get a taste of gaming and WANT to go to Vegas, whereas they never really did before.



2) I agree with this comment. Erie's casino will probably suffer the most, with Mountaineer a close second. Both casinos draw heavily on the Northern Ohio market. Still, Steubenville and a few other larger cities are closer to Mountaineer, whereas Erie loses Western PA to Horseshoe, and Eastern PA to the NY casinos. As both are owned by the same company with a strange 1920s theme, it seems unlikely anybody will buy them up.

As far as Vegas, I don't think that's a concern. Junkets and airfare really focuses on bring Ohioans to Atlantic City more than Vegas. Shopping and restaurant options are much better in Vegas, and there's the sexy appeal of all the clubs. Besides, Horseshoe will get people with their fantastic room offers, and once Penn fully integrates M Resort into its brand image (which is HEAVILY focused on Hollywood), they can get the Midwest customers too.

3) My prediction is Toledo and Cincinnati struggles. Toledo is too close to Detroit, and its unlikely they will offer low table minimums or great paybacks and promotions. While you take your life in your hands going to Detroit casinos, they are large and deals can be found. Cincinnati will face stiff competition from Hollywood Lawrenceburg, who will HAVE to make concessions to keep their table game customers, especially their poker room. Belterra, which is more of a resort anyway, will sweeten their deals and emphasize their consistently low minimums and "great values."

Cleveland will have a honeymoon like none other. Expect table mins to be ridiculously high (similar to Hollywood Charles Town) early on, backing off a bit later on. Then there will be a post-honeymoon crash like none other. While Cleveland is huge and people will always gamble, it's a city still reeling from the recession. There won't be enough of a draw beyond the city limits, and expect Erie and Mountaineer to offer promotions, cashback, free rooms and comps galore. It will never hurt but it won't be spectacular forever.

Columbus was the huge win. It's in a (relatively) good area, with nearby interstate access and they are already working on roads. A lack of a hotel early on will hurt business outside of the central Ohio area (and lack of hotel options nearby), but they won't rely on that traffic. You have a strong poker business through clubs that will make the poker room packed nearly all the time. Table mins will be high, but not ridiculous as the closest casino will be reeling Wheeling Island who will ramp up efforts to capitalize on those who don't want to be fleeced.

I hope not to be living in Ohio by the time any of these open, but I'm sure I probably will be...
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
EvenBob
EvenBob
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January 7th, 2012 at 4:43:44 PM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

As far as Vegas, I don't think that's a concern.



Any new casino opening hurts Vegas, if only a little.
It adds up over time, and a trickle becomes a flood
of lost revenue. I rarely go to Vegas now, and I used
to go all the time. The local casinos are just too darn
convenient. Its going to hurt Detroit, which is less
than an hour from Toledo. Why do you not want to
be living in OH, don't you like casinos?
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
teddys
teddys
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January 7th, 2012 at 10:40:09 PM permalink
The Cleveland casino is going to be huge. Cleveland has always been a big gambling town -- they have been a huge Vegas feeder market for a very long time and of course the Central States Teamsters Pension Fund, the Mayfield Road Mob, etc...tons of gambling ties. It will be immensely profitable, just like Detroit's casinos. ROCK ventures is Dan Gilbert's outfit, the guy behind Quicken Loans and the Cleveland Cavaliers, so he has plenty of money. They will be swimming in it.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
EvenBob
EvenBob
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January 8th, 2012 at 1:00:53 AM permalink
Most people don't know that in the late 1800's,
Cleveland was a mecca for millionaires. The
original John Rockefeller had a mansion there,
as did other robber barons. New York became
the hub of business, and they all moved there
in the 1890's. Cleveland, who woulda thunk..

Millionaires Row
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
fremont4ever
fremont4ever
Joined: Nov 24, 2009
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January 8th, 2012 at 3:55:59 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Any new casino opening hurts Vegas, if only a little.
It adds up over time, and a trickle becomes a flood
of lost revenue.



Yeah, all those pretty casinos in Atlantic City, and Laughlin, and the riverboats, and the Native American casinos, and New Orleans, and Detroit really brought LV to its knees. NOT. The newer casinos seemed to be hit just as hard by the recession as the ones in Vegas, only no one city relies on them as heavily. Which is not to say it couldn't happen THIS TIME, but the odds are against it.

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