rxwine
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August 15th, 2011 at 5:04:35 PM permalink
...within 6 months.

It's not absolutely certain. I think there might still be some suing going on.

I wonder if Vegas owns any kind of record for blowing up its own buildings? (per population size if not total numbers)
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Wizard
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August 15th, 2011 at 5:12:34 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

I wonder if Vegas owns any kind of record for blowing up its own buildings? (per population size if not total numbers)



Me too. I think if someone put together a list of the largest buildings in the US ever imploded, deliberately (not counting 9-11), Vegas would be all over it.

This sounds like a job for Paco.
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FleaStiff
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August 15th, 2011 at 5:23:16 PM permalink
I always thought the various lawsuits would mean there would be a court ordered forensic demolition rather than just a Big Cloud of Dust type thing.

If you build plain vanilla and put money into decorations its easy to tear down and start anew every now and then with a bigger better splashier plain vanilla building with press releases.
Ayecarumba
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August 15th, 2011 at 5:24:20 PM permalink
Perini really screwed up on that project. They should have to eat the whole cost. There is a small potential for it to fall over and hit a populated CityCenter structure.
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VegasVic14
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August 15th, 2011 at 6:03:55 PM permalink
It will take six months to prepare and implode the tower structure and an additional four months for debris removal once the lawsuits have been settled...and that could be years away.
Joseph Kulas
soulhunt79
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August 15th, 2011 at 6:09:36 PM permalink
Assuming it happens that will be one ugly shell for a few months. Guessing they will be striping all the glass off so all the building is exposed.

That is one implosion I'd like to see though. I don't think I've seen one in the middle of so many other buildings before.
pacomartin
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August 15th, 2011 at 8:42:14 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Me too. I think if someone put together a list of the largest buildings in the US ever imploded, deliberately (not counting 9-11), Vegas would be all over it.

This sounds like a job for Paco.



Only 20 buildings over 100 meters have ever been destroyed in America. Half were in NYC, and only 2 were in Las Vegas. But keep in mind that they were building skyscrapers in NYC decades before anywhere else.

But other than South Padre Island, Las Vegas is the smallest city.

They are pretty good at imploding buildings in crowded city blocks. They may have to spend more time removing glass before setting the fuse.


Name City feet story year usage
Landmark Hotel & Casino   Las Vegas  364   31   1969   hotel
Stardust West Tower   Las Vegas  356   32   1976   hotel
Singer Building   New York City  612   47   1908   office
Seven World Trade Center   New York City  570   47   1987   office
Deutsche Bank   New York City  517   39   1974   office
City Investing Building   New York City  487   33   1908   office
Savoy-Plaza Hotel   New York City  446   33   1930   hotel
National City Bank Building   New York City  432   32   1928   office
Hanover National Bank Building   New York City  385   22   1903   office
Knickerbocker Trust Building   New York City  381   27   1909   office
60 Wall Street   New York City  352   26   1905   office
Manhattan Life Insurance Building   New York City  348   18   1894   office
New York Coliseum Tower   New York City  345   26   1956   office
Tower Building   Baltimore  330   16   1912   office
Morrison Hotel   Chicago  526   45   1925   hotel
Greater Hudson Store   Detroit  410   29   1911   office / retail
Landmark Tower   Fort Worth  380   30   1957   office
One Meridian Plaza   Philadelphia  492   38   1972   office
First National Bank Building   Pittsburgh  387   26   1912   office
Ocean Tower   South Padre Island  381   31   -   residential
Wizard
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August 15th, 2011 at 8:46:16 PM permalink
By "largest" I was thinking total volume, not necessarily height. Still, an interesting list, thanks. The "year" I think refers to the year the building was made. Some of those were probably imploded due to 9-11 damage, but still survived the infamous day, to be imploded later. I was trying to rule out those.
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pacomartin
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August 15th, 2011 at 9:18:12 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

By "largest" I was thinking total volume, not necessarily height. Still, an interesting list, thanks. The "year" I think refers to the year the building was made. Some of those were probably imploded due to 9-11 damage, but still survived the infamous day, to be imploded later. I was trying to rule out those.



Yes, year does refer to when the building was dedicated. With the exception of Seven World Trade Center and Deutsch Bank, none of the other ones was demolished as a result of 911. Nearly all of them were demolished more than a decade ago. Singer building (world's tallest) was destroyed in 1968 to make room for new construction.


Name City feet story year demolished usage
Hanover National Bank Building   New York City  385   22   1903   1931 office
Savoy-Plaza Hotel   New York City  446   33   1930   1964 hotel
Knickerbocker Trust Building   New York City  381   27   1909   1964 office
Manhattan Life Insurance Building   New York City  348   18   1894   1964 office
Morrison Hotel   Chicago  526   45   1925   1965 hotel
Singer Building   New York City  612   47   1908   1968 office
City Investing Building   New York City  487   33   1908   1968 office
First National Bank Building   Pittsburgh  387   26   1912   1970 office
60 Wall Street   New York City  352   26   1905   1977 office
Tower Building   Baltimore  330   16   1912   1986 office
Landmark Hotel & Casino   Las Vegas  364   31   1969   1995 hotel
Greater Hudson Store   Detroit  410   29   1911   1998 office / retail
One Meridian Plaza   Philadelphia  492   38   1972   1999 office
New York Coliseum Tower   New York City  345   26   1956   2000 office
Seven World Trade Center   New York City  570   47   1987   2001 office
Deutsche Bank   New York City  517   39   1974   2001 office
Landmark Tower   Fort Worth  380   30   1957   2006 office
Stardust West Tower   Las Vegas  356   32   1976   2007 hotel
Ocean Tower   South Padre Island  381   31   -   2009 residential
National City Bank Building   New York City  432   32   1928   - office


Ocean Tower was uncompleted.

None of these buildings is as tall as the Fountainbleau.

I figured that volume was more important than height, but there aren't a lot of databases of buildings by volume.

I have never heard of a large hotel (1000 rooms or more) being destroyed except in Vegas and at the Kremlin. Most hotels that size are still fully functional.
Nareed
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August 15th, 2011 at 9:20:32 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I figured that volume was more important than height, but there aren't a lot of databases of buildings by volume.



How about just numbers? How many big buildings have been imploded in Vegas?
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pacomartin
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August 15th, 2011 at 9:32:13 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

How about just numbers? How many big buildings have been imploded in Vegas?



Here is one list
rxwine
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August 15th, 2011 at 9:53:42 PM permalink
You kind of worried me with the first list -- cause I thought I had imagined many more being taken down.
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rxwine
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August 15th, 2011 at 9:57:20 PM permalink
I imagine the easiest building to implode would be the Luxor.
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EvenBob
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August 15th, 2011 at 10:15:46 PM permalink
Cool list. I remember all those hotels, but when they're
gone I never even think about them.
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pacomartin
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August 16th, 2011 at 5:15:29 AM permalink
Video of Landmark Tower in Texas imploding . The demolition experts are pretty good at blowing up a building in a crowded urban area and not destroying the buildings around them.
Nareed
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August 16th, 2011 at 7:27:36 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Video of Landmark Tower in Texas imploding . The demolition experts are pretty good at blowing up a building in a crowded urban area and not destroying the buildings around them.



No question of that.

But the tons of dust kicked up when the target collapses are a major nuissance for everyone around, up to several blocks away. Then you have a weeks-long parade of debris removal trucks and heavy machinery, with a sideshow of people with hand tools. It's almost as bad as actual construction.
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DJTeddyBear
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August 16th, 2011 at 10:14:55 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Then you have a weeks-long parade of debris removal trucks and heavy machinery, with a sideshow of people with hand tools. It's almost as bad as actual construction.

The only reason it's not worse, is because of the speed.

Did anyone notice? In the list Paco provided, the first two implosions list the date the hotel closed as well as imploded. The implosions were only 4 months after closing. DAMN! That's quick!
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Wizard
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August 16th, 2011 at 10:31:49 AM permalink
I vow to watch this implosion. The Frontier and Stardust were very late at night, so I didn't bother with them. I can't be bothered to stay awake to midnight on new years any more -- getting too old. However, this time, I'll make an exception. In fact, I might try to get a room at the Planet Hollywood facing the Harmon for a good view. If so, any forum members will be welcome to join me for the show.
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pacomartin
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August 16th, 2011 at 11:36:31 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I vow to watch this implosion. The Frontier and Stardust were very late at night, so I didn't bother with them. I can't be bothered to stay awake to midnight on new years any more -- getting too old. However, this time, I'll make an exception. In fact, I might try to get a room at the Planet Hollywood facing the Harmon for a good view. If so, any forum members will be welcome to join me for the show.



Video of 70 structures being explosively demolished. It is pretty impressive how they control the debris.



As near as I can tell the same job would take about 2 months with a wrecking ball. I don't think that we can rule out that possibility.
FleaStiff
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August 16th, 2011 at 12:50:53 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

The implosions were only 4 months after closing. DAMN! That's quick!

I'm told that planning usually takes 8 months, so there may well have been structural engineers analyzing plans and taking samples prior to the hotel being formally closed.
DJTeddyBear
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August 16th, 2011 at 1:40:52 PM permalink
It's not just the planning.

Prior to an implosion, there is a lot of prep work.

For one thing, they gut the entire building. I.E. Not just the windows: Everything not nailed down, and a lot that is, gets removed.

Then they gotts drill all the holes and place the charges, etc.

I just can't see it getting done that quickly - even if they did have all the planning work completed ahead of time.
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EvenBob
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August 16th, 2011 at 1:51:45 PM permalink
The cost of the planning, gutting the building, planting the charges and blowing it up, and removing the debris, must be the same as building another structure half its size. Or so I would think.
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thecesspit
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August 16th, 2011 at 4:06:24 PM permalink
And ironically, it is half the size it was supposed to be....
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pacomartin
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August 17th, 2011 at 7:35:39 AM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

And ironically, it is half the size it was supposed to be....



Implosion of Strip hotel tower complex but doable claims that There's two, maybe three people in the world that can shoot a building like that.

Normally you build a complex in stages. If they had never built the Harmon until some of the other buildings went up, maybe they wouldn't have a building at all.
FleaStiff
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August 17th, 2011 at 8:06:08 AM permalink
I recall one company allowed Hollywood cameras inside the building for footage to be used in a movie. I just wish the demolitions companies would soak everything down so we would see less dust.

Please Note:

The political mucky mucks in Vegas just held a day of hot air generation regarding other stalled projects from both the view of safety and the view of eyesores that cost the local economy. Under consideration: a property maintenance ordinance addressing issues of "appearance" rather than just structural safety. This would be similar to the ordinances some towns have requiring that store front windows not be soaped or boarded-up if a business is closed but that the premises appear to be functioning despite the premises having been vacated. The problem is that unfinished skyscrapers are structurally sound and in the Las Vegas climate will probably remain sound for decades and decades. So its not really a safety issue. And its hard to impose any of this on existing but abandoned construction particularly when the developers have already waltzed in and out of various court-room and politically based cleansing procedures.
FleaStiff
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August 17th, 2011 at 8:19:14 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Normally you build a complex in stages. If they had never built the Harmon until some of the other buildings went up, maybe they wouldn't have a building at all.

Very true, but if they don't sink their money into the project, then they bank won't keep funding their commitment. Many an entrepreneur would have walked away when things were turning sour but the entrepreneur had already spent his money and was now spending the bank's money and so didn't care what was economically feasible once the foundation is well under way.

The problem with the Harmon was ultimately one of Construction Management with overtones of racial bias and entrenched sticky palms. The economy affected later decisions but the improper rebar spacing is the crux of the problem and that is something that is open and notorious to all the construction trades on the site, all the clerks and all the inspectors. Everybody was looking but nobody was seeing. Greased palms and sticky fingers as to some matters may be endemic but the spacing of rebar is a critical matter. At some point systemic corruption erodes too much. That wall around New York City's Central Park cost ten times what was sensible, but it sure is still standing today! It took a long time and it cost the taxpayers way too much, but nobody skimped on its actual construction.
pacomartin
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August 17th, 2011 at 9:36:05 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

The problem with the Harmon was ultimately one of Construction Management with overtones of racial bias and entrenched sticky palms. The economy affected later decisions but the improper rebar spacing is the crux of the problem and that is something that is open and notorious to all the construction trades on the site, all the clerks and all the inspectors.



A quick web search finds several stories involving accidents with rebar cages. Here is one from 2009 at the Mcarran airport involving the Perini construction company. The same company involved in the Harmon Hotel project.
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