rudeboyoi's Article on Gambling in Jail
My questions for rudeboyoi are:
1. Did you every had any problems with the guards or staff with regards to gambling? Any heat from up above? Or did they get a cut in the profits to look away?
2. You mentioned you ran a sports book and a couple of table games. Did you come out ahead during your time in jail? How much did you have to pay your assistants?
3. Did you ever have a problem with people not paying up?
Thanks again for the interesting article. Anyone else have any jail gambling stories?
Can I ask a honest question? Were you in a position to be objective, what is the over/under on you serving time again ??
Quote: gambler1. Did you every had any problems with the guards or staff with regards to gambling? Any heat from up above? Or did they get a cut in the profits to look away?
Glad somebody commented on the article. I just saw rubeboyoi yesterday and asked him about the guards. He said more or less that the guards were lazy and turned a blind eye to certain low-priority offenses, like gambling. I asked about hooch (homemade alcohol, sometimes known as "pruno"), which he said was commonly made and consumed. He commented that most guards were lazy, not wanting to bother anybody, or to be bothered. He emphasized that in jail, as opposed to prison, the guards are not allowed to touch the inmates. I'm sure he will comment himself once he notices the thread.
Another friend of mine used to work at the state jail near Indian Springs, where OJ is now serving time. She said that contrary to what shows like Lockup portray, the inmates have a great deal of power and get away with all kinds of stuff. After she spoke at length about all the misbehavior she saw routinely, I commented that I thought that the prisons were supposed to be rehabilitating people. She just laughed.
Quote: WizardGlad somebody commented on the article. I just saw rubeboyoi yesterday and asked him about the guards. He said more or less that the guards were lazy and turned a blind eye to certain low-priority offenses, like gambling. I asked about hooch (homemade alcohol, sometimes known as "pruno"), which he said was commonly made and consumed. He commented that most guards were lazy, not wanting to bother anybody, or to be bothered. He emphasized that in jail, as opposed to prison, the guards are not allowed to touch the inmates. I'm sure he will comment himself once he notices the thread.
Another friend of mine used to work at the state jail near Indian Springs, where OJ is now serving time. She said that contrary to what shows like Lockup portray, the inmates have a great deal of power and get away with all kinds of stuff. After she spoke at length about all the misbehavior she saw routinely, I commented that I thought that the prisons were supposed to be rehabilitating people. She just laughed.
First, where is the article? I didn't notice it here.
On COs and prison, I think Wiz is spot on here. I've met a few COs and it is scary what they say. Most I won't repeat here (PM me if you want to hear) but as to inmates having "power" I was told the following. Guy said upon hire and working in GenPop he was "approached" by leaders of one racial group, Mexican I think but they all worked the same. They said politely but firmly that THEY enforced discipline among their group and any problems within the Mexicans were to be taken to THEM (the leaders) and THEY would take care of it. Eventually he did take something to them and the next day the offending inmate had been taken care of.
Then he said they had a child-molester locked on tier for his own safety. Said, "we fed him every 2-3 days like clockwork." When I said I'd be afraid of getting caught for it all he laughed at me.
In NY I had a co-manager serviced the prisons personally often. The guy was kind of a frustrated warden with a collection of books on corrections. He worded it to me that while a few COs are truly trying to do good (they just couldn't or didn't become cops) most were just passing time. He said the only things they cared to and did talk about were how much OT they could get and how long to retirement. And he said guys in their 20s knew to the week how long to retirement.
That's all the further I will talk about on the air.
Quote: AZDuffmanFirst, where is the article? I didn't notice it here.
Here it is.
Quote: AZDuffmanHe worded it to me that while a few COs are truly trying to do good (they just couldn't or didn't become cops) most were just passing time.
One of my high school friends had his heart set on being a San Diego police officer. He was told at the time the best odds were to work in the county jail for a while. He did, for a year or two, and eventually was accepted to the police academy.
Quote: gambler1. Did you every had any problems with the guards or staff with regards to gambling? Any heat from up above? Or did they get a cut in the profits to look away?
no the guards didnt care and no they didnt get a cut.
Quote: gambler2. You mentioned you ran a sports book and a couple of table games. Did you come out ahead during your time in jail? How much did you have to pay your assistants?
i reached a point in time where i didnt have to spend any more money on store. plus me and my cellmate were eating like kings. he was indigent so i took care of him. any assistants id just throw an item to here and there.
Quote: gambler3. Did you ever have a problem with people not paying up?
yes. and not trying to be racist or anything but it was only with the kinfolk. one of them tried explaining it to me and its all a part of this "thug" mentality they follow. where they are always trying to get over on everyone else including their own people. its all part of their "hustle". other gangs preach respect and are required to follow certain codes of conduct. not them.
Quote: buzzpaff
Can I ask a honest question? Were you in a position to be objective, what is the over/under on you serving time again ??
not very likely to go back. i was in jail for a pretty lame reason. i violated a restraining order by sending emails to an ex-girlfriend.
Quote: AZDuffman
Then he said they had a child-molester locked on tier for his own safety. Said, "we fed him every 2-3 days like clockwork." When I said I'd be afraid of getting caught for it all he laughed at me.
if other inmates find out there is a child molester on their floor, he will get smashed in a heartbeat. same goes for snitches. and word does get around. when you get to prison, you are required to show your paperwork proving your not a chomo (child molester) or a snitch. if they find out you are or you refuse to show your documentation, you will get smashed if not get killed by a more hardcore inmate. so typically these people are put into PC (protective custody) locked up 23hrs/day. you dont hurt children and you dont talk to the police. those are the two biggest no-no's out there.
Quote: rudeboyoiif other inmates find out there is a child molester on their floor, he will get smashed in a heartbeat. same goes for snitches. and word does get around. when you get to prison, you are required to show your paperwork proving your not a chomo (child molester) or a snitch. if they find out you are or you refuse to show your documentation, you will get smashed if not get killed by a more hardcore inmate. so typically these people are put into PC (protective custody) locked up 23hrs/day. you dont hurt children and you dont talk to the police. those are the two biggest no-no's out there.
When you say "required to show paperwork" is this to other prisoners? By the way you have it written I am assuming someone high-up the inmate ladder checks you out. Just curious. I read "You are Going to Prison" and the guy said what you hear about the fate of molesters inside is one of the only things where myth meets reality.
I've only been "inside" on a few tours, even then it was a werid feeling.
Quote: AZDuffmanWhen you say "required to show paperwork" is this to other prisoners? By the way you have it written I am assuming someone high-up the inmate ladder checks you out. Just curious. I read "You are Going to Prison" and the guy said what you hear about the fate of molesters inside is one of the only things where myth meets reality.
I've only been "inside" on a few tours, even then it was a werid feeling.
yes you are correct in your assumption. you are required to show it to other prisoners. only to your own people though.
Quote: rudeboyoiyes you are correct in your assumption. you are required to show it to other prisoners. only to your own people though.
What kind of document proves this?
Quote: rudeboyoi
yes. and not trying to be racist or anything but it was only with the kinfolk. one of them tried explaining it to me and its all a part of this "thug" mentality they follow. where they are always trying to get over on everyone else including their own people. its all part of their "hustle". other gangs preach respect and are required to follow certain codes of conduct. not them.
Not them? Not who, specifically. I don't know what you mean by 'kinfolk'. Do you mean a member of your race or gang or something?
Quote: WizardWhat kind of document proves this?
court papers and police report. what u were charged and convicted of. if youre a child molester the charge or conviction itself will let u know. if u provided testimony incrimating someone else it will be in there. so they know youre a snitch. this happens a lot when you have codefendants in a case. one might snitch on the others.
Quote: rudeboyoikinfolk means the blacks.
Thats what I thought. Yes, the always 'getting over on someone else' mentality gets very tiring after awhile. I owned a cab company in the 80's and had problems with certain drivers constantly trying rip to me off. It was a game to them, like everybody on earth, right down to their own family members, are all targets to be stolen from and 'played'. I often asked black women I'd get in my cab why so many black guys went for white women and they always always, everyone of them, had the same answer. Because white women are gullible and are easily 'played'. They all said it and I suspect its the truth.
Quote: EvenBobNot them? Not who, specifically. I don't know what you mean by 'kinfolk'.
Might help, if you read the article first.
Quote: rudeboyoicourt papers and police report. what u were charged and convicted of. if youre a child molester the charge or conviction itself will let u know. if u provided testimony incrimating someone else it will be in there. so they know youre a snitch. this happens a lot when you have codefendants in a case. one might snitch on the others.
You get to carry that with you when you go inside? I did figure as much about your own people being the only ones you have to show them to, each group taking care of their own business.
Quote: AZDuffmanYou get to carry that with you when you go inside? I did figure as much about your own people being the only ones you have to show them to, each group taking care of their own business.
its the ONLY thing you get to carry with you.
Quote: rudeboyoiits the ONLY thing you get to carry with you.
Interesting. Anyways, I second the thanks for the interesting article and being open about what goes on inside.
I missed this the first time thru. Very interesting. When I had the bar, there were lots of Mexican Americans who came in. The two classes of people they didn't get along with were blacks and Mexicans from Mexico. I never understood the Mexico thing, they all had close relatives there, for crying out loud. A lot of the Mexican Americans could speak Spanish well enough, but would always pretend they didn't if a Mexican came in. I thought they were all supposed to be 'La Raza'. I guess not. Even in jail..
Quote: rudeboyoiyes you are correct in your assumption. you are required to show it to other prisoners. only to your own people though.
Quote: WizardWhat kind of document proves this?
You missed WoO's question. I have a question as well, what makes the distinction between "being in jail" and "being in prison"? Thanks for the interesting article.
Quote: odiousgambitYou missed WoO's question. I have a question as well, what makes the distinction between "being in jail" and "being in prison"?
Not sure what rudeboyoi has to say on the matter, but here is how I learned it.
In most places "jail" means "county jail" and is where one goes for either a less than a year stint or awaiting trial.
"Prison" is a state or federal facility where you serve for over a year for a felony crime or better.
As such, "prisons" tend to be larger, more secure, and set off behind razor-wire in the country. County jails, OTOH, are close to the courthouse and sometimes right on the street. I walk by a county jail almost daily.
Yeah, I had a totally different image of the correction system. While I know the stories, and talks that prisons are just college for criminals, my view of jail life was completely different. Of course, now that I think of it, it makes perfect sense that the correction officers might be lazy and let just about anything happen. As long as things were relatively peaceful with relatively good behavior, why should they bother?
But I gotta ask:
When a first timer gets to jail, where does he learn all the stuff you seem to need to know? For instance, I never knew about the commissary, or that outsiders need to fund it for you.
Didn't you create enemies with the stores running 2:3 when you opened yours at 3:4?
How do you deal with closing shop and recovering debts during your last days before release? Or do you just forget about it?
Any problems with gambling cheaters, and/or counterfeit chips?
If there is a rule about no dice, why isn't there a rule about no cards?
Quote: DJTeddyBearWhen a first timer gets to jail, where does he learn all the stuff you seem to need to know? For instance, I never knew about the commissary, or that outsiders need to fund it for you.
If you Google the phrase "inmate handbook" you can find dozens of examples of the manual that they give you. No, I've never actually seen or held a physical specimen.
When a first timer gets to jail, where does he learn all the stuff you seem to need to know? For instance, I never knew about the commissary, or that outsiders need to fund it for you.
Then can I safely assume you have never recieved a phone call from jail and had to decide whether on not to pay the $14.95 for 20 minutes ?
PS: I'm thinking very easily these names for the various prison clans might change per region.
Quote: DJTeddyBearWhen a first timer gets to jail, where does he learn all the stuff you seem to need to know? For instance, I never knew about the commissary, or that outsiders need to fund it for you.
just ask other inmates any questions you may have and they'll let you know how everything works.
Quote: DJTeddyBearDidn't you create enemies with the stores running 2:3 when you opened yours at 3:4?
i was told in prison you would never be allowed to run 3:4s. in jail everything is pretty much up for grabs though. also in prison, when youre running a store, any profit you make 50% you keep and 50% goes to the head of your people. he keeps 50% of that 50% for himself then dishes out the other half to others usually to people in the hole.
Quote: DJTeddyBearHow do you deal with closing shop and recovering debts during your last days before release? Or do you just forget about it?
you just pass your store on to someone else to continue running. if youre going to prison, you cant take any of it with you. if youre going home, you can take your store with you but typically no one does that. the people in jail need it much more than you do.
Quote: DJTeddyBearAny problems with gambling cheaters, and/or counterfeit chips?
yes so be vigilant. only let your own people stand behind you. if youre playing dominoes, always know how many tiles should be in your opponents hand. people will try to slide unwanted dominoes back into the graveyard if youre not looking. or dropping one when they pick up another. also know what dominoes should or shouldnt be in your opponents hand. its called a "bogus" and you win automatically if a player could have played a piece but drew instead.
as for counterfeit chips, mark them in your own special way that is difficult to duplicate. keep a close eye on anyone using your chips. always do counts before and after to make sure all the chips that should be there are there.
Quote: DJTeddyBearIf there is a rule about no dice, why isn't there a rule about no cards?
i guess they assume the only reason people use dice is to gamble but with cards you dont need to be gambling.
Yeah, that's a correct assumption.Quote: buzzpaffThen can I safely assume you have never recieved a phone call from jail and had to decide whether on not to pay the $14.95 for 20 minutes ?
I'm not trying to brag that I'm a do-gooder or something, but, no, I've never had that kind of relationship with anyone who has been behind bars. This discussion is totally picquing my interest.
For example, one of the guys I work with is a fairly nice guy, but you can tell he probably has gotten into trouble in the past, and will probably get into more trouble in his future. Plus he has a teardrop tattoo. I know what the teardrop means, and although I have no balls to ask, I'd be very curious to ask him about it.
The whole idea of a purchasing items at commissary in prison sounds very much like the snack shack at summer camp. Upon first reading about it, I immediatly thought of the ridiculously small 'salary' prisoners get for working the prison laundry, etc. When I first heard of that, I wondered why a prisoner gets paid at all, and what he does with the money. This commissary idea made me think that's where they can spend it. If it hadn't been mentioned, it never would have occurred to me that family and friends would fund their account.
The idea of keeping the court orders is new to me too. Other than to show them to other inmates, what possible reason is there to carry them? I mean, to me the officer transporting you from court to jail carries the paperwork. When you get to jail, he would hand them to the guards, etc. I'd assume they get filed away. Why trust the inmate to carry them?
On the subject of trust, if you're busy running this private store, how do you keep the inventory safe?
As I've mentioned in many poker threads, a novice should join a poker league, because there, questions will be answered honestly. You can never trust any part of a discussion at a casino poker table.Quote: rudeboyoijust ask other inmates any questions you may have and they'll let you know how everything works.
Therefore, your response kinda surprises me.
50% goes upstream? Kinda like Amway?Quote: rudeboyoiwhen youre running a store, any profit you make 50% you keep and 50% goes to the head of your people.
he keeps 50% of that 50% for himself then dishes out the other half to others usually to people in the hole.
But part goes to people in the hole? Surprising. Not merely that there is compassion among the prisoners, but that the guards would allow it.
Makes sense.Quote: rudeboyoiyou just pass your store on to someone else to continue running.
I can only imagine what "back rooming" at a prison casino could be like. But, then again, with all the surprises that this thread has presented me, maybe I can't imagine.Quote: rudeboyoiyes so be vigilant. only let your own people stand behind you.
But they don't stop you from gambling, or manufacturing dice or chips? Can I assume that there are no Monopoly sets in prison? Beauracracy at it's craziest.Quote: rudeboyoii guess they assume the only reason people use dice is to gamble but with cards you dont need to be gambling.
Quote: rudeboyoi
i guess they assume the only reason people use dice is to gamble but with cards you dont need to be gambling.
Except for the backgammon boards that they supply (without dice I presume)?
I found your article extremely fascinating. But one thing confused me: When playing on the wood, would you just put the actual items up (all valued at $0.75?) to wager with? And they would pay you with random items? I.e. I wager a tube of toothpaste and a packet of beef jerky, and i win, you pay me cornnuts and a plastic comb?? And even when playing shop to shop it is not clear, did the person that owed you ask what you wanted them to order for you?
Thanks!
Quote: DrEntropyExcept for the backgammon boards that they supply (without dice I presume)?
I found your article extremely fascinating. But one thing confused me: When playing on the wood, would you just put the actual items up (all valued at $0.75?) to wager with? And they would pay you with random items? I.e. I wager a tube of toothpaste and a packet of beef jerky, and i win, you pay me cornnuts and a plastic comb?? And even when playing shop to shop it is not clear, did the person that owed you ask what you wanted them to order for you?
Thanks!
yes you would put the actual items up when playing on the wood. and from store to store, whoever owed would get a list of what to order next store date. toothpaste and beef jerky were much more valuable than cornnuts and a plastic comb. i think it was $2.10 for toothpaste, $1.25 for beef jerky, 60cents for cornnuts and 50cents for a plastic comb. you can get combs for free from the guards though. but if you want to order them, theyre 50cents a piece.
Man, there are SO MANY of my beliefs about prison life that are getting shattered with this thread.Quote: rudeboyoi... you can get combs for free from the guards though. but if you want to order them, theyre 50cents a piece.
I would have assumed that plastic combs are contraband, since they can easily be fashioned into a shiv.
Quote: DJTeddyBearMan, there are SO MANY of my beliefs about prison life that are getting shattered with this thread.
One belief that was shattered, that he didn't touch on in the article, was on being given a job. I thought the inmates were expected to pitch in and kept busy doing something during the day, like working in the kitchen or laundry. He said that in jail they can't force you to work, and most chose not to. He remarked that sometimes they made deals to reduce your sentence in return for working but is was uncommon to see such deals, I'm not sure whether from a shortage in supply or demand.
I'm not sure about prison, but I don't think you're required to work there either.
I.E. Are you gonna tell us that you don't have to be fearful about dropping the soap in the shower?
Quote: WizardOne belief that was shattered, that he didn't touch on in the article, was on being given a job. I thought the inmates were expected to pitch in and kept busy doing something during the day, like working in the kitchen or laundry. He said that in jail they can't force you to work, and most chose not to. He remarked that sometimes they made deals to reduce your sentence in return for working but is was uncommon to see such deals, I'm not sure whether from a shortage in supply or demand.
I'm not sure about prison, but I don't think you're required to work there either.
i think u misunderstood me. most choose to do work. i think if u work, its a 1/6th less time you have to do. plus it keeps you busy.
Quote: rudeboyoii think u misunderstood me. most choose to do work. i think if u work, its a 1/6th less time you have to do. plus it keeps you busy.
I did. Thanks for the correction. I assume you chose not to work, being kept so busy with your parlay cards and store?
Quote: DJTeddyBear....Next are you gonna tell us that one of the biggest myths is just that, a myth?
I.E. Are you gonna tell us that you don't have to be fearful about dropping the soap in the shower?
im not sure how it works in prison but in jail most people shower alone. it is acceptable to shower with someone of your own race though. in regards to the myth, its almost certainly just a myth. i could see someone might make a joke uh-oh you dropped the soap, better be careful, and laugh since everyones heard of the myth but nothings gonna happen to you.
Quote: DJTeddyBear....Next are you gonna tell us that one of the biggest myths is just that, a myth?
I.E. Are you gonna tell us that you don't have to be fearful about dropping the soap in the shower?
I was wondering about the difference in short term jail and long term prison life. But I'm going by the idea that some people are just in for short lockups and that would be a slightly different experience than serving years and dealing with people who see little chance of getting outside again.
Quote: WizardI did. Thanks for the correction. I assume you chose not to work, being kept so busy with your parlay cards and store?
only sentenced inmates are eligible to work. and only inmates that are sentenced to jail time. i was in jail fighting my case. it took me 6.5 months to get convicted and i got sentenced to 9 months in prison. but all that backtime u do in jail while youre fighting your case counts towards your sentence. on a sentence of 9 months, you typically only have to do 7 months and 11 days. by the time i got to the prison hub, they kicked me out almost immediately so i was only technically in prison for 5days.
Quote: rudeboyoi... so i was only technically in prison for 5days.
That is similar to what happened to Casey Anthony, sentenced to about a week more than time served. A former roommate told a story of how he was arrested for drunk driving as well as whatever moving violation he broke to get pulled over. After a few days in jail his case was finally heard. He beat the drunk driving rap but was sentenced to time served for the moving violation. I don't recall what it was, but three days in jail sounded like a stiff punishment at the time for whatever it was, probably speeding.
I guess my question is whether it is common to be sentenced to time already served, or a little over? To be sentenced with less might make the court system look bad.
Quote: WizardThat is similar to what happened to Casey Anthony, sentenced to about a week more than time served. A former roommate told a story of how he was arrested for drunk driving as well as whatever moving violation he broke to get pulled over. After a few days in jail his case was finally heard. He beat the drunk driving rap but was sentenced to time served for the moving violation. I don't recall what it was, but three days in jail sounded like a stiff punishment at the time for whatever it was, probably speeding.
I guess my question is whether it is common to be sentenced to time already served, or a little over? To be sentenced with less might make the court system look bad.
not sure. all i know is that if youre sentenced to less time than you already served, if you commit a crime in the future and are convicted, you can count the extra time you already did towards the new sentence.
Quote: WizardI guess my question is whether it is common to be sentenced to time already served, or a little over? To be sentenced with less might make the court system look bad.
Ah, this I know a little bit about. As I understand it, any time served in jail or prison can be credited against the actual sentence in the event of a conviction. As Rudeboyoi (how do your pronounce that, BTW?) points out this may include a future crime if you served more time than what you were sentenced for.
In the Casey Anthony case it's a coincidence she was convicted only of minor felonies, which carried sentences that almost matched the time she'd already served. Had she been convicted of, say, murder in the second degree and sentenced to, say, 25 years to life, then the time she'd already served would surely be credited against her sentence.
Quote: NareedAh, this I know a little bit about. As I understand it, any time served in jail or prison can be credited against the actual sentence in the event of a conviction. As Rudeboyoi (how do your pronounce that, BTW?) points out this may include a future crime if you served more time than what you were sentenced for.
In the Casey Anthony case it's a coincidence she was convicted only of minor felonies, which carried sentences that almost matched the time she'd already served. Had she been convicted of, say, murder in the second degree and sentenced to, say, 25 years to life, then the time she'd already served would surely be credited against her sentence.
Rude Boy Oi (sounds like Oy)
also if you have multiple charges, you can have them run concurrent or have them stacked. lets say you get charged with 5 yrs each on two different charges. if they run concurrent, you only have to do 5yrs. if theyre stacked, you have to do 10 yrs.
Quote: rudeboyoiRude Boy Oi (sounds like Oy)
Thank you. I thought maybe it was a typo.
Quote:also if you have multiple charges, you can have them run concurrent or have them stacked. lets say you get charged with 5 yrs each on two different charges. if they run concurrent, you only have to do 5yrs. if theyre stacked, you have to do 10 yrs.
I've heard of that, too. That's why sometimes you hear about someone convicted to consecutive life sentences, which I assume means he's never coming out of prison breathing.
Quote: DJTeddyBearThe idea of keeping the court orders is new to me too. Other than to show them to other inmates, what possible reason is there to carry them? I mean, to me the officer transporting you from court to jail carries the paperwork. When you get to jail, he would hand them to the guards, etc. I'd assume they get filed away. Why trust the inmate to carry them?
The inmates need copies of their court papers so that they can study them for things to challenge in their current case if they have one, or a future case if they don't, and to take to the law library to refer to while writing their pro se appeals. Writing appeals is a very popular pastime among prison inmates. Pro se appeals from inmates are regarded with somewhat less gravity than appeals from the general public by the judges that review them, as I understand it.
I'm pretty sure that in the US, you're always guaranteed copies of any court documents involving you, but if you're represented by counsel, your lawyer ordinarily receives them as your representative.
Quote: gofaster87Id rather have Irish Spring than documents. At least Ill smell good.
If you should go to Ireland, be careful you don't slip on a slice of Irish Spring. In all their commercials of this era some guy was slicing off chucks of soap with his pocket knife.
