Slot Buster, the Ron Harris Story
November 30th, 2009 at 3:57:44 AM
permalink
This was one of the best stories to come out of the History Channel Breaking Vegas series. Having to draw from seeing it once years ago, this is what I remember, and I apologize in advance for any details I don't have exactly right [IMDB dot com has it with no one providing a synopsis]. Harris worked for the Nevada Gaming Commission and was charged with defeating attempts to cheat slot machines, and, I think, also verify that machines were honest when there was ever a claim one was crooked. He seemed to be on the path of a guy happily keeping that job for 40 years or something.
But he got involved in a case where someone had a machine that had been tinkered with, in a bar I believe, and the patrons finally complained that the lack of payoffs was suspicious. It got nasty, a key witness was murdered, and the perpetrators got off. Harris was deeply affected by all this and seemingly some sort of cynical view of life took over. Like a fire inspector who becomes too fascinated with arson and starts setting fires himself, sure enough Harris started tinkering with slot machines and carrying of illicit winnings.
Harris had learned enough to realize that computers do not generate random events. As an aside, way back when, before personal computers were invented, we students were informed that for a computer program we were using, the random numbers were simply a list of 10,000 numbers the machine had stored and would use the same numbers over and over again. It was said that a computer was excellent at doing exactly what it was told to do, but could not do anythng else, thus no random number generation.
Anyway Harris has figured this out about Keno. Of course, things were very sophisticated now, so there was every appearance that the same numbers were not used over and over again, but he knew that some kind of algorithm was being used to give the appearance of true randomness; all he had to do was figure it out.
And he did. Shooting to Atlantic City, he posted a confederate to actually play the game, while he and a laptop in the hotel room started figuring out what numbers were going to come up next. Disaster struck when he soon had done his job too well: by radio he gave his partner a list of numbers to play on one card and *every* number hit! The card was worth a million dollars or so, and, for just what they didnt want, this caused too much scrutiny, scrutiny they had not planned for. Busted! He wound up in jail for this, even though to me it seems he had a certain case that he was not actually breaking the law doing this [although you can see why the casino would put a stop to it]
Anyway, I found it quite fascinating, including pondering the fire inspector turned arsonist phenomenon. I might post the missing synopsis, so please inform me if the above has errors.
The Keno people Harris almost burned fixed it so this can't happen again. I guess that means they now use something that can monitor random events in nature, and tie that into things. I've heard that peaks in radio static can be used. I think The Wizard knows something about this, I'd be glad to hear his or anybody's comments.
But he got involved in a case where someone had a machine that had been tinkered with, in a bar I believe, and the patrons finally complained that the lack of payoffs was suspicious. It got nasty, a key witness was murdered, and the perpetrators got off. Harris was deeply affected by all this and seemingly some sort of cynical view of life took over. Like a fire inspector who becomes too fascinated with arson and starts setting fires himself, sure enough Harris started tinkering with slot machines and carrying of illicit winnings.
Harris had learned enough to realize that computers do not generate random events. As an aside, way back when, before personal computers were invented, we students were informed that for a computer program we were using, the random numbers were simply a list of 10,000 numbers the machine had stored and would use the same numbers over and over again. It was said that a computer was excellent at doing exactly what it was told to do, but could not do anythng else, thus no random number generation.
Anyway Harris has figured this out about Keno. Of course, things were very sophisticated now, so there was every appearance that the same numbers were not used over and over again, but he knew that some kind of algorithm was being used to give the appearance of true randomness; all he had to do was figure it out.
And he did. Shooting to Atlantic City, he posted a confederate to actually play the game, while he and a laptop in the hotel room started figuring out what numbers were going to come up next. Disaster struck when he soon had done his job too well: by radio he gave his partner a list of numbers to play on one card and *every* number hit! The card was worth a million dollars or so, and, for just what they didnt want, this caused too much scrutiny, scrutiny they had not planned for. Busted! He wound up in jail for this, even though to me it seems he had a certain case that he was not actually breaking the law doing this [although you can see why the casino would put a stop to it]
Anyway, I found it quite fascinating, including pondering the fire inspector turned arsonist phenomenon. I might post the missing synopsis, so please inform me if the above has errors.
The Keno people Harris almost burned fixed it so this can't happen again. I guess that means they now use something that can monitor random events in nature, and tie that into things. I've heard that peaks in radio static can be used. I think The Wizard knows something about this, I'd be glad to hear his or anybody's comments.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
November 30th, 2009 at 5:50:04 AM
permalink
I remember seeing that show too.
As I recall, the 'red flags' were several. The actual win was NOT a red flag.
The problems were:
The accomplice claimed to have never played Keno before, but hadn't asked the staff any questions prior to gambling.
The accomplice was acting suspicious when he went to claim his prize.
The accomplice hotel room was registered to an alias. When there was a delay, he told them he'd be in his room, and supplied his real name.
At some point, the accomplice named the partner - Ron Harris. Someone in security recognized the name and got suspisious. That was the biggest red flag.
They had no exit strategy. When asked how he wants the win, the accomplice said 'Cash'. Personally, I think that was a huge mistake. If it was me, I would have said "Give me a couple grand in cash (or chips), Put the rest in a casino credit account. I'll get a check for whatever's left before I go home."
As I recall, the 'red flags' were several. The actual win was NOT a red flag.
The problems were:
The accomplice claimed to have never played Keno before, but hadn't asked the staff any questions prior to gambling.
The accomplice was acting suspicious when he went to claim his prize.
The accomplice hotel room was registered to an alias. When there was a delay, he told them he'd be in his room, and supplied his real name.
At some point, the accomplice named the partner - Ron Harris. Someone in security recognized the name and got suspisious. That was the biggest red flag.
They had no exit strategy. When asked how he wants the win, the accomplice said 'Cash'. Personally, I think that was a huge mistake. If it was me, I would have said "Give me a couple grand in cash (or chips), Put the rest in a casino credit account. I'll get a check for whatever's left before I go home."
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
November 30th, 2009 at 6:22:58 AM
permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBearAs I recall, the 'red flags' were several....
Yes, I think you are recalling correctly. One thing that would have saved them for sure was anticipating the possibility that too many numbers would hit on the same card, although you are correct that likely they could have gotten away with even that, "if" .
In such an event, the strategy should have been to tear up that card, IMO, to avoid what has to be automatic scrutiny.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
November 30th, 2009 at 7:40:02 AM
permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBearI remember seeing that show too.
As I recall, the 'red flags' were several. The actual win was NOT a red flag.
I saw that ep, too.
My recolelction is that the win was a red flag. In fact, that's one reason I decided never to play Keno. As I recall the narration said something to the effect that no one had ever hit so many numbers before, not just in that casino but in any casino.
But the original poster poses a good question: was it cheating?
I think not. Cheating involves acting against the rules, manipulating the result, or manipulating the bet after the result is known (there was an ep for that which I didn't finish watching). Anticipating the result is no different than card counting or dice-setting (if it's real), unless it's against the rules. Of course, if the casino does not allow the use of computers or other electronic devices in any game, than it's cheating.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
November 30th, 2009 at 8:11:30 AM
permalink
I think Nevada law prohibits the use of a mechanical device to alter the odds. Sounds like cheating to me. Clever, but still illegal.
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
November 30th, 2009 at 9:50:00 AM
permalink
Quote: dwheatleyI think Nevada law prohibits the use of a mechanical device to alter the odds. Sounds like cheating to me. Clever, but still illegal.
But he didn't alter the odds. The odds of winning remain the same, whether you can determine the result in advance or not. It's like figuring out a biased wheel. If someone from the casino had given him the numbers, or the program to generate the numbers, then that would be fraud and very illegal.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
November 30th, 2009 at 10:16:11 AM
permalink
Do you suppose he could have used inside information from his day job to figure out the algorithm? I agree than RNG are very sophisticated these days. Perhaps he used insdie information to determine a few specifics and then figured out the rest on his own.
If this were the case, then it would certainly be cheating.
Also, I'm guessing that winning is ALWAYS a red flag in a casino ;)
If this were the case, then it would certainly be cheating.
Also, I'm guessing that winning is ALWAYS a red flag in a casino ;)
I should have stopped an hour ago...
November 30th, 2009 at 11:56:26 AM
permalink
Some guy did this exact same thing at Casino Montreal and got away with it. Google it for the story.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
November 30th, 2009 at 12:34:21 PM
permalink
Nevada state law is pretty clear about this one. Chapter 465.075 says:
Use of device for calculating probabilities. It is unlawful for any person at a licensed gaming establishment to use, or possess with the intent to use, any device to assist:
1. In projecting the outcome of the game;
...
Use of device for calculating probabilities. It is unlawful for any person at a licensed gaming establishment to use, or possess with the intent to use, any device to assist:
1. In projecting the outcome of the game;
...
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
November 30th, 2009 at 3:26:00 PM
permalink
Quote: teddysSome guy did this exact same thing at Casino Montreal and got away with it. Google it for the story.
If I recall correctly he didn't use a device, just the knowledge that the games were displaying a consistent pattern of numbers caused by the lack of a random seed value for the RNG.
November 30th, 2009 at 4:25:33 PM
permalink
I could be wrong, but I thought he worked in the electronics lab for the Nevada Gaming Control Board, which is how he know how the random numbers were drawn. Ron Harris was also mixed up in a scheme to reprogram slot machines to hit the jackpot after a certain sequence of coins were bet. I might be confusing the two stories. Assuming he had inside knowledge of the RNG, I'd call it cheating. If he figured it out himself, I'd applaud that part of the accomplishment, but not the terrible execution.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
November 30th, 2009 at 6:39:58 PM
permalink
Quote: WizardI could be wrong, but I thought he worked in the electronics lab for the Nevada Gaming Control Board, which is how he know how the random numbers were drawn. Ron Harris was also mixed up in a scheme to reprogram slot machines to hit the jackpot after a certain sequence of coins were bet. I might be confusing the two stories. Assuming he had inside knowledge of the RNG, I'd call it cheating. If he figured it out himself, I'd applaud that part of the accomplishment, but not the terrible execution.
Both schemes came out in the end, but I believe the program claimed it took the Keno fiasco to get it all exposed.
Mr. Shackleford, do you know if some Keno programs have now incorporated an ability to work in true randomness, as in using peaks in radio static, or do they still rely on sophisticated RNG? If so theoretically still vulnerable to the same scam?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
November 30th, 2009 at 6:44:58 PM
permalink
Quote: marksolbergQuote: teddys... at Casino Montreal ...the games were displaying a consistent pattern of numbers ...
if so that outfit really deserved to take a big hit!the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
November 30th, 2009 at 7:06:55 PM
permalink
Quote: dwheatleyI think Nevada law prohibits the use of a mechanical device to alter the odds. Sounds like cheating to me. Clever, but still illegal.
They were in New Jersey when the Keno win took place, although I would guess New Jersey has a similar prohibition.
A decent summary is here.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:07:24 PM
permalink
The keno game you refer to in Canada, the casino was not open 24 hrs a day. The keno was electronic (not bingo balls in a cage). They would shut the system down at night and reboot it in the morning. A regular customer noticed the same numbers were drawn each morning on the 1st game. He was getting paid every morning, they asked for his co-operation and there would be no prosecution and he could keep what he had won. Long story short, they stopped shutting the game down at night.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:49:54 PM
permalink
Quote: odiousgambit
Mr. Shackleford, do you know if some Keno programs have now incorporated an ability to work in true randomness, as in using peaks in radio static, or do they still rely on sophisticated RNG? If so theoretically still vulnerable to the same scam?
I'm not sure, but I tend to think they don't seed the RNG with radio static/white noise. This is getting outside my area, but I think that modern RNGs are good enough to not need that. I've heard the good RNG's have a cycle that would take orders of magnitude greater than the history of the universe to repeat.
However, I have heard of occasions where players cracked the RNG pattern at Internet casinos.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
February 27th, 2011 at 7:49:29 PM
permalink
Quote: marksolbergIf I recall correctly he didn't use a device, just the knowledge that the games were displaying a consistent pattern of numbers caused by the lack of a random seed value for the RNG.
Hi everybody, as you can see I'm new here to this board.
I have this DVD, mine is actually sign by Ron (don't know if pix are allowed here). Ron grew up in LV since the late 50's, me since 1960 (pop. was 60,000 then).
I don't think this info is on the documentary but IIRC, Ron figured out the 'random numbering system' by creating his own numbering program. That is what he used in the hotel room communicating to 'John' (I think that's the fake name the doc uses) through a very small ear piece, way smaller then what is shown. 'John' could only hear Ron, he could not relay back.
If you or I had done it they would of had to pay but because Ron was a GBA it was illegal for him, even if it was in a different state, at least at that time.
Gaffing the machines was illegal. There was also that thing with American Coin when Larry Volk was shot and killed, that might have snapped Ron more.
Ms Sly
p.s. another trivial about the documentary is that 'John' in the doc is smoking a big cigar, that is something the actor wanted to add, 'John' so dislikes cigarette & cigar smoke.
February 27th, 2011 at 8:00:36 PM
permalink
Quote: EnvyBonusThey were in New Jersey when the Keno win took place, although I would guess New Jersey has a similar prohibition.
A decent summary is here.
Yes, that is a good summary. I giggled at the end:
"Obviously, Harris was brilliant with computers but evidently he wasn't too smart with people. Just imagine how much money he would still be making if his friend had only been carrying some ID with him in Atlantic City! "
The problem was he had 2 IDs his NV & his Cayman Islands. He check in with one and tried to collect the money with the other.
Ms Sly
February 28th, 2011 at 12:51:37 AM
permalink
Quote: SLYThe problem was he had 2 IDs. He checked in with one and tried to collect the money with the other.
Yeah, habits have to be watched carefully. Someone asks you your name or you reach for your usual wallet, and its really all over right then and there.
I think the electronic Keno player who noticed the Start Up sequence was not random, did not do anything illegal. He just noticed how stupid the casino was in turning off the machine at night.
I think the going to NJ while being a NV gaming agent was a tip off and once that was discovered: NJ knew something was up. Otherwise all that really happened was someone discovered that RNG did not not truly mean Random it simply meant "random enough under most circumstances".
February 28th, 2011 at 8:42:22 AM
permalink
Quote: WizardI'm not sure, but I tend to think they don't seed the RNG with radio static/white noise. This is getting outside my area, but I think that modern RNGs are good enough to not need that. I've heard the good RNG's have a cycle that would take orders of magnitude greater than the history of the universe to repeat.
However, I have heard of occasions where players cracked the RNG pattern at Internet casinos.
You are right, in that modern RNG's do not need 'natural random' sources, but some do still use it. The Mersenne Twister (which both myself and the Wizard use) is a good example of a RNG that does not require natural input, it is also widely accepted to be *currently* uncrackable.
Given that it is publicly available, I would assume that bespoke RNG's are even better.
I think an attempt to crack such a RNG would require resources greater than the reward before the RNG would be changed.
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/10042-woes-black-sheep-game-ii/#post151727
February 28th, 2011 at 10:19:06 AM
permalink
Quote: WizardofEnglandYou are right, in that modern RNG's do not need 'natural random' sources, but some do still use it. The Mersenne Twister (which both myself and the Wizard use) is a good example of a RNG that does not require natural input, it is also widely accepted to be *currently* uncrackable.
Given that it is publicly available, I would assume that bespoke RNG's are even better.
That's not necessarily a good assumption. The MT has been improved several times over the years precisely because it was publicly available.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
February 28th, 2011 at 10:25:39 AM
permalink
Quote: EnvyBonusA decent summary is here.
This version from American Casino Guide differs from the tv episode. The TV show was largely sympathetic, indicating Harris cracked the RNG on his own. But the ACG story says he flat out stole it and knew that the keno game was thus exploitable.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
February 28th, 2011 at 11:21:25 AM
permalink
Which may even be the truth but most TV shows are produced in order to garner ratings and often an attention to technical details and strict accuracy gives way to a sense of what will appeal to the intended audience.Quote: odiousgambitThe TV show was largely sympathetic, indicating Harris cracked the RNG on his own.
Seeding with random radio frequency static ??? I hope not. How would that be random?
We all admire the jewel thief who tunnels inot a store or bank vault after months of hard work, but we all wonder how someone so clever and dedicated can't prosper in a more honest fashion.
February 28th, 2011 at 11:26:11 AM
permalink
Quote: MathExtremistThat's not necessarily a good assumption. The MT has been improved several times over the years precisely because it was publicly available.
I will accept that you could be right, but imagine its hard to measure in any case.
Would you agree that it is currently accepted as uncrackable (if used properly)?
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/10042-woes-black-sheep-game-ii/#post151727
February 28th, 2011 at 11:52:40 AM
permalink
Quote: FleaStiffSeeding with random radio frequency static ??? I hope not. How would that be random?
Radio white noise can add another element of entropy into the RNG, which if properly combined COULD help. Or say you sample it every second and if condition X exists in the sampling, draw a number and through it away.
However, if I was to think about attacking RNG or MT, it would be by trying to find someway of cracking the seeding of the generator, as once I had that, I would know where on the path I was to start with.
(I'm sure it's still not that easy as I'm sure they don't take a linear path from the seed to every result anyways (spin 1 -> spin 2 are not two consecutive numbers out of a MT for instance)).
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
February 28th, 2011 at 12:36:28 PM
permalink
>How would that be random?
Something I read suggested that RNGs are more sophisticated than to just be a pre-set list of random numbers as in the early days of computers. But let's say it was that simple, if the list is long enough you could confound about anybody trying to find a pattern if you could just seed the starting point on that list at random. Static has peaks in volume, you could use that unpredictable point to seed by going by a clock. Seems also varying amplitude of white noise could be made to generate a set of numbers.
Something I read suggested that RNGs are more sophisticated than to just be a pre-set list of random numbers as in the early days of computers. But let's say it was that simple, if the list is long enough you could confound about anybody trying to find a pattern if you could just seed the starting point on that list at random. Static has peaks in volume, you could use that unpredictable point to seed by going by a clock. Seems also varying amplitude of white noise could be made to generate a set of numbers.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
February 28th, 2011 at 2:14:34 PM
permalink
Quote: WizardofEnglandYou are right, in that modern RNG's do not need 'natural random' sources, but some do still use it. The Mersenne Twister (which both myself and the Wizard use) is a good example of a RNG that does not require natural input, it is also widely accepted to be *currently* uncrackable.
Modern RNGs including Mersenne Twister still use a seed and will produce the same output every time they are started with the same seed. This is where the natural random sources are needed. Well designed software that uses an RNG for security or gambling purposes will mix in entropy from natural phenomena or a built in hardware RNG that exists on some chips (based on measurements of thermal noise.) In the early days of Internet gambling I believe there were some instances of people predicting the cards because they were able to determine the seed of the RNG. This is the same type of attack described in the TV show.
Some simplistic programs will use a seed like the currrent time to get a different sequence of "random" numbers each time they run. This is good enough for a game when you just want it to appear random to the user. When money is on the line you need to use something less predicatable. Typically many sources are used and mixed together, for example the radio static mentioned already, the timing of keystrokes typed by users, mouse positions, timing of requests to a server, etc.
March 1st, 2011 at 5:53:15 PM
permalink
Ron currently runs the LVA boards. It would be cool if he would tell his side of the story there, but to my knowledge he's never spoken of it on that site.
March 1st, 2011 at 7:59:25 PM
permalink
Quote: RussHaleyRon currently runs the LVA boards. It would be cool if he would tell his side of the story there, but to my knowledge he's never spoken of it on that site.
He does?
March 1st, 2011 at 11:07:56 PM
permalink
Quote: SLY
Gaffing the machines was illegal. There was also that thing with American Coin when Larry Volk was shot and killed, that might have snapped Ron more.
Quote: RussHaleyRon currently runs the LVA boards. It would be cool if he would tell his side of the story there, but to my knowledge he's never spoken of it on that site.
I have a good friend in Vegas that knew Larry Volk. From what my friend told me and my readings about American Coin,
Ron Harris was involved in the investigation of cheating by American Coin and needed Mr Volk to testify in court.
The NGC and the State of Nevada had a perfect witness in Mr Volk, too bad they did nothing to protect him from the low-lifes that put a bullett in his head.
They do more to protect themselves, hey can't blame them. It is their game.
Ron Harris probably thought he was next.
Ron has nothing these days to worry about. He spent some time in jail as did others. I am sure he has said all he is going to say about the subject.
Book closed.
March 2nd, 2011 at 7:59:40 AM
permalink
Quote: guido111I have a good friend in Vegas that knew Larry Volk. From what my friend told me and my readings about American Coin,
Ron Harris was involved in the investigation of cheating by American Coin and needed Mr Volk to testify in court.
The NGC and the State of Nevada had a perfect witness in Mr Volk, too bad they did nothing to protect him from the low-lifes that put a bullett in his head.
I agree with the above.
It would be nice if there was a documentary on the Larry Volk/American Coin story. This one documentary kinda jumbles up a few different events together.
At first the documentary was called "Breaking Vegas - The Ron Harris Story", a decade later they did several more documentaries and changed the title to "Slot Buster".
Ms. Sly
