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redietz
redietz
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August 17th, 2021 at 2:55:34 PM permalink
So I got into this debate the other day regarding the definition of "cheapskate" and whether being a cheapskate is relative. For example, if somebody is a midlevel card counter and does it for a living, but rarely tips, is he more of a cheapskate than somebody who makes hundreds of thousands consistently from casinos and yet accepts free rooms and meals even if he doesn't actually need them? So the question got into whether a poor person can ever be considered a cheapskate, whether a working class person has to be a real putz to be considered a cheapskate, and whether a wealthy person can be considered, relatively speaking, to almost always be a cheapskate because the percent of income he tips or donates is, percentage-wise, meaningless to him.
"You can't breathe dead hippo waking, sleeping, and eating, and at the same time keep your precarious grip on existence."
unJon
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August 17th, 2021 at 3:15:19 PM permalink
I think it is definitely relative. A cheapskate, IMO, is someone that doesnít do something he or she could easily afford to do because that person is overweighting saving the cost.

Note I donít view a rich person accepting comps for fun is a cheapskate. Because he didnít avoid an activity he could afford. But if the rich person doesnít tip appropriately then he is a cheapskate.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
ChumpChange
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August 17th, 2021 at 4:45:27 PM permalink
When being cheap becomes an obsession?
The disorder affects about 1 in 100 adults, according to the International OCD Foundation. Frugality is a symptom of obsessive compulsive personality disorder (OCPD) when a person "adopts a miserly spending style toward both self and others," notes the American Psychiatric Association.- Sep 25, 2014

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Gandler
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August 17th, 2021 at 4:54:22 PM permalink
I am not sure cheapskate labels matters to an individual's wealth or income, at least not when it comes to tips.

It comes down to the the product/service (and standard tip rate), for example 20% standard for food/beverage, for a hundred dollar meal you should leave a twenty (20) dollar tip, it does not matter if you are a billionaire or a working class person, the tip should be based off of the service (and final price) and the decided appropriate percentage for the service (such as 20 for food/beverage), wealthy people have no obligation to tip more or less wealthy less, it does not matter if the tipped amount stings more or less for some.
Ace2
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August 17th, 2021 at 9:12:28 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

I am not sure cheapskate labels matters to an individual's wealth or income, at least not when it comes to tips.

It comes down to the the product/service (and standard tip rate), for example 20% standard for food/beverage, for a hundred dollar meal you should leave a twenty (20) dollar tip, it does not matter if you are a billionaire or a working class person, the tip should be based off of the service (and final price) and the decided appropriate percentage for the service (such as 20 for food/beverage), wealthy people have no obligation to tip more or less wealthy less, it does not matter if the tipped amount stings more or less for some.

Better yet, set the meal price at $120 instead of $100 and pay the servers a fair wage so they donít rely on tips. Like every other country in the world
Itís all about making that GTA
Keyser
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August 17th, 2021 at 10:11:13 PM permalink
You're describing minimalists.

Minimalists aka extreme tightwads are the most irritating off all people. Their obsession with money drives everyone around them absolutely insane.
redietz
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August 18th, 2021 at 7:35:10 AM permalink
What Keyser said.

I don't know what to do with the people who report that they make a killing year after year (or almost all years) in casinos, and then feel obligated to use every free room and every free meal during the years they win, even though they could well afford to not do so. It's almost as if they play a game where they have to extract every cent of value, down to the free tupperware. A couple of famous names come to mind that anyone on this site would be familiar with (ahem). One is Jean Scott, who seems to have become increasingly obsessed with the minutia of extracting every sliver of value from CET's comp system. Another would be Bob Dancer, who evidently has taken so many casino-comped cruises (a couple dozen) that he's more or less sick of them. So why take them? And what about people who claim they continually win massive amounts, but then claim they camp out in suites on the casinos' dime in virtual perpetuity? That's gotta be some bizarro kind of cheapskating. Suites are nice, but if you have that kind of money, your bedroom at home is undoubtedly nicer. So what's the thrill of squatting in a suite?
"You can't breathe dead hippo waking, sleeping, and eating, and at the same time keep your precarious grip on existence."
ChumpChange
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August 18th, 2021 at 8:58:07 AM permalink
The comped rooms are there and the ride home is over 100 miles. Do people pay taxes on their comped RFB? Is it only taxable above a $600 cumulative? If it costs $50 a night for your regular bedroom, are the taxes on the RFB gonna add-on as a second residence expense? Heck, unvalidated parking is an add-on.
billryan
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August 18th, 2021 at 9:05:25 AM permalink
I had a college friend who was born with a silver spoon, and who at the time had a very nice job on Wall Street. We are in AC staying at Caesars and our room included two passes to a special breakfast buffet from 6Am-9AM. We get down there about 850 and the security guard says we are too late, they don't admit anyone after 845. You'd have thought the guard had stolen my friends first born son. He argued, he cajoled, he threatened to sue, he insulted the mans heritage and his weight. He must have had thousands in his pockets, and unlimited credit cards in his wallet but being denied free continental breakfast set him off.
Ms. Scott seems to have changed an obsession into a compulsion.
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ChumpChange
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August 18th, 2021 at 9:14:40 AM permalink
The buffet scrambled eggs are irresistible.
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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August 18th, 2021 at 11:03:49 AM permalink
I turn down free offers all the time - on phone spam calls I receive. Also on internet spam that offers "free items" for completing a survey.

I never use coupons. Too much work.

I turn down offers of free dinners and free vacations when I am required to listen to a marketing pitch.

But, if a casino offers me a free room or a free restaurant meal, it will have to be a below-average room/restaurant for me to turn it down. I mean, why not?
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
tuttigym
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August 18th, 2021 at 11:21:44 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

The comped rooms are there and the ride home is over 100 miles. Do people pay taxes on their comped RFB? Is it only taxable above a $600 cumulative? If it costs $50 a night for your regular bedroom, are the taxes on the RFB gonna add-on as a second residence expense? Heck, unvalidated parking is an add-on.


For several years, I received comp air, hotel, meals, transportation, and golf from Biloxi venues. 1099's or their equivalent were never issued and therefore were not taxable. It was a monthly deal. The charter flights were always full. The casinos considered these comps to be the cost of doing business.

It is too bad that the majority of forum members are so tied to Vegas, AC, and other venues that will not spend it to get it.

tuttigym
Gandler
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August 18th, 2021 at 6:04:59 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

Better yet, set the meal price at $120 instead of $100 and pay the servers a fair wage so they donít rely on tips. Like every other country in the world



I agree.

However, (in American at any rate), tipping is expected at certain jobs (generally tip-based jobs where people are paid below minimum wage), (and yes I am well aware if a server does not make minimum wage after tips, the company does have to pay the difference up to minimum wage). If you don't tip at restaurants you are ensuring that people get paid just minimum wage (and by "you" I don't mean you specifically, but any one who does not tip).

Tipping is basically a cost saving measure (it shifts some of the labor cost directly to the consumer). Of course people who don't tip can take advantage of this (because they don't have to pay the increased cost a meal would otherwise be, and save money by not tipping).

The same argument applies to casino dealers.

I have never understood tipping slot attendants when they hand pay you, and I have never understood tipping cashiers (for most of my 21+ life I did not even realize this was a thing many people do), granted I rarely play slots and can count my hand pays on one hand (when I do get them its usually because if I do have slot play, or feel like playing slots, I just do one spin or a couple of spins on the highest demon I can which very occasional means a hand pay if anything decent hits). Honestly the fact that cashiers and slot attendants are tip-based positions is still baffling to me (I understand dealers and of course servers).

I guess my point is, there is a lot of tipping I don't understand (or agree with), but if its expected to tip, you are damaging that employees earnings by not tipping (even if its just a few dollars). I wish tipping would go away overnight, and people just were paid a base salary (and products were price adjusted if needed to compensate such), but while its expected the right thing to do is to tip.

To give a ground passenger parallel, I believe in tipping Ubers, but not Taxis. This is because Uber drivers use their own car and only get paid when they get rides (yes I know some Taxis are owner-operated, but its not the norm, at least not in many cities, and when it is, the fare is going right to them). Also, (at least in my home area), Taxis are about 2-2.5X the price of Uber (I have done exact same ride/route on both, generally to and from the airport to my house each way to compare for a set route, and yes Uber can sometimes be pricier at peak times, but even at its worse its still vastly cheaper than a Taxi, even at its worst its often at least 50% discount so to speak).
EvenBob
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August 18th, 2021 at 6:12:43 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

The buffet scrambled eggs are irresistible.



They are 99% of the time made with powdered eggs so the quality is very consistent. Nobody would make huge amounts of scrambled eggs in a restaurant using fresh eggs.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
TomG
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August 18th, 2021 at 6:42:49 PM permalink
In most of the examples listed, the biggest cheapskate is whomever in management decided to pay wages so far below market value that the worker would be dependent on tips.

Other than that, in general, I just don't care. I am certain that anyone who does look down on people being cheapskates for not tipping in these examples isn't tipping the people cleaning the casino floor, nor tipping service workers at 7-11 or Wal-Mart. So any derogatory opinions are hypocritical.

With rare exceptions, the only reason I would ever go to a ticket writer with the sports books is because I am limited on my account. Why should anyone tip for a service they don't want?

I am a little perplexed by the idea that taking comps for fun could make someone a cheapskate. There is no one who gets a comped drink and insists on paying menu price. Nor could I ever imagine it being a common event that someone accepts a comped drink because it is serious, and not as a fun part playing casino games.
unJon
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August 18th, 2021 at 8:41:37 PM permalink
Quote: redietz

What Keyser said.

I don't know what to do with the people who report that they make a killing year after year (or almost all years) in casinos, and then feel obligated to use every free room and every free meal during the years they win, even though they could well afford to not do so. It's almost as if they play a game where they have to extract every cent of value, down to the free tupperware. A couple of famous names come to mind that anyone on this site would be familiar with (ahem). One is Jean Scott, who seems to have become increasingly obsessed with the minutia of extracting every sliver of value from CET's comp system. Another would be Bob Dancer, who evidently has taken so many casino-comped cruises (a couple dozen) that he's more or less sick of them. So why take them? And what about people who claim they continually win massive amounts, but then claim they camp out in suites on the casinos' dime in virtual perpetuity? That's gotta be some bizarro kind of cheapskating. Suites are nice, but if you have that kind of money, your bedroom at home is undoubtedly nicer. So what's the thrill of squatting in a suite?



This doesnít compute. Screwing a person on a tip is cheap. Screwing a multibillion dollar corporation on comped rooms you could afford to pay full freight for is not cheap.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
Ace2
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August 18th, 2021 at 8:45:52 PM permalink
The other thing I dislike about tipping is it keeps growing. Back in the day, you basically only tipped at restaurants and 15% was a decent tip. Now thereís a tip jar everywhere and 20% seems to be a standard meal tip these days.

That said, I am a decent tipper here in the USA since I understand the system, I just donít necessarily agree with it.

IMO, tipping should always be optional, not expected
Itís all about making that GTA
BoSox
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August 19th, 2021 at 6:01:03 AM permalink
Quote: redietz

What Keyser said.
And what about people who claim they continually win massive amounts, but then claim they camp out in suites on the casinos' dime in virtual perpetuity? That's gotta be some bizarro kind of cheapskating. Suites are nice, but if you have that kind of money, your bedroom at home is undoubtedly nicer. So what's the thrill of squatting in a suite?



Yes, your bedroom at home is absolutely nicer but without the thrill. Knowing full well that the continuation of squatting in a suite is giving a few others ulcers as well as putting some people on tranquilizers is giving more than enough enjoyment, and entertainment value itself than even the actual gaming factor to the individual than the few lost comforts of home. I expect much, much more.
billryan
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August 19th, 2021 at 7:11:52 AM permalink
Wouldn't taking advantage of free suites while airBnBining your residence be an AP move?
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
billryan
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August 19th, 2021 at 7:12:22 AM permalink
When I was much younger and my dad was teaching me how men behave, I remember him telling me the easiest way to tip was to double the sales tax. Sadly, the sales tax in Arizona rounds off to 10% so still taking his suggestion would leave to leaving a minimum of 20%.
Last edited by: billryan on Aug 19, 2021
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Joeman
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August 19th, 2021 at 7:46:50 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

When I was much younger and my dad was teaching me how men have, I remember him telling me the easiest way to tip was to double the sales tax. Sadly, the sales tax in Arizona rounds off to 10% so still taking his suggestion would leave to leaving a minimum of 20%.

When I was younger, triple the sales tax was the shortcut. At the time I started actually paying for my own meals, FL sales tax was 5%. Now, it has crept up to 7.5%. Interestingly, what "they" say to tip has crept up at almost the same rate!
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BoSox
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August 19th, 2021 at 9:19:56 AM permalink
Last Friday I finally accepted an invitation to go out and socialize with an older-lifetime friend who has been trying for at least six months now to get me back into the mainstream from me being a widower. Although I was apprehensive considering what old-timers do and go to socialize. Well, he took me to a beautiful Golf Country Club that had a live band that played the type of music that suited an older crowd, and another old friend was there and sat down with us ' none of us are gay". The band played on a huge two-level outside patio as the temperature was very hot to be playing inside. I bought the first round and had to actually go inside the clubhouse to make the purchase as there were no waitresses to cater to which turned out to be a fairly good size crowd of a mostly older mix of people. While inside I had to wait quite a while to be served as there were good lines of people waiting ahead of me. I do not know if the club was having trouble or not finding people to hire but this seemed like a big inconvenience. Especially considering the high prices of the drinks plus tips. Everything else seemed nice and plenty of dancing was taking place which I did get involved in as there were plenty of women that were sitting together.

However, this week I was thinking of an AP move if I go back and meet my friends. I will do my own driving this time and will bring a cooler filled with what my friends and I like to drink in my trunk. Of course, discretion will be necessary as the frequency of visits to the parking lot but it will serve a purpose.
billryan
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August 19th, 2021 at 9:53:23 AM permalink
At NY Giants football games, I met a number of people who brought beer and mixed drinks into the stadium wearing what I called a beer bladder. It's a sort of rubbery wine skin that wraps around your stomach under your shirt. It gives the impression of a decent beer belly. Perhaps something like that would be more discreet.
I have no idea how it will go over with the widows so you might have to choose between frugalness and being a hit with the ladies.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
kewlj
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August 19th, 2021 at 10:28:50 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Wouldn't taking advantage of free suites while airBnBining your residence be an AP move?



I did this my first few years in Las Vegas. I think this was before airBnB, but I would rent out my condo a block off the strip several times a year for long weekends, New years, the first weekend of March madness, which usually coincided with St Partricks day and valantines day if it fell towards the weekend. Could also do the regular 3 day weekends of Presidents day, MLK day, memorial day, ect, but I mostly just did the 3 mentioned. People were willing to pay more for those 3 prime periods.

I didn't get a suite, but just a regular comped room, at one of the evil empire strip properties. The money I made from those 3 long weekends covered my condo homeowners fee for the year.
kewlj
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August 19th, 2021 at 10:47:13 AM permalink
Quote: TomG

In most of the examples listed, the biggest cheapskate is whomever in management decided to pay wages so far below market value that the worker would be dependent on tips.

Other than that, in general, I just don't care. I am certain that anyone who does look down on people being cheapskates for not tipping in these examples isn't tipping the people cleaning the casino floor, nor tipping service workers at 7-11 or Wal-Mart. So any derogatory opinions are hypocritical.

With rare exceptions, the only reason I would ever go to a ticket writer with the sports books is because I am limited on my account. Why should anyone tip for a service they don't want?



I agree with everything TomG said. I think tipping has gotten out of hand. Every job/occupation thinks they should be tipped. Any little shop or store you enter has a tip jar.

It really is the business owner's responsibilty to pay their employees a fare wage. THAT is the cost of doing business. If a patron feels they got extrodinary service and wants to leave a small gratuity fine, but how it got to be mandotory 20%, some places adding it right to your bills, is ridiculous.

Now lets move to the casino experience. Hit a handpay on a machine and you are expected to tip. Guess, what I would rather not have that service. I don't want the handpay (just regular cashout is fine) or the paperwork that goes with it, nor to stop my play and waste 15 minutes. So I am required to tip for what I see as a nusiance.

Table games. I guess if you are out on a saturday night playing for fun and you win big, it is ok to tip the dealer, although he/she didn't do anything special to help you win. If they did, you both broke the law. Well, I am not out for fun, I play for a living. And I play short sessions, 20-30 minutes. I also don't believe a dealer, lets say blackjack is providing a persoanlized service worthy of a tip. It is a low end job like a factory worker. The saying is a monkey could be taught to deal cards, and we are getting to that point with the video and stadium type games on the increase. Do you know I saw a video blackjack game with an option to tip the video dealer?

And finally, it seems to be Las Vegas more than other places, but dealers have become.....no other word to say it tip whores. They are practically asking/begging for tips. AND some are willing to cross lines of legality to get tips. I see dealers make intentional payout errors in the players favor, hoping to get a tip. And if they get one, another error magically occurs.
AxelWolf
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August 19th, 2021 at 11:47:02 AM permalink
Quote: Gandler

I agree.

However, (in American at any rate), tipping is expected at certain jobs (generally tip-based jobs where people are paid below minimum wage), (and yes I am well aware if a server does not make minimum wage after tips, the company does have to pay the difference up to minimum wage). If you don't tip at restaurants you are ensuring that people get paid just minimum wage (and by "you" I don't mean you specifically, but any one who does not tip).

Tipping is basically a cost saving measure (it shifts some of the labor cost directly to the consumer). Of course people who don't tip can take advantage of this (because they don't have to pay the increased cost a meal would otherwise be, and save money by not tipping).

The same argument applies to casino dealers.

I have never understood tipping slot attendants when they hand pay you, and I have never understood tipping cashiers (for most of my 21+ life I did not even realize this was a thing many people do), granted I rarely play slots and can count my hand pays on one hand (when I do get them its usually because if I do have slot play, or feel like playing slots, I just do one spin or a couple of spins on the highest demon I can which very occasional means a hand pay if anything decent hits). Honestly the fact that cashiers and slot attendants are tip-based positions is still baffling to me (I understand dealers and of course servers).

I guess my point is, there is a lot of tipping I don't understand (or agree with), but if its expected to tip, you are damaging that employees earnings by not tipping (even if its just a few dollars). I wish tipping would go away overnight, and people just were paid a base salary (and products were price adjusted if needed to compensate such), but while its expected the right thing to do is to tip.

To give a ground passenger parallel, I believe in tipping Ubers, but not Taxis. This is because Uber drivers use their own car and only get paid when they get rides (yes I know some Taxis are owner-operated, but its not the norm, at least not in many cities, and when it is, the fare is going right to them). Also, (at least in my home area), Taxis are about 2-2.5X the price of Uber (I have done exact same ride/route on both, generally to and from the airport to my house each way to compare for a set route, and yes Uber can sometimes be pricier at peak times, but even at its worse its still vastly cheaper than a Taxi, even at its worst its often at least 50% discount so to speak).

I am rarely tipping Lyft and Uber drivers now, there would have to be some special reason for me to do so, especially now that the prices have been all jacked up sky high and the waiting time has increased. I think it costs less to take a taxi in many cases now. I don't even bother with Lyft or Uber from the airport anymore.

I think tipping the slot attendant for jackpots is a...let's share the wealth/good fortune mentality.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
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August 19th, 2021 at 12:01:22 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

I did this my first few years in Las Vegas. I think this was before airBnB, but I would rent out my condo a block off the strip several times a year for long weekends, New years, the first weekend of March madness, which usually coincided with St Partricks day and valantines day if it fell towards the weekend. Could also do the regular 3 day weekends of Presidents day, MLK day, memorial day, ect, but I mostly just did the 3 mentioned. People were willing to pay more for those 3 prime periods.

I didn't get a suite, but just a regular comped room, at one of the evil empire strip properties. The money I made from those 3 long weekends covered my condo homeowners fee for the year.

Yikes, I would never want to rent out the place I lived in to make a few extra bucks. Sounds like a major pain in the ass, especially for a card counter, I'm wondering what does with all their chip inventory.

I think one would have to live a very minimalist lifestyle to do that.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
billryan
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August 19th, 2021 at 12:09:13 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Yikes, I would never want to rent out the place I lived in to make a few extra bucks. Sounds like a major pain in the ass, especially for a card counter, I'm wondering what does with all their chip inventory.

I think one would have to live a very minimalist lifestyle to do that.




My sister had a house at Woodloch Pines, a very popular resort in Pennsylvania for a few years. It was a weekend home they used about five or six weekends and maybe two full weeks a year. They rented it out thru the resort and she says it paid all their fees for the year. What they did was keep a large locked walk in closet with their stuff in the basement and kept their towels and sheets separate from the stuff used for renters. I don't think it worked out as well as they were promised as they sold it within five years, but would still go to the resort a few times a year.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
kewlj
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August 19th, 2021 at 12:24:14 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Yikes, I would never want to rent out the place I lived in to make a few extra bucks. Sounds like a major pain in the ass, especially for a card counter, I'm wondering what does with all their chip inventory.

I think one would have to live a very minimalist lifestyle to do that.



It was a decade ago, my first couple years in Vegas. My chip inventory was smaller, my rotation was smaller.

The building was a condo-hotel if you are familiar with that. The Trump location is a condo hotel if that helps. What that means is normally people buy the units but are restricted to living there to like 60 days a year. I was not restricted, so I and a few other lived there permanantly. When they are not there, the owner has the option to place his unit into the pool that will be rented out like a hotel unit. I never did that, but the point is because that was the situation there were several secure areas for the owner to lock things away, while others are using the unit. That was all a bit of a hassle, which is why I limited my renting out my unit (privately) to those few big times of year. I could get pretty big money for a 3 day weekend over new years or first week of march madness. Like I said, those couple times a year I did it paid my whole years worth of condo fees.

Now today I live in a highrise condo, and while not a condo-hotel, I could still rent out rpivately a couple times a year for good money, but at this point in my life, not interested. It was just a different time for me, still building BR and all.
DRich
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August 19th, 2021 at 1:22:58 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I am rarely tipping Lyft and Uber drivers now, there would have to be some special reason for me to do so, especially now that the prices have been all jacked up sky high and the waiting time has increased. I think it costs less to take a taxi in many cases now. I don't even bother with Lyft or Uber from the airport anymore.

I think tipping the slot attendant for jackpots is a...let's share the wealth/good fortune mentality.



I am with you on that. i used to add a dollar or two for a tip but rarely now.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Gandler
Gandler
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September 27th, 2021 at 5:15:08 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I am rarely tipping Lyft and Uber drivers now, there would have to be some special reason for me to do so, especially now that the prices have been all jacked up sky high and the waiting time has increased. I think it costs less to take a taxi in many cases now. I don't even bother with Lyft or Uber from the airport anymore.

I think tipping the slot attendant for jackpots is a...let's share the wealth/good fortune mentality.

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    Maybe its regional (actually I know that it is), but where I live, Uber rates have been way down the last few months. Its much cheaper to ride in Uber than as far back as I can remember (2017 here). This applies to both airport rides and just getting an Uber to the bar. In fact my last ride to the airport I almost felt bad, because it was so low, the driver cannot have much of a cut (under 20, where a Taxi would have been over 60, I think 65ish, in the past 30-32 was pretty average for standard Uber to get to or from the airport). It seems like Uber rates are at an all time low, even Pre-pandemic (the lowest I have seen since I have ever used Uber), at least where I live.

    During the pandemic I do not think I used Uber at all so I cannot compare during its worst periods (probably before this summer, late March of 2020 would be the last time to return from the airport, and I recall it being average for the time, higher than present, probably in the low 30s).

    This summer Uber has been super cheap (I mean its always far cheaper than Taxis here, even at its worse, but noticeably more so). Like almost half of what it used to be at some times of day (it changes based on demand).

    But, Uber was specifically founded as a higher priced ride to avoid tipping (in fact it was originally not allowed). This was changed to drastically lower the price some years ago, and now its the norm. I would be fine if Uber raised its prices to void tipping, this is why I do not tip Taxis (as they are employees and using a company car). However, when Uber is 2X cheaper (at its worst, sometimes 3X+), I have no issues tipping.

    But, yeah I really cannot concede that the prices have been jacked skyhigh (I would say all time low this summer to be perfectly honest), and nowhere near Taxi levels (which have remained basically steady, and don't really change based on demand or time of day etc...).

    Honestly even the highest level of Uber (Black or Premium or whatever its called now), even with the "take a pet option" (which makes any ride even more expensive) is still slightly cheaper than standard taxis (and I just hopped on the app to confirm that).... Its just a better deal than Taxis. And, sadly because its such a good deal it means drivers generally get the short end of the stick.
    DRich
    DRich
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    September 27th, 2021 at 6:00:07 PM permalink
    In Las Vegas right now Uber and Lyft ar. expensive but probably still slightly less than a taxi/
    At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
    unJon
    unJon 
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    September 27th, 2021 at 7:24:47 PM permalink
    Quote: Gandler



    But, Uber was specifically founded as a higher priced ride to avoid tipping (in fact it was originally not allowed). This was changed to drastically lower the price some years ago, and now its the norm. I would be fine if Uber raised its prices to void tipping, this is why I do not tip Taxis (as they are employees and using a company car). However, when Uber is 2X cheaper (at its worst, sometimes 3X+), I have no issues tipping.



    Quote clipped and bold added.

    I thought, in NYC at least, that most taxi drivers paid a rental fee for the car and then pocketed fares and tips. Is that not right?
    The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
    Gandler
    Gandler
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    September 28th, 2021 at 6:04:33 PM permalink
    Quote: unJon

    Quote: Gandler



    But, Uber was specifically founded as a higher priced ride to avoid tipping (in fact it was originally not allowed). This was changed to drastically lower the price some years ago, and now its the norm. I would be fine if Uber raised its prices to void tipping, this is why I do not tip Taxis (as they are employees and using a company car). However, when Uber is 2X cheaper (at its worst, sometimes 3X+), I have no issues tipping.



    Quote clipped and bold added.

    I thought, in NYC at least, that most taxi drivers paid a rental fee for the car and then pocketed fares and tips. Is that not right?
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    I have no clue about NYC, but even if that is the case, they are still not using a personal vehicle. If they break down (or have an incident) in a company rental, the company covers all of the costs (or at least I would imagine that they have to). There is still zero risk to the driver (as far as legal and personal expenses). Its not the same as using your personal car to drive random people around.

    I would be happy if tip culture went away tomorrow and all jobs were salaried, but that is not reality. So all we can do is treat people right in the roles that they are in.

    Ironically I have a feeling that anti-tip people would be the most upset at tipping ending. Because as it stands they are +EV by getting cheaper services and not tipping. If they had to pay the same as everyone else (IE meals went up a set amount to cover salaries and benefits, for example let's say that 100 USD dinner turned 120 USD for everyone), they would not be happy, but that is getting off topic. But, there are certainly some people out there that feel they are getting one over on people by getting an expensive meal (or ride or whatever) and not tipping. I even know some casino players who feel they increase their edge by not tipping. This is a real thing, not a hypothetical.

    For example, to go back to gambling, I would be fine with an increased HE for some games, if all floor staff became salaried, some people (even some on this very forum) would not, because it would hurt their edge....
    Vegasrider
    Vegasrider
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    September 29th, 2021 at 1:05:07 PM permalink
    Unless you have personally worked in the service industry and relied on tips as part or most of your income, most people will NEVER understand. Certain celebrities and sport icons have been highlighted as 'Cheap" or "Generous' tippers. Scottie Pippen best known with the Chicago Bulls has been labled cheap and Actor Ben Affleck as generous. If you are on the cheap side, don't create an embarrassing moment when you are out with other people if you are a cheap or horrible tipper.

    Again, many countries, tips are frowned upom, so labeling a foreigner as cheap, they get a pass whether its at the tables or dining area.

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