Poll

3 votes (17.64%)
2 votes (11.76%)
2 votes (11.76%)
7 votes (41.17%)
9 votes (52.94%)

17 members have voted

USpapergames
USpapergames
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January 2nd, 2021 at 4:11:31 PM permalink
https://youtu.be/OT71hro0Gl0

I don't care about your fear of losing your job over giving your honest opinion, I want to hear some raw feedback of what everyone thinks of the incident.
Math is the only true form of knowledge
USpapergames
USpapergames
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January 2nd, 2021 at 5:27:57 PM permalink
Is someone taking down my thread & if so, why??? This is totally gambling-related material!
Math is the only true form of knowledge
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
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January 2nd, 2021 at 5:50:56 PM permalink
I know two survivors of it.

My vote was only the gunman is at fault. I have reason to believe there was probably a second gunman who got cold feet at the last minute.

I'll allow the thread because it's Vegas related, but will have no compunction to take action if it veers into conspiracy theories.
ďExtraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.Ē -- Carl Sagan
USpapergames
USpapergames
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January 2nd, 2021 at 6:07:05 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I know two survivors of it.

My vote was only the gunman is at fault. I have reason to believe there was probably a second gunman who got cold feet at the last minute.

I'll allow the thread because it's Vegas related, but will have no compunction to take action if it veers into conspiracy theories.



Oh wow, no definitely not making any claims to conspiracy theories. I honestly only have an opinion as to whom was at fault. I wasn't there so all I can make an opinion on is the facts.

I'm so sorry for all the people who had to go through that crisis
Math is the only true form of knowledge
DRich
DRich
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January 2nd, 2021 at 6:16:28 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I know two survivors of it.

My vote was only the gunman is at fault. I have reason to believe there was probably a second gunman who got cold feet at the last minute.

I'll allow the thread because it's Vegas related, but will have no compunction to take action if it veers into conspiracy theories.



I would love to know why you think there may have been a second gunman that got cold feet. I haven't heard it even mentioned.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
USpapergames
USpapergames
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January 2nd, 2021 at 6:55:16 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

I would love to know why you think there may have been a second gunman that got cold feet. I haven't heard it even mentioned.



I 2nd your comment. I lean more to their just being 1 gunman but again I'm just sticking with the variable facts so I left it open. But when I say responsible, I don't mean directly responsible for the deaths and injuries. Even being partially responsible is being responsible!
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USpapergames
USpapergames
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January 2nd, 2021 at 7:01:26 PM permalink
Omg someone just voted the victims were responsible just like when Mandalay bay Bay sued all the victims for getting shot :'(

That was supposed to be a joke in the poll votes guys!
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OnceDear
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January 3rd, 2021 at 1:05:41 AM permalink
Quote: USpapergames

Is someone taking down my thread & if so, why??? This is totally gambling-related material!

I took down the duplicate.
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
USpapergames
USpapergames
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January 3rd, 2021 at 11:57:15 PM permalink
So this discussion is just terrible. Allow me to spice things up.

I could understand not wanting to talk about the casino's blame in all of this. Maybe your a** h*** boss sees your comment and cans you for your opinion. But surely you can give me an opinion on LVPD or the casino's security??? Surely nobody would ever care about an opinion of those individuals (unless somehow they are all connected?). Btw I consider responsibility to be not just for the actions of the people that died that night but also the actions of how the crises was handled as a whole. There is no excuse for having a memorial of the largest shooting in American history 7 miles away from the site of the crime!

As yourself, is it's acceptable for police offices to cower instead of stopping someone from killing people??? Do we not pay law enforcement as an act of civic duty to actively step in the line of fire when necessary??? How many people would still be alive today if LVPD didn't pursue the gunman over 10 minutes sooner??? If you're not saying something about it I'm just going to assume your silence says it's acceptable to you!

Let's talk about the casino security. Do you think it's acceptable to be able to transport DOZENS of FULL-SCALE RIFLES into a casino hotel??? Not only was the security so lax that no room cards were needed to gain access to the elevators but he had a KID do all the transporting of these massive firearms 💪!!! How is a minor allowed to roam free without their parents is a mystery to me, yet allow transporting dozens of firearms??? Does nobody see any issues in the routines & procedures with the casino's security? The sad thing is in the documentary it appears that the contracted security company had warned Mandalay Bay of their flaw elevator security flaw years prior to the incident, so maybe the bulk of the blame should be on the casino? But then again I also believe it was the security companies' responsibility to report any casino security flaws that don't meet (I want to say it's a federal law) federal or state standards? I'm not an expert on this, that's why I posted this question since I want to know what everyone else thinks but nobody wants to open up on the topic :(
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Mission146
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January 4th, 2021 at 8:36:31 AM permalink
Here's an article I wrote a few days after the incident, if you're interested:

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/las-vegas-shooting/

The article was written prior to the ban on political discussion on the Forums, so please keep that in mind if you want to quote and respond to anything in it in this thread. While I don't blame Mandalay Bay, there are some suggestions for what they (and other public venues) can do in the future that aren't necessarily political in nature.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
USpapergames
USpapergames
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January 4th, 2021 at 11:50:49 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Here's an article I wrote a few days after the incident, if you're interested:

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/las-vegas-shooting/

The article was written prior to the ban on political discussion on the Forums, so please keep that in mind if you want to quote and respond to anything in it in this thread. While I don't blame Mandalay Bay, there are some suggestions for what they (and other public venues) can do in the future that aren't necessarily political in nature.



So I disagree with some many things in your article it's not funny :/

1) It's disgusting how much you talk about gun laws as if that's the issue! The fact is that even if you make owning any firearm illegal you wouldn't have stopped the gunman (I refuse to say his name) from acquiring the guns anyway. I'm sorry but if your going to kill people & yourself then your not concerned with going to jail over breaking some laws. Did you know you can legally purchase automatic firearms & just buy a 3D printer to print the trigger assembly??? Seriously anyone could buy the majority of the firearms that he used from gun shows, which I've been to and have seen people selling full sizes assault rifles with no ID!!!

Btw, in the UK citizens can't own a firearm without applying for a license with the police department, yet criminals still use guns just like everywhere else in the world. But to me guns are just a small tool of destruction.

The sad part is that guns are not responsible in any way! The fact that you focused on making guns the issue shows me how ignorant you are about warfare. This is going to sound all bad but I truly believe that I could kill thousands of innocent people without ever using a firearm!!! I'm sorry but the big destroyer is bombs & always will be. If I was seriously about to kill a bunch of people I would do it like Ted Kaczynski only I wouldn't have mailed bombs, I would have gone to that concert stadium & rigged a bunch of C4 weeks before the show. The bombs would have blended into the scenery & would be stable to last years without going off until I set the electric destination switch. BTW I would be making all the C4 from scratch, since I know how.

Please explain to me how gun laws are going to stop someone like me from killing thousands of people? I wouldn't even need to be "remotely" close to the blast site, could always use a burning phone to set off the detonator. Then I'm still alive to do it again!!! Explain how gun laws are going to stop someone like me???

2) I agree with the need for improved casino security. Better preventative measures definitely could have been taken. Maybe wonding every guest is too much but definitely, a metal detector for luggage bigger than a backpack would be helpful.

3) So you don't discuss anything theories as to the gunman's motives??? He just so happened to choose to kill people on the strip of Las Vegas instead of any other crowded venue??? Don't you think his +million dollars of gambling losses just hours before the shooting had anything to do with it? You don't think that messing with a gambling addict's comps & room reservations isn't going to upset these wealthy degenerate customers??? Gambling addiction already drives people to do terrible things, why add more fire to someone who is already burning inside???

4) What is your deal with LVPD, are you on their side or something? You're not upset at how they "handled" the gunman, more like let him kill everyone until he killed himself before they made their way to the shooter! Your article makes it sound like the police got to the shooter before he killed himself!!! Disgusting 🤮
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jjjoooggg
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January 4th, 2021 at 12:35:27 PM permalink
The casinos don't benefit from this incident. In retro, The casinos could have made it harder for the gunman. But there will always be a weak point. He would have found a way.

Casinos also spend an enormous amount of money in security. As a restauarnat owner. I've been told to hire security guards numerous times because of robberies. Do you realize that hiring a full time cop moonlighting is probably 100K/year/locaiton. Do you think my one location even makes that amount of profit. No. Do you now realize that very few restaurants have security guards because only the most busy restaurants can afford security.

Our employees including our manager thought we should hire 50 extra employees per year. That is 750k /year. That was part of the reason we were going bankrupt. Our maintenance man wanted me to spend 50k on a garbage compactor that Sam's Club use. We don't even make that much trash. 1.5 mil on a new building when we would need 20 years to break even. Starbuck's is trying to sell a locaiotn with a capital rate of 5%. Long Johns 5%. Workers have no clue what a budget is. Which is why so many large and small businesses are failing. They want the owner to spend and spend on the company like there is no tommorrow.
Last edited by: jjjoooggg on Jan 4, 2021
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rxwine
rxwine
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January 4th, 2021 at 12:56:18 PM permalink
Note I canít use paper games objection arguments on prohibited subjects.

So Iíll use gambling.

Using an equivalent argument, itís true someone who is determined to gamble will find a way.

But paper games assumes for some reason that makes the attempt useless altogether.

The question you need to ask is, are various barriers cost effective and do they stop some gambling? And Is it worth the effort in cost?

Not do they stop everyone.

(Barriers can be combination.of a lot of things from punitive laws, to access to equipment, transmission of funds, etc.)

(Gambling is a lot harder to stop because so little paraphernalia is needed, compared to the 3 letter G word)
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USpapergames
USpapergames
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January 4th, 2021 at 2:06:44 PM permalink
Quote: jjjoooggg

The casinos don't benefit from this incident. In retro, The casinos could have made it harder for the gunman. But there will always be a weak point. He would have found a way.

Casinos also spend an enormous amount of money in security. As a restauarnat owner. I've been told to hire security guards numerous times because of robberies. Do you realize that hiring a full time cop moonlighting is probably 100K/year/locaiton. Do you think my one location even makes that amount of profit. No. Do you now realize that very few restaurants have security guards because only the most busy restaurants can afford security.

Our employees including our manager thought we should hire 50 extra employees per year. That is 750k /year. That was part of the reason we were going bankrupt. Our maintenance man wanted me to spend 50k on a garbage compactor that Sam's Club use. We don't even make that much trash. 1.5 mil on a new building when we would need 20 years to break even. Starbuck's is trying to sell a locaiotn with a capital rate of 5%. Long Johns 5%. Workers have no clue what a budget is. Which is why so many large and small businesses are failing. They want the owner to spend and spend on the company like there is no tommorrow.



It's not that casinos don't benefit from the incident but they actually lose money from it. Not only just the customer who will never return to their properties but every one of those people that died was a paying customer so if you want to talk about profit losses then it makes sense for casinos to be concerned with security. Especially considering the loss in profits from just PR alone!!!

That being said, I don't think hiring more security guards would have done anything to prevent the incident but more guards were not the issues that I addressed with the casino's security.
Math is the only true form of knowledge
USpapergames
USpapergames
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January 4th, 2021 at 2:09:08 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Note I canít use paper games objection arguments on prohibited subjects.

So Iíll use gambling.

Using an equivalent argument, itís true someone who is determined to gamble will find a way.

But paper games assumes for some reason that makes the attempt useless altogether.

The question you need to ask is, are various barriers cost effective and do they stop some gambling? And Is it worth the effort in cost?

Not do they stop everyone.

(Barriers can be combination.of a lot of things from punitive laws, to access to equipment, transmission of funds, etc.)

(Gambling is a lot harder to stop because so little paraphernalia is needed, compared to the 3 letter G word)



Prohibited subjects??? How is anything I'm saying political??? I believe I'm just sticking with the facts and asking questions about what everyone else thinks is right???

Please explain what you mean by "that makes the attempt useless altogether."

What are you talking about, barriers to gambling??? Do you think that the gunman incident could have been prevented if we just 86ed him for having a problem??? There are plenty of people that lose millions gambling all the time & they don't go shooting people up. You don't think that deceptive comps & room reservations to entice players to play is wrong??? Are we just going to mentally screen every player before they enter the casino??? If a high roller wants to gamble at your casino are you going to stop him until your verified for a phd psychologist that they aren't suffering from a psychological disorder???

The sad thing is I predict this type of crisis will happen A LOT more in the upcoming years. This could be trending like columbine or going postal all over again. Mack my words if casinos don't stop these devious practices just to squeeze customers, this could start to become a normal event & there won't be anything we can do about it!!!
Last edited by: USpapergames on Jan 4, 2021
Math is the only true form of knowledge
Greasyjohn
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January 4th, 2021 at 2:28:32 PM permalink
Quote: USpapergames

Omg someone just voted the victims were responsible just like when Mandalay bay Bay sued all the victims for getting shot :'(

That was supposed to be a joke in the poll votes guys!



To create a poll that includes the choice "The Victims are at fault" is in incredibly bad taste.
USpapergames
USpapergames
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January 4th, 2021 at 2:42:01 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

To create a poll that includes the choice "The Victims are at fault" is in incredibly bad taste.



I agree, but let's remember that I create polls to conduct research on the WoV members. I added that choice as an obvious joke since I'm assuming nobody actually believes it. So I've concluded that the poll votes are rigged. They do represent how people feel but more how people feel about me. How else could you explain my advantage slot play thread suddenly having 14 votes of yes when there were 12 votes of no before there ever being a vote for yes. The only explanation is that when I told everyone that the answer was no and that I fooled everyone into believing I wanted them to pick yes as the answer, everyone started picking yes just because they finally realized my true intentions.

The same thing is hauling with this form. People want to upset me by voting for the wrong thing to upset me so the ridiculous vote was actually obvious for me to include, that way I could tell that it's not just that thread but that there is a collective group dedicated to ruining my WoV experience :/
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rxwine
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January 4th, 2021 at 2:44:31 PM permalink
Quote: USpapergames

Prohibited subjects??? How is anything I'm saying political???



We've hundreds of posts discussing guns here, but I'm pretty sure if you continue there it will get shut down. I'm surprised that thread wasn't actually closed already.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/6252-gun-show-loophole-rant/167/
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USpapergames
USpapergames
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January 4th, 2021 at 2:47:56 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

We've hundreds of posts discussing guns here, but I'm pretty sure if you continue there it will get shut down. I'm surprised that thread wasn't actually closed already.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/6252-gun-show-loophole-rant/167/



Sir, my entire point is I DON'T want to discuss gun laws!!!!!!!!

Please explain what else is political 🙏

Is it political to want to mitigate a crisis like this from re-occurring???

Is it political to discuss the facts about the crises???

Is it political to be upset about people dying???
Math is the only true form of knowledge
rxwine
rxwine
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January 4th, 2021 at 3:01:24 PM permalink
Quote: USpapergames

Mack my words if casinos don't stop these devious practices just to squeeze customers, this could start to become a normal event & there won't be anything we can do about it!!!



I agree that better attention to good customer service would reduce incidents of customer violence, but wouldn't actually stop all of it.

Good customer service doesn't actually employ making the customer feeling cheated while doing business. IMO. But then again perceptions are not always correct either.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
USpapergames
USpapergames
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January 4th, 2021 at 3:31:06 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

I agree that better attention to good customer service would reduce incidents of customer violence, but wouldn't actually stop all of it.

Good customer service doesn't actually employ making the customer feeling cheated while doing business. IMO. But then again perceptions are not always correct either.



I agree with you, but unfortunately, it doesn't appear as tho customer service was the issue but rather that the Mandalay Bay purposeful had told the gunman that he has a valid room reservation & I think it was $800 in comps. But when he showed up they denied all of the claims & would even go as far as to say there were no rooms for him to purchase unless he conveniently started gambling +million.
Math is the only true form of knowledge
sabre
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January 4th, 2021 at 6:38:12 PM permalink
Quote: USpapergames

I agree with you, but unfortunately, it doesn't appear as tho customer service was the issue but rather that the Mandalay Bay purposeful had told the gunman that he has a valid room reservation & I think it was $800 in comps. But when he showed up they denied all of the claims & would even go as far as to say there were no rooms for him to purchase unless he conveniently started gambling +million.



Do you want to cite a source for this?
USpapergames
USpapergames
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January 4th, 2021 at 6:51:42 PM permalink
Quote: sabre

Do you want to cite a source for this?



Did you watch the documentary?
Math is the only true form of knowledge
USpapergames
USpapergames
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January 5th, 2021 at 8:21:32 AM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

To create a poll that includes the choice "The Victims are at fault" is in incredibly bad taste.



You know what's bad taste, the WoV members who wasted their vote on that choice! I'm not at fault for adding it to the poll when people are responsible for their own votes. It's sad people would vote so terribly wrong just to upset me when in reality it just makes WoV look like the forum is filled with a bunch of a** h****. Seriously tho, the thread was supported to show how much the incident affected people & how they wanted certain people to take responsibility for their part in adding to the crises, yet the thread poll makes fun of the victims :( That poll was supported to have 100 votes by now & all 0 votes of them should be blaming the victims! It's not a funny joke yet some people are sick enough in the head to want to play games like hurt in my feelings is more important then offending others with your ridiculous votes. If that poll was accurate I would seriously consider leaving WoV for good. Anyone who really thinks the victims are at fault is just plain evil!!!
Math is the only true form of knowledge

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