Celebrity Deaths
Direct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezC1X-45uWA
Quote: WizardPoor Linda Lavin, who also died 12/29/24, got overshadowed by Jimmy. Alice was one of my favorite shows as a kid. Anyone up for some Alice trivia?
Direct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezC1X-45uWA
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Sure have at it.
Only thing I didn’t like about that show was how shameless she was about saying she was available for Broadway musicals.
Quote: GialmereAlice is a rarity in that, like MASH or The Odd Couple, it is a TV show that is considered better that the movie. What movie is the show based on?
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Alice doesn't live here anymore. I never saw the movie, but I read the book, and it wasn't the stuff on which sitcoms are usually based.
Quote: billryanAlice doesn't live here anymore. I never saw the movie, but I read the book, and it wasn't the stuff on which sitcoms are usually based.
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Correct.
In the tv show, Mel's Diner is located in Phoenix, but in the film Alice flees Phoenix and gets a job at Mel's Diner in what AZ city?
Quote: GialmereQuote: DRichWow, I don't know that I ever remember seeing a foreign car in the 1970's. I lived in the Rust Belt so maybe it was just my area that didn't have imported cars.
The first foreign car I remember seeing in person was a Honda CVCC in the 1980's.
Surely someone in your area drove a Volkswagen Beetle? They were everywhere in the US, with sales spurred on by Disney's Herbie the Love Bug films.
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Honestly, I don't ever remember seeing a VW in person in the 1970's. Again, where I lived your house might get fire bombed if you have a foreign car in the driveway.
I drove a VW Rabbit my first two years and a Mercedes my senior year and mechanics that worked on them were few and far between.
The only time I ever got grief for driving a foreign car was a few years ago in Bis bee, when my neighbor asked me why I drove a FKN Rice Burner
Quote: billryan
The only time I ever got grief for driving a foreign car was a few years ago in Bis bee, when my neighbor asked me why I drove a FKN Rice Burner
What was your response? I would have said something silly along the lines of "I am tired of being broken down on the side of the road".
Quote: DRichQuote: billryan
The only time I ever got grief for driving a foreign car was a few years ago in Bis bee, when my neighbor asked me why I drove a FKN Rice Burner
What was your response? I would have said something silly along the lines of "I am tired of being broken down on the side of the road".
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I'd been warned about him in advance so I didn't have much to say to him. In the year plus that I lived in that house, the cops were called to his compound several times, and the last I saw him was when a SWAT team arrested him in a predawn raid. Among the charges were a felon in possession of firearms, possession of guns with no serial numbers, possession of a shotgun with an illegal barrel, and possession of precursor chemicals.
Quote: WizardPoor Linda Lavin, who also died 12/29/24, got overshadowed by Jimmy. Alice was one of my favorite shows as a kid. Anyone up for some Alice trivia?
Direct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezC1X-45uWA
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I think characters who were supposed to be the star but got overshadowed by another character would be interesting trivia.
Quote: billryanWhen I was in school, Rochester still had its auto plants, and some businesses had "American cars only" signs.
I drove a VW Rabbit my first two years and a Mercedes my senior year and mechanics that worked on them were few and far between.
The only time I ever got grief for driving a foreign car was a few years ago in Bis bee, when my neighbor asked me why I drove a FKN Rice Burner
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I was told part of the thing on mechanics was parts. As to the rest I have heard of stories of guys at the mills here were told not to even bring their VW dune buggy. I have heard of a guy at a GM plant was called to Personnel (HR) and told he made his probation and he had 30 days to get a GM car if he wanted to park in the lot. I think at the steel mills it was simply understood.
Being 7 in 1974 when Herbie rides again was released I screamed and pointed every time I saw one in the street "There's another Herbie".
Probably drove my mom buggy (no pun intended) but she went along with it.
Quote: DRichQuote: billryanHe lived in a hospice longer than anyone I'm aware of.
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When he went to hospice the Wizard and I had a bet on how long he would last. If I remember correct I had under 5 weeks. I still owe the Wizard a beer for that one.
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If i'd have been in on that, I would've said 6 months to a year. But he outlived all the predictions. He collected a Presidential pension and some funding for his office staff from 1981 until 2024-almost 11 full Presidential terms. Dude got his money's worth out of the gig.
Quote: darkozIn NY the VW bug was everywhere.
Being 7 in 1974 when Herbie rides again was released I screamed and pointed every time I saw one in the street "There's another Herbie".
Probably drove my mom buggy (no pun intended) but she went along with it.
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They sold over 340000 Beetles in the USA in 1973 alone. Anyone saying they did not see any is lying or clueless.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: darkozIn NY the VW bug was everywhere.
Being 7 in 1974 when Herbie rides again was released I screamed and pointed every time I saw one in the street "There's another Herbie".
Probably drove my mom buggy (no pun intended) but she went along with it.
link to original post
They sold over 340000 Beetles in the USA in 1973 alone. Anyone saying they did not see any is lying or clueless.
link to original post
My very first car in 1965 was a 1957 VW Bug. No heat, no gas gauge, no radio, no power, it was absolutely wonderful.
Quote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: darkozIn NY the VW bug was everywhere.
Being 7 in 1974 when Herbie rides again was released I screamed and pointed every time I saw one in the street "There's another Herbie".
Probably drove my mom buggy (no pun intended) but she went along with it.
link to original post
They sold over 340000 Beetles in the USA in 1973 alone. Anyone saying they did not see any is lying or clueless.
link to original post
My very first car in 1965 was a 1957 VW Bug. No heat, no gas gauge, no radio, no power, it was absolutely wonderful.
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You can just about rebuild the entire engine with a Leatherman and a small sledgehammer. (A set of feeler gauges helps, but you can usually get it running again without them.)
Quote: WizardPoor Linda Lavin, who also died 12/29/24, got overshadowed by Jimmy. Alice was one of my favorite shows as a kid. Anyone up for some Alice trivia?
Direct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezC1X-45uWA
link to original post
Speaking of Celebrity deaths that got overshadowed by other celebrity deaths
Farrah Fawcett died the VERY same day as Michael Jackson. Her death was overshadowed by Michael.
Sidney Poitier died a couple of days before or after Bob Saget. Sidney despite being an Actor for YEARS before Bob was even BORN got overshadowed by Bob.
Ray Charles died the same year as Ronald Reagan. Ray's death was overshadowed by Ronald.
Billy Mays died a couple of days after Farrah and Michael. His death was overshadowed by both of their deaths.
In a rare family type, Debbie Reynolds and Carrie Fisher, Mother and Daughter died just about three days apart. Debbie's death was overshadowed by Carrie's.
💡
Quote: NathanQuote: WizardPoor Linda Lavin, who also died 12/29/24, got overshadowed by Jimmy.
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Speaking of Celebrity deaths that got overshadowed by other celebrity deaths
Farrah Fawcett died the VERY same day as Michael Jackson. Her death was overshadowed by Michael.
Sidney Poitier died a couple of days before or after Bob Saget. Sidney despite being an Actor for YEARS before Bob was even BORN got overshadowed by Bob.
Ray Charles died the same year as Ronald Reagan. Ray's death was overshadowed by Ronald.
Billy Mays died a couple of days after Farrah and Michael. His death was overshadowed by both of their deaths.
In a rare family type, Debbie Reynolds and Carrie Fisher, Mother and Daughter died just about three days apart. Debbie's death was overshadowed by Carrie's.
💡
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Linda Lavin (didn't even know who she was, at least not by name), overshadowed by Jimmy Carter, agreed.
Michael Jackson did steal Farrah Fawcett's thunder.
All of the rest of the examples, disagree. (Who is Bob Saget?) You could try hard and not come up with worse examples.
Quote: MDawgQuote: NathanQuote: WizardPoor Linda Lavin, who also died 12/29/24, got overshadowed by Jimmy.
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Speaking of Celebrity deaths that got overshadowed by other celebrity deaths
Farrah Fawcett died the VERY same day as Michael Jackson. Her death was overshadowed by Michael.
Sidney Poitier died a couple of days before or after Bob Saget. Sidney despite being an Actor for YEARS before Bob was even BORN got overshadowed by Bob.
Ray Charles died the same year as Ronald Reagan. Ray's death was overshadowed by Ronald.
Billy Mays died a couple of days after Farrah and Michael. His death was overshadowed by both of their deaths.
In a rare family type, Debbie Reynolds and Carrie Fisher, Mother and Daughter died just about three days apart. Debbie's death was overshadowed by Carrie's.
💡
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Linda Lavin (didn't even know who she was, at least not by name), overshadowed by Jimmy Carter, agreed.
Michael Jackson did steal Farrah Fawcett's thunder.
All of the rest of the examples, disagree. (Who is Bob Saget?) You could try hard and not come up with worse examples.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Saget
Quote: MDawg
Linda Lavin (didn't even know who she was, at least not by name), overshadowed by Jimmy Carter, agreed.
Michael Jackson did steal Farrah Fawcett's thunder.
All of the rest of the examples, disagree. (Who is Bob Saget?) You could try hard and not come up with worse examples.
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It wasn't the first time a celebrity incident/death was overshadowed by someone doing a "moonwalk."
Ted Kennedy and his incident with Mary Jo Kopechne in 1969, driving off a bridge. Something else was going on that day... Neil somebody...
Quote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: darkozIn NY the VW bug was everywhere.
Being 7 in 1974 when Herbie rides again was released I screamed and pointed every time I saw one in the street "There's another Herbie".
Probably drove my mom buggy (no pun intended) but she went along with it.
link to original post
They sold over 340000 Beetles in the USA in 1973 alone. Anyone saying they did not see any is lying or clueless.
link to original post
My very first car in 1965 was a 1957 VW Bug. No heat, no gas gauge, no radio, no power, it was absolutely wonderful.
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It had a gas gauge, it just looked like a 1 ft ruler, didn't it?
As to same-day deaths Sammy Davis Jr. died the same day as Jim Henson but I do not remember an "overshadow" of any kind. Just mentions on the news even that late.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: darkozIn NY the VW bug was everywhere.
Being 7 in 1974 when Herbie rides again was released I screamed and pointed every time I saw one in the street "There's another Herbie".
Probably drove my mom buggy (no pun intended) but she went along with it.
link to original post
They sold over 340000 Beetles in the USA in 1973 alone. Anyone saying they did not see any is lying or clueless.
link to original post
My very first car in 1965 was a 1957 VW Bug. No heat, no gas gauge, no radio, no power, it was absolutely wonderful.
link to original post
It had a gas gauge, it just looked like a 1 ft ruler, didn't it?
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It was about 30 inches long and you stuck it down into the gas tank and pulled it out and it showed how many gallons you had left. The car got about 40 miles to the gallon so I wasn't getting gas very often. In those years gas was only 19 cents a gallon so it was a double whammy. I could drive it forever on $3 worth of gas.
Quote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: darkozIn NY the VW bug was everywhere.
Being 7 in 1974 when Herbie rides again was released I screamed and pointed every time I saw one in the street "There's another Herbie".
Probably drove my mom buggy (no pun intended) but she went along with it.
link to original post
They sold over 340000 Beetles in the USA in 1973 alone. Anyone saying they did not see any is lying or clueless.
link to original post
My very first car in 1965 was a 1957 VW Bug. No heat, no gas gauge, no radio, no power, it was absolutely wonderful.
link to original post
It had a gas gauge, it just looked like a 1 ft ruler, didn't it?
link to original post
It was about 30 inches long and you stuck it down into the gas tank and pulled it out and it showed how many gallons you had left. The car got about 40 miles to the gallon so I wasn't getting gas very often. In those years gas was only 19 cents a gallon so it was a double whammy. I could drive it forever on $3 worth of gas.
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No it didn’t
Quote: JimRockfordQuote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: darkozIn NY the VW bug was everywhere.
Being 7 in 1974 when Herbie rides again was released I screamed and pointed every time I saw one in the street "There's another Herbie".
Probably drove my mom buggy (no pun intended) but she went along with it.
link to original post
They sold over 340000 Beetles in the USA in 1973 alone. Anyone saying they did not see any is lying or clueless.
link to original post
My very first car in 1965 was a 1957 VW Bug. No heat, no gas gauge, no radio, no power, it was absolutely wonderful.
link to original post
It had a gas gauge, it just looked like a 1 ft ruler, didn't it?
link to original post
It was about 30 inches long and you stuck it down into the gas tank and pulled it out and it showed how many gallons you had left. The car got about 40 miles to the gallon so I wasn't getting gas very often. In those years gas was only 19 cents a gallon so it was a double whammy. I could drive it forever on $3 worth of gas.
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No it didn’t
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Bob only drove downhill.
Quote: JimRockfordQuote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: darkozIn NY the VW bug was everywhere.
Being 7 in 1974 when Herbie rides again was released I screamed and pointed every time I saw one in the street "There's another Herbie".
Probably drove my mom buggy (no pun intended) but she went along with it.
link to original post
They sold over 340000 Beetles in the USA in 1973 alone. Anyone saying they did not see any is lying or clueless.
link to original post
My very first car in 1965 was a 1957 VW Bug. No heat, no gas gauge, no radio, no power, it was absolutely wonderful.
link to original post
It had a gas gauge, it just looked like a 1 ft ruler, didn't it?
link to original post
It was about 30 inches long and you stuck it down into the gas tank and pulled it out and it showed how many gallons you had left. The car got about 40 miles to the gallon so I wasn't getting gas very often. In those years gas was only 19 cents a gallon so it was a double whammy. I could drive it forever on $3 worth of gas.
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No it didn’t
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I know some did. I saw later ones with a fuel gauge and it has "reserve" to the left of "E"
Quote: rxwineJust for DRich. I know that 69 Toyota was either bought in Fort Myers or somewhere close by. My Dad also had an office in Sarasota, so he might have gotten it up there. I don’t know if Cape Coral had a car dealership at that time.
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I would be surprised if the had a car dealership. My understanding is that the population of Cape Coral was only around 5,000 in 1969. I believe the whole Fort Myers area (including Cape Coral) was only around 60,000.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: darkozIn NY the VW bug was everywhere.
Being 7 in 1974 when Herbie rides again was released I screamed and pointed every time I saw one in the street "There's another Herbie".
Probably drove my mom buggy (no pun intended) but she went along with it.
link to original post
They sold over 340000 Beetles in the USA in 1973 alone. Anyone saying they did not see any is lying or clueless.
link to original post
That would be me. I am either lying or clueless.
Quote: JimRockfordQuote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: darkozIn NY the VW bug was everywhere.
Being 7 in 1974 when Herbie rides again was released I screamed and pointed every time I saw one in the street "There's another Herbie".
Probably drove my mom buggy (no pun intended) but she went along with it.
link to original post
They sold over 340000 Beetles in the USA in 1973 alone. Anyone saying they did not see any is lying or clueless.
link to original post
My very first car in 1965 was a 1957 VW Bug. No heat, no gas gauge, no radio, no power, it was absolutely wonderful.
link to original post
It had a gas gauge, it just looked like a 1 ft ruler, didn't it?
link to original post
It was about 30 inches long and you stuck it down into the gas tank and pulled it out and it showed how many gallons you had left. The car got about 40 miles to the gallon so I wasn't getting gas very often. In those years gas was only 19 cents a gallon so it was a double whammy. I could drive it forever on $3 worth of gas.
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No it didn’t
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Mine got 40 miles per gallon, I ought to know I drove it for 2 years. Had an engine about the size of a riding lawn mower only smaller.
The first car owned when I moved to California was a 1961 Volkswagen window van which are worth a lot of money today but I paid I think $300 for it and sold it two years later for $300. It also got extremely high gas mileage but not as good as the bug. I drove that van every day for 2 years I don't think I even changed the oil and I sold it for what I paid for it. What a deal. Of course it was the late 1970s, things were slightly different then.
Quote: DRichQuote: rxwineJust for DRich. I know that 69 Toyota was either bought in Fort Myers or somewhere close by. My Dad also had an office in Sarasota, so he might have gotten it up there. I don’t know if Cape Coral had a car dealership at that time.
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I would be surprised if the had a car dealership. My understanding is that the population of Cape Coral was only around 5,000 in 1969. I believe the whole Fort Myers area (including Cape Coral) was only around 60,000.
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NY had many more dealerships in the 1960s than they do today. My hometown of Mineol had Mineola Ford, Reese Buick, Nassau Chrysler, GC Volkswagon, and a dealership that handled Triumph and Fiats. None of them remain.
VWs didn't need a gas gauge as you always had the reserve tank to activate when you ran out of gas. I don't think they got anywhere near 40 miles a gallon, certainly not around town.
Quote: billryanQuote: DRichQuote: rxwineJust for DRich. I know that 69 Toyota was either bought in Fort Myers or somewhere close by. My Dad also had an office in Sarasota, so he might have gotten it up there. I don’t know if Cape Coral had a car dealership at that time.
link to original post
I would be surprised if the had a car dealership. My understanding is that the population of Cape Coral was only around 5,000 in 1969. I believe the whole Fort Myers area (including Cape Coral) was only around 60,000.
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NY had many more dealerships in the 1960s than they do today. My hometown of Mineol had Mineola Ford, Reese Buick, Nassau Chrysler, GC Volkswagon, and a dealership that handled Triumph and Fiats. None of them remain.
VWs didn't need a gas gauge as you always had the reserve tank to activate when you ran out of gas. I don't think they got anywhere near 40 miles a gallon, certainly not around town.
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The 57 bugs we're really small and had no extras on them that added weight. You could barely fit two adults in the front seat. And it was gutless, it wouldn't even go up a little hill without shifting down into third gear. The bugs got bigger as the years went on and they added things to them so they were heavier and the gas mileage went down.
That was a late 1960's bug, I believe with a 1500cc engine.
Earlier models may have had smaller engines, but I don't recall any chatter about significantly different fuel consumption - just which ones were perkier to get moving.
Quote: DieterBack when I drove a Bug, we were getting around 25mpg.
That was a late 1960's bug, I believe with a 1500cc engine.
Earlier models may have had smaller engines, but I don't recall any chatter about significantly different fuel consumption - just which ones were perkier to get moving.
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I don't think we are talking more than a few hundred ccs over the production run. Los of other changes could have affected fuel consumption. It is interesting that you never see any old ones running around anymore. Not even at the classic car cruises and the like. I realize newest ones in the USA are 50 years old now, but the millions sold I think I see more Microbuses out and about.
Quote: DieterBack when I drove a Bug, we were getting around 25mpg.
That was a late 1960's bug, I believe with a 1500cc engine.
Earlier models may have had smaller engines, but I don't recall any chatter about significantly different fuel consumption - just which ones were perkier to get moving.
link to original post
"Performance in a '57 Bug? The original Beetle was—there's no getting away from this—slow. The 1,600-pound car sold for $1,580 with a sunroof, and the built-to-a-budget specs included a 1,192-cc four-cylinder engine that produced 36 horsepower and 56 pound-feet of torque. The claimed top speed was 68 miles per hour, but the fuel economy was very good at 32 miles per gallon."
I got 40, oh well. 1200cc of solid power.
In 1980, Carter not only lost 489 electoral votes to 49, but he got trounced in the popular vote —.getting only about 41%. Carter, who is remembered for carrying his own luggage as president, tried to present himself as humble. But somebody actually humble would have taken the hint by the magnitude of his defeat. The real Jimmy Carter was stubborn and arrogant. He had plans for a second term, and he wanted to see them through despite the overwhelming rejection by the American people. So instead of stepping away, he spent the rest of his life simply pretending that he was still president and pursuing foreign policy goals even when it meant undermining the actual president.
In his book The Unfinished PresidencyDouglas Brinkley gave an account of Carter’s behavior in the run-up to the 1990–91 Persian Gulf conflict.
Concerned by the looming threat of war after Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait, Carter pulled out all the stops — and then some — to try to thwart the president, George H. W. Bush. Carter’s efforts started off within the realm of acceptable opposition for a former president. He wrote op-eds, hosted conferences, gave speeches — all urging peace talks as an alternative to repelling Saddam with the use of military force.
When that failed, he took things to an extraordinary level. Carter wrote a letter to the leaders of every country on the U.N. Security Council, as well as a dozen other world leaders, Brinkley recounted, making “a direct appeal to hold ‘good faith’ negotiations with Saddam Hussein before entering upon a war. Carter implied that mature nations should not act like lemmings, blindly following George Bush’s inflammatory ‘line in the sand rhetoric.’”
As if this weren’t enough, on January 10, 1991 — just five days before a deadline that had been set for Saddam to withdraw — Carter wrote to key Arab leaders urging them to abandon their support for the U.S., undermining months of careful diplomacy by the Bush administration. “You may have to forego approval from the White House, but you will find the French, Soviets and others fully supportive,” Carter advised them.
It is one thing for a former president to express opposition to a policy of the sitting president, but by actively working to get foreign leaders to withdraw support for the U.S. days before troops were to be in the cross fire, Carter was taking actions that were closer to treason than they were to legitimate peace activism.
Carter’s meddling was not limited to the first Iraq War or to Republican administrations. In 1994, there was a standoff between the U.S., its allies, and North Korea over the communist country’s nuclear program. The U.S. was floating the idea of sanctions at the United Nations. Over the years, Carter had received multiple invitations to visit North Korea from Kim Il-sung and was eager to fly over and defuse the situation with an ultimate goal of convening a North–South peace summit and unifying the peninsula. Begrudgingly, the Clinton administration agreed to let Carter meet with Kim as long as Carter made clear that he was a private citizen and that he was merely gathering information on the North Korean perspective, which he would then report back to the Clinton administration.
Without telling the Clinton administration, however, Carter flew to North Korea with a CNN film crew and proceeded to negotiate the framework of an agreement. He then informed the Clinton team after the fact, with little warning, that he was about to go on CNN to announce the deal. This infuriated the Clinton administration, and according to Brinkley’s account, one cabinet member called the former president a “treasonous prick.” To make matters worse, Carter then accepted a dinner invitation from Kim, at which point Carter claimed on camera that the U.S. had stopped pursuing sanctions at the U.N., which was untrue. Nevertheless, once Carter went on television to announce all this, Clinton felt completely boxed in, and he was forced to accept the deal and abandon sanction efforts.
Over time, it became clear that Kim had just used Carter to take the heat off, get economic relief, and buy time while still continuing to enrich uranium in violation of the agreement, which it withdrew from in 2002 after being called out for cheating. Within a few years, North Korea had built a nuclear arsenal. Carter’s effort at freelance diplomacy, in addition to advancing a foreign policy at odds with the administration, squandered a crucial window to stop North Korea from going nuclear. North Korea has since conducted 4 atomic bomb tests and North Korean troops are now assisting Russia in the Ukraine invasion.
IMO, Carter was a mix of good intentions and bad decisions. Reasonable people can disagree about whether he helped or hurt our country.
Edit: This post has been excerpted and then modified from a National Review article by Philip Klein, Dec.29, 2024. The original, longer, article by Mr. Klein may be found here:Original National Review article My modifications included deletions of about >1/3 of the article, including Mr. Klein's account of Jimmy Carter's hostility to Jews and Jewish Americans, which I considered marginally inappropriate for this forum. I also added three original sentences at the end of the post starting with "North Korea has since conducted 4 atomic bomb tests . . . ." and ending with my summary opinion.
Quote: EvenBobQuote: DieterBack when I drove a Bug, we were getting around 25mpg.
That was a late 1960's bug, I believe with a 1500cc engine.
Earlier models may have had smaller engines, but I don't recall any chatter about significantly different fuel consumption - just which ones were perkier to get moving.
link to original post
"Performance in a '57 Bug? The original Beetle was—there's no getting away from this—slow. The 1,600-pound car sold for $1,580 with a sunroof, and the built-to-a-budget specs included a 1,192-cc four-cylinder engine that produced 36 horsepower and 56 pound-feet of torque. The claimed top speed was 68 miles per hour, but the fuel economy was very good at 32 miles per gallon."
I got 40, oh well. 1200cc of solid power.
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If anyone measured more than 30 mpg in a ‘57 beetle they were aided by a tailwind or downhill. Don’t get me wrong, I love those cars. My father had a ‘65 and my first car was a ‘68. They were badly under powered but they were a pleasure to drive. The beauty was in the absolute simplicity of design. It might be surprising to some but they were a beast in snow and mud. Rear engine and rear wheel drive gave them great traction.
Quote: DieterBack when I drove a Bug, we were getting around 25mpg.
That was a late 1960's bug, I believe with a 1500cc engine.
Earlier models may have had smaller engines, but I don't recall any chatter about significantly different fuel consumption - just which ones were perkier to get moving.
link to original post
I never had the Beetle but did have a Type III squareback wagon and a 411 wagon. They were quite popular among working men because of their cargo capacity. The 411 shared an engine with the Porsche 914 and wasn't unreasonably slow. Fuel efficiency was in the low 20s for both.
Quote: gordonm888Carter’s true legacy is one of economic misery at home and embarrassment on the world stage. He left the country in its weakest position of the post–World War II era. After being booted out of office in landslide fashion, the self-described “citizen of the world” spent the rest of his life meddling in U.S. foreign policy and working against the United States and its allies in a manner that could that some people described as treasonous. His obsessive hatred of Israel, and pompous belief that only he could forge Middle East peace, led him to befriend terrorists and lash out at American Jews who criticized him.
In 1980, Carter not only lost 489 electoral votes to 49, but he got trounced in the popular vote —.getting only about 41%. Carter, who is remembered for carrying his own luggage as president, tried to present himself as humble. But somebody actually humble would have taken the hint by the magnitude of his defeat. The real Jimmy Carter was stubborn and arrogant. He had plans for a second term, and he wanted to see them through despite the overwhelming rejection by the American people. So instead of stepping away, he spent the rest of his life simply pretending that he was still president and pursuing foreign policy goals even when it meant undermining the actual president.
In his book The Unfinished PresidencyDouglas Brinkley gave an account of Carter’s behavior in the run-up to the 1990–91 Persian Gulf conflict.
Concerned by the looming threat of war after Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait, Carter pulled out all the stops — and then some — to try to thwart the president, George H. W. Bush. Carter’s efforts started off within the realm of acceptable opposition for a former president. He wrote op-eds, hosted conferences, gave speeches — all urging peace talks as an alternative to repelling Saddam with the use of military force.
When that failed, he took things to an extraordinary level. Carter wrote a letter to the leaders of every country on the U.N. Security Council, as well as a dozen other world leaders, Brinkley recounted, making “a direct appeal to hold ‘good faith’ negotiations with Saddam Hussein before entering upon a war. Carter implied that mature nations should not act like lemmings, blindly following George Bush’s inflammatory ‘line in the sand rhetoric.’”
As if this weren’t enough, on January 10, 1991 — just five days before a deadline that had been set for Saddam to withdraw — Carter wrote to key Arab leaders urging them to abandon their support for the U.S., undermining months of careful diplomacy by the Bush administration. “You may have to forego approval from the White House, but you will find the French, Soviets and others fully supportive,” Carter advised them.
It is one thing for a former president to express opposition to a policy of the sitting president, but by actively working to get foreign leaders to withdraw support for the U.S. days before troops were to be in the cross fire, Carter was taking actions that were closer to treason than they were to legitimate peace activism.
Carter’s meddling was not limited to the first Iraq War or to Republican administrations. In 1994, there was a standoff between the U.S., its allies, and North Korea over the communist country’s nuclear program. The U.S. was floating the idea of sanctions at the United Nations. Over the years, Carter had received multiple invitations to visit North Korea from Kim Il-sung and was eager to fly over and defuse the situation with an ultimate goal of convening a North–South peace summit and unifying the peninsula. Begrudgingly, the Clinton administration agreed to let Carter meet with Kim as long as Carter made clear that he was a private citizen and that he was merely gathering information on the North Korean perspective, which he would then report back to the Clinton administration.
Without telling the Clinton administration, however, Carter flew to North Korea with a CNN film crew and proceeded to negotiate the framework of an agreement. He then informed the Clinton team after the fact, with little warning, that he was about to go on CNN to announce the deal. This infuriated the Clinton administration, and according to Brinkley’s account, one cabinet member called the former president a “treasonous prick.” To make matters worse, Carter then accepted a dinner invitation from Kim, at which point Carter claimed on camera that the U.S. had stopped pursuing sanctions at the U.N., which was untrue. Nevertheless, once Carter went on television to announce all this, Clinton felt completely boxed in, and he was forced to accept the deal and abandon sanction efforts.
Over time, it became clear that Kim had just used Carter to take the heat off, get economic relief, and buy time while still continuing to enrich uranium in violation of the agreement, which it withdrew from in 2002 after being called out for cheating. Within a few years, North Korea had built a nuclear arsenal. Carter’s effort at freelance diplomacy, in addition to advancing a foreign policy at odds with the administration, squandered a crucial window to stop North Korea from going nuclear. North Korea has since conducted 4 atomic bomb tests and North Korean troops are now assisting Russia in the Ukraine invasion.
IMO, Carter was a mix of good intentions and bad decisions. Reasonable people can disagree about whether he helped or hurt our country.
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Thank you.
Quote: gordonm888Carter’s true legacy is one of economic misery at home and embarrassment on the world stage. He left the country in its weakest position of the post–World War II era. After being booted out of office in landslide fashion, the self-described “citizen of the world” spent the rest of his life meddling in U.S. foreign policy and working against the United States and its allies in a manner that could that some people described as treasonous. His obsessive hatred of Israel, and pompous belief that only he could forge Middle East peace, led him to befriend terrorists and lash out at American Jews who criticized him.
It's been so long I forgotten how anti-Semitic Jimmy Carter was. Thanks for reminding me.
Quote: gordonm888In 1980, Carter not only lost 489 electoral votes to 49, but he got trounced in the popular vote —.getting only about 41%. Carter, who is remembered for carrying his own luggage as president, tried to present himself as humble. But somebody actually humble would have taken the hint by the magnitude of his defeat. The real Jimmy Carter was stubborn and arrogant. He had plans for a second term, and he wanted to see them through despite the overwhelming rejection by the American people. So instead of stepping away, he spent the rest of his life simply pretending that he was still president and pursuing foreign policy goals even when it meant undermining the actual president.
I saw a picture of Carter the other day and felt instant intense dislike for the guy. I had forgotten what an arrogant jerk was. He always considered himself the smartest person in the room and losing so badly to Ronald Reagan was a huge blow to his enormous ego. This is why he was such a micromanager because he didn't think anybody was smart enough to make the decisions except him. As far as being humble, people forget he was the only president in history to walk the entire way down Pennsylvania Avenue on inauguration day, grinning and waving at the crowd. His enormous ego wanted to soak in all the adoration for as long as possible. It had been so long I had forgotten what an enormous jerk he was and how glad I was to see him leave office. It was hilarious that his hillbilly redneck little brother Billy Carter was such an embarrassment to him all through his presidency. That somebody as brilliant as him could have somebody as buffoonish as Billy for a brother. Whereas Jimmy was valedictorian of his high school class his brother Billy was dead last in his. Billy Carter was an out of control alcoholic and had been for decades and his drinking only got worse after Jimmy was elected and he started making anti-semitic comments because he and Jimmy didn't like the Jews. Of course this always made it into the Press and was a constant problem for the president. But he had no control over Billy whatsoever, much to his dismay.
https://www.nytimes.com/1976/12/06/archives/his-casual-campaign-for-mayor-masks-a-serious-side-to-billy-carter.html
“He's smart, smart, smart, which is where a lot of folks get fooled.”
Billy's mother, Lillian Carter, says he is “a good, bright boy who made more A's in school than Jimmy and now watches over me.” She adds, “He can hold his own. Don't get taken.”
Quote: gordonm888Carter’s true legacy is one of economic misery at home and embarrassment on the world stage. He left the country in its weakest position of the post–World War II era. After being booted out of office in landslide fashion, the self-described “citizen of the world” spent the rest of his life meddling in U.S. foreign policy and working against the United States and its allies in a manner that could that some people described as treasonous. His obsessive hatred of Israel, and pompous belief that only he could forge Middle East peace, led him to befriend terrorists and lash out at American Jews who criticized him.
In 1980, Carter not only lost 489 electoral votes to 49, but he got trounced in the popular vote —.getting only about 41%. Carter, who is remembered for carrying his own luggage as president, tried to present himself as humble. But somebody actually humble would have taken the hint by the magnitude of his defeat. The real Jimmy Carter was stubborn and arrogant. He had plans for a second term, and he wanted to see them through despite the overwhelming rejection by the American people. So instead of stepping away, he spent the rest of his life simply pretending that he was still president and pursuing foreign policy goals even when it meant undermining the actual president.
In his book The Unfinished PresidencyDouglas Brinkley gave an account of Carter’s behavior in the run-up to the 1990–91 Persian Gulf conflict.
Concerned by the looming threat of war after Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait, Carter pulled out all the stops — and then some — to try to thwart the president, George H. W. Bush. Carter’s efforts started off within the realm of acceptable opposition for a former president. He wrote op-eds, hosted conferences, gave speeches — all urging peace talks as an alternative to repelling Saddam with the use of military force.
When that failed, he took things to an extraordinary level. Carter wrote a letter to the leaders of every country on the U.N. Security Council, as well as a dozen other world leaders, Brinkley recounted, making “a direct appeal to hold ‘good faith’ negotiations with Saddam Hussein before entering upon a war. Carter implied that mature nations should not act like lemmings, blindly following George Bush’s inflammatory ‘line in the sand rhetoric.’”
As if this weren’t enough, on January 10, 1991 — just five days before a deadline that had been set for Saddam to withdraw — Carter wrote to key Arab leaders urging them to abandon their support for the U.S., undermining months of careful diplomacy by the Bush administration. “You may have to forego approval from the White House, but you will find the French, Soviets and others fully supportive,” Carter advised them.
It is one thing for a former president to express opposition to a policy of the sitting president, but by actively working to get foreign leaders to withdraw support for the U.S. days before troops were to be in the cross fire, Carter was taking actions that were closer to treason than they were to legitimate peace activism.
Carter’s meddling was not limited to the first Iraq War or to Republican administrations. In 1994, there was a standoff between the U.S., its allies, and North Korea over the communist country’s nuclear program. The U.S. was floating the idea of sanctions at the United Nations. Over the years, Carter had received multiple invitations to visit North Korea from Kim Il-sung and was eager to fly over and defuse the situation with an ultimate goal of convening a North–South peace summit and unifying the peninsula. Begrudgingly, the Clinton administration agreed to let Carter meet with Kim as long as Carter made clear that he was a private citizen and that he was merely gathering information on the North Korean perspective, which he would then report back to the Clinton administration.
Without telling the Clinton administration, however, Carter flew to North Korea with a CNN film crew and proceeded to negotiate the framework of an agreement. He then informed the Clinton team after the fact, with little warning, that he was about to go on CNN to announce the deal. This infuriated the Clinton administration, and according to Brinkley’s account, one cabinet member called the former president a “treasonous prick.” To make matters worse, Carter then accepted a dinner invitation from Kim, at which point Carter claimed on camera that the U.S. had stopped pursuing sanctions at the U.N., which was untrue. Nevertheless, once Carter went on television to announce all this, Clinton felt completely boxed in, and he was forced to accept the deal and abandon sanction efforts.
Over time, it became clear that Kim had just used Carter to take the heat off, get economic relief, and buy time while still continuing to enrich uranium in violation of the agreement, which it withdrew from in 2002 after being called out for cheating. Within a few years, North Korea had built a nuclear arsenal. Carter’s effort at freelance diplomacy, in addition to advancing a foreign policy at odds with the administration, squandered a crucial window to stop North Korea from going nuclear. North Korea has since conducted 4 atomic bomb tests and North Korean troops are now assisting Russia in the Ukraine invasion.
IMO, Carter was a mix of good intentions and bad decisions. Reasonable people can disagree about whether he helped or hurt our country.
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May we respond to this without getting tagged with political postings?
Quote: GenoDRPhQuote: gordonm888Carter’s true legacy is one of economic misery at home and embarrassment on the world stage. He left the country in its weakest position of the post–World War II era. After being booted out of office in landslide fashion, the self-described “citizen of the world” spent the rest of his life meddling in U.S. foreign policy and working against the United States and its allies in a manner that could that some people described as treasonous. His obsessive hatred of Israel, and pompous belief that only he could forge Middle East peace, led him to befriend terrorists and lash out at American Jews who criticized him.
In 1980, Carter not only lost 489 electoral votes to 49, but he got trounced in the popular vote —.getting only about 41%. Carter, who is remembered for carrying his own luggage as president, tried to present himself as humble. But somebody actually humble would have taken the hint by the magnitude of his defeat. The real Jimmy Carter was stubborn and arrogant. He had plans for a second term, and he wanted to see them through despite the overwhelming rejection by the American people. So instead of stepping away, he spent the rest of his life simply pretending that he was still president and pursuing foreign policy goals even when it meant undermining the actual president.
In his book The Unfinished PresidencyDouglas Brinkley gave an account of Carter’s behavior in the run-up to the 1990–91 Persian Gulf conflict.
Concerned by the looming threat of war after Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait, Carter pulled out all the stops — and then some — to try to thwart the president, George H. W. Bush. Carter’s efforts started off within the realm of acceptable opposition for a former president. He wrote op-eds, hosted conferences, gave speeches — all urging peace talks as an alternative to repelling Saddam with the use of military force.
When that failed, he took things to an extraordinary level. Carter wrote a letter to the leaders of every country on the U.N. Security Council, as well as a dozen other world leaders, Brinkley recounted, making “a direct appeal to hold ‘good faith’ negotiations with Saddam Hussein before entering upon a war. Carter implied that mature nations should not act like lemmings, blindly following George Bush’s inflammatory ‘line in the sand rhetoric.’”
As if this weren’t enough, on January 10, 1991 — just five days before a deadline that had been set for Saddam to withdraw — Carter wrote to key Arab leaders urging them to abandon their support for the U.S., undermining months of careful diplomacy by the Bush administration. “You may have to forego approval from the White House, but you will find the French, Soviets and others fully supportive,” Carter advised them.
It is one thing for a former president to express opposition to a policy of the sitting president, but by actively working to get foreign leaders to withdraw support for the U.S. days before troops were to be in the cross fire, Carter was taking actions that were closer to treason than they were to legitimate peace activism.
Carter’s meddling was not limited to the first Iraq War or to Republican administrations. In 1994, there was a standoff between the U.S., its allies, and North Korea over the communist country’s nuclear program. The U.S. was floating the idea of sanctions at the United Nations. Over the years, Carter had received multiple invitations to visit North Korea from Kim Il-sung and was eager to fly over and defuse the situation with an ultimate goal of convening a North–South peace summit and unifying the peninsula. Begrudgingly, the Clinton administration agreed to let Carter meet with Kim as long as Carter made clear that he was a private citizen and that he was merely gathering information on the North Korean perspective, which he would then report back to the Clinton administration.
Without telling the Clinton administration, however, Carter flew to North Korea with a CNN film crew and proceeded to negotiate the framework of an agreement. He then informed the Clinton team after the fact, with little warning, that he was about to go on CNN to announce the deal. This infuriated the Clinton administration, and according to Brinkley’s account, one cabinet member called the former president a “treasonous prick.” To make matters worse, Carter then accepted a dinner invitation from Kim, at which point Carter claimed on camera that the U.S. had stopped pursuing sanctions at the U.N., which was untrue. Nevertheless, once Carter went on television to announce all this, Clinton felt completely boxed in, and he was forced to accept the deal and abandon sanction efforts.
Over time, it became clear that Kim had just used Carter to take the heat off, get economic relief, and buy time while still continuing to enrich uranium in violation of the agreement, which it withdrew from in 2002 after being called out for cheating. Within a few years, North Korea had built a nuclear arsenal. Carter’s effort at freelance diplomacy, in addition to advancing a foreign policy at odds with the administration, squandered a crucial window to stop North Korea from going nuclear. North Korea has since conducted 4 atomic bomb tests and North Korean troops are now assisting Russia in the Ukraine invasion.
IMO, Carter was a mix of good intentions and bad decisions. Reasonable people can disagree about whether he helped or hurt our country.
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May we respond to this without getting tagged with political postings?
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Why bother? Do you think it will change any of their opinions?
Quote: GenoDRPhQuote: gordonm888Carter’s true legacy is one of economic misery at home and embarrassment on the world stage. He left the country in its weakest position of the post–World War II era. After being booted out of office in landslide fashion, the self-described “citizen of the world” spent the rest of his life meddling in U.S. foreign policy and working against the United States and its allies in a manner that could that some people described as treasonous. His obsessive hatred of Israel, and pompous belief that only he could forge Middle East peace, led him to befriend terrorists and lash out at American Jews who criticized him.
In 1980, Carter not only lost 489 electoral votes to 49, but he got trounced in the popular vote —.getting only about 41%. Carter, who is remembered for carrying his own luggage as president, tried to present himself as humble. But somebody actually humble would have taken the hint by the magnitude of his defeat. The real Jimmy Carter was stubborn and arrogant. He had plans for a second term, and he wanted to see them through despite the overwhelming rejection by the American people. So instead of stepping away, he spent the rest of his life simply pretending that he was still president and pursuing foreign policy goals even when it meant undermining the actual president.
In his book The Unfinished PresidencyDouglas Brinkley gave an account of Carter’s behavior in the run-up to the 1990–91 Persian Gulf conflict.
Concerned by the looming threat of war after Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait, Carter pulled out all the stops — and then some — to try to thwart the president, George H. W. Bush. Carter’s efforts started off within the realm of acceptable opposition for a former president. He wrote op-eds, hosted conferences, gave speeches — all urging peace talks as an alternative to repelling Saddam with the use of military force.
When that failed, he took things to an extraordinary level. Carter wrote a letter to the leaders of every country on the U.N. Security Council, as well as a dozen other world leaders, Brinkley recounted, making “a direct appeal to hold ‘good faith’ negotiations with Saddam Hussein before entering upon a war. Carter implied that mature nations should not act like lemmings, blindly following George Bush’s inflammatory ‘line in the sand rhetoric.’”
As if this weren’t enough, on January 10, 1991 — just five days before a deadline that had been set for Saddam to withdraw — Carter wrote to key Arab leaders urging them to abandon their support for the U.S., undermining months of careful diplomacy by the Bush administration. “You may have to forego approval from the White House, but you will find the French, Soviets and others fully supportive,” Carter advised them.
It is one thing for a former president to express opposition to a policy of the sitting president, but by actively working to get foreign leaders to withdraw support for the U.S. days before troops were to be in the cross fire, Carter was taking actions that were closer to treason than they were to legitimate peace activism.
Carter’s meddling was not limited to the first Iraq War or to Republican administrations. In 1994, there was a standoff between the U.S., its allies, and North Korea over the communist country’s nuclear program. The U.S. was floating the idea of sanctions at the United Nations. Over the years, Carter had received multiple invitations to visit North Korea from Kim Il-sung and was eager to fly over and defuse the situation with an ultimate goal of convening a North–South peace summit and unifying the peninsula. Begrudgingly, the Clinton administration agreed to let Carter meet with Kim as long as Carter made clear that he was a private citizen and that he was merely gathering information on the North Korean perspective, which he would then report back to the Clinton administration.
Without telling the Clinton administration, however, Carter flew to North Korea with a CNN film crew and proceeded to negotiate the framework of an agreement. He then informed the Clinton team after the fact, with little warning, that he was about to go on CNN to announce the deal. This infuriated the Clinton administration, and according to Brinkley’s account, one cabinet member called the former president a “treasonous prick.” To make matters worse, Carter then accepted a dinner invitation from Kim, at which point Carter claimed on camera that the U.S. had stopped pursuing sanctions at the U.N., which was untrue. Nevertheless, once Carter went on television to announce all this, Clinton felt completely boxed in, and he was forced to accept the deal and abandon sanction efforts.
Over time, it became clear that Kim had just used Carter to take the heat off, get economic relief, and buy time while still continuing to enrich uranium in violation of the agreement, which it withdrew from in 2002 after being called out for cheating. Within a few years, North Korea had built a nuclear arsenal. Carter’s effort at freelance diplomacy, in addition to advancing a foreign policy at odds with the administration, squandered a crucial window to stop North Korea from going nuclear. North Korea has since conducted 4 atomic bomb tests and North Korean troops are now assisting Russia in the Ukraine invasion.
IMO, Carter was a mix of good intentions and bad decisions. Reasonable people can disagree about whether he helped or hurt our country.
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May we respond to this without getting tagged with political postings?
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Wizard posted above as long as the comments are kept to fifty year old events he is allowing it
Quote: darkozQuote: GenoDRPhQuote: gordonm888Carter’s true legacy is one of economic misery at home and embarrassment on the world stage. He left the country in its weakest position of the post–World War II era. After being booted out of office in landslide fashion, the self-described “citizen of the world” spent the rest of his life meddling in U.S. foreign policy and working against the United States and its allies in a manner that could that some people described as treasonous. His obsessive hatred of Israel, and pompous belief that only he could forge Middle East peace, led him to befriend terrorists and lash out at American Jews who criticized him.
In 1980, Carter not only lost 489 electoral votes to 49, but he got trounced in the popular vote —.getting only about 41%. Carter, who is remembered for carrying his own luggage as president, tried to present himself as humble. But somebody actually humble would have taken the hint by the magnitude of his defeat. The real Jimmy Carter was stubborn and arrogant. He had plans for a second term, and he wanted to see them through despite the overwhelming rejection by the American people. So instead of stepping away, he spent the rest of his life simply pretending that he was still president and pursuing foreign policy goals even when it meant undermining the actual president.
In his book The Unfinished PresidencyDouglas Brinkley gave an account of Carter’s behavior in the run-up to the 1990–91 Persian Gulf conflict.
Concerned by the looming threat of war after Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait, Carter pulled out all the stops — and then some — to try to thwart the president, George H. W. Bush. Carter’s efforts started off within the realm of acceptable opposition for a former president. He wrote op-eds, hosted conferences, gave speeches — all urging peace talks as an alternative to repelling Saddam with the use of military force.
When that failed, he took things to an extraordinary level. Carter wrote a letter to the leaders of every country on the U.N. Security Council, as well as a dozen other world leaders, Brinkley recounted, making “a direct appeal to hold ‘good faith’ negotiations with Saddam Hussein before entering upon a war. Carter implied that mature nations should not act like lemmings, blindly following George Bush’s inflammatory ‘line in the sand rhetoric.’”
As if this weren’t enough, on January 10, 1991 — just five days before a deadline that had been set for Saddam to withdraw — Carter wrote to key Arab leaders urging them to abandon their support for the U.S., undermining months of careful diplomacy by the Bush administration. “You may have to forego approval from the White House, but you will find the French, Soviets and others fully supportive,” Carter advised them.
It is one thing for a former president to express opposition to a policy of the sitting president, but by actively working to get foreign leaders to withdraw support for the U.S. days before troops were to be in the cross fire, Carter was taking actions that were closer to treason than they were to legitimate peace activism.
Carter’s meddling was not limited to the first Iraq War or to Republican administrations. In 1994, there was a standoff between the U.S., its allies, and North Korea over the communist country’s nuclear program. The U.S. was floating the idea of sanctions at the United Nations. Over the years, Carter had received multiple invitations to visit North Korea from Kim Il-sung and was eager to fly over and defuse the situation with an ultimate goal of convening a North–South peace summit and unifying the peninsula. Begrudgingly, the Clinton administration agreed to let Carter meet with Kim as long as Carter made clear that he was a private citizen and that he was merely gathering information on the North Korean perspective, which he would then report back to the Clinton administration.
Without telling the Clinton administration, however, Carter flew to North Korea with a CNN film crew and proceeded to negotiate the framework of an agreement. He then informed the Clinton team after the fact, with little warning, that he was about to go on CNN to announce the deal. This infuriated the Clinton administration, and according to Brinkley’s account, one cabinet member called the former president a “treasonous prick.” To make matters worse, Carter then accepted a dinner invitation from Kim, at which point Carter claimed on camera that the U.S. had stopped pursuing sanctions at the U.N., which was untrue. Nevertheless, once Carter went on television to announce all this, Clinton felt completely boxed in, and he was forced to accept the deal and abandon sanction efforts.
Over time, it became clear that Kim had just used Carter to take the heat off, get economic relief, and buy time while still continuing to enrich uranium in violation of the agreement, which it withdrew from in 2002 after being called out for cheating. Within a few years, North Korea had built a nuclear arsenal. Carter’s effort at freelance diplomacy, in addition to advancing a foreign policy at odds with the administration, squandered a crucial window to stop North Korea from going nuclear. North Korea has since conducted 4 atomic bomb tests and North Korean troops are now assisting Russia in the Ukraine invasion.
IMO, Carter was a mix of good intentions and bad decisions. Reasonable people can disagree about whether he helped or hurt our country.
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May we respond to this without getting tagged with political postings?
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Wizard posted above as long as the comments are kept to fifty year old events he is allowing it
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Gordon's post touched on more contemporary events. But I'm just going to drop it.
Quote: rxwineit's a National Review piece. It's not going to be written with a glass half-full perspective. it's going to be a glass half-empty.
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Gordon’s post is entirely verbatim from a National Review article posted with no attribute. Do moderators not respect rule 2 around here?
