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billryan
billryan
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November 8th, 2018 at 10:53:31 AM permalink
We managed to go a whole eleven days between mass shootings.
Twelve people killed in another shooting. Fourth mass shooting in four weeks.
Unlike most shooters, this one had combat training.
Carry on.
It's what you do and not what you say If you're not part of the future then get out of the way
MaxPen
MaxPen
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SanchoPanzaRSBoz
November 8th, 2018 at 11:00:52 AM permalink
If more people were armed in public these incidents wouldn't be so deadly.
darkoz
darkoz
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tringlomane
November 8th, 2018 at 12:08:29 PM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

If more people were armed in public these incidents wouldn't be so deadly.



What is that based?

Your imagination?
RonC
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tringlomaneontariodealer
November 8th, 2018 at 12:20:23 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

What is that based?

Your imagination?



Armed and trained individuals arrived on the scene. They went after the shooter. One of them died. They very likely kept the shooter from further killings and he went into an office and ended his life (according to current reports). Had they not started shooting at him, he would have been able to keep firing at the unarmed people in the building.

It seems to me that his intent was to die during or after killing people. He was too much of a pussy to die alone or we would likely have never heard of him.

He brought dishonor to his service with his actions. PTSD is horrible, but it is not an excuse for violent actions like this. It doesn't leave you unable to know what is right or wrong. The act of taking a weapon and planning an action like this aren't "instant" or "spontaneous"--they are planned and calculated.

He died a murderer. We should never utter his name.

I favor there being more armed and trained people around. The other side of this is that armed people and alcohol use do not go together.
Last edited by: RonC on Nov 8, 2018
Face
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Face
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AZDuffmanEvenBob
November 8th, 2018 at 12:28:24 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

What is that based?

Your imagination?



Perhaps it's critical thinking after reviewing the facts.

Fact: 95% of these types of shootings happen in gun free zones. billryan will be along shortly to call me a liar again because... reasons, but soft targets are easy targets. I will point out that an alcohol serving bar, such as the one where this took place, is just such a gun free zone, unless you want to argue that Kommiefornia is somehow a bastion of gun rights that allows guns in bars despite it being illegal pretty much nationwide.

Fact: It is estimated that 500,000 to 3,000,000 defensive uses of firearms occur every single year, the wide difference being both what one considers "defensive use", as well as a margin of error, which you will have when you survey but 4 states and try to extrapolate over 50.

Fact: You hear of the mass shooting where citizens rose up with weapons and the shooter still got his mass? When citizens are armed and someone tries duck hunting, you get stories like the dad in McDonalds, the good ol boy at church, or the old man at the internet café.

This all of course does not mean definitively that Max is correct. But his determination comes from something a lot thicker than imagination.
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
MaxPen
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RogerKintRS
November 8th, 2018 at 12:49:01 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

What is that based?

Your imagination?



You keep imagining the police are there to protect you. Much less, available when you need them. Also, good luck stopping a trained armed individual from further killing with safe space thoughts.
darkoz
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tringlomane
November 8th, 2018 at 12:57:30 PM permalink
Quote: Face

Perhaps it's critical thinking after reviewing the facts.

Fact: 95% of these types of shootings happen in gun free zones. billryan will be along shortly to call me a liar again because... reasons, but soft targets are easy targets. I will point out that an alcohol serving bar, such as the one where this took place, is just such a gun free zone, unless you want to argue that Kommiefornia is somehow a bastion of gun rights that allows guns in bars despite it being illegal pretty much nationwide.

Fact: It is estimated that 500,000 to 3,000,000 defensive uses of firearms occur every single year, the wide difference being both what one considers "defensive use", as well as a margin of error, which you will have when you survey but 4 states and try to extrapolate over 50.

Fact: You hear of the mass shooting where citizens rose up with weapons and the shooter still got his mass? When citizens are armed and someone tries duck hunting, you get stories like the dad in McDonalds, the good ol boy at church, or the old man at the internet café.

This all of course does not mean definitively that Max is correct. But his determination comes from something a lot thicker than imagination.



The argument isnt that more people armed will allow them to protect themselves in these situations

The argument is that more people armed will result in more mass shootings and more gun violence

Btw, the gunman here like in many instances purchased the gun legally

Legalization of gun purchases does not seem to be stopping gun violence

One can only wonder at how many fistfights in bars would have ended up in shootouts if they had all been armed like MaxPen suggests
MaxPen
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November 8th, 2018 at 1:03:30 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

The argument isnt that more people armed will allow them to protect themselves in these situations

The argument is that more people armed will result in more mass shootings and more gun violence

Btw, the gunman here like in many instances purchased the gun legally

Legalization of gun purchases does not seem to be stopping gun violence

One can only wonder at how many fistfights in bars would have ended up in shootouts if they had all been armed like MaxPen suggests



An armed society is a polite society for the most part. Puts everyone on a level playing field. I would bet that this guy was on SSRI's for sure. The VA loves prescribing them. Some serious study needs to be done regarding their usage. This was a guy who was to much of a coward to die alone.
billryan
billryan
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November 8th, 2018 at 1:11:05 PM permalink
Quote: Face

Perhaps it's critical thinking after reviewing the facts.

Fact: 95% of these types of shootings happen in gun free zones. billryan will be along shortly to call me a liar again because... reasons, but soft targets are easy targets. I will point out that an alcohol serving bar, such as the one where this took place, is just such a gun free zone, unless you want to argue that Kommiefornia is somehow a bastion of gun rights that allows guns in bars despite it being illegal pretty much nationwide.

Fact: It is estimated that 500,000 to 3,000,000 defensive uses of firearms occur every single year, the wide difference being both what one considers "defensive use", as well as a margin of error, which you will have when you survey but 4 states and try to extrapolate over 50.

Fact: You hear of the mass shooting where citizens rose up with weapons and the shooter still got his mass? When citizens are armed and someone tries duck hunting, you get stories like the dad in McDonalds, the good ol boy at church, or the old man at the internet café.

This all of course does not mean definitively that Max is correct. But his determination comes from something a lot thicker than imagination.




500,000 to 3,000,000 a year, eh?
That's up to ten thousand a day no?
How about posting ten from any given day. Surely one thousandth of such deeds gets reported.
Those statistics indicate there are multiple cases of defensive gun use for each crime committed with a gun. 1 Most studies put the number of gun crimes at about 300,000 per. So, either there are multiple defensive gun uses for every gun crime or something is wrong.
Your numbers are off, again.
Last edited by: billryan on Nov 8, 2018
It's what you do and not what you say If you're not part of the future then get out of the way
darkoz
darkoz
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November 8th, 2018 at 1:27:36 PM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

An armed society is a polite society for the most part. Puts everyone on a level playing field. I would bet that this guy was on SSRI's for sure. The VA loves prescribing them. Some serious study needs to be done regarding their usage. This was a guy who was to much of a coward to die alone.



Yes the wild west is known mostly for being polite society

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