Forum Politics

Quote: billryan

Hispanic is not a race. There are plenty of white Puerto Ricans. Head to Moca or Corazal and you will find blonde haired descents of the Germans who settled there in the early 1900s.

Who cares? I still don't think the event in question had any inherent racial motivation. Not that it matters, but there is a picture of Obregon on one of those articles and, "Black," certainly wouldn't be my first guess anyway.

Torres did say, "Black," when giving the description, though, and people flipped about that. Why? I'm usually going to lead with what color a person is, even if that color is white. Height, weight, skin color, hair color, eye color, no?

Quote: Mission146

Torres, who says her dad is from Puerto Rico, at a minimum, is half-Hispanic.

Of course, "Half-White, Half-Hispanic Woman," is not going to generate nearly as much white hysteria for the SJW movement, now is it?

I cant begin to tell you how much the media pissed me off with their race play on the Trayvon Martin situation. They nearly always described him as white to make it more sensational.

I LOATHE the media.

Billy, the media will routinely describe Hispanics either as that or as Latino REGARDLESS of the complex of their skin depending on what story the they want to weave. However if it is a black person and they are lighter skinned, you can be damned sure they will describe them as white.

Quote: VCUSkyhawk

I cant begin to tell you how much the media pissed me off with their race play on the Trayvon Martin situation. They nearly always described him as white to make it more sensational.

I LOATHE the media.

Thank you!

Honestly, if it hadn't been for that idiot who wanted to throw the words, "And possibly killed," out there, I probably would have been annoyed...but not enough to post about this one.

Everyone, please read the story below if you like.

(My fiance' can attest to this, and I will reveal the name of the business if I must. I kind of don't want to because homeboy might have just been having a bad day.)

THE STORY:

This happened a few years back before I got a newer and better running car.

Anyway, I had a car with a tendency to stall (I think the head gasket was going) anytime it was in heavy traffic for a prolonged period of time. I planned my routes accordingly, but I hit some unexpected inner-city traffic due to an accident.

Needless to say, the car stalled out. I threw it into neutral (within a half mile of my destination, damn it!) and guided it into a parking lot of some business.

Anyway, I'm white and some white guy comes out yelling at me that I can't have my car there. I initially calmly explain to him that the car has stalled out, and if I let it cool down for about fifteen minutes, I'll be able to get it out of there.

He freaks out and starts yelling at me about how he doesn't want me leaving my car there if it doesn't start back up and that I should call a tow truck immediately. I counter that, even if it doesn't start back up, I'm not just going to leave it there. I tell him that I'll call a tow truck if it goes a half hour without starting.

At this point, the guy starts yelling that I need to call a tow truck right away, then he starts walking towards me in an aggressive fashion.

Not one to back down, I start walking towards him a little bit faster than he's walking and put my fists up. He retreats into his business. I make no effort to follow him in, though I'm sure he locked the door.

With nothing else to do, I popped the hood of the car to assist it in cooling down faster.

Minutes later, the police arrive. They ask me what I'm doing there and I tell them precisely why I'm there and how long I think it will be until the car can start back up. After that, they go in and talk to the guy. The police then come back out and tell me they talked to the guy and I have one hour to get the car off of the property or the police will come back to make me call a tow truck. I said to them, "I only asked him for a half hour, so thanks!" The police then give me their phone number and tell me to call once I have removed the car from his property.

Simply put, the guy was a complete rectal cavity that day. He has the right to ask me to leave the parking lot, of course, but I was clearly there for a very legitimate reason that I initially tried to calmly explain. Even the police basically must have said, "Look, dude, don't be a D***."

Now, imagine if I had been black. He'd be all over the news and the business and he'd be getting called a racist and probably lose his job. He was most certainly a rectal cavity that day, but he was not a racist. We were both, quite clearly, white.

It would be unfair for him to be categorized as a racist and lose his job, rectal cavity or not. But, that's what would happen, and why? Because he can't treat a black person the same way he did, in fact, treat a white person.

And, guess what? That IS racism.

Quote: VCUSkyhawk

I cant begin to tell you how much the media pissed me off with their race play on the Trayvon Martin situation. They nearly always described him as white to make it more sensational.

I LOATHE the media.

You mean when a Mexican (or Hispanic) guy defends himself by shooting a black guy because he's beating him to death......the media shows it off as a white guy murdering a young and unarmed black boy?

Sometimes I enjoy watching "The Young Turks" due to how funny and simply stupid they frequently twist stories. George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin case was no exception.

I'd characterize that as left identarian politics.and in a broader sense, in the sense that we live in a liberal democracy, illiberal.

Above all, I would say it's morally bankrupt.

I have a little theory that politics is a mental illness.

Delving into political theory is ok. It's ok to form opinions and invest money and time in say, a campaign.

However, as politics begin to intermingled with and replace your personal life, morality and psychology, you go nuts.

Have you ever known someone who watched cable news every day and was a happier, better functioning person because of it?

People begin to do things like, focus on the shortcomings of others rather than their own. Project personal frustrations onto the world.

Best example is most contemporary feminists, mras, incels and mgtows.

Are their truths to their arguments? Sure. There are difficulties and "unfairnesses" in being either gender. But why would it be otherwise? Even being a movie star has a downside.

These are people who are bad with women or men, or who have run into rotten people, or who are afraid to live life. So they twist it in to some story about how this is society's fault or the other sex's fault and then become totally consumed by it. Every aspect of life is part if the story how it's everyone else's fault.they watch a sitcom and see some propaganda campaign. Someone flirts with them, or doesn't want to, and they are evil. But when they are nasty and harmful to other people they are righteous.

Quote: Mission146

Who cares? I still don't think the event in question had any inherent racial motivation. Not that it matters, but there is a picture of Obregon on one of those articles and, "Black," certainly wouldn't be my first guess anyway.

Torres did say, "Black," when giving the description, though, and people flipped about that. Why? I'm usually going to lead with what color a person is, even if that color is white. Height, weight, skin color, hair color, eye color, no?

You make a post claiming the woman can't be white as she is half Puerto Rican. When the ignorance of such a statement is pointed out, your reaction is who cares.
An autistic women behaved badly. No idea why this is newsworthy.

Rig.

"Best example is most contemporary feminists, mras, incels and mgtows. "

What are these labels and why are you lumping in feminists? No idea what the rest of those are.

I know hundreds of feminists. There are many millions of them. I am one. Hell, from what I know of you, you are one. It's a simple concept: women want to live their lives with a full range of choices and options, same as men do.

Sure there are people on the fringe of everything who are off-balance, whether they're obsessed about feminism, religion, gambling, Trump, racism, whatever. But they are fringe people.

I guess I'm asking you not to deride the whole idea of equality by stereotyping the idea into a lunatic obsession.

" There are two types of people: humans and women. And when women try to be human, they're accused of trying to be men." (Paraphrased: Simone de Beauvoir)

Edit: Ok, I looked up all those others. I think maybe "radical feminist" might be analogous to these others you're describing. People who see everything through a single lens, and all their interactions are within a narrow and judgmental spectrum. Then it becomes a matter of degree.

Quote: billryan

buy

You make a post claiming the woman can't be white as she is half Puerto Rican. When the ignorance of such a statement is pointed out, your reaction is who cares.
An autistic women behaved badly. No idea why this is newsworthy.

What do you mean, "Can't be white?" I said half-white and half-Hispanic.

I thought Hispanic constituted a race. I'm sorry, but not really, if that offends you. As VCUSkyhawk pointed out, the media seems to describe people as, "Hispanic," or, "Latino," quite often, so I took it to be a race.

I agree that it's not newsworthy, or at least, shouldn't be. That is, unless someone has a motivation to stir up some good old fashioned white panic, which I think is pretty clear.

Babs, you may not want to label yourself as a feminist. At least in modern day, that’s synonymous with butch lesbians and nerdy SJWs who say they want equality but they’re really after women being better than men, only want equality when it’s convenient, and all that stuff. I don’t think I know anyone who fits that description, including the Duxingworth and bbb.

What changes, specifically, do feminists want?

Sorta like the whole BLM thing.

I support equality, but not feminism, because feminism isn’t about equality.

I support black lives (make all the jokes you want, but I do), but not BLM.


If you sign up for a gym membership or go to a club/bar, would you pay the same price as men? When you turned 18, did you sign up for the secret service (whatever it’s called for when you get drafted if there’s a war)? If you were on the Titanic when it was sinking, would you have let men go in front of you into the life boats, or would you have jumped the line in front of all the men? These are rhetorical questions.

Seems you are out of the loop on the contemporary landscape, Babs. Good for your mental health!

Feminism, unlike "conservative" or "libertarian", doesn't really have an orthodox meaning and it is all over the place. So you just kind of have to guess what people mean.

I've heard of "equality feminism," meaning women should be allowed to vote, control their own bodies and hold most jobs. That's from olden times. And women pretty much have all that stuff now. I do think that's good.

Contemporary feminism--meaning the views espoused on all popular feminist blogs, at places like Salon and The Guardian, and among academics and students, is different. These are some of the most common views.

1) Women are an oppressed class of people, including middle class women living in the first world. Life is generally very unfair to women.

2) The primary mechanism for this is patriarchy. While there are more useful accounts, what patriarchy means in practice is that there is a shadowy conspiracy of men across all times and all cultures, with the aim of orchestrating the oppression of women through all sorts of incredibly convoluted means. Every facet of our culture and experience is part of it.

3)Masculinity is toxic. There is a lot of double talk, about how the desire is actually to save men from themselves. It's exactly like how fundies say they don't hate gays, just the sin of homosexuality. Anyway, normal male behavior and thinking is evil.

4) There are very few innate differences between women and men generally. Most especially, men are not good at anything. We might or might not concede that women are better at multi-tasking or have better social skills. But it's impossible that men are, say, better at linear, logical thinking. Or anything else, except lifting heavy objects.

5)Misogyny, the HATRED of women, is extremely common among men and even common among women. It is a staple of our culture. We also live in "a rape culture," meaning that we generally view the crime of rape as being OK, or tolerable and we often take steps to see that it goes unpunished.

So why are there zero great female chess or poker players? Not because these games are based on things men do well. But because the patriarchy has orchestrated things that way. Even though female players get more money and notoriety for equal achievement, um... patriarchy! Toxic masculinity too.

All of this is crazy. It converges even with your traditional feminism. For example, every Dem must pretend to believe that women make 70 cents on the dollar for doing the same work as men. This has been proven false empirically. We all KNOW it's false because we've had jobs and seen first hand that it is false. We also know it is false because, if it were true, companies that hired more women would be automatically more profitable, but that doesn't happen.

But it's a sacred tenet of the faith. So we must pretend it is true.

MRAs are Men's Rights Activists. Incels are involuntary celibates. MGTOWs are men who go their own way (no women).

Each group has at its core, some reasonable observations. For example, being an Incel would be difficult. Women can and do commit domestic violence and almost always get away with it.

However, they also obsess over these things and try to paint this picture of middle-class men in rich countries in the year 2018 being victims of oppression because not every single thing goes their way.

Both schools blame society and the other sex. Both are full of anger and animosity. Neither one is very big on things like how to deal with the world as it is. They want it to be 100% positive, for them at least. And they are very upset that reality differs from their ideals.

They are usually also people who politicize everything and spend way too much time and energy on politics. Feminists invented the idea that "the personal is the political." Which is a great way to make yourself into a miserable wack job.

Quote: Rigondeaux

I'd characterize that as left identarian politics.and in a broader sense, in the sense that we live in a liberal democracy, illiberal.

Above all, I would say it's morally bankrupt.

I have a little theory that politics is a mental illness.

Delving into political theory is ok. It's ok to form opinions and invest money and time in say, a campaign.

However, as politics begin to intermingled with and replace your personal life, morality and psychology, you go nuts.

Have you ever known someone who watched cable news every day and was a happier, better functioning person because of it?

People begin to do things like, focus on the shortcomings of others rather than their own. Project personal frustrations onto the world.

Best example is most contemporary feminists, mras, incels and mgtows.

Are their truths to their arguments? Sure. There are difficulties and "unfairnesses" in being either gender. But why would it be otherwise? Even being a movie star has a downside.

These are people who are bad with women or men, or who have run into rotten people, or who are afraid to live life. So they twist it in to some story about how this is society's fault or the other sex's fault and then become totally consumed by it. Every aspect of life is part if the story how it's everyone else's fault.they watch a sitcom and see some propaganda campaign. Someone flirts with them, or doesn't want to, and they are evil. But when they are nasty and harmful to other people they are righteous.

Sometimes if I’m in a poor mood, I’ll watch “SJWs getting rekt comps” on YouTube. College campuses and whatever-the-newest-fad-to-protest protests seem to be popular locations. Rachel Madcow is good too. Sovereign citizen videos are good too, but that’s a different category of stupid (yet similar).

Quote: RS

If you sign up for a gym membership or go to a club/bar, would you pay the same price as men? When you turned 18, did you sign up for the secret service (whatever it’s called for when you get drafted if there’s a war)? If you were on the Titanic when it was sinking, would you have let men go in front of you into the life boats, or would you have jumped the line in front of all the men? These are rhetorical questions.

I'm not so sure I'd want to be the one taking care of kids by myself while the woman is off to war. I might rather have a head injury after six months of 'brat watch' duty.

As far as the Titanic, men chose to let women go first. It's just as much on men. Men are stronger in general and had a choice to force their way onto boats. Why blame women when men chose not to push them out of the way?

As to money. See below.

30 items women pay more for

Titanic type stuff is essentially about women being more valuable than men, which they are, in general.

Also why men are made for and used for wars.

Turns out women can create and nurture the next generation. In ancient times you needed women to average 5 babies to maintain the population.

You can make do if a bunch of men die. God will decide polygamy is ok. If you lose too many women you are toast.

It's not fair or unfair. It's not a big conspiracy. That's just how it is.

But I'm very glad I don't have to give birth 5 times.

One the other hand one theory is women are programmed to live longer because they can be useful as caregivers while old men just sit around yelling at the tv.

Quote: rxwine

Quote: RS

If you sign up for a gym membership or go to a club/bar, would you pay the same price as men? When you turned 18, did you sign up for the secret service (whatever it’s called for when you get drafted if there’s a war)? If you were on the Titanic when it was sinking, would you have let men go in front of you into the life boats, or would you have jumped the line in front of all the men? These are rhetorical questions.

I'm not so sure I'd want to be the one taking care of kids by myself while the woman is off to war. I might rather have a head injury after six months of 'brat watch' duty.

As far as the Titanic, men chose to let women go first. It's just as much on men. Men are stronger in general and had a choice to force their way onto boats. Why blame women when men chose not to push them out of the way?

As to money. See below.

30 items women pay more for

I bet the reason women pay more for toiletries and clothes is a secret plan to gouge them just because they are women.

I'm sure it is not because they are more demanding in those areas and willing to pay.

I bet the razor companies have a giant profit margin on womens razors due to a decades long price fixing conspiracy driven by a dislike of women.

Here is an amusing video about it by a girl with internalized misogyny.

https://youtu.be/CoCQFJxeHr4

Quote: rxwine

I'm not so sure I'd want to be the one taking care of kids by myself while the woman is off to war. I might rather have a head injury after six months of 'brat watch' duty.

As far as the Titanic, men chose to let women go first. It's just as much on men. Men are stronger in general and had a choice to force their way onto boats. Why blame women when men chose not to push them out of the way?

As to money. See below.

30 items women pay more for

I didn't say those things were problems, but they are definitely in the "feminism when it's convenient" category. (I am salty about the gym memberships and club/bar entry fees, but thankfully I don't partake in either). But I'm also not in favor of "100% equality for all in every scenario" BS, because that's just stupid. I'm just showing the hypocrisy of some/many/most feminists.

First I thought the link was going to be interesting, but it's a total snoozer. Seems like the writer had to come up with some "fill-in" material to get that number up to 30. Half of those things are just filler pieces (as described below). The difference for many items are pennies (LOL at backpacks being 20c more expensive and being on the list....sigh).

Deodorant - 3%
Body Wash - 6%
Dress Pants - 6%
Sweaters - 6%
WHO THE F*** BUYS $57 - $62 JEANS??? All the jeans I have are $200+. Are we talking about infant clothing or something here????
Socks - 3%
BIKES AND SCOOTERS (W.T.F.?????) - 6%
Backpacks - 0.8% YES, that's ZERO POINT EIGHT PERCENT, $25.79 vs $25.99
Crafts Products (okay, now we're getting into some borderline crazy s*** here, really, crafts products???) - 7%
Kid's Jeans (okay, so the above figure of $57 vs $62 jeans was for adults, got it) - 8%
Onesies for babies - 4%
Baby sweaters - 6%
Baby Shirts - 2%
Baby Shoes - 3%
Compression Socks - 4%
TIL personal urinals are a thing. Idk if I like this idea or not, but it's kinda cool.
Adults Diapers - 2%

Then it lists a few things that are cheaper for men.


Anyway, all the stuff for children doesn't really matter if it's more expensive for boys or girls, unless you think the kids are buying that stuff for themselves. Babies aren't buying themselves onesies or sweaters. Their parents are doing that.

Quote: Mission146

What do you mean, "Can't be white?" I said half-white and half-Hispanic.

I thought Hispanic constituted a race. I'm sorry, but not really, if that offends you. As VCUSkyhawk pointed out, the media seems to describe people as, "Hispanic," or, "Latino," quite often, so I took it to be a race.

I agree that it's not newsworthy, or at least, shouldn't be. That is, unless someone has a motivation to stir up some good old fashioned white panic, which I think is pretty clear.

Are you suggesting the OPs purpose was to stir white panic?

Rig has thoughtful posts. On feminism, I think it is fair to have a radical feminism view on some issues.

On the pay equity issue for example it is simplified to "equal pay for equal work!" Most people however will observe that a female counterpart in the same job gets paid the same. What the slogan should actually be is, "equal opportunity for equal effort!". This phrase more accurately reflects the truth on pay equity: women are not given the same opportunities to advance due mostly to patriarchy. Of course one can argue that childbearing and raising takes a portion of opportunities away and to an extent that is true. I think what feminism asks for is for a leg up on men and to be given more opportunity because of the importance of the role of raising children. This of course is anti-capitalist amd why it will never fly. Because the argument exists there will always be that equity gap which won't be resolved until men can rear children which makes them fundamentally a woman anyway.

As for men not being better at anything except lifting heavy things I would say women are not better at anything except flaunting their boobs around. And this is the other reason feminism will never fly. I am being serious here. As long as men and women attract each other there will be qualities that a hetero woman will flaunt vs qualities that a hetero man will flaunt. Women flaunt their bodies. How many men ttreat women better simply because they have nice physical features? How many women have treated men better because they have more money and power? And while my view (and it is my view) is probably anti-feminist, I believe it is a true reflection of most of society. And that it is a good view of we want to keep having babies and furthering our species. Donald Trump certainly doesn't want economic growth via immigration so we had better do it ourselves!!!

That's why I cringe a little bit at #metoo. Of course there is a problem with sexual assault and the meaning of the word "no". But inappropriate sexual advances are subject to a whole pile of context. It's inappropriate I guess if the person. (a) wields power and ,(b) the advance isn't welcome. But since so much of sexual advances is not knowing whether the advance is welcome or not changes the entire rules of dating. Which I guess is fine as long as it yields the same results with women feeling like they always had a choice in the matter. The thing is that the woman (barring rape or assault) always did have a choice. the problem is that exercising that choice in the "no" direction also took away opportunities from women to advance. And I've seen it happen in my workplace where a guy will simply trade a date for more work. It happens all of the time in all workplace settings where the opportunity exists from your local mom-and-pop to McDonald's to the corporate offices of most "liberal" companies like Google or Facebook.

And this is why radical feminism needs to exist. We can't have workplaces that takes opportunities away from women based on appearance or their lack of willingness to screw their way up to the top. Of course that must be balanced by the natural heterosexual attractions that keep our society ticking.

Rig and Mission have made some fine points in regards to modern day feminism. However, for me, to sum up the the movement now a days I just point to the womens march. Not any of the topics mind you, just the attire. How do you expect anybody to take you seriously with a giant vagina hat on your head.

Quote: VCUSkyhawk

Rig and Mission have made some fine points in regards to modern day feminism. However, for me, to sum up the the movement now a days I just point to the womens march. Not any of the topics mind you, just the attire. How do you expect anybody to take you seriously with a giant vagina hat on your head.

Too early in the morning for most of this very useful conversation, but thank you, guys! I very much appreciate what you're saying. I'll continue later with the thoughtful stuff.

As to the women's march, we didn't expect anyone to take a piece of p%&&y grabbing garbage like Trump seriously enough to elect him president. The hat was throwing his comments and his general nasty unfitness for office back in his face, and those who voted for him. It was calling him out. It was meant to be both offensive and a very pointed protest. I would say it worked as a symbol of that.

It was truly astounding, the departure from past candidates disqualified from the presidency, like Gary Hart, Newt Gingrich, or John Edwards, impeached like Bill Clinton, thrown from office like Wilbur Mills, Larry Craig, Mark Foley, Anthony Weiner, and several hundred others, all because of sexual impropriety. But this guy, the slug with the nastiest slime trail ever, gets into office.

The hats were just the start of the backlash. I'm quite sure that a lot of the extreme feminist reaction you're seeing is directly activated by his election and fueled by the continued outrage as more episodes and details come to light.

BBB, say what you will (and I agree with you about how it didnt seem to matter about Trumps past (and current) vile behavior) as a reason for the protest. You can say it was meant to be uncivilized, but it still doesn't negate the fact that to the mainstream public it looked utterly absurd. Every female I talked too (with exception to my hardcore hiliary friends) were embarrassed by the display.

Additionally, I would say that you quite wrong on the timeline as to the increase of this radical feminism.

Quote: Mission146

Obregon might have objected to being made to leave, but she could have done it by saying she was just waiting for an Uber ride and wanted to get out of the rain. What is so difficult about being polite enough to tell someone why you're standing on their property? I'm not saying Torres would have, but I think most people would accept that explanation and then just go back inside.

Basically, everyone wants to make a racial thing out of a black woman being asked to move off of private property. How is this #WhitePrivilege? Do white people also not have to go away or offer an explanation for themselves when asked to leave private property? I believe that we do. In fact, I was asked to leave private property several times when I was a kid, and I'm white.

Heck, I have been asked to leave private property as an adult, and I am white. But the way I see it, there are at least two pieces of a cultural thing going on here.

The first one is Black society as a whole does not have the same respect for private property as White society. Ooooh, I can hear the liberals getting ready to pound their keyboards! But look at it. Blacks are less likely to own their own home, less likely to own even their own car, and more likely to live in public housing. There is a Black cultural thing where if you come into money you are far more expected to help out your family and friends than a White person would. Add it all up and there is more of a feeling that "it's a 'public' space so I can stand there!" mentality. Right after I bought my house some Black kid was standing in front of my garage, I said, "Can I help you?" He asked if he was on my property, I said he was. He left. To his credit, he was polite. But how does one not realize this?

The second issue is too many Blacks have a chip on their shoulder. Not how she said, "I told her I was not going to leave." Right there she puts the other person on massive defense. A normal person would say, "Hey, the rain started pouring and I just called an Uber, is it OK if I shelter under her for a few minutes?"

If you say it like that, the other person will probably let it go assuming you are not blocking the door or otherwise being a genuine issue. But she did not do that. She took the attitude of "how dare you question me!" You pointed out it is about just being polite. But you need to realize that there is far more hate for Whites among Blacks than anyone wants to admit. In my experience, Black females hate Whites more than Black males. Seen it happen more than once.

Simple politeness and respect. I usually see the common thread in any of these "White kills Black" stories that the Black having the same kind of chip on their shoulder escalated a situation that should have been easily solved.

Quote: beachbumbabs

It was truly astounding, the departure from past candidates disqualified from the presidency, like Gary Hart, Newt Gingrich, or John Edwards, impeached like Bill Clinton, thrown from office like Wilbur Mills, Larry Craig, Mark Foley, Anthony Weiner, and several hundred others, all because of sexual impropriety. But this guy, the slug with the nastiest slime trail ever, gets into office.

Don't cry to me. Feminists defended Bill Clinton to the end all because he loved abortion. Check written in the 1990s. Now Feminists upset when it is getting cashed.

Quote:

The hats were just the start of the backlash. I'm quite sure that a lot of the extreme feminist reaction you're seeing is directly activated by his election and fueled by the continued outrage as more episodes and details come to light.

The hats make the women wearing them look like a joke and no non-beta male will take any women wearing or supporting them serious on any issue. Hopefully they keep wearing them.

Quote: boymimbo

Rig has thoughtful posts. On feminism, I think it is fair to have a radical feminism view on some issues.

On the pay equity issue for example it is simplified to "equal pay for equal work!" Most people however will observe that a female counterpart in the same job gets paid the same. What the slogan should actually be is, "equal opportunity for equal effort!". This phrase more accurately reflects the truth on pay equity: women are not given the same opportunities to advance due mostly to patriarchy. Of course one can argue that childbearing and raising takes a portion of opportunities away and to an extent that is true. I think what feminism asks for is for a leg up on men and to be given more opportunity because of the importance of the role of raising children. This of course is anti-capitalist amd why it will never fly. Because the argument exists there will always be that equity gap which won't be resolved until men can rear children which makes them fundamentally a woman anyway.

Here is the thing, if a man takes a few years off work to "raise the kids" he will have an even harder time to re-enter the workforce than a woman will have. I will keep saying it, you can raise kids or have a killer career. You do not get to have both. Life is choices. Feminists, though, look down on women who choose motherhood over career.

Quote:

As for men not being better at anything except lifting heavy things I would say women are not better at anything except flaunting their boobs around. And this is the other reason feminism will never fly.

Men are better at many things. Feminists just want equality for the "fun" things. The reason for the so-called "pay gap" is women not taking the things that pay better. From stupid majors in college to preferring to work in the clerical department of the car dealer vs. sales or service. Their favorite term is no longer "equal pay for equal work" but rather "comparable worth." IOW, equal pay for easier work.

Quote:

That's why I cringe a little bit at #metoo.

#metoo cannot be taken seriously. Same women defended Bill Clinton's sexual harassment. They only get upset if the guy in question is not liberal. Same women also love Hillary, who attacked women who her husband harassed.

Quote:

And this is why radical feminism needs to exist. We can't have workplaces that takes opportunities away from women based on appearance or their lack of willingness to screw their way up to the top. Of course that must be balanced by the natural heterosexual attractions that keep our society ticking.

Men face the same kind of "appearance" issues that women face, it is just not broadcast as much. Men need the right "look" to really advance in management. Need to look professional and serious.

Sexual harassment is a legitimate issue, obviously.

Like every issue, there are hypocrites, people who take it to far and crackpots. Some people get away with extreme cases and others get roasted for minor offenses. That's life.

To waive everything off because of this is to think like a child.

There are many important women's issues. And mens issues too.

Using this as a platform to create a dogma, an alternative account of reality that encompasses our every waking moment, is to go bonkers.

Quote: billryan

Are you suggesting the OPs purpose was to stir white panic?

What? No, I was talking about that one specific news story. It accomplishes nothing other than the vilification of white people for absolutely no reason and detracts from actual cases of discrimination.

In short, it, "Cries wolf," in the worst possible way.

Quote: rxwine

30 items women pay more for

That article is stupid.

The author takes one category, "clothes," and breaks it down into like 12 different items of individual clothing just to fill out the list.

Everything else, the woman has the option to buy the cheaper alternative. No one is forcing a woman to buy "women's" shampoo, or a "women's" razor. It's all marketing.

Quote: boymimbo

This phrase more accurately reflects the truth on pay equity: women are not given the same opportunities to advance due mostly to patriarchy. Of course one can argue that childbearing and raising takes a portion of opportunities away and to an extent that is true. I think what feminism asks for is for a leg up on men and to be given more opportunity because of the importance of the role of raising children. This of course is anti-capitalist amd why it will never fly. Because the argument exists there will always be that equity gap which won't be resolved until men can rear children which makes them fundamentally a woman anyway.

I disagree with the rightness of that perspective for a few different reasons:

Child-raising has value for the family itself as well as for the person who is doing the child raising.

However, the only argument that can be made to the extent that child-rearing is a social necessity is if one wants to argue that the perpetuation of human existence is a worthy goal in and of itself. I argue that it's probably not.

Ergo, raising kids is something that one does for oneself, or one's partner. As long as there is meaningful access to contraception and abortion, then raising kids is and will always be a choice. Going to college is a choice. Getting your ass out of bed in the morning is a choice.

If you make a choice that potentially sacrifices your career, too bad. You don't deserve a handicap for making a choice. Not only is that arguably unfair to men, but it's also unfair to those women who chose to put their careers first over having children.

Quote:

As for men not being better at anything except lifting heavy things I would say women are not better at anything except flaunting their boobs around. And this is the other reason feminism will never fly. I am being serious here.

I agree that modern feminism often tends to ignore physical realities (strength) and biological imperatives. You should have seen the argument between myself and an SJW feminist when McEnroe's comment about Serena was somehow brought up and I defended his statements. I cited historical results of compatable matches as well as top serve speed data to no avail whatsoever.

And, actually, it was her who reframed the argument. She said that Serena would be, "50/50," to beat the top Men's rated tennis player. I told her that not only was her position laughable, but Serena would be positively demoralized if they were playing with the same rules and he was actually trying his hardest.

Importantly, that's a much different statement than saying Serena couldn't beat a man at tennis. I would think any woman who has picked up a tennis racket in the last year could beat me, for example. The only way I would score so much as a point on Serena would be if she double-faulted on a serve. Very unlikely. She could serve at 75% strength and there would be nothing I could do about it...not fast enough to challenge it.

Quote:

That's why I cringe a little bit at #metoo. Of course there is a problem with sexual assault and the meaning of the word "no". But inappropriate sexual advances are subject to a whole pile of context. It's inappropriate I guess if the person. (a) wields power and ,(b) the advance isn't welcome. But since so much of sexual advances is not knowing whether the advance is welcome or not changes the entire rules of dating.

I can't speak for every state, but it's for that reason that Sexual Harassment laws in Ohio require the conduct to be unwanted AND repeated. It's not enough to qualify making an isolated statement, from a legal stance, provided that statement doesn't violate any other laws.

Quote: AZDuffman

The first one is Black society as a whole does not have the same respect for private property as White society. Ooooh, I can hear the liberals getting ready to pound their keyboards! But look at it. Blacks are less likely to own their own home, less likely to own even their own car, and more likely to live in public housing.

Tendency of society to self-replicate. Next?

Also, in terms of equal access to education, black people had a much later start in this country than did white people, particularly in the South.

Quote:

There is a Black cultural thing where if you come into money you are far more expected to help out your family and friends than a White person would.

Like the Bible says those White Evangelical Christians should be doing?

Let me get in on that black culture! Where do I sign up?

Quote:

To his credit, he was polite. But how does one not realize this?

You were polite, he was polite. He left when you asked, I don't see the problem.

Quote:

The second issue is too many Blacks have a chip on their shoulder. Not how she said, "I told her I was not going to leave." Right there she puts the other person on massive defense. A normal person would say, "Hey, the rain started pouring and I just called an Uber, is it OK if I shelter under her for a few minutes?"

I've already agreed with that, though I didn't use the word, "Normal person." I framed it in terms of what the polite answer would have been.

Quote:

You pointed out it is about just being polite. But you need to realize that there is far more hate for Whites among Blacks than anyone wants to admit. In my experience, Black females hate Whites more than Black males. Seen it happen more than once.

Not my experience at all.

Back when I hung out in bars, and I have multiple people (including one from the Forum) who can attest to this, my two favorite bars were places where I would usually be the only white male there.

The only time anybody was ever the least bit rude to me was when I played ten Bad Religion songs in a row on the jukebox. The music of choice was obviously usually Rap and R&B. I only did it on a dare that turned into a $20 bet when one of my friends there said, "You don't have the sack to play ten punk rock songs in a row." I said that not only would I do it, but that they would also all be from the same band!

Of course, he did have to tell two guys that he made a bet to that effect. There were about thirty people in there, but two of them really took exception to that little stunt.

Quote:

Simple politeness and respect. I usually see the common thread in any of these "White kills Black" stories that the Black having the same kind of chip on their shoulder escalated a situation that should have been easily solved.

Politeness and respect are good traits for any person of any race. Plenty of impolite white people, too.

Quote: AZDuffman

Don't cry to me. Feminists defended Bill Clinton to the end all because he loved abortion. Check written in the 1990s. Now Feminists upset when it is getting cashed.

There's a little bit of a subtle difference between, "Grab them by the p****," walking in unexpectedly on nude women in the changing room during Miss USA, hitting on married women and paying porn stars hush money, multiple times, to not reveal multiple affairs than there is having consensual sex with an intern. I believe Lewinsky never claimed it was non-consensual, but I was young, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Quote:

The hats make the women wearing them look like a joke and no non-beta male will take any women wearing or supporting them serious on any issue. Hopefully they keep wearing them.

The funny thing that I've found about this whole Alpha Male/Beta Male dynamic is that the people who subscribe to it would be those who would generally fall into the latter category, if those words had any real meaning to begin with.

We have our sports, some of which I love, don't get me wrong...but in modern and technologically-driven society, being an, "Alpha," to the extent that I will pretend that means anything, is more about what you have going on above your neck than below it.

Quote: AZDuffman

Here is the thing, if a man takes a few years off work to "raise the kids" he will have an even harder time to re-enter the workforce than a woman will have. I will keep saying it, you can raise kids or have a killer career. You do not get to have both. Life is choices. Feminists, though, look down on women who choose motherhood over career.

In an equal society, a man would have no more and no less a difficult time reentering the workforce in the scenario you describe.

Honestly, if you were to ask a family-inclined heterosexual feminist, I'm sure she wouldn't have any problem with the notion of a man staying home during part of a child's formative years. I would also think that she should believe that he should not face any unduly adverse consequences as a result of that decision.

As far as looking down on mothers...If there is a self-described, "Feminist," who has a problem with a woman staying home to take care of her family, then in my view, she's not a feminist at all. Personally, I think feminism should be about equal choice and opportunity. Therefore, a feminist should support any woman in any decision freely made by that woman.

Quote:

Men are better at many things. Feminists just want equality for the "fun" things. The reason for the so-called "pay gap" is women not taking the things that pay better. From stupid majors in college to preferring to work in the clerical department of the car dealer vs. sales or service. Their favorite term is no longer "equal pay for equal work" but rather "comparable worth." IOW, equal pay for easier work.

No. Even if that were true, that's far from the only cause of the pay divide. I'm not going to debate this point with you, though, because I fear it's a lost cause.

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#metoo cannot be taken seriously. Same women defended Bill Clinton's sexual harassment. They only get upset if the guy in question is not liberal. Same women also love Hillary, who attacked women who her husband harassed.

#MeToo both can and cannot be taken seriously. I think it depends on the individual nature and provability of the allegations that a woman is making. I'm not willing to accept as true everything that someone says automatically, and I think anyone who does is quite probably an idiot.

Quote: Rigondeaux

I bet the reason women pay more for toiletries and clothes is a secret plan to gouge them just because they are women.

I'm sure it is not because they are more demanding in those areas and willing to pay.

I bet the razor companies have a giant profit margin on womens razors due to a decades long price fixing conspiracy driven by a dislike of women.

I wonder why tampons/pads are subject to sales tax?

How are they not considered a necessity?

Quote: Mission146

Tendency of society to self-replicate. Next?

Also, in terms of equal access to education, black people had a much later start in this country than did white people, particularly in the South.

I don't get the first part. Neither did I bring up education. But a couple of three things on that part. Why are Black schools so awful? Why do so many Black parents want White kids hanging around the Black schools? We are almost 50 years since bussing and massive desegregation, yet still a huge gap. And why does Wikipedia need to have an article on "Acting White?"

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Like the Bible says those White Evangelical Christians should be doing?

Let me get in on that black culture! Where do I sign up?

Not at all like the Bible says. The Bible is against coveting your neighbor's goods. If you want to sign up, go ahead. Just expect your new friends to expect you to share the wealth if you have a good day at the casino.

Quote:

You were polite, he was polite. He left when you asked, I don't see the problem.

That is because I was using it as an example of how things should work

Quote:

Not my experience at all.

Has been mine. Tried to help a Black Female in a training class. I had worked with that part of the software for a month and needed no training, offered to help the class as the instructor had 18 or so people to help. Girl said she wanted the instructor's help, not mine. Other times unloading at an event, we are carrying a large table. Normal people would step to the side with two guys carrying a heavy load. Two Black females not only do not politely give way, they actually slow down to make our life harder. Another one accused me of "putting the White names on the top and the Black names on the bottom" for warranty service.

Quote:

Politeness and respect are good traits for any person of any race. Plenty of impolite white people, too.

I did not say there weren't. What I said is there are too many Blacks with some kind of chip on their shoulder with a "how dare you question me!" attitude, and that attitude causes things to escalate. Then the media calls the White a "racist."

Quote: Mission146

What? No, I was talking about that one specific news story. It accomplishes nothing other than the vilification of white people for absolutely no reason and detracts from actual cases of discrimination.

In short, it, "Cries wolf," in the worst possible way.

I disagree. I think the story shows the petty abuses blacks and minorities go through on a daily basis. Calling the police because someone is in an apartment doorway avoiding the rain is absurd. I give her a pass as she is autistic, but the whole story is absurd. I'm not sure why you why you felt the need to pass it along. When I pass a dog turd on the sidewalk, I don't pick it up and call attention to it.

Quote: AZDuffman

I don't get the first part. Neither did I bring up education. But a couple of three things on that part. Why are Black schools so awful? Why do so many Black parents want White kids hanging around the Black schools? We are almost 50 years since bussing and massive desegregation, yet still a huge gap. And why does Wikipedia need to have an article on "Acting White?"

Read the facts that you cited again and then read that part of my post again. Do it three or four times, if needed. Once you figure out the point I was trying to make, we can return to that as well as your other questions.

Ignore the education and focus on, "Tendency of society to self-replicate."

Quote:

Not at all like the Bible says. The Bible is against coveting your neighbor's goods. If you want to sign up, go ahead. Just expect your new friends to expect you to share the wealth if you have a good day at the casino.

I am an extremely generous person, so that doesn't bother me at all. I would rather have nothing than have a lot and not be willing to share it. I'm not trying to brag on myself, it's just a fact, I'm extremely generous.

Coveting your neighbor's goods? Yes, true. You were talking about helping out friends and family. Do you really need me to spend the twenty minutes it would take for me to quote fifty, or so, Bible verses to that effect?

Have you ever gotten past the first few verses of Genesis? For my part, I've read the whole damn thing. King James version.

Quote:

That is because I was using it as an example of how things should work.

(Period added)

Okay, so I agree. Being polite is good. Everyone should do it.

Quote:

Has been mine. Tried to help a Black Female in a training class. I had worked with that part of the software for a month and needed no training, offered to help the class as the instructor had 18 or so people to help. Girl said she wanted the instructor's help, not mine. Other times unloading at an event, we are carrying a large table. Normal people would step to the side with two guys carrying a heavy load. Two Black females not only do not politely give way, they actually slow down to make our life harder. Another one accused me of "putting the White names on the top and the Black names on the bottom" for warranty service.

I'm glad that those three individual experiences with a total of four individual people are enough to make general assumptions about some 37M+ people in this country.

I'm not saying every African-American is cool like everyone in those two bars. I'm just saying you have your good and bad people in all races and categories. I think you're more likely to like a person, and to be liked by that person, if you take a second to try to understand where that person is coming from. You may well know where these two bars are at, in fact, some might call it, "The Ghetto." Never had a problem other than those two guys who wanted to kick my ass for that one stunt.

Quote:

I did not say there weren't. What I said is there are too many Blacks with some kind of chip on their shoulder with a "how dare you question me!" attitude, and that attitude causes things to escalate. Then the media calls the White a "racist."

There are too many of everyone with some kind of chip on their shoulders as well as that attitude.

Quote: billryan

I disagree. I think the story shows the petty abuses blacks and minorities go through on a daily basis. Calling the police because someone is in an apartment doorway avoiding the rain is absurd. I give her a pass as she is autistic, but the whole story is absurd. I'm not sure why you why you felt the need to pass it along. When I pass a dog turd on the sidewalk, I don't pick it up and call attention to it.

Being asked to leave private property is a, "Petty abuse?" Did the guy who wanted me to get out of that business's parking lot do a, "Petty abuse," on me when my car stalled out? I'm not black, so why would that happen?

Why did I pass the story along? Why did six or seven websites (at a minimum) pass the story along? Go ask them.

As I've already stated, had that one site not thrown out the ridiculous, "Desperate to see a black woman get arrested, and possibly killed..." I probably would never have mentioned it. That's nothing short of trying to drive up some sort of hysteria, the problem is that it can become an actual serious problem if you get enough people to buy into it.

I think she called the police because she refused to leave, just saying. If she was calling the police, "For being in an apartment doorway," then she could have done that without speaking to her. I think it was the refusal to leave without offering any type of explanation as to what she was doing that was the problem.

I also don't know where you live, but that event occurred in New York City. I'm not one to scare easily, but I can tell you that I would be much more watchful in NYC than I am where I live.

Quote: Mission146

I am an extremely generous person, so that doesn't bother me at all. I would rather have nothing than have a lot and not be willing to share it. I'm not trying to brag on myself, it's just a fact, I'm extremely generous.

Coveting your neighbor's goods? Yes, true. You were talking about helping out friends and family. Do you really need me to spend the twenty minutes it would take for me to quote fifty, or so, Bible verses to that effect?

I am not interested in hearing you quote Bible verses. I am trying to make a point that in Black culture there is a greater expectation for a person to "share the wealth" than in White culture. And that Black culture does not have the same respect for the private property of others as White culture does.

That could be a carryover from politics as I find that Liberals generally have less respect for the property of others than Conservatives do, but I don't think so much.

Quote:

I'm glad that those three individual experiences with a total of four individual people are enough to make general assumptions about some 37M+ people in this country.

I'm not saying every African-American is cool like everyone in those two bars. I'm just saying you have your good and bad people in all races and categories. I think you're more likely to like a person, and to be liked by that person, if you take a second to try to understand where that person is coming from. You may well know where these two bars are at, in fact, some might call it, "The Ghetto." Never had a problem other than those two guys who wanted to kick my ass for that one stunt.



There are too many of everyone with some kind of chip on their shoulders as well as that attitude.

It is not just 3-4 experiences and it is not just me. It is a general pattern I have seen. If two guys are carrying a heavy load and two girls just lollygag in their way I have no interest in "seeing where they are coming from." I just see rude people.

If the two bars are not between the courthouse and where the Nailers play I will have no idea about them. That is about all I know of Wheeling, other than the Casino. I didn't get much out of that six block zone.

Quote: Mission146

Being asked to leave private property is a, "Petty abuse?" Did the guy who wanted me to get out of that business's parking lot do a, "Petty abuse," on me when my car stalled out? I'm not black, so why would that happen?

Why did I pass the story along? Why did six or seven websites (at a minimum) pass the story along? Go ask them.

As I've already stated, had that one site not thrown out the ridiculous, "Desperate to see a black woman get arrested, and possibly killed..." I probably would never have mentioned it. That's nothing short of trying to drive up some sort of hysteria, the problem is that it can become an actual serious problem if you get enough people to buy into it.

I think she called the police because she refused to leave, just saying. If she was calling the police, "For being in an apartment doorway," then she could have done that without speaking to her. I think it was the refusal to leave without offering any type of explanation as to what she was doing that was the problem.

I also don't know where you live, but that event occurred in New York City. I'm not one to scare easily, but I can tell you that I would be much more watchful in NYC than I am where I live.

I lived in NYC until I retired and moved west. It's very common for people to avoid weather in the doorway of apartment buildings. On the rare occasion that I took public rides, I've done it myself. It's not like the woman was trying to sleep or hanging out drinking. She just as easily could have lived or been visiting in the building.
I'm not sure what the law says exactly, but I doubt renting a unit in a building gives a resident authority to eject someone on the rest of the apartment. It's why most upscale units hire doormen to keep the lobby and building safe.

Quote: AZDuffman

That could be a carryover from politics as I find that Liberals generally have less respect for the property of others than Conservatives do, but I don't think so much.

Regardless of color or culture, I think we can both agree that people should be cognizant of applicable laws. And, if not cognizant of those laws, should at least err on the side of doing the thing most likely to be legal.

Unless there is a good reason not to such that the benefits of breaking the law outweigh the risks and penalties associated with being caught.

Quote:

It is not just 3-4 experiences and it is not just me. It is a general pattern I have seen. If two guys are carrying a heavy load and two girls just lollygag in their way I have no interest in "seeing where they are coming from." I just see rude people.

If the two bars are not between the courthouse and where the Nailers play I will have no idea about them. That is about all I know of Wheeling, other than the Casino. I didn't get much out of that six block zone.

I have experienced the same thing as in your first paragraph, but my experience has been that young women (probably not even legal adults yet) are the most likely to just stand there ignoring the situation around them. I honestly really think that's just more out of a general lack of awareness than it is a deliberate thing.

One of them is! The Omega in the building next to the 7-11 on Market Street and up the stairs. You'll almost never see a white dude in there! The other one is on the other side of the courthouse, in East Wheeling.

Quote: billryan

I lived in NYC until I retired and moved west. It's very common for people to avoid weather in the doorway of apartment buildings. On the rare occasion that I took public rides, I've done it myself. It's not like the woman was trying to sleep or hanging out drinking. She just as easily could have lived or been visiting in the building.
I'm not sure what the law says exactly, but I doubt renting a unit in a building gives a resident authority to eject someone on the rest of the apartment. It's why most upscale units hire doormen to keep the lobby and building safe.

At a minimum, Torres claimed that her parents were the owners of the property. I don't know whether or not that is actually true, but if an owner or a representative of the owner asks someone to leave the property, then my understanding is that person is legally required to leave the property...depending on applicable, "Defiant Trespass," or, "Criminal Trespass," laws.

She also claims to have lived her whole life there, so I should think she has a good idea of who does or does not live in the building. Visiting, you could make an argument for visiting.

Again, if visiting, then it is good to say you are visiting someone rather than making an outright refusal to leave without explaining oneself.

It did not appear to be an upscale building whatsoever, but I'm only judging that by the appearance of the entry door. It was very beat up looking and windowless.

I don't understand why it's not enough for you that Torres was rude. I'll stipulate rude. She said that she was rude about it. I just don't see how one can arrive at the conclusion that it was racially motivated.

It's Park Slope. I'm guessing you don't know Brooklyn.
What you seem to be ignoring or glossing over is the woman who challenged her is autistic. Why even attempt to engage an emotionally disturbed person in a discussion.
I lived in my co-op seventeen years and between comings and goings couldn't tell you everyone who lived there. In these days of everyone in Brooklyn seemingly airbnbing , who is to say who lives there or is visiting?
I think her parents own their apartment, not the whole building but that really irrelevant.
She tried to illegally detain both the "trespasser" and the livery driver.

Quote: Mission146

Regardless of color or culture, I think we can both agree that people should be cognizant of applicable laws. And, if not cognizant of those laws, should at least err on the side of doing the thing most likely to be legal.

I am not even talking laws, I am talking general respect. I told the story years ago here, about how I was out with my dad in his antique car. Stopped at a little ice cream place. We were the only car in the lot. 30 feet to park on either side. Woman pulls in and parks right along side and almost opens her door into it. Remember, 30 feet on each side. A normal person would give a buffer, to any other car.

So I told the story here for I forget what thread. The liberals here all said to effect, "TOUGH, you do not get a buffer when you park a car." Or for a larger scale at how much mess is left over after liberal rallies vs. conservative ones. Look at the mess OWS made vs. Tea Party rallies. It is hard to measure, but I keep seeing it.

Quote:

I have experienced the same thing as in your first paragraph, but my experience has been that young women (probably not even legal adults yet) are the most likely to just stand there ignoring the situation around them. I honestly really think that's just more out of a general lack of awareness than it is a deliberate thing.

Call it either way, it is still a lack of civil behavior. Call it younger women have never had to unload a load. There is still an attitude there.

Quote:

One of them is! The Omega in the building next to the 7-11 on Market Street and up the stairs. You'll almost never see a white dude in there! The other one is on the other side of the courthouse, in East Wheeling.

Probably walked by it many times then. There were not many places I felt like having lunch there, and I most of my bar hanging days are behind me. I gave the local coffee place a try once but had to go to SBUX as the locals took just too much time to make a simple iced coffee.

Quote: AZDuffman

I am not even talking laws, I am talking general respect. I told the story years ago here, about how I was out with my dad in his antique car. Stopped at a little ice cream place. We were the only car in the lot. 30 feet to park on either side. Woman pulls in and parks right along side and almost opens her door into it. Remember, 30 feet on each side. A normal person would give a buffer, to any other car.

So I told the story here for I forget what thread. The liberals here all said to effect, "TOUGH, you do not get a buffer when you park a car." .

This made me chuckle. I fail to see how this is a conservative/liberal issue.

Comparing a six week campout to an afternoon rally. How unfair and unbalanced can one be?
It seems the race is on.

When I had my Tesla, I'd park it in a far corner where others don't park. I'd inconvenience myself rather than expect others to make an accommodation for me. It's how I was raised.
In an empty parking lot, you chose a prime spot and don't want anyone near you.

Quote: billryan

It's Park Slope. I'm guessing you don't know Brooklyn.
What you seem to be ignoring or glossing over is the woman who challenged her is autistic. Why even attempt to engage an emotionally disturbed person in a discussion.
I lived in my co-op seventeen years and between comings and goings couldn't tell you everyone who lived there. In these days of everyone in Brooklyn seemingly airbnbing , who is to say who lives there or is visiting?
I think her parents own their apartment, not the whole building but that really irrelevant.
She tried to illegally detain both the "trespasser" and the livery driver.

You guess correctly!

I have spent a grand total of about an hour of my life in what would qualify as New York City, (driving from NJ to Foxwods) and if I ever have to spend as much as one second there again, it will be one second too many.

Autistic people are perfectly capable of carrying on conversations. What do you think autism is? There are different types of autistic people who have different abilities. Do you think categorical defiance is the best way to engage an autistic person?

Next:

1.) How do you expect Obregon to immediately conclude she is autistic?

2.) Obregon clearly attempted to engage her, as opposed to just leaving.

3.) How is, "It's raining and I'm waiting for an Uber, I'll be gone in (looks at phone) about three minutes," not ALWAYS a better answer than, "I'm not budging."

Quote:

I lived in my co-op seventeen years and between comings and goings couldn't tell you everyone who lived there. In these days of everyone in Brooklyn seemingly airbnbing , who is to say who lives there or is visiting?

How many units did your apartment have? Do we know how many was in Torres' apartment? I should imagine if that apartment only has four units accessible by that particular door (or some other similarly small number) then she has a pretty good idea who lives there and who doesn't.

Also:

If Obregon did, in fact, live there...then the, "Best," answer would be, "I live here."

If Obregon was waiting to visit someone, then the best answer would be, "I'm waiting to visit someone."

Finally, Torres didn't film Obregon, so we don't know Obregon's precise verbiage. The only thing we know is that she both refused to move and made no attempt to explain what she was doing there.

I agree that she did try to illegally detain the trespasser and the Uber driver. Like I said before, or Obregon to be off the property is what she wanted, so Obregon getting in the car, in my view, would be a satisfactory conclusion if that's what I wanted. She also told the Uber driver that taking Obregon away was an illegal act, (I assume she thought it to be some kind of aiding and abetting) which is 100% wrong because I don't believe defiant trespass carries an aiding and abetting distinction. Even then, the Uber driver himself had nothing to do with the actual trespass.

Quote: AZDuffman

I am not even talking laws, I am talking general respect. I told the story years ago here, about how I was out with my dad in his antique car. Stopped at a little ice cream place. We were the only car in the lot. 30 feet to park on either side. Woman pulls in and parks right along side and almost opens her door into it. Remember, 30 feet on each side. A normal person would give a buffer, to any other car.

Okay. We both agree that some people, in general terms, should be more respectful of other people. I don't dispute that, not sure I ever did.

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So I told the story here for I forget what thread. The liberals here all said to effect, "TOUGH, you do not get a buffer when you park a car." Or for a larger scale at how much mess is left over after liberal rallies vs. conservative ones. Look at the mess OWS made vs. Tea Party rallies. It is hard to measure, but I keep seeing it.

Whatever you say.

Measure it by quantity of pieces of litter or by weight, over a large sample size and then take the quantity of items or net weight and divide by the number of people there to come up with litter attributable on a, "Per person" basis...again...over a large sample size, then come back to me with that.

I also don't care for the concept of mass demonstrations, in general, but understand why they are rarely (but sometimes) necessary.

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Call it either way, it is still a lack of civil behavior. Call it younger women have never had to unload a load. There is still an attitude there.

You said that you see it most commonly among black women. I said that, in my very few experiences in this regard, I saw it most often amongst young teenage girls regardless of their race. That's all.

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Probably walked by it many times then. There were not many places I felt like having lunch there, and I most of my bar hanging days are behind me. I gave the local coffee place a try once but had to go to SBUX as the locals took just too much time to make a simple iced coffee.

I don't know what, "Local," place you mean. I can actually think of three or four that might apply and fit within the geographic range that you are describing. Two are more restaurants than, "Coffee places," but do serve specialty coffee drinks. The other two definitely qualify as, "Coffee Places," pretty exclusively. Do you mean the one closest to the courthouse where you go down the stairs? I know if it, but I'm not sure I've ever gone there. I don't think I have.

I don't know where a Starbucks is around there, other than the Mount DeChantal Kroger which is nowhere near the courthouse. Is the thing in the Barnes & Noble at the college a Starbucks? That didn't exist when I attended that school, the Barnes and Noble did, but it was in the B&O building and did not have a coffee place at that time. I have been in the new Barnes & Noble once, but I don't remember whether or not it is a Starbucks.

I imagine that the Starbucks, in any case, is also staffed by locals. The Starbucks is probably faster because they are farther along into the preparation process knowing that a given item will eventually be ordered. Kind of like how fast food places get a burger and fries out more quickly than a sit down restaurant. That's not to disparage Starbucks. Starbucks has one drink I really like, but you'd have to ask my fiance' what it is...I never remember.

Quote: billryan

When I had my Tesla, I'd park it in a far corner where others don't park. I'd inconvenience myself rather than expect others to make an accommodation for me. It's how I was raised.
In an empty parking lot, you chose a prime spot and don't want anyone near you.

I park away from other cars whenever possible for both myself and the other person. I'm terrible at parking is why.

Bruce Lee said to park far away so you get some good exercise walking.

Quote: Mission146

I don't know what, "Local," place you mean. I can actually think of three or four that might apply and fit within the geographic range that you are describing. Two are more restaurants than, "Coffee places," but do serve specialty coffee drinks. The other two definitely qualify as, "Coffee Places," pretty exclusively. Do you mean the one closest to the courthouse where you go down the stairs? I know if it, but I'm not sure I've ever gone there. I don't think I have.

I forget what it is called. Down by the Nailers arena. Nice enough people, but when I ordered an iced coffee I swear they had to send Juan Valdez out to pick the beans.

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I don't know where a Starbucks is around there, other than the Mount DeChantal Kroger which is nowhere near the courthouse. Is the thing in the Barnes & Noble at the college a Starbucks? That didn't exist when I attended that school, the Barnes and Noble did, but it was in the B&O building and did not have a coffee place at that time. I have been in the new Barnes & Noble once, but I don't remember whether or not it is a Starbucks.

Yes, at the bookstore. Technically it was a licensed location, so you got no stars. OTOH, half the time I got extra stamps for a free coffee. When they switched to an app, the girls at the counter let if not encouraged an extra "stamp" there as well. I think they liked the old guy coming in most days.

Out of the county now so it all matters not. No place near the current courthouse.