StricklyAP/WizardofNothing
Quote: darkozSo for clarification and to be direct:
Mission:
You did not meet Jeff W.face to face until after he had created his account as WON? Approximately late 2015-early 2016?
I did not meet WoN or the person behind any of those handles face-to-face until 2016, period. Not late 2015. 2016. Two-Zero-One-Six.
I actually believe that us meeting up with you was the first period of two days that I saw him in person, but it may have been the second. I'm not 100% sure. Definitely either only the first or second outing, there.
I worked six days per week, twelve hours per day throughout ALL of 2015 and into about March 2016. I had one day off per week and zero vacation days that I ever actually got to take. That's how I know 2015 is impossible.
Quote: Mission146Absolutely, positively, 100% not.
If you want me to stop discussing it, then stop asking me questions.
I worked with the guy in the context of myself personally and did not ever involve anyone from the forum in his affairs. I never once vouched for him to anyone.
If you want me to quit talking, then quit making false statements.
I've already stated that, as long as it doesn't affect my writing for the sites, that I intend to resign as an Administrator, here.
I will be quite unhappy with you if you resign over this. I have survived the snake pit aspect here of late, and I expect you to as well. You haven't done anything wrong as an administrator. You are not responsible for anything SAP has done. You're only responsible for your own actions, as is anyone who gambles, whether as a ploppy, AP, or scammer.
All of us feel sympathy for someone who gets scammed. Just like we feel bad for a nice guy who's getting killed at the table with bad variance.
And, MaxPen, and Boz, aren't you both huge on personal responsibility? How come you're dogging Mission when he wasn't roping in victims or doing any scamming? Victims who were all over 21, thought they saw an opportunity, but let themselves get fooled or used instead? No personal responsibility there, huh? Mission was supposed to protect anonymous forum people he didn't know from a guy he hadn't met until after they'd been scammed? Get real, please.
Quote: Mission146"Dangerously close?" Were I not an Admin, I would demand that he would be banned for Trolling, Bullying, Personal Insult and outright defamation.
Hate to break it to you but as it stands this won't meet the legal criteria for defamation.
I'll be the first to admit I'm not mission's biggest fan and yes the information in this thread doesn't look positive for him.
However i live in America (as a lot of us here do) and it is still innocent until proven guilty. Right now it's all hearsay and conjecture. At this point bring solid proof or leave him alone. After all you are only entitled to one bite from the apple.
Quote: OutsideTheBoxI don't know or understand how JeffWarren was able to figure out the identity of who made the account. I assumed it was through Mission because of the working relationship that I knew they have/had and thats why I am waiting for him to respond with a hypothesis of how this was possible.
I also assumed it because of the various things members have pointed out about the relationship between Mission and JeffWarren that mission chose not to do something about: how he had an ad up for employment that wasnt modified, how there were existing reports that he was a con man but his account was still active, etc.
Am I really to believe that Mission who has known WoN personally for multiple years came to the conclusion after many members shared their concerns about JeffWarren that "Its just someones word against the other" when there were/are so many overwhelming accounts testifying that JeffWarren is pure evil?
I want the truth, not to assume. These are educated assumptions. There is no way possible that Mission wasn't aware jeffwarren75 had many accusations of being a scammer. There is no way Mission wasn't somewhat complicit (directly or indirectly) in helping him scam unless I am to believe the above, that he truly believed it was one persons work against another.
I draw a conclusion because it has been way more than one persons word against JeffWarren. There are circumstantial issues (like mission and jeff having worked together continually over time and Missions perceived benefit from that) that incentivizes mission to protect jeffwarren. Something is being withheld. If it smells, looks, and quacks like a duck...
Yeah, it looks, sounds, and quacks like a series of personal attacks. 14 day suspension, Martingale for 3 in a row trying to justify your "assumptions" and accusations into anything meaningful or credible. The next attack, should you return, without stone cold PROOF will cause a nuke.
Quote: beachbumbabsI will be quite unhappy with you if you resign over this. I have survived the snake pit aspect here of late, and I expect you to as well. You haven't done anything wrong as an administrator. You are not responsible for anything SAP has done. You're only responsible for your own actions, as is anyone who gambles, whether as a ploppy, AP, or scammer.
Quite frankly, if I have a choice, I will no longer do some of these people the favor of Administrating this site on a volunteer basis.
I abided by a very clear rule and Wizard agreed with my action. Everyone admits that everyone knew that SAP=WoN before he was banned, yet somehow that is exclusively my fault.
I stand accused of things that are not provably false, and things that literally cannot possibly be true.
There was either personal information in that thread, or there was not. There is either a rule or there is not.
The fact is that nobody actually believes I did any of this stuff, or at least certainly not the majority of it, they're just jacked that I deleted that thread.
Quote: HomelessnycHate to break it to you but as it stands this won't meet the legal criteria for defamation.
I didn't mean in the legal sense. Thanks for the rest of your post.
Quote: beachbumbabsAnd, MaxPen, and Boz, aren't you both huge on personal responsibility? How come you're dogging Mission when he wasn't roping in victims or doing any scamming? Victims who were all over 21, thought they saw an opportunity, but let themselves get fooled or used instead? No personal responsibility there, huh? Mission was supposed to protect anonymous forum people he didn't know from a guy he hadn't met until after they'd been scammed? Get real, please.
I think that Moderators/Admins have the personal responsibility to keep the forum Spam/Scam free and as least Toxic as possible. Why else be a moderator?
Again I am not accusing anyone in particular. I am only being vocal about this because I almost met and did business with the guy, but fortunately I had the gut feeling not to trust him.
Despite any finger pointing or baseless accusations, the fact remains that a user, who was well known to be both a sock puppet and scammer, was allowed to use this forum as a platform to advertise and perpetuate his fraud.
And well known puppet/scammer as in really well known. The sock puppet part was discussed openly. And the fact that he was a thief was super public as well. I personally spoke to several active and well known members here about him, and they all immediately said he is never to be trusted. Hell, Bob Dancer even wrote a 2pt article on it.
I find it very hard to believe that zero moderators knew of any of these facts. Whether it was done on purpose or not, a blind eye was turned somewhere, and people were scammed out of money because of it.
Quote: OutsideTheBoxscreen name is original and only used on this site.
FYI, if I really wanted your IP, or anyone’s IP on this site for that matter, I could get it because of a flaw in the way this site is designed (to be fair, most forums have the same flaw). Again, that wouldn’t require anyone to leak anything. I can do a demonstration if you like.
This issue has bothered me for a long time, as any casino could exploit it and then tie your username here to a casino website account if they wanted. Right now the only way to avoid this issue is to use a VPN when accessing WOV and using a private browser window.
I enjoy your articles and moderation
I do admit won bandied your name about often mentioning work you guys did. Our meeting together gave his claims credence so he used you too
It's what conmen do
Quote: NathanIMHO, Mission is a GOOD guy and I believe what he says. He is honest, mature, and responsible. I vouch and attest for him! :D
Thank you, I probably could be more responsible than I am, though. I'm a career underachiever.
Quote: Mission146Thank you, I probably could be more responsible than I am, though. I'm a career underachiever.
To me when I called you "responsible" i think I meant it more like "rational," ;)
Quote: darkoz
I enjoy your articles and moderation
I do admit won bandied your name about often mentioning work you guys did. Our meeting together gave his claims credence so he used you too
It's what conmen do
Thank you for your compliments and fairness. I have no knowledge of him tossing my name around. Again, nobody ever really asked me about him.
I also promise that I did not meet you for that purpose and it was in the context of me being asked that morning if I wanted to stick around for lunch to meet you. Why wouldn't I stick around to meet you? I'll meet anyone, everyone knows that.
Honestly, had you been a half hour later, we never would have met. Like I said, with a long drive and somewhere else to stop along the way, I wasn't planning on sticking around too long.
Quote: RSSorta like a really f***ing ugly Peyton Manning, IMO.
LMAO! :D "A really ugly Peyton Manning!" :D I personally saw a bit of Mel Gibson when I saw Jeff's pictures. ;)
Quote: cwazy
In short, your suspicion is completely false. Maybe your “associate” volunteered information that divulged his identity. But it didn’t come from his IP being leaked.
I somehow missed this post until now. Thank you for your post.
Quote: Mission146I somehow missed this post until now. Thank you for your post.
No problem. I'm routinely ignored on this forum :), but that's partially my fault since I don't post much. BTW...this is the vulnerability that I was talking about that allows anyone to get IP addresses of members here:
Basically, because the forum allows external images (including in PMs), any casino could post even a single pixel invisible image in any thread and sit back and not just collect IPs, but also cookie and use more advanced fingerprinting techniques that don't require cookies. Then sit back and wait for people with that cookie/IP to login to check offers at the casino website, and bam - they're toast (FYI I'm not logging these or issuing cookies, but I easily could).
A site like this should be proxying all external images.
Quote: cwazyNo problem. I'm routinely ignored on this forum :), but that's partially my fault since I don't post much. BTW...this is the vulnerability that I was talking about that allows anyone to get IP addresses of members here:
Basically, because the forum allows external images (including in PMs), any casino could post even a single pixel invisible image in any thread and sit back and not just collect IPs, but also cookie and use more advanced fingerprinting techniques that don't require cookies. Then sit back and wait for people with that cookie/IP to login to check offers at the casino website, and bam - they're toast (FYI I'm not logging these or issuing cookies, but I easily could).
A site like this should be proxying all external images.
He shoots, he scores! I'm a town or two over, though, I guess you can't get my address from an IP.
Other than that, I don't understand anything you just said, but thank you for saying it.
The Administrator position pays a salary of $0 ? For all you do in helping members around here and its all volunteer work? All I can say is wow! I just wanted to say I hope you stay and thank you for all you do for the forum.Quote: Mission146Quite frankly, if I have a choice, I will no longer do some of these people the favor of Administrating this site on a volunteer basis.
Quote: EdpokernutThe Administrator position pays a salary of $0 ? For all you do in helping members around here and its all volunteer work? All I can say is wow! I just wanted to say I hope you stay and thank you for all you do for the forum.
I thank you for your post. I intend to continue writing for the sites as well as posting regularly.
I will also continue to help people to any extent that I can, including answering math questions that are within my ability.
Quote: Mission146Quote: cwazyNo problem. I'm routinely ignored on this forum :), but that's partially my fault since I don't post much. BTW...this is the vulnerability that I was talking about that allows anyone to get IP addresses of members here:
Basically, because the forum allows external images (including in PMs), any casino could post even a single pixel invisible image in any thread and sit back and not just collect IPs, but also cookie and use more advanced fingerprinting techniques that don't require cookies. Then sit back and wait for people with that cookie/IP to login to check offers at the casino website, and bam - they're toast (FYI I'm not logging these or issuing cookies, but I easily could).
A site like this should be proxying all external images.
He shoots, he scores! I'm a town or two over, though, I guess you can't get my address from an IP.
Other than that, I don't understand anything you just said, but thank you for saying it.
TLDR: You can create a dynamic image using PHP. Probably others but that’s what I’m familiar with.
It’s common on vegasmessageboard (or something like that), where people have an image in their signature that has a “countdown to Vegas trip”. Basically it’s just code that creates an image and text over it. That in it of itself is fine.
However, you can also write more code that doesn’t effect the image. You can even make it so it’s just a regular looking picture, like a funny cat, and have the extra code added in there. Ah, those were the days.
ZCore13
Quote: cwazyNo problem. I'm routinely ignored on this forum :), but that's partially my fault since I don't post much. BTW...this is the vulnerability that I was talking about that allows anyone to get IP addresses of members here:
Basically, because the forum allows external images (including in PMs), any casino could post even a single pixel invisible image in any thread and sit back and not just collect IPs, but also cookie and use more advanced fingerprinting techniques that don't require cookies. Then sit back and wait for people with that cookie/IP to login to check offers at the casino website, and bam - they're toast (FYI I'm not logging these or issuing cookies, but I easily could).
A site like this should be proxying all external images.
Is this a special trick because it showed up as Nha Trang, Vietnam which is where I am lol.
Quote: cwazyNo problem. I'm routinely ignored on this forum :), but that's partially my fault since I don't post much. is is the vulnerability that I was talking about that allows anyone to get IP addresses of members here:
Hey hey, that's me! Should I worry about something?
Quote: Zcore13I'd like to say, I don't know Mission personally. I've talked to him via PM multiple times. He's never been anything but respectful, professional and helpful. I think he's consistantly done a great job here as a Mod and writer. My guess would be that any association with WoN was on a business level with no intent to be any part of a scam or theft. He may have been played a bit, but that's what con artists are good at and sometimes it's hard to detect dishonesty when that's not how you think.
ZCore13
I thank you for your post supporting me, Zcore! I have always enjoyed my PM's with you and hope there are more in the future! I would say, only if you don't mind, that you are probably one of the people I've had more back-and-forth with than any other without ever meeting in person, or talking to on the phone. I look forward to meeting you one day, you'll see me as soon as I've, "Checked the machines," in your casino!
Quote: PokerGrinderQuote: cwazyNo problem. I'm routinely ignored on this forum :), but that's partially my fault since I don't post much. BTW...this is the vulnerability that I was talking about that allows anyone to get IP addresses of members here:
Basically, because the forum allows external images (including in PMs), any casino could post even a single pixel invisible image in any thread and sit back and not just collect IPs, but also cookie and use more advanced fingerprinting techniques that don't require cookies. Then sit back and wait for people with that cookie/IP to login to check offers at the casino website, and bam - they're toast (FYI I'm not logging these or issuing cookies, but I easily could).
A site like this should be proxying all external images.
Is this a special trick because it showed up as Nha Trang, Vietnam which is where I am lol.
when i looked at your pics it said you were in canada. I didn't want to out you and your lies but owell ;-)
This damn thread has pulled my time away from your thread and it makes me sad.
Quote: RS
TLDR: You can create a dynamic image using PHP. Probably others but that’s what I’m familiar with.
It’s common on vegasmessageboard (or something like that), where people have an image in their signature that has a “countdown to Vegas trip”. Basically it’s just code that creates an image and text over it. That in it of itself is fine.
However, you can also write more code that doesn’t effect the image. You can even make it so it’s just a regular looking picture, like a funny cat, and have the extra code added in there. Ah, those were the days.
You're quasi-correct, but everyone seems to be missing the point. It’s true that everyone who views that image is viewing their own IP address (even in quoted replies, so in GWAE’s post above this, you’re seeing your own IP and location in the image). But the point was to demonstrate the fact that when external images are allowed to be loaded directly, the third party server receives your IP address and browser headers that can be used to fingerprint your browser, and can also store cookies on your browser. That can be problematic for people trying to hide their identity, such as those in this forum.
Imagine that I work for a large casino chain (I don’t, this is a hypothetical). I can pop into a thread, and say “Great post!” in a response. Included in that post would be a transparent 1 pixel image that you wouldn't even see. When you merely load that page, my server now has your IP, browser information, and can drop a cookie on your browser. With that, next time you log into my player’s club website, I now know that you are a member of WOV and your casino account should at a minimum be flagged for review. In fact, if I wanted to identify specific individuals on here, I could simply send a PM with the same invisible image embedded, then I’d be able to correlate your casino player’s club login with your username here.
I don’t know if casinos have done this here or on other forums yet or not, but given that the members here probably represent millions in losses for casinos annually, there is certainly an incentive do so, since it would cost almost nothing. Maybe a few hours of setup time and another few hours just posting the pixel in popular threads.
There is a way for the forum to prevent this while still allowing external images to be displayed. But obviously they are not doing it. That was the point of showing the IP. I wasn’t trying to perform a parlor trick, I was trying to call attention to a glaring privacy issue.
Quote: cwazyYou're quasi-correct, but everyone seems to be missing the point. It’s true that everyone who views that image is viewing their own IP address (even in quoted replies, so in GWAE’s post above this, you’re seeing your own IP and location in the image). But the point was to demonstrate the fact that when external images are allowed to be loaded directly, the third party server receives your IP address and browser headers that can be used to fingerprint your browser, and can also store cookies on your browser. That can be problematic for people trying to hide their identity, such as those in this forum.
Imagine that I work for a large casino chain (I don’t, this is a hypothetical). I can pop into a thread, and say “Great post!” in a response. Included in that post would be a transparent 1 pixel image that you wouldn't even see. When you merely load that page, my server now has your IP, browser information, and can drop a cookie on your browser. With that, next time you log into my player’s club website, I now know that you are a member of WOV and your casino account should at a minimum be flagged for review. In fact, if I wanted to identify specific individuals on here, I could simply send a PM with the same invisible image embedded, then I’d be able to correlate your casino player’s club login with your username here.
I don’t know if casinos have done this here or on other forums yet or not, but given that the members here probably represent millions in losses for casinos annually, there is certainly an incentive do so, since it would cost almost nothing. Maybe a few hours of setup time and another few hours just posting the pixel in popular threads.
There is a way for the forum to prevent this while still allowing external images to be displayed. But obviously they are not doing it. That was the point of showing the IP. I wasn’t trying to perform a parlor trick, I was trying to call attention to a glaring privacy issue.
Um. Holy crap? Really? Wow. 1 pixel?
Be watching your PMs, please.
You have been a cool cat and have acted respectfully and professionally from my encounters with you. I just tried to PM you but it didnt go through. Are you not receiving PMs or is the site prohibiting it.?
And either way, the only way for a casino to trace it back to an individual would be if it was sent via PM, or they matched the IP to one that had accessed their player card online.
Quote: WatchMeWinMission,
You have been a cool cat and have acted respectfully and professionally from my encounters with you. I just tried to PM you but it didnt go through. Are you not receiving PMs or is the site prohibiting it.?
I’ll be off until noon my time, but I’ve received PMs recently, soI don’t know what that’s about.
I simply do not believe long term active posters are claiming that they did not know won/sap were the same handle. I just can’t believe that, there was 100000% no attempt to mask it.
Quote: mcallister3200Ok so he was on his third account, almost everyone knew who he was, and he would have created another one if banned. So is it better for people to know who he is so they can be wary and warn when needed, or to operate under yet another handle, scamming people without people knowing and being able to warn others? Idk, I’m just saying, it’s not so clear cut easy to prevent.
I simply do not believe long term active posters are claiming that they did not know won/sap were the same handle. I just can’t believe that, there was 100000% no attempt to mask it.
If someone gets scammed by a brand new member of a random forum then they are idiots. If they allow someone to be on here to "watch them" then someone who doesnt read every thread might get a PM from him and assume he is good since he was a long time member.
I’m not agreeing that he was allowed to be here forever, I don’t understand the need to make it one persons fault when so many knew.
Quote: cwazy... But the point was to demonstrate the fact that when external images are allowed to be loaded directly, the third party server receives your IP address and browser headers that can be used to fingerprint your browser, and can also store cookies on your browser. That can be problematic for people trying to hide their identity, such as those in this forum.
I blame Mission146 for this too. He should probably resign from the whole internet.
Quote: mcallister3200
I simply do not believe long term active posters are claiming that they did not know won/sap were the same handle.
I am claiming that.
Quote: mcallister3200Ok so he was on his third account, almost everyone knew who he was, and he would have created another one if banned. So is it better for people to know who he is so they can be wary and warn when needed, or to operate under yet another handle, scamming people without people knowing and being able to warn others? Idk, I’m just saying, it’s not so clear cut easy to prevent.
I simply do not believe long term active posters are claiming that they did not know won/sap were the same handle. I just can’t believe that, there was 100000% no attempt to mask it.
I didn't know. Not every forum member follows every thread
Quote: DRichI am claiming that.
I have visited this site multiple times per day, just about every day for the last 8 years. I had no idea they were the same people.
ZCore13
Quote: mcallister3200I suppose. I would argue that assumption would make them the exact same thing.
I’m not agreeing that he was allowed to be here forever, I don’t understand the need to make it one persons fault when so many knew.
I’ve been here for 6 years and I did not know that Won and strictlyAp were the same person
I come on the forum everyday and I’m always seeing sock puppets banned left and right. I did not know that if a banned member coming back as a sock puppet has a business relationship with an Admin , that the sock puppet would then have free reign to skirt the forum rules and renain active
The bottom line here is that an Admin had a business relationship with a banned member, he knew that banned member was back under a new name , and he has admitted that he was warned by third parties that this sock puppet was a scam artist fraudster , and he continued to allow that sock puppet to stay.
If anyone thinks that that conflict of interest , and the favoritism that resulted from it.. was fair and moral , then I’d be interested in hearing that side of the story
ETA: After writing that, there will be 3 camps. 1 says yep I know, 1 says I wonder who it is, and the 3rd will say WTF is a secret admin
Quote: PokerGrinder. The forum member took me aside and warned me who this guy was and not to trust him.
another forum member gave me the exact same warning
The next day another forum member also warned me about him.
I’m not sure what his endgame with me was but . . . . . . I don’t need people like that in my life.
Yes. Sounds like a "steer clear" situation. It doesn't matter what particular brand of snake oil he is selling. All you need to know is that whatever he is selling will be expensive and it won't benefit you in any way.
If he can get YOU a free suite at the Aria why is he staying at the Golden Nugget?
Quote: michael99000I’ve been here for 6 years and I did not know that Won and strictlyAp were the same person
The bottom line here is that an Admin had a business relationship with a banned member, he knew that banned member was back under a new name , and he has admitted that he was warned by third parties that this sock puppet was a scam artist fraudster , and he continued to allow that sock puppet to stay.
If anyone thinks that that conflict of interest , and the favoritism that resulted from it.. was fair and moral , then I’d be interested in hearing that side of the story
First, did he know what the banned member was back under a new name?
Second, being warned that someone is a fraudster doesn't make him a fraudster. Maybe Mission should have passed that information onto another mod or the site's DBA to investigate further and that would be his mistake. Sock puppets are not easy to recognize by the very limited means that they have.
If indeed, any mod knew that fact 2 was true, there should have been an immediate nuke.
If indeed, any mod knew that fact 3 was true, there should have been an immediate nuke.
Even statements by members attesting to activities that WoN/SAP did doesn't make it true.
Finally, this site doesn't need to be fair and moral and free of conflicts of interest? Why does a private website have to adhere by those standards?
I didn't know. I didn't care.
Quote: GWAEI can understand how people may not have known. Just like many of you don't have a clue who at least one of the secret admins are. If you follow all then you may know, if you missed a few threads then you probably dont.
ETA: After writing that, there will be 3 camps. 1 says yep I know, 1 says I wonder who it is, and the 3rd will say WTF is a secret admin
Wtf is a secret admin?
Quote: cwazyNo problem. I'm routinely ignored on this forum :), but that's partially my fault since I don't post much. BTW...this is the vulnerability that I was talking about that allows anyone to get IP addresses of members here:
Basically, because the forum allows external images (including in PMs), any casino could post even a single pixel invisible image in any thread and sit back and not just collect IPs, but also cookie and use more advanced fingerprinting techniques that don't require cookies. Then sit back and wait for people with that cookie/IP to login to check offers at the casino website, and bam - they're toast (FYI I'm not logging these or issuing cookies, but I easily could).
A site like this should be proxying all external images.
Hey what the **** is this ****?
cwazy is 100% correct.Quote: beachbumbabsUm. Holy crap? Really? Wow. 1 pixel?
Be watching your PMs, please.
I've programmed similar things for companies (legally) in email campaigns. I imbedded a blank 1px image in to the email so that when it was opened/viewed it would send a request back to our servers for the image (like any other image). When that request is made, certain information may be obtained from the requesting computer, such as an IP address. We used this information to log who, what, when, and where opened our emails to help optimize when to send them... Say most people opened the email at noon, then we would send them out at 11:30am so it was on the top of their inbox when they logged in at noon.
MODS/JB - Are formatting codes, such as img tags scrubbed out of PM's? I don't think they are... I just sent myself a PM with an image and it showed up. Thus, I could send ANY OF YOU a message and SIMPLY BY OPENING IT I could have code on my server log your requesting computers information upon the request (just like what I described above). All formatting tags should be removed from PM's so you have to actually click on a link to something.
As far as the forums goes, that's just going to happen. If you're allowing embedded images/videos/etc (which my opinion is you should it's cleaner and easier) you're going to run in to that exact problem. I didn't want to talk about it ever to give anyone the ideas, but since it's been discussed already, welp, not much you can do...
Quote: bobbartop
Hey what the f*** is this s***?
Careful, I won't be able to edit your profanity here any time now.
You are seeing your own IP and everyone looking at that is seeing their own IP, not yours.
If I MUST take a screenshot to prove that to you, I will. I would prefer to E-Mail that to you, though, so PM me your E-Mail address if you would like. I would rather not post my IP on the open Forum, but if you absolutely DEMAND it as proof, I will for a very short time.
