SHOOTING at Mandalay festival
Things can go wrong; remember that one swat officer fired off a round from inside the suite after they had confirmed the shooter was dead.
Adrenaline hasn't been called adrenaline for thirty years so lets just say that epinephrine levels were at full tilt.
Even Monday Morning Quarterbacks often get things very, very wrong.
Interestingly, Bloomberg thinks that when the dust settles, the insurance industry will have lost more than $1 billion from liability, life, and health insurance claims related to the shooting. The shooting lasted 10 minutes....a crazy/angry guy with some rifles managed to cause $100 million in insurance losses per minute. That shouldn't even be possible. I don't know if it's more gun laws we need, better technology at large events that could immediately pinpoint when bullets are in the air and exactly where they are coming from, etc., but something needs to be done.
One man had his workman's comp claim denied by California for his springing into action at the concert and I think he committed suicide after California ruled that an off duty police officer has to be in California to be covered.
Lots of lawyers going to be getting overtime on this case. Does that get added or subtracted from the hundred million?
Quote: FleaStiff
Lots of lawyers going to be getting overtime on this case. Does that get added or subtracted from the hundred million?
It's disgusting. Any lawyer that touches such a tragedy in any way should be working pro bono, unless they're defending AGAINST a civil suit, of course.
Quote: billryanSure, because the army of lawyers on the other side are working for free and in everybody's best interest.
It's a slam dunk that the casino and its insurance company will do the right thing for all involved.
While many may have already booked and didn't want to cancel, its good to see the shooting did not hurt Vegas tourism overall. Hopefully the trend continues in November & December.
#vegasstrong
Quote: Boz
While many may have already booked and didn't want to cancel, its good to see the shooting did not hurt Vegas tourism overall. Hopefully the trend continues in November & December.
#vegasstrong
Yeah, I went the week after the shooting, and there were tons of people. I felt like there was a pretty positive vibe going on. I can't wait to get back -- was hoping to go in 2018 for a weekend but I'm not sure if I'll be able to swing it.
Quote: Mission146It's disgusting. Any lawyer that touches such a tragedy in any way should be working pro bono, unless they're defending AGAINST a civil suit, of course.
Wait... you are talking about lawyers right? I mean lawyers? I think lawyer jokes and greed might be #1 or at least tied with blonde jokes.
I had a friend always upset about lawyers until one day he got in some trouble and needed one that cost him 20 dimes. He ended up having to do probation instead of serious jail time. I never heard him upset about lawyers and fees after that LOL!
Remember we are in America... we pay for health care and aren't supposed to be socialists even though I tend to agree with the socialist ideal. I guess my point is that in the good old USA we got to get paid for whatever work we do. Someone said long ago something about No Free Lunch or something like that. Remember and you all can look this up... the USA isn't a country by law... it is actually set up as a Corporation and that Corporation has to make profit.
Quote: thefish2010But if I'm not mistaken, Nevada law prohibits them from simply tearing up the markers.
It may be a matter of taking the loss as a deduction on net income. You can't simply call something a bad debt and write it off without proof you attempted to collect it. After all, the win shows as income/revenue. Casino's may operate differently but they are in fact audited, especially machines. So they claim anyhow.
Don't underestimate what lawyers will do for even the chance of a buck.
Back when Chicago street cars were a nickel one lawyer accepted his fee of five thousand nickels and pleaded his client not guilty.
Quote: NokTangIt may be a matter of taking the loss as a deduction on net income. You can't simply call something a bad debt and write it off without proof you attempted to collect it. After all, the win shows as income/revenue. Casino's may operate differently but they are in fact audited, especially machines. So they claim anyhow.
His debts of course are piled up in his "estate" and are paid in order of credit importance. So a bankruptcy court would put his debt to the casino probably behind any liens on real property and ahead of credit cards and other debts. I am sure that the casino's language in their marker contracts probably are built that way to make the debt collectible in the case of the debtor's demise.
As for reasonable attempt, an auditing company will do spot checks or look at big accounts and more importantly match the bad debt policy to what they state in their public records and ensure that their policy meets legal standards. A marker the size of the shooter's might pass right by the auditor's. As an auditor, I might be curious, but I wouldn't necessarily pick out that account to ensure collections were properly attempted. Typically an auditing company will look for "what makes up that balance", pick out a few examples, look at the collection attempts, and leave it at that).
Quote: Mission146It's disgusting. Any lawyer that touches such a tragedy in any way should be working pro bono, unless they're defending AGAINST a civil suit, of course.
Why should a lawyer work pro bono on this case? Just because it is a mass killing that is highly publicized and scrutinized? If it was a single victim shooting that only made the back pages of newspapers (do they still print these things anymore?), is it any less tragic to the victim and their family? For a lawyer who represents the victims, this can be a time consuming and difficult case to take on, I don't understand why they should take it on without expectation of compensation.
Quote: MidwestAPWhy should a lawyer work pro bono on this case? Just because it is a mass killing that is highly publicized and scrutinized? If it was a single victim shooting that only made the back pages of newspapers (do they still print these things anymore?), is it any less tragic to the victim and their family? For a lawyer who represents the victims, this can be a time consuming and difficult case to take on, I don't understand why they should take it on without expectation of compensation.
I agree. Plus these victims already have a massive relief fund. There are better spots to go pro bono.
Quote: RigondeauxI agree. Plus these victims already have a massive relief fund. There are better spots to go pro bono.
Pro boner work is almost always self serving.
Beyond the publicity, he wants to be able to tell future clients that he was the guy who represented victims of that mass shooting.
Quote: IbeatyouracesI'd like to see some sort of law limiting these ambulance chasing lawers from spamming my tv!
There used to be a law against lawyer TV commercials. See https://www.mprnews.org/story/2007/07/05/lawyer_advertising.
Quote: IbeatyouracesI'd like to see some sort of law limiting these ambulance chasing lawers from spamming my tv!
It occurred to me why those commercials always come on at 3AM.
People with injuries and in pain often have a hard time sleeping.
Quote: gamerfreakPro boner work is almost always self serving. Beyond the publicity, he wants to be able to tell future clients that he was the guy who represented victims of that mass shooting.
Really?
Tell that to the many family law client's I've represented through the volunteer lawyer's project over the years.
I sought and received zero press or bragging rights from it; just a sense of personal satisfaction, of helping people who need it.
I used to do personal injury work, but I quit doing it because the insurance attys were complete douchebags, as were most of my greedy, grasping, clients who never hesitated to exaggerate the effects of their injuries.
While profitable, it wasn't satisfying.
Quote: gamerfreakPro boner work is almost always self serving.
I'm sure it is! 😅
Gotta give money to the lawyers.
Satisfying??? I found one poor soul wandering around the court house trying to find the bus to the jail. He was profoundly deaf and was a very poor lip reader but the judge had just given him two weeks to get a lawyer, he thought he had been sentenced to two years in jail. I took him to the public defender's intake clerk.
Quote: MidwestAPWhy should a lawyer work pro bono on this case? Just because it is a mass killing that is highly publicized and scrutinized? If it was a single victim shooting that only made the back pages of newspapers (do they still print these things anymore?), is it any less tragic to the victim and their family? For a lawyer who represents the victims, this can be a time consuming and difficult case to take on, I don't understand why they should take it on without expectation of compensation.
Yeah, I didn’t say lawyers SHOULDN’T take on single victim cases pro bono, did I? I mean, maybe do it at break even, I don’t know, but you know they’ll all be getting the statutory maximum contingency fee.
Quote: MrVReally?
Tell that to the many family law client's I've represented through the volunteer lawyer's project over the years.
I sought and received zero press or bragging rights from it; just a sense of personal satisfaction, of helping people who need it.
I used to do personal injury work, but I quit doing it because the insurance attys were complete douchebags, as were most of my greedy, grasping, clients who never hesitated to exaggerate the effects of their injuries.
While profitable, it wasn't satisfying.
I probably over generalized, but my point is that free work of any kind often comes with ulterior motives, which I have s feeling is what is going on here. I could be wrong, I just don’t trust lawyers unless they’re working for me.
Quote: gamerfreakI probably over generalized, but my point is that free work of any kind often comes with ulterior motives, which I have s feeling is what is going on here. I could be wrong, I just don’t trust lawyers unless they’re working for me.
Don't fully trust even the ones who work for you.
Quote: billryanDon't fully trust even the ones who work for you.
It’s only natural when dealing with a professional who’s primary function is to be as cutthroat as possible.
Quote: gamerfreakIt occurred to me why those commercials always come on at 3AM.
People with injuries and in pain often have a hard time sleeping.
3AM? I usually just get some guy on TV telling me about his “Best Buys” when I’m in LA and can’t sleep. He seems believable.
Quote: Boz3AM? I usually just get some guy on TV telling me about his “Best Buys” when I’m in LA and can’t sleep. He seems believable.
Not sure if it's the same guy I'm thinking of, but I'm pretty sure he's a total fraud.
Quote: Boz3AM? I usually just get some guy on TV telling me about his “Best Buys” when I’m in LA and can’t sleep. He seems believable.
Does it repeat 18 times in a row?
Quote: gamerfreakI probably over generalized, but my point is that free work of any kind often comes with ulterior motives, which I have s feeling is what is going on here. I could be wrong, I just don’t trust lawyers unless they’re working for me.
I have to disagree. The vast number of people I know doing pro bono work (not just legal, but including them) do it because they want to give back. They feel fortunate, or have a skill that's needed by some who can't pay, or have the time and sufficient knowledge to be productive. I've done some myself from time to time, though ATC itself is not a volunteer activity.
Tax people volunteer at the library for seniors and poor people to deal with tax forms. Doctors and nurses do free clinics. Professional drivers take people to the polls or deliver Meals on Wheels. Handy people build houses for Habitat for Humanity. Everybody can serve food or wash dishes on Thanksgiving.
And, yes, lots of lawyers offer help for good reasons. I support the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), which is one of the largest of those.
Giving back within the scope of your talents is one of the best, most rewarding ways you will EVER spend your time. I can't recommend it highly enough. And, like nearly everyone I've met at these things, the effort you make is even more rewarding to you than to the recipients.
It's a great way to chase the blues, too (ZK). Thanksgiving is a perfect time to consider the soul-lifting properties.
Quote: Mission146Yeah, I didn’t say lawyers SHOULDN’T take on single victim cases pro bono, did I? I mean, maybe do it at break even, I don’t know, but you know they’ll all be getting the statutory maximum contingency fee.
True, you didn't exclude single victim cases, but I took your post to mean that there is something special about this case that makes it more appropriate pro bono. My mistake I guess.
I'm all for pro bono regardless of the motives of the provider of those services. But I don't agree that a provider should feel obligated.
Quote: RSNot sure if it's the same guy I'm thinking of, but I'm pretty sure he's a total fraud.
The GOAT LA tv electronics guy is Crazy Gideon.
https://youtu.be/tEOfXM5nvbw
Quote: beachbumbabsIt's a great way to chase the blues, too. Thanksgiving is a perfect time to consider the soul-lifting properties.
Yes. Working for free can be satisfying. I recall one poor soul wandering around the courthouse trying to get a form that would prove he was indignant. Of course he meant indigent but that is how ignorant some people are of simple procedures.
Its the same way with helping out a woman who is stranded with an infant and an empty tank of gas. Sure its a possibility that it is a ripoff but some spare change can go a long way. Pass someone with an over heating radiator? So what if a U-turn is illegal, I don't have a cell phone for them to use but I do have a pint of water for them to drink while they are in the hot Florida sun. Or slowing down for a woman who appears to be stranded by the side of the road but is actually happy since she is showing her daughter her first real live horse in someone's yard. Sometimes there is not much time for thought. I was stopped at a cross walk and a blind man was hidden from view by my vehicle but was about to step out into the path of a speeding motorcycle. I opened my driver's door and quickly closed it, but it sure scared that crazy motorcyclist who was about to pass me but would rather hit the brakes than a pedestrian.
Even in Vegas, decades ago I would play enough to get my lunch buffet voucher, but not wanting to eat a large meal before driving back to Vegas, I would find some young couple who looked like the word 'free' would really appeal to them and just hand them the validated coupon. Did it "bring me luck"? No, I was already on my way out to the car, but it still felt good.
Though I must admit: I'm glad I was not at Mandalay Bay that night. Over a thousand rounds fired and over four thousand rounds found in his room that he could have fired. Maybe just the fleeting images on his surveillance system made him think it was time for him to check out rather than have swat kill him. Heroes? There were zillions that day. Even the hospital janitors and young CNAs dragooned into being "pushers" in the ambulance bay acquitted themselves well.
Wish I could be more gauche.Quote: billryanYou mean some people work for money? How positively gauche.
Quote: MrVI saw where the sheriff says Paddock lost a significant amount of wealth beginning Sept. 2015, and that he believes this was a factor in the shooting.
Never heard of anyone who is making more and more money decide to go on a mass killing rampage, unless it's to acquire more property, power, or money-- so at least that has merit.
How many times had he lost such amounts in the past and bounced back?
I think the sheriff WANTS us to believe his theory is correct and of course it just might be, but one might also look for other factors.
Even if he had to drop back to the main casino rather than the high limit room, he would still be comped to 'rooms' rather than 'suites', I think he could have been affected by the loss but not to such a degree since all it meant is that he is simply a smaller whale.
Poverty is not insanity.
Pedophilia is not insanity.
Having a task, applying himself to it with dedication, knowing the consequences will be the arrival of swat, etc. do not indicate any "pure insanity". Quite the contrary.
Poverty is not insanity.
Pedophilia is not insanity.
Having a task, applying himself to it with dedication, knowing the consequences will be the arrival of swat, etc. do not indicate any "pure insanity". Quite the contrary.
"Hating the whole world" is not insanity. Acting on that hate is rare, but it is not insanity.
Holding First World Desires and Expectations in a Third World Economy often results in spouse abuse, alcoholism and eventually drug use, but it is not insanity.
Entering rehab and expecting it to cure drug addiction may be stupid but it is not insanity.
Even Conair's "driving thru three states wearing a little girl's head as a hat" is not insanity, it is simply rarely done.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/25/las-vegas-massacre-survivor-killed-in-hit-and-run.html
Quote: GWAENow that's some bad luck. Final destination anyone?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/25/las-vegas-massacre-survivor-killed-in-hit-and-run.html
A girl that was killed in the Aura Movie Theatre shooting survived a mall shooting some months earlier.
Quote: GWAENow that's some bad luck. Final destination anyone?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/25/las-vegas-massacre-survivor-killed-in-hit-and-run.html
His wife's quote struck me the wrong way.
Quote:"I don't understand why he wasn't taken at the shooting, but a month later he was taken this way," McClellan's wife, Denise, told KSNV
(why didn't that bastard get shot then? is the way I first read it)
It was actually not meant that way though.
According to some people on this forum you are supposed to use the words, bad variance.Quote: GWAENow that's some bad luck. Final destination anyone?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/25/las-vegas-massacre-survivor-killed-in-hit-and-run.html
