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Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
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RogerKintgamerfreakmcallister3200
February 13th, 2019 at 6:26:10 PM permalink
On another note, I said before that I think many diets ranging from keto to vegan are probably fine, especially compared to SAD.

I'd like to strike vegas from the list. I've watched lots of youtubers talking about their own health and fitness journeys. There's a growing number of ex-vegans who find that the diet is fine for 1-2 years, but then you start having a lot of problems. You can see these people dramatically improve their appearance in a month of eating animal products.

I noticed that many vegans have this very similar, unhealthy look. Sort of an overly skinny, emaciated body and a very old looking face. Many of these are people whose life revolves around nutrition, so they are not eating chips and candy all day. There's one famous vegan called freelee who started off looking like a model and now looks like a drug addict.

I'm friends with a vegan couple and they have the same look, though it's clearer to me now that I've seen a lot of people with similar looks.

Probably still better than fast food and doughnuts, but you might want to try gently planting some seeds in the minds of any vegans you know that it isn't very healthy.

This is a good video by a guy who really wanted to stay vegan, but found it was just too harmful to his physical and mental health.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rhGkFmbY2M
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
Joined: Dec 28, 2014
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odiousgambit
February 13th, 2019 at 6:47:12 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

On another note, I said before that I think many diets ranging from keto to vegan are probably fine, especially compared to SAD.

I'd like to strike vegas from the list. I've watched lots of youtubers talking about their own health and fitness journeys. There's a growing number of ex-vegans who find that the diet is fine for 1-2 years, but then you start having a lot of problems. You can see these people dramatically improve their appearance in a month of eating animal products.

I noticed that many vegans have this very similar, unhealthy look. Sort of an overly skinny, emaciated body and a very old looking face. Many of these are people whose life revolves around nutrition, so they are not eating chips and candy all day. There's one famous vegan called freelee who started off looking like a model and now looks like a drug addict.

I'm friends with a vegan couple and they have the same look, though it's clearer to me now that I've seen a lot of people with similar looks.

Probably still better than fast food and doughnuts, but you might want to try gently planting some seeds in the minds of any vegans you know that it isn't very healthy.

This is a good video by a guy who really wanted to stay vegan, but found it was just too harmful to his physical and mental health.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rhGkFmbY2M


Iíve met several vegans that eat like garbage.

Very few actual vegetables, and lots of processed snack foods that just so happen to be vegan.

Also lots of processed vegan products like meat/cheese substitutes are soy based. And there seems to be quite a bit of research showing a lot of negatives of soy rich diets.

FWIW Iíve also walked back a bit on my ďcarbs are poisonĒ stance many pages ago in this thread. I think the only real key to weight loss and a overall healthy diet is calorie restriction. Not to say low carb diets arenít effective if you can stick to the, but I think they are effective due to calorie restriction. Itís very hard to over eat when youíre only eating meats and veggies.
FinsRule
FinsRule
Joined: Dec 23, 2009
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February 13th, 2019 at 8:12:49 PM permalink
Iím a fat vegetarian.

Iíd probably be a fat vegan too.
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
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February 14th, 2019 at 3:07:51 AM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

I think the only real key to weight loss and a overall healthy diet is calorie restriction. Not to say low carb diets arenít effective if you can stick to the, but I think they are effective due to calorie restriction. Itís very hard to over eat when youíre only eating meats and veggies.



Just found a pretty good video on this very subject. He argues that calories are different because different foods are processed differently and create different hormonal reactions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcMBm-UVdII
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
Joined: Dec 28, 2014
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Rigondeaux
February 15th, 2019 at 1:17:01 AM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

Just found a pretty good video on this very subject. He argues that calories are different because different foods are processed differently and create different hormonal reactions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcMBm-UVdII


Here is the podcast that changed my mind (warning itís 3 hours long):
https://youtu.be/u93oh9kC-rU

Here is a 15 minute excerpt if you donít have that kind of time:
https://youtu.be/FCBv1ndM2c8

Iím not saying Keto/Low Carb is bad at all. But if you are on a Keto-like diet you are almost certainly eating at a calorie deficit. And the research is very clear that calorie restriction results in weight loss and increased longevity.

Nothing has shown low carb diets to be effective by any other mechanism other than calorie restriction.
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
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February 24th, 2019 at 3:00:32 PM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

Here is the podcast that changed my mind (warning itís 3 hours long):
https://youtu.be/u93oh9kC-rU

Here is a 15 minute excerpt if you donít have that kind of time:
https://youtu.be/FCBv1ndM2c8

Iím not saying Keto/Low Carb is bad at all. But if you are on a Keto-like diet you are almost certainly eating at a calorie deficit. And the research is very clear that calorie restriction results in weight loss and increased longevity.

Nothing has shown low carb diets to be effective by any other mechanism other than calorie restriction.



Interesting stuff. He's definitely right about people mingling diet and identity and becoming zealots. Seems, as he suggests, in the absence of religion people just find other vehicles to become nut jobs.

It's all pretty hard to sort out, but I've seen various stuff saying things that might not contradict this, but, let's say, modify it.

One thing he says is that intake matters relative to what you burn. So maybe some diets or habits can slow or speed up your metabolism. When they studied the Biggest Loser contestants, most of whom gain the weight back, they found that their metabolism slowed to a crawl. They were burning 1,200 calories a day.

Fasters burn more fat and less muscle than people who simply restrict calories. They also have less difficulty with hunger and feel better.

Also, satiation and cravings matter a lot, even if you just focus on in/out. I'm just doing keto sporadically now, but it still makes me feel full and satisfied. When I eat carbs, especially totally empty carbs, it's harder to get into a fast and, even when eating, it's hard to feel full. If I didn't will myself to stop, I think I could probably eat about 3k calories of fresh chips and salsa pretty easily.

Maybe this is why we eat desert last. You can have a steak dinner and feel really full. But then you taste a little sugar and suddenly you can eat another 800 calories of it.

He mentions that long term adherence is the key and that people on keto and low fat can both do this. However, I think many/most low fat people are vegan, so they probably have extra reasons to stay on the diet, i.e. saving animals. But, as I said, I suspect a vegan diet is unhealthy for many if not most and if it can be made healthy, it takes a ton of work.

Straight caloric restriction is the hardest, I'd guess since it is just using will power relentlessly for years.

Another point for my religion, fasting, is that you only have to use the will power in bursts. And, once you are used to it, it's not even that much will power.

Plus, it is an isolated kind of project. You set a goal and try to hit it, then you can work on other things, then it's time for another fast. Psychologically, this is much more appealing to me than to spend my whole life constantly eating less food than I want. Keto is similar, but less dramatic. It is fun researching and making keto meals and they taste good and make you feel full.

But that's just my reaction to these things. As both doctors say, you have to figure out something that is appealing and sustainable for you. But, especially given what the guy says past 14:00, I came away thinking keto is the most likely to work and perhaps has other benifits.

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