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AceCrAAckers
AceCrAAckers
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ck1313NeutrinoRSSOOPOO
August 18th, 2017 at 11:46:18 AM permalink
The pendulum has swung so far left that we must tolerate the agenda of the left but anything that are disagreeable with them is deemed biased, racist, intolerant, close-minded, and morally wrong.
There are many topics that we can discuss but the one that is at the center of news lately is removal of all Confederate monuments. Anyone who finds Robert E. Lee admirable is portrayed as a delusional racist who supports the detestable institution of slavery.

Here are some facts.

Robert E. Lee was against slavery. If the Civil War was about slavery, he would have fought for the Union. U.S. Grant was for slavery, and if the Civil War was about slavery he would have fought for the Confederate. Lee did not own slaves, Grant did.
Lincoln would have allowed slavery if it meant preserving the Union.

There is a battle line that is drawn that the left is afraid to cross. There are some who want to remove all monuments of political figures that were slave owners. The two most prominent men are Jefferson and Washington.

It is easy to denounce the KKK, but are you going to denounce Washington? Are we to remove him from Mount Rushmore? Are we to remove him from quarters? Schools that are named after him, roads, towns, and even a state, are they to be changed?
Attack George Washington and you will get a backlash from patriotic Americans that no group with their left agenda will ever recover from. He was a slave owner!!!! Where is your outrage at him that you are showing to Confederate monuments and men of the Confederacy?

U.S. Grant had it right when he gave lenient terms of surrender at the end of the war. There were people wanting Lee hung as a war criminal and for treason. Grant would not allow this and made sure that attempt at this would be squashed.

The price of slavery has been paid in full by whites. Go to the cemetery at Antietam, Vicksburg, Gettysburg, and countless other battlefields and you will see where their payments have been made. The last payment is found at Oak Ridge Cemetery
Instead of finding reason to keep dividing our country, let us bury the past and move forward for a stronger, better America. And lastly, I leave you with this.
GOD bless America
Edward Snowden is not the criminal, the government is for violating the constitution!
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
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RogerKint
August 18th, 2017 at 12:11:08 PM permalink
If the civil war wasn't about slavery then why are white deaths in the civil war payment for slavery?

Lee also opposed pro- confederate monuments.

it would be wiser “not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife.”

It does seem like kind of a foolish thing to expend so much energy on, one way or the other.

I'm not sure it's as much a right and left thing as our elites wanting the population divided. And people existing in echo chambers.
billryan
billryan
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August 18th, 2017 at 12:25:14 PM permalink
Half truths are amongst the worst of lies, as they sound so good.
1)U.S. Grant was given a slave to settle a debt. He then freed him.
2) Lee did not technically own any slaves. The estate( now Arlington National Cemetery) wasn't owned by Lee, it was his wife's, inherited from her father.
Her father's will called for all his slaves to be freed upon his death, but Lee went to court arguing freeing them immediately would be an undue hardship, asking for five years to transition.
3) Whatever Lee's feelings about slavery were, he lead an armed insurgency that if successful would have kept blacks enslaved.
4) I don't purport to speak for others, but my issue with Confederate statues isn't that they may or may not been slave owners. That's irrelevant ,to me.
I'm against honoring them because 1) they were traitors who fought for an evil purpose, and 2) they have become magnets for people who espouse decidedly Unamerican viewpoints.
Just as England doesn't honor George Washington, or Germany doesn't honor Hitler, there is no reason to honor people who committed treason.
Attempting to compare people who fought to free us from tyranny to those who fought to keep a large portion of the population enslaved is not only ludicrous, but it lessens the person who makes such a claim.
Few Confederate leaders or soldiers were evil, but what they fought for was.
When it comes to a fight between good and evil, I chose to be on the side of good.
Last week in Virginia you had one side that wants to kill blacks and minorities, and go back to an era that never existed, and on the other were those who opposed them.
It doesn't get much clearer.
"As He died to make men holy, let us die to make them free."
It's what you do and not what you say If you're not part of the future then get out of the way
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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ck1313
August 18th, 2017 at 12:46:58 PM permalink
I will not participate in this thread other than to say posters are accusing each other of made-up facts, then posting made-up facts of their own.

I'd caution anyone reading and posting to check all your 'facts' and provide sources.
"Baccarat is a game whereby the croupier gathers in money with a flexible sculling oar, then rakes it home. If I could have borrowed his oar I would have stayed." .......... Mark Twain
Neutrino
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August 18th, 2017 at 12:57:52 PM permalink
Alt-left is out of control
billryan
billryan
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August 18th, 2017 at 1:00:29 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

I will not participate in this thread other than to say posters are accusing each other of made-up facts, then posting made-up facts of their own.

I'd caution anyone reading and posting to check all your 'facts' and provide sources.




Please point out one made up fact in my response. Please.

My Facts come from Grants autobiography where he discusses his slave problem. Deeply in debt himself, he is given a slave by someone who owes him money.
His father in law suggests they sell the slave to get out of debt, but at a time when they still had debtors prisons, he frees the man.

Lee and slaves from Wiki.
In 1857, his father-in-law George Washington Parke Custis died, creating a serious crisis when Lee took on the burden of executing the will. Custis's will encompassed vast landholdings and hundreds of slaves balanced against massive debts, and required Custis's former slaves "to be emancipated by my executors in such manner as to my executors may seem most expedient and proper, the said emancipation to be accomplished in not exceeding five years from the time of my decease."[51] The estate was in disarray, and the plantations had been poorly managed and were losing money.
Lee tried to hire an overseer to handle the plantation in his absence, writing to his cousin, "I wish to get an energetic honest farmer, who while he will be considerate & kind to the negroes, will be firm & make them do their duty."[52] But Lee failed to find a man for the job, and had to take a two-year leave of absence from the army in order to run the plantation himself. He found the experience frustrating, since many of the slaves had been given to understand that they were to be made free as soon as Custis died, and protested angrily at the delay.[53] In May 1858, Lee wrote to his son Rooney, "I have had some trouble with some of the people. Reuben, Parks & Edward, in the beginning of the previous week, rebelled against my authority—refused to obey my orders, & said they were as free as I was, etc., etc.—I succeeded in capturing them & lodging them in jail. They resisted till overpowered & called upon the other people to rescue them."[52] Less than two months after they were sent to the Alexandria jail, Lee decided to remove these three men and three female house slaves from Arlington, and sent them under lock and key to the slave-trader William Overton Winston in Richmond, who was instructed to keep them in jail until he could find "good & responsible" slaveholders to work them until the end of the five-year period.[52]
The Norris case
In 1859, three of the Arlington slaves—Wesley Norris, his sister Mary, and a cousin of theirs—fled for the North, but were captured a few miles from the Pennsylvania border and forced to return to Arlington. On June 24, 1859, the anti-slavery newspaper New York Daily Tribune published two anonymous letters (dated June 19, 1859[54] and June 21, 1859[55]), each claiming to have heard that Lee had the Norrises whipped, and each going so far as to claim that the overseer refused to whip the woman but that Lee took the whip and flogged her personally. Lee privately wrote to his son Custis that "The N. Y. Tribune has attacked me for my treatment of your grandfather's slaves, but I shall not reply. He has left me an unpleasant legacy."[56]
Wesley Norris himself spoke out about the incident after the war, in an 1866 interview printed in an abolitionist newspaper, the National Anti-Slavery Standard. Norris stated that after they had been captured, and forced to return to Arlington, Lee told them that "he would teach us a lesson we would not soon forget." According to Norris, Lee then had the three of them firmly tied to posts by the overseer, and ordered them whipped with fifty lashes for the men and twenty for Mary Norris. Norris claimed that Lee encouraged the whipping, and that when the overseer refused to do it, called in the county constable to do it instead. Unlike the anonymous letter writers, he does not state that Lee himself whipped any of the slaves. According to Norris, Lee "frequently enjoined [Constable] Williams to 'lay it on well,' an injunction which he did not fail to heed; not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done
It's what you do and not what you say If you're not part of the future then get out of the way
boymimbo
boymimbo
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August 18th, 2017 at 1:10:17 PM permalink
Quote: Neutrino

Alt-left is out of control



Fact: The term Alt-left was made by the Alt-Right.

Quote: pbs


Who coined the term “alt-left?”

According to the Washington Post, the term “alt-left” was first used on conspiracy theory-pushing websites like WorldNetDaily. As early as August 2016, that site published an op-ed entitled “Let’s look at the alt left” that argued that the Democratic party was as racist as the right, and that it should be considered extreme because it welcomed into its ranks communists and socialists.

By December 2016, Fox News was also using the term “alt-left,” but in a different way, to argue that the mainstream left was out of step with the majority of Americans. As examples of the left’s radicalism, it cited that Democratic politicians had mourned the death of strongman Fidel Castro, and that the failures of Obamacare had been undercovered by the media.

As of April of this year, conservative commentator Sean Hannity had begun using the phrase in a third way — and in the same manner that Trump did on Tuesday. Hannity used “alt-left” to describe campus protests by left-leaning students, and specifically the fact that they had turned violent.

In Trump’s statements Tuesday, he characterized the “alt-left” as counter protesters who used violence, describing some who carried clubs.



I am for the statues staying. Just get rid of the people advancing white-supremacist and Nazi ideals who gravitate to these historical artifacts. Just erect one statue of Hitler instead in the middle of nowhere and let them advance their cause there.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
rxwine
rxwine
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OnceDear
August 18th, 2017 at 1:12:47 PM permalink
My firm and unchanged opinion.

Honor goes to the winners until further notice.
Losers get the museums, if they get anything.
prisoner of gravity
AceCrAAckers
AceCrAAckers
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August 18th, 2017 at 1:33:52 PM permalink
Why stop at just the Confederate monuments? Lets get rid of all monuments that honor slave owners.

I see that no one wants to address George Washington, the slave owning master. His plantation is preserved and we can get rid of this.

Jefferson had a paramour relation with at least one of his slave, resulting in a bastard child. We can tear down the Jefferson memorial.

Ford was a known anti-Semite. Don't drive a Ford. Mercedes and BMW helped the Nazi so don't drive them either. Mitsubishi help the Japs so let's not drive those cars either.

Where does all this self righteousness stop?

USA is the greatest country ever conceived by men. It is not perfect and the history shows this, but it is a work in progress and I pray that we are better tomorrow than we are today.
Edward Snowden is not the criminal, the government is for violating the constitution!
Skeptic
Skeptic
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August 18th, 2017 at 1:45:05 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Fact: The term Alt-left was made by the Alt-Right.



I wish you could take a step back and see how insane this sounds to normal people.

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