Trump's First 100 Days
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As far as I know, no hospital trauma center or ER turns away a patient who has been in an accident, whether or not they have insurance. They get treated.Quote: billryan
So who pays for the free emergency rooms and primary care?
Someone has a heart attack on the street and is rushed to an ER. Their stay can cost $100,000 in a day. A NYC hospital gets a dozen of these a day.
If the patient doesn't have insurance, EVERYONE ELSE pays for it. We already do that.
Quote: JohnnyQAs far as I know, no hospital trauma center or ER turns away a patient who has been in an accident, whether or not they have insurance. They get treated.
If the patient doesn't have insurance, EVERYONE ELSE pays for it. We already do that.
So really, the government should plan ahead, and charge everyone to pay for this emergency and preventative healthcare, rather than just the other users of the facilities that provide emergency card but aren't able to get paid for it from all of the users.
Not health insurance, but rather the most basic preventative universal healthcare and emergency medicine. Anything outside of that, people could electively buy insurance on the open market, and you should have to demonstrate an ability to pay for these non-basic services, either through insurance or direct payment, before receiving them.
Quote: billryanSimple solutions for simple minds.
So who pays for the free emergency rooms and primary care?
Someone has a heart attack on the street and is rushed to an ER. Their stay can cost $100,000 in a day. A NYC hospital gets a dozen of these a day.
Agreed. I'm also thinking of an Ebola or some other communicable disease situation where someone may not want to get care because it's not considered an emergency and spreads it around and it gets out of control.
Quote: JohnnyQAs far as I know, no hospital trauma center or ER turns away a patient who has been in an accident, whether or not they have insurance. They get treated.
If the patient doesn't have insurance, EVERYONE ELSE pays for it. We already do that.
And if the person does have insurance but hasnt paid more into the insurance pool than the cost of the medical care then who pays for it? You dont think its the insurance companies do you? Its everyone else who get hit with higher premiums
Quote: terapinedTrump quote throughout his campaign at stop after stop.
""We're going to have insurance for everybody. There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can't pay for it, you don't get it. That's not going to happen with us, can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better."
If the CBO office came out and totally agreed with Trump regarding the new bill
I have no doubt Shumer, AMS , terapined (me), the entire country , would get behind Trump
The bottom line is Trump aint getting it done as he said he would. Cheaper and better.
The CBO estimates are higher costs and loss of insurance for millions
If Trump walks the walk due to his statements
I am all behind Trump
This bill that was not voted on is nowhere near what Trump has said he would get done at campaign stop after campaign stop
Point one- Trump just made that sh+t up. If he was going to insure everyone it would cost more than insuring most everyone.
Point two- You are naive. NO MATTER WHAT TRUMP PUT FORTH Shumer and ams would oppose it. NO MATTER WHAT! Because you are not bound to an anti-Trump agenda at all costs doesn't mean others aren't.
Point three- I would bet costs (for the federal government) would go down, as fewer freebies and subsidies would mean lower costs. Likely the states and counties would end up picking up the tab.
Point four- Trump is not the dictator of the USA, he is the President. He can not put a single piece of legislation on his own desk, it is up to Congress to do that. Of course he is not going to get everything he wants, because Congress will not let him, even a Republican controlled Congress. The Obamacare repeal is just the first such example. I think this is a good sign for the country. I am slightly less afraid that Trump will be able to railroad through whatever he wants.
As I have said many times, our country runs best when 2 of the 3 (Senate, House, President) are Repub and 1Dem, or 2 of the 3 are Dem and 1 Repub. It REQUIRES compromise, which I believe is good for the USA.
Quote: JohnnyQAs far as I know, no hospital trauma center or ER turns away a patient who has been in an accident, whether or not they have insurance. They get treated.
If the patient doesn't have insurance, EVERYONE ELSE pays for it. We already do that.
Which is exactly why everyone should have insurance, and why government should be involved in it.
Everyone should be required to have an acceptable minimum amount, to cover such things and catastrophic needs.
Quote: JohnnyQAs far as I know, no hospital trauma center or ER turns away a patient who has been in an accident, whether or not they have insurance. They get treated.
If the patient doesn't have insurance, EVERYONE ELSE pays for it. We already do that.
There's the problem. If you don't have the insurance or can't pay, you DON'T get the service. Tough luck!!
Why is it expected for these people to service you weather you can pay or not but no other service is required to do so? I don't care what my job is, if you can't pay me, I'll turn you away.
Quote: rxwineOne might get the Democrats and Republicans to agree which conditions would benefit from preventive care and which do not. The Republicans might get on board for any treatment prevention that saves money in the long run.
You can't win many conservatives with health alone, but saving money might bring them over.
I can at least agree while preventive care in general is good to have for everyone, if we want to really attack costs we need to worry specifically about the measures that will decrease long term expense and not every health need.
That would be a step in the right direction, anyway, and even if it stopped there, that would still be basically fine.
I also agree that there is no absolute need to address every health need. When we talk about, 'Preventive Care,' then it needs to agreed upon what sorts of treatments/tests would constitute that. When we talk about, 'Emergency Care,' we're talking about things that are medically absolutely necessary or are necessary to promote the public health and thereby save on costs in the long run.
Anything except those things and you're going to need insurance, or to be covered by some sort of existing public program, at least, in the current framework. If you need some sort of medication for your heart to prevent a heart attack, then that will be provided for you. If you, 'Need,' pain pills, then you better have insurance. If something puts you in discomfort but is not going to kill you, no insurance, no surgery...that sort of thing.
Quote: Dalex64
Not health insurance, but rather the most basic preventative universal healthcare and emergency medicine. Anything outside of that, people could electively buy insurance on the open market, and you should have to demonstrate an ability to pay for these non-basic services, either through insurance or direct payment, before receiving them.
Well said, and basically what I would support, at least at this time. But, I'm a leftist extremist, apparently.
My point is that those basic preventative and emergency medicines need to be free whether you have insurance or not, unless it is at some kind of private hospital. The insurance is for everything else and the basic services are free no matter what.
And, no, they're not actually free, but they save costs. Also, if the services are in some way related to federal taxation of individuals and companies, then essentially anyone who pays taxes is paying their proportionate share of the services. I would think Republicans could get behind that. It's single-payer, but only on extremely limited stuff.
NOTE: I'd probably push to expand it somewhat beyond that, eventually, after it inevitably gets proven that such a system saves money in the long run, anyway.
Quote: IbeatyouracesThere's the problem. If you don't have the insurance or can't pay, you DON'T get the service. Tough luck!!
Why is it expected for these people to service you weather you can pay or not but no other service is required to do so? I don't care what my job is, if you can't pay me, I'll turn you away.
Something about the Hippocratic Oath:
Quote:I will prevent disease whenever I can but I will always look for a path to a cure for all diseases.
I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.
If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.
Just a few basic statements that don't seem to have a, "If they have proper coverage," caveat after them.
Quote: IbeatyouracesThere's the problem. If you don't have the insurance or can't pay, you DON'T get the service. Tough luck!!
Why is it expected for these people to service you weather you can pay or not but no other service is required to do so? I don't care what my job is, if you can't pay me, I'll turn you away.
Doctors literally take an oath that saying they can't just let someone die on the floor in front of them.
What next? Would you want a cop to just watch someone get assaulted because they haven't paid their taxes?
Quote: IbeatyouracesThere's the problem. If you don't have the insurance or can't pay, you DON'T get the service. Tough luck!!
Why is it expected for these people to service you weather you can pay or not but no other service is required to do so? I don't care what my job is, if you can't pay me, I'll turn you away.
There are other societal reasons
Guy pays taxes but doesnt make enough for coverage. Breaks his leg. Cant afford treatment. Out of work possibly permanently handicapped due to lack of proper treatment. Goes on medicaid and welfare. Guess who is paying now?
Someone with an infectious disease cant afford treatment winds up spreading disease everywhere (thats why ur local health clinic offers free std treatment usually)
Someone is refused treatment cause they cant pay winds up dying. You know what results in our litigious country. Lawsuit. Guess who winds up paying for that?
There are similar laws in most states about health related humanitarian requirements. The best example is most restaurants must supply you with a glass of water upon request. Yes it is tap water but if they refuse and insist you buy their bottled water most states Thats illegal. Someone drops dead of heat exhaustion because u refused a glass of water with your above comment and see how fast your establishment has a lawsuit
Quote: darkozAnd if the person does have insurance but hasnt paid more into the insurance pool than the cost of the medical care then who pays for it? You dont think its the insurance companies do you? Its everyone else who get hit with higher premiums
That's not how insurance works. The millions of people who never need to make a major claim subsidize the small percentage who do.
My house is insured for $300k, and I only pay $25/month for that privilege. If my house burned down tomorrow, it would take me over 800 years to pay $300k into the pool with my current premiums. So does that mean everyone else's premium goes up just because I make a claim? No, because premiums/deductibles of the entire pool are already designed to cover that cost.
Does the Federal Government add a payroll tax to cover the cost? Or do they pass it along to the different states?
It seems like those who support the above are in favor of government involvement, just to a lesser degree.
What is preventative medicine? Vaccines and flu shots probably qualify, but suppose someone doesn't get a flu shot but shows up with the flu?
If someone is 500 pounds, is gym membership preventative medicine?
What about a good pair of running shoes for someone who runs to keep in great shape?
Health care and what it entails is extremely complicated. There are no simple solutions.
Actually, there is one. Cradle to grave coverage for all , paid by taxes but we as a nation aren't ready for that.
I went to work for an auction house. After a period, I was given what was then called Hospitalization, which covered conditions that resulted in possibly ending up in a hospital. I was offered the opportunity to purchase a policy called Major Medical which would cover regular doctor visits, prescriptions and the like. Everyone I spoke to told me to save the $80 a month as I was young and healthy.
Fast forward a few years and I started my own company and need insurance for myself and my workers. My accountants tell me I should pay it for my two managers and offer it to my employees at cost. Shopped all around and getting strict Hospitalization was almost impossible.
Prices were in the low $200s but included physicals,gym membership, and deductibles for medicines and illnesses. In five years(1994-1999) the premiums went from around $230 to over $600.
In 2000, I went to work part time for another auction house and got a great plan through them. It was free that year but I was responsible for any future increase. Within a few years, I was paying three hundred and change.
In 2005 I was thrown off it when the insurance company decided not to cover part timers.
At almost fifty, I found myself looking for an individual policy and getting quotes close to $1000 a month.
I ended up paying $780 with a $50 per doctor visit deductible, and $20 per prescription. It went up about 15% a year until Obama care came along.
Under it my costs went down to less than half, with no deductible and free prescriptions.
Once the ground rules were understood, I even managed to get a partial tax credit for it.
Had the GOP plan gone through, I'd have lost the credits and end up going to the VA. Of course, there would be no funding in the plan for the huge increase in numbers the poorly written plan would have pushed into the VA.
Quote: billryan
At almost fifty, I found myself looking for an individual policy and getting quotes close to $1000 a month.
I ended up paying $780 with a $50 per doctor visit deductible, and $20 per prescription. It went up about 15% a year until Obama care came along.
Under it my costs went down to less than half, with no deductible and free prescriptions.
Once the ground rules were understood, I even managed to get a partial tax credit for it.
Of course YOUR costs went down! Because MY (taxpayer) costs went up. It's why the Repubs don't stand a chance when (if) they eliminate Obamacare. Once you give someone something for free (or deep discount) they think they are entitled to it forever. You think those 'free prescriptions' grow on trees?
As I've said for a few years.... just be honest my Dem friends.... say Obamacare is good for the country, it insures or helps insure lots of Americans who cannot otherwise afford health insurance, but it is EXPENSIVE. We will either raise taxes or cut spending on other stuff to pay for it.
As Obama made the Bush tax cuts permanent, I'm not sure why you think your taxes went up. Mine didn't.
Most of my savings came because instead of having to buy a policy from a for profit company, I was able to join an exchange that gave me the advantage of belonging to a group as opposed to buying as an individual, and was run as a not for profit organization.
Quote: SOOPOOPoint two- You are naive. NO MATTER WHAT TRUMP PUT FORTH Shumer and ams would oppose it. NO MATTER WHAT! Because you are not bound to an anti-Trump agenda at all costs doesn't mean others aren't.
Not true.
I didn't oppose TrumpCare because Trump put it forth (he didn't - Paul Ryan did).
I opposed it because IT WAS AN AWFUL BILL. A tax cut for the rich dressed up as a healthcare bill.
I've said it before: Republicans can't put forward a decent healthcare bill because they consider access to healthcare a privilege and not a right.
If Republicans can come up with a plan that covers all essential services and lowers costs/deductibles, doesn't take away anyone's insurance, doesn't discriminate against those with preexisting conditions, and doesn't raise taxes on the middle class - I'd be all for it. But these are Republicans we're talking about.... I'm not holding my breath.
"Melania Trump thinks she's too bitchin to live in white house--
That scarecrow needs to come down off her self-made pedestal and march her scrawny ass down to DC
if she wants SS protection...
Taxpayers are NOT obligated to pay for each family member to live in umpteen places at out expense.
We provide a place, The WH where they can live and be protected...that's enough..If she has to live in NY then
Trump should pay for it not us."
_________________
Good point!
I bet Donald's orange face turned white when he saw that breaking news...
Clever, clever Putin: strike while your enemy is in disarray.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/25/gen_flynn_hillary_clinton_shouldnt_be_too_big_to_jail.html
Mike Flynn 2017: "I will testify in exchange for immunity."
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mike-flynn-willing-testify-return-immunity-n740836
Fake news tho, rite?
Quote: MaxPenThis makes it easy to understand why so many are confused.
Too many weird drugs floating around in this country causing the hallucinations above.
I thought that was Objective E on his Day One schedule. In between repealing Obama care and tearing up the
Iran Nuke deal. They should be distant memories by now. Just like his other accomplishments
Steve Mnuchin, Trump's Treasury Secretary.
From not-fake-news ABC News link:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/steve-mnuchin/story?id=43858317
"Mnuchin was a member of the exclusive Skull and Bones secret society at Yale, as were George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush and John Kerry."
We all remember "I know more about ISIS than the generals do. Believe me.", so obviously that is going to take a lot of time to do the job of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in addition to his own duties, which mostly seem to involve watching cable news and tweeting outlandish false claims.Quote: Dalex64Maybe he is too busy defeating ISIS.
Also, I think it has to be time consuming to have a team of aides help pull his head out of his ass every morning, and then can you imagine how long it would take to fix his hair after that ?
Imagine if an actual Republican had gotten in.... he might have actually accomplished something by day 70!
"When will Sleepy Eyes Chuck Todd and @NBCNews start
talking about the Obama SURVEILLANCE SCANDAL and stop
with the Fake Trump/Russia story?"
source
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
WtF ? ? ?
OK, some Possible Answers, it is actually a 2 part question:
1) Uh, Never because OBAMA didn't "tapp" the phones in your idiot Tower. But yes, RUSSKIES are under surveillance and that includes when they call someone who was in your transition team.
2) When the Congressional Investigations on Russian meddling are over and reported and the American public has the facts ( just facts please, not "alternative facts" ) ?
- No one really thinks Trump was directly involved with Russian agents first-hand.
- Everyone thinks that Russia was meddling in our election process.
- PUTIN wanted to work with a trump administration, and not a CLINTON administration, because it will be easier for Putin to get what he wants from trump than Clinton.
- If nothing else, the credibility of the office of the President of the USA has taken a nose dive right into the stinkin toilet. I think that is one of the things PUTIN wanted.
Quote: JohnnyQTWEET QUOTE:
"When will Sleepy Eyes Chuck Todd and @NBCNews start
talking about the Obama SURVEILLANCE SCANDAL and stop
with the Fake Trump/Russia story?"
source
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
WtF ? ? ?
WTF indeed! trumpy really did tweet that today ( I thought it was an April Fools joke )
He also tweeted
Quote: theRealKnobHead"..not associated with Russia. Trump team spied on before he was nominated." If this is true, does not get much bigger. Would be sad for U.S."
The idiot is delusional.
Quote: OnceDearThe idiot is delusional.
That's been common knowledge since the 80's.
Quote: IbeatyouracesThat's been common knowledge since the 80's.
Wasn't common enough for 30+ states to have the majority of their voting citizens select him as president.
I really cannot see a good outcome to trumpy passing through the Whitehouse.
Blagging it, doubling down, getting clever, learning, getting impeached, stomping off, getting stabbed in the back, falling off his perch. . . No conceivable outcome is a happy ending to this state of presidential insanity.
You can fool some of the people all of the time.Quote: SOOPOOWasn't common enough for 30+ states to have the majority of their voting citizens select him as president.
Quote: SOOPOOWasn't common enough for 30+ states to have the majority of their voting citizens select him as president.
This isn't the brightness country in the world, you know this right?
Potus tweeted this
Quote: potus
Watch LIVE as @POTUS signs executive orders regarding trade: http://45.wh.gov/EMvuty
It links to a video on the whitehouse's facebook page.
What does it show. . .
Yup, Potus walking out of the room and away from the press.
The EO's were later signed in private, or at least if we are stupid enough to believe a word out of that place.
Quote: IbeatyouracesThis isn't the brightness country in the world, you know this right?
Thank goodness we have this thread to lead us through this troubled democracy. Truly the salvation of America, right here on WoV...amazing!!
Quote: IbeatyouracesThis isn't the brightness country in the world, you know this right?
I wouldn't go out of my way to offend a whole nation, even though in aggregate, they were fooled into choosing the worst of the worst candidates, with a selection process that seemed to go out of its way to rule out anyone remotely qualified.
Your wonderful nation and it's citizens can have my sympathy while at the same time I can despair at your monumental f up.
Quote: SOOPOOWasn't common enough for 30+ states to have the majority of their voting citizens select him as president.
I like how you can't even say "the majority of Americans" because Donald lost the popular vote bigly.
Quote: OnceDearI wouldn't go out of my way to offend a whole nation, even though in aggregate, they were fooled into choosing the worst of the worst candidates, with a selection process that seemed to go out of its way to rule out anyone remotely qualified.
Your wonderful nation and it's citizens can have my sympathy while at the same time I can despair at your monumental f up.
You cannot offend something when you speak the truth about it.
The guy conned and scammed the nation like he did with his "university." He's just another Carleton Sheets or Russ Whitney except on a grander scale.
That doesn't say much for Americans, their education system or their electoral process, which propelled him to power.
I'd like to think that there are still lots of great, honest, upstanding and intelligent Americans, who are ashamed for their own nation's failure.
Sadly, there are still some who will never learn what is as plain as it can be. I guess in a country of 100s of millions, you are entitled to a few tens of millions of ignorant fools.
Oh well, we are where we are. This will look far worse before it looks better.
According to the Prophecies, our next president will be Lisa Simpson.
Wing as an unpaid advisor. I love even more
that the press is having a cow over it. She's
unpaid, she has no power to do anything,
yet you'd think he hired a KGB agent.
Speaking of that, when is the proof of the
Russia connection coming out, people are
getting bored. It's almost like there is no
connection except in the medias fantasies.
A business leader who's name escapes me
once said, if you want to run a successful
empire, have lots of children. They will be
they only people you can trust later on.
I'm sure Trump has found that to be more
than true.
