Will Trump Be Impeached ?
Poll
 | 20 votes (32.25%) | ||
| | 42 votes (67.74%) |
62 members have voted
It was a sideshow. A guy that everyone knew was going to be arrested just showing up for processing was not a big enough show. I am wondering if CNN asked them to do it up right.
It is hard to believe that, on this one issue, people are defending the need for that show of force.
Quote: RonCThe whole lame argument "for" the way they proceeded to arrest Stone ignores the fact that there was no need to actually go out and arrest him without offering him the chance to surrender. Many people are given that option in these kinds of cases--where they have not committed a violent act--and it saves the need for even the minimal force of a few officers (they do have to protect themselves, of course). The red herring of "Stone trained for this and that" is just silly--lots of people are trained in many things that they could use--but it does not justify the time and expense spent to pick up Stone.
It was a sideshow. A guy that everyone knew was going to be arrested just showing up for processing was not a big enough show. I am wondering if CNN asked them to do it up right.
It is hard to believe that, on this one issue, people are defending the need for that show of force.
I'm defending the right of professional LEOs to decide what they need to do, from those attacking them without knowing anything about it. Nice projection, though. And nice further undercutting of their professionalism.
Quote: RonCThe whole lame argument "for" the way they proceeded to arrest Stone ignores the fact that there was no need to actually go out and arrest him without offering him the chance to surrender. Many people are given that option in these kinds of cases--where they have not committed a violent act--and it saves the need for even the minimal force of a few officers (they do have to protect themselves, of course). The red herring of "Stone trained for this and that" is just silly--lots of people are trained in many things that they could use--but it does not justify the time and expense spent to pick up Stone.
It was a sideshow. A guy that everyone knew was going to be arrested just showing up for processing was not a big enough show. I am wondering if CNN asked them to do it up right.
It is hard to believe that, on this one issue, people are defending the need for that show of force.
They weren't going to warn him because they were going to collect records/files. A polite entry means the possibility of waiting several minutes for someone to get to the door, or for records to be destroyed.
You can argue excessive force wasn't necessary, but missing files (tapes Nixon, emails Hillary) become a source of conspiracy for years for some people.
Standing outside a door waiting for the guy to open it would have been folly.
Quote: beachbumbabsI'm defending the right of professional LEOs to decide what they need to do, from those attacking them without knowing anything about it. Nice projection, though. And nice further undercutting of their professionalism.
Your comment is out of line. Suspend yourself.
I fully support LEOs. I served 21 1/2 years in the Marine Corps and I fully respect people willing to put their lives on the line for other people.
What I don't respect, and what you seem to defend, is the politic use of those same LEO's to make a good looking report on CNN. The LEOs did the job they were called on to do and they did it very well. That isn't the point. Why was CNN there? Why didn't they just conduct the arrest without coverage?
Roger Stone does not stand accused of a violent crime. He knew he was going to be arrested; just not the exact date. If you really want to arrest someone without incident and with the full force of a large group of LEO's, you don't tell them in advance. That would only give him a chance to do something stupid if he was prone to do so.
Since he knew he was to be arrested, why would you not simply have him turn himself in to authorities as so many others are allowed to do? The same exact standard apples to all those "Varsity Blues" folks...arrests of that type are mostly a show.
The part no one seems to remember is that all the publicity surrounding arrests can never be undone. That person is considered guilty in the minds of many no matter what happens after the well-publicized arrest because many times the rest of the case gets lost in the sauce. I favor more publicity upon conviction and much less upon arrest because people are innocent until proven guilty.
Quote: rxwineThey weren't going to warn him because they were going to collect records/files. A polite entry means the possibility of waiting several minutes for someone to get to the door, or for records to be destroyed.
You can argue excessive force wasn't necessary, but missing files (tapes Nixon, emails Hillary) become a source of conspiracy for years for some people.
Standing outside a door waiting for the guy to open it would have been folly.
Stone knew they were coming for him. He had lots of time to destroy evidence.
Again, if he was that dangerous and/or had stuff that he might destroy, it might have been better for him to not know arrest was imminent.
Quote: RonCStone knew they were coming for him. He had lots of time to destroy evidence.
Again, if he was that dangerous and/or had stuff that he might destroy, it might have been better for him to not know arrest was imminent.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/why-fbi-sent-so-many-agents-roger-stones-home
Quote: RonCYour comment is out of line. Suspend yourself.
I fully support LEOs. I served 21 1/2 years in the Marine Corps and I fully respect people willing to put their lives on the line for other people.
What I don't respect, and what you seem to defend, is the politic use of those same LEO's to make a good looking report on CNN. The LEOs did the job they were called on to do and they did it very well. That isn't the point. Why was CNN there? Why didn't they just conduct the arrest without coverage?
Roger Stone does not stand accused of a violent crime. He knew he was going to be arrested; just not the exact date. If you really want to arrest someone without incident and with the full force of a large group of LEO's, you don't tell them in advance. That would only give him a chance to do something stupid if he was prone to do so.
Since he knew he was to be arrested, why would you not simply have him turn himself in to authorities as so many others are allowed to do? The same exact standard apples to all those "Varsity Blues" folks...arrests of that type are mostly a show.
The part no one seems to remember is that all the publicity surrounding arrests can never be undone. That person is considered guilty in the minds of many no matter what happens after the well-publicized arrest because many times the rest of the case gets lost in the sauce. I favor more publicity upon conviction and much less upon arrest because people are innocent until proven guilty.
More shoot-the-messenger nonsense. YOU, AND I, and everybody not briefed on the situation, are NOT qualified to decide how the FBI should conduct an arrest. I don't tell the Marines how to do their job, either. But nothing in their MOS makes them the boss of the FBI. So, stand down, Marine, and stop insulting me.
If CNN wanted to pay a camera crew to stake out Stone's house, so what. Journalists do that all the time. They got lucky in this instance and got some footage. Might have been a waste of time and money. Some how the conspiracy nuts have made this nothingburger into a Whopper.
I agree about perp walks. I think they're prejudicial. I guess that goes to 1st Amendment issues.
Quote: rxwinehttps://www.lawfareblog.com/why-fbi-sent-so-many-agents-roger-stones-home
Again, if they thought he was going to destroy evidence, they needed to get there sooner than he did. He had lots of time to destroy evidence before they arrived...didn't he testify in November or something like that?
I agree...and y'all seem to ignore this part...that once they decided to arrest him at his home, they needed to take proper precautions.
My point is that:
--They didn't need to do that at all; he should have been allowed to turn himself in
--They did't need to bring CNN
Perhaps we can disagree on the former, but the latter was absolutely showboating.
Quote: RonCAgain, if they thought he was going to destroy evidence, they needed to get there sooner than he did. He had lots of time to destroy evidence before they arrived...didn't he testify in November or something like that?
I agree...and y'all seem to ignore this part...that once they decided to arrest him at his home, they needed to take proper precautions.
My point is that:
--They didn't need to do that at all; he should have been allowed to turn himself in
--They did't need to bring CNN
Perhaps we can disagree on the former, but the latter was absolutely showboating.
I'm not sure what you mean by warning him. As far as I know he was threatened with arrest because of contempt, not because they warned him about an imminent search.
So essentially they didn't warn him any more than a drug dealer who has prior altercations with police because of his behavior before a big bust. That's not a warning either.. I have no idea if CNN was tipped off or issued a formal invitation. I'm thinking they were tipped off, not formal. I don't think they were invited, but maybe you can find otherwise.
Quote: beachbumbabsSo, stand down, Marine, and stop insulting me.
I insulted you? No, I challenged you position and what you said that I was doing. I wasn't doing that at all.
Last I heard, I am allowed to disagree with the way government uses power. I disagree with how they used power in this case. I was not disrespecting LEOs. I found that comment insulting. Not a "personal insult", just insulting. I made a comment about it, knowing that it was not a personal insult, just that it was out of line in my opinion.
Quote: beachbumbabsIf CNN wanted to pay a camera crew to stake out Stone's house, so what. Journalists do that all the time. They got lucky in this instance and got some footage. Might have been a waste of time and money. Some how the conspiracy nuts have made this nothingburger into a Whopper.
Law enforcement would have told CNN to move back for their own protection; even if it was just "good journalism", it is unlikely that they would have been allowed that close under normal circumstances.
Quote: beachbumbabsI agree about perp walks. I think they're prejudicial. I guess that goes to 1st Amendment issues.
I don't think there is any way to restrict people from reporting on arrests and such. Allowing non-violent offenders to turn themselves in--and not releasing the timing of the event--is one way to keep it from being as sensational for coverage. It would still be a story, but not with folks being walked in front of the cameras with handcuffs to be a show.
Quote: rxwineI'm not sure what you mean by warning him. As far as I know he was threatened with arrest because of contempt, not because they warned him about an imminent search.
So essentially they didn't warn him any more than a drug dealer who has prior altercations with police because of his behavior before a big bust. That's not a warning either.. I have no idea if CNN was tipped off or issued a formal invitation. I'm thinking they were tipped off, not formal. I don't think they were invited, but maybe you can find otherwise.
He testified in front of the Grand Jury. He knew what was asked of him and what he told them. This was months ago. That is why I am saying that he had plenty of time to destroy any evidence he may have had physical control over. Some evidence was gathered from the iCloud and other places.
Nice try, comparing him to a drug dealer.
Quote: RonCHe testified in front of the Grand Jury. He knew what was asked of him and what he told them. This was months ago. That is why I am saying that he had plenty of time to destroy any evidence he may have had physical control over. Some evidence was gathered from the iCloud and other places.
Nice try, comparing him to a drug dealer.
Doesn't matter,
If there is no probable cause to initiate a warrant it can sit there for an eternity. Besides people often have reasons not to wholesale destroy records until the last possible minute. Law enforcement could consider a receipt from some event roger stone attended evidence that he was somewhere he had previously said he was not. That's how simple the evidence can be in proving a chain of events. It can even be difficult to guess what you need to destroy.
Quote: beachbumbabsI'm defending the right of professional LEOs to decide what they need to do, from those attacking them without knowing anything about it. Nice projection, though. And nice further undercutting of their professionalism.
If you are supporting LEO's carte blanche, you are supporting some unconstitutional and despicable acts.
https://www.latimes.com/nation/atf-fast-furious-sg-storygallery.html
Quote: TigerWuThe FBI didn't "bring" CNN with them. CNN was staking out Stone's house because they knew something was going to happen soon. Journalism 101. They literally explained all this like the day it happened.
I can’t believe some people are still questioning this.
Quote: ams288Quote: TigerWuThe FBI didn't "bring" CNN with them. CNN was staking out Stone's house because they knew something was going to happen soon. Journalism 101. They literally explained all this like the day it happened.
I can’t believe some people are still questioning this.
It's because fake news is an addiction.
Quote: RSLol, CNN showed up an hour before the raid? Seems legit to me!!
Stone has security video with CNN
showing up an hour early. With
them knowing the time frame, it
was the FBI that called CNN.
Quote: RSLol, CNN showed up an hour before the raid? Seems legit to me!!
If you actually read the article I linked to it would make perfect sense.
Quote: EvenBobStone has security video with CNN showing up an hour early. With them knowing the time frame, it was the FBI that called CNN.
Even if CNN was tipped off, what evidence is there that it was the FBI and not anyone else involved with the indictment? Perhaps it must have been the FBI and no one else because Trump has spent over two years Draining The Swamp?
Quote: TigerWuIf you actually read the article I linked to it would make perfect sense.
I did read it, which is where they said they got there an hour early. 5am arrival vs 6am raid, IIRC.
I’m not just going to automatically believe an article that’s inherently self-preservative, especially when we’re talking about CNN - the enemy of the people.
Quote: TomGEven if CNN was tipped off,
'Even if?' The FBI is super tight lipped
about raids like this, they don't want
any chance of it reaching the victim.
Of course it was the FBI who called
their man at CNN, they wanted this
on TV to make Trump look bad.
Quote: EvenBob'Even if?' The FBI is super tight lipped about raids like this, they don't want any chance of it reaching the victim. Of course it was the FBI who called their man at CNN, they wanted this on TV to make Trump look bad.Quote: TomGEven if CNN was tipped off,
I love that you are now so absolutely sure there was no one else involved in the indictment other than the FBI that wanted to make Trump look bad. I also love that the only evidence you have that the FBI must have been the ones to have tipped off CNN is because CNN was tipped off. That's like saying the FBI must have assassinated Kennedy because Kennedy was assassinated.
the Left was in Mueller getting Trump and
his family. It was Hillary all over again. CNN
and MS pumping up the mythmobile and
getting crushed by it.
There are dozens of these out there,
all so hopeful and full of glee.
Quote: beachbumbabsI'm defending the right of professional LEOs to decide what they need to do, from those attacking them without knowing anything about it. Nice projection, though. And nice further undercutting of their professionalism.
We'll see how you stand by that comment later this year.😀
Quote: MaxPenWe'll see how you stand by that comment later this year.😀
Why so cryptic? Do enlighten us.
Avenatti
Got
Arrested
Edit: Turns out that's old news. Still worthy of a post though.
Remember how everyone was saying how avenatti was a Godsend? Or mueller? Seems like buncha fools who keep trying to stunt on #45 keep getting rekt. I wonder if anything will show up for mueller? Probably not, but given the track record...
Quote: RSMichael
Avenatti
Got
Arrested
Quoting the moronic Don Jr. is kind of a new low point.
If that's what Max was referring to, Avenatti's on his own there. Sounded like extortion of Nike to me, too.
Quote: beachbumbabsQuote: RSMichael
Avenatti
Got
Arrested
Quoting the moronic Don Jr. is kind of a new low point.
If that's what Max was referring to, Avenatti's on his own there. Sounded like extortion of Nike to me, too.
I stole it from a member on another forum. Also I edited my post. Also idk what Max was referring to, if anything specific or more general (I figured the more general, though).
You gotta admit though, it is a pretty catchy quote.
"Puerto Rico got 91 Billion Dollars for the hurricane, more money than has ever been gotten for a hurricane before, & all their local politicians do is complain & ask for more money. The pols are grossly incompetent, spend the money foolishly or corruptly, & only take from USA...."
Quote: TigerWuDonald Trump lies about how much money PR got for the hurricane, then forgets they are a U.S. territory:
"Puerto Rico got 91 Billion Dollars for the hurricane, more money than has ever been gotten for a hurricane before, & all their local politicians do is complain & ask for more money. The pols are grossly incompetent, spend the money foolishly or corruptly, & only take from USA...."
I just yelled about this in one of the other political threads. Surprised you couldn't hear me over here. :)
Quote: beachbumbabs
I just yelled about this in one of the other political threads. Surprised you couldn't hear me over here. :)
I only pop into the political threads every once in a while nowadays. Usually I have them blocked.
*sigh* Remember when Dan Quayle misspelled "potato" and it practically ended his political career? I miss those days....
Now we have Trump that makes gaffs ten times worse than that ten times a day, and nobody cares. Sad.
Quote: TigerWuI only pop into the political threads every once in a while nowadays. Usually I have them blocked.
*sigh* Remember when Dan Quayle misspelled "potato" and it practically ended his political career? I miss those days....
Now we have Trump that makes gaffs ten times worse than that ten times a day, and nobody cares. Sad.
Nope. We do not care about a gaffe. We care about results. We like peace and prosperity. We care that he wants to protect the border.
Obama "spoke well" but delivered awful results. Slow economy and dropped bombs all over the place. I'll take the results over the toastmaster.
Quote: AZDuffmanNope. We do not care about a gaffe. We care about results. We like peace and prosperity. We care that he wants to protect the border.
.
Why bother, they'll never 'get it'. I
think it's funny that almost anything
triggers them into name calling
frenzies. It's like winning the election
all over again.. Wait till Trump wins
in 2020, the angst, the horror..
Quote: EvenBobWhy bother, they'll never 'get it'. I
think it's funny that almost anything
triggers them into name calling
frenzies. It's like winning the election
all over again.. Wait till Trump wins
in 2020, the angst, the horror..
It is like they are buying plots of land in Glengary Islands because they are mesmerized by the slick talking salesman. They guy dresses right and drive a Cadillac Eldorado. Uses all kinds of great words. The land is a rip-off, any sane person can see that. But they fall for the slick salesman because he sounds so good.
Quote: EvenBobI
think it's funny that almost anything
triggers them into name calling
frenzies.
I think it's funny that almost anything
triggers Trump into name calling
frenzies such as Lyin Ted, Mr Magoo (Sessions) , Sloppy Steve ect
Quote: AZDuffmanNope. We do not care about a gaffe. We care about results. We like peace and prosperity. We care that he wants to protect the border.
Unless it's a minority/woman/Democrat in question. Then it's "57 STATES!! TAN SUIT!! MUSTARD!! BUT HER EMAILS!!" alllll day long.
P.S. Trump doesn't want to protect the border. He doesn't give a s*** about protecting you or anyone else in the U.S. All he cares about is himself. I'm amazed that it's been over two years and people are still falling for his schtick hook line and sinker. Sad.
Quote:Obama "spoke well" but delivered awful results.
I remember like a year and a half ago I asked you how Obama had "destroyed" our country. You couldn't name ONE SINGLE THING he had done that supposedly hurt the country. You just said, "Look around you." When I continued to press you, the only thing you could come up with was that "unemployment was terrible", which which quickly proven false. Then you quickly changed the subject and then told me to go take an economics class....LOL
By the way, I have actually taken several economics classes since then, and wow, color me surprised when I found out you're full of s***.
Quote:Slow economy
LOL Tell that to my 401k returns and plummeting unemployment rates EVERY SINGLE YEAR of his Presidency.
Quote:and dropped bombs all over the place.
....which Trump continued to do.
Quote:I'll take the results over the toastmaster.
I'll take results over Trump.
Still waitin' for all this "winning"..... LOL Maybe someday we'll have an adult in the White House again. I'd even take four more years of W. over this.
Quote: TigerWuUnless it's a minority/woman/Democrat in question. Then it's "57 STATES!! TAN SUIT!! MUSTARD!! BUT HER EMAILS!!" alllll day long.
What do you not get about what was criminal about her homebrew server? If not for a crooked FBI head she might have done time. She got people killed. Nations around the world had access. But to you it is a joke?
Quote:P.S. Trump doesn't want to protect the border. He doesn't give a s*** about protecting you or anyone else in the U.S. All he cares about is himself. I'm amazed that it's been over two years and people are still falling for his schtick hook line and sinker. Sad.
If he only cared about himself he would never have ran. He would have retired and lived in comfort. He would not have signed on for all the abuse.
Quote:I remember like a year and a half ago I asked you how Obama had "destroyed" our country. You couldn't name ONE SINGLE THING he had done that supposedly hurt the country. You just said, "Look around you." When I continued to press you, the only thing you could come up with was that "unemployment was terrible", which which quickly proven false. Then you quickly changed the subject and then told me to go take an economics class....LOL
By the way, I have actually taken several economics classes since then, and wow, color me surprised when I found out you're full of s***.
Boston University?
I still say look around you. Look at the racism Obama stirred on college campuses. The formation of BLM. Open hatred of white history. Look at how manufacturing contracted under him. His open desire to run industries he did not like out of business (e.g.: coal.) He added what, 10 trillion in debt? $800+ billion on a useless "stimulus." Not to mention the disaster of Obamacare.
Fortunately, Trump is cleaning up after him far better than expected. What part of peace and prosperity are you upset about under Trump? Don't like job creation? Manufacturing booming? Your tax cut? (Unless you are higher income in a blue state like CA, said states are finally paying their fair share.) Better trade deals? What exactly? What have your econ classes taught?
Quote: AZDuffmanNope. We do not care about a gaffe.
Quick! Someone do a search of the forum for “Obama 57 states” and see if the righties truly “do not care about a gaffe.”
The bad faith gaslighting by some members never fails to amaze me.
Quote: ams288Quick! Someone do a search of the forum for “Obama 57 states” and see if the righties truly “do not care about a gaffe.”
The bad faith gaslighting by some members never fails to amaze me.
We point that out because lefties say how intelligent and well spoken Obama is. It shows he is not.
Quote: EvenBob
Of course it was the FBI who called
their man at CNN, they wanted this
on TV to make Trump look bad.
FBI Refuses Records Request For Emails To CNN On Day Of Roger Stone Arrest
https://thefederalist.com/2019/04/02/fbi-refuses-records-requests-for-e-mails-to-cnn-on-day-of-roger-stone-raid/
I quote part
Quote:The FBI on Tuesday rejected an open records request from The Federalist for any and all emails sent to or from CNN the day of the pre-dawn raid at the home of Roger Stone
the FBI also rejected a separate FOIA request from The Federalist which specifically requested any and all FBI emails on the day of the Stone raid sent to or from Josh Campbell, a former FBI employee who worked under James Comey, former director of the FBI, and now works as a law enforcement analyst for CNN, as well as any and all emails from that day specifically mentioning Roger Stone.
Hmmm, what are they hiding? Could it be that the FBI did notify CNN?
Quote: FleaswatterFBI Refuses Records Request For Emails To CNN On Day Of Roger Stone Arrest
Yawn
Much ado about nothing
Standard operating procedure for anybody that gathers and reports news
Quote: EvenBob
Why bother, they'll never 'get it'. I
think it's funny that almost anything
triggers them into name calling
frenzies. It's like winning the election
all over again.. Wait till Trump wins
in 2020, the angst, the horror..
Quote: AZDuffmanIt is like they are buying plots of land in Glengary Islands because they are mesmerized by the slick talking salesman. They guy dresses right and drive a Cadillac Eldorado. Uses all kinds of great words. The land is a rip-off, any sane person can see that. But they fall for the slick salesman because he sounds so good.
Laughable amount of projection from both of you. Sad, though, really. Covfefe rules.
Quote: terapinedYawn
Much ado about nothing
Standard operating procedure for anybody that gathers and reports news
LOL
For someone who claims to want to READ everything, it is obvious from your ridiculous response you did not actually read my link,
Quote: TigerWuUnless it's a minority/woman/Democrat in question. Then it's "57 STATES!! TAN SUIT!! MUSTARD!! BUT HER EMAILS!!" alllll day long.
P.S. Trump doesn't want to protect the border. He doesn't give a s*** about protecting you or anyone else in the U.S. All he cares about is himself. I'm amazed that it's been over two years and people are still falling for his schtick hook line and sinker. Sad.
I remember like a year and a half ago I asked you how Obama had "destroyed" our country. You couldn't name ONE SINGLE THING he had done that supposedly hurt the country. You just said, "Look around you." When I continued to press you, the only thing you could come up with was that "unemployment was terrible", which which quickly proven false. Then you quickly changed the subject and then told me to go take an economics class....LOL
By the way, I have actually taken several economics classes since then, and wow, color me surprised when I found out you're full of s***.
LOL Tell that to my 401k returns and plummeting unemployment rates EVERY SINGLE YEAR of his Presidency.
....which Trump continued to do.
I'll take results over Trump.
Still waitin' for all this "winning"..... LOL Maybe someday we'll have an adult in the White House again. I'd even take four more years of W. over this.
Don’t forget about kiddy diddler Biden.
Edit: Maybe kiddy diddler isn’t the right word (damn close though) since there’s no proof or accusations (AFAIK) of him doing that with kids.
At least Trump can actually claim he made up a word and it's true(if you know what I mean? (-;)Quote: beachbumbabsLaughable amount of projection from both of you. Sad, though, really. Covfefe rules.
COVFEFE.COM IS FOR SALE OR LEASE!
Complete this form to get a price quote on Covfefe.Com:
Your Name
E-mail Address
Minimum Offer $100,000
*not sure if this is real or not
Sounds like Trump is making people money no matter what he says or does. He has the Midas touch for sure.
Quote: RSDon’t forget about kiddy diddler Biden.
Edit: Maybe kiddy diddler isn’t the right word (damn close though) since there’s no proof or accusations (AFAIK) of him doing that with kids.
That's just rude, guy. Biden did no such thing. The little boy he's all over in the nasty memes is his grandson, and it was the day of Beau's funeral (the kid's dad, his son). Makes me wonder if there's any further down in the dirt the hogs can wallow, trying to make something of that.
Watch this entire video. He gets really touchy with the young girls and this was just one event. If that was Trump or anyone else you guys would be sounding the creepy pedo alert.Quote: beachbumbabsQuote: RSDon’t forget about kiddy diddler Biden.
Edit: Maybe kiddy diddler isn’t the right word (damn close though) since there’s no proof or accusations (AFAIK) of him doing that with kids.
That's just rude, guy. Biden did no such thing. The little boy he's all over in the nasty memes is his grandson, and it was the day of Beau's funeral (the kid's dad, his son). Makes me wonder if there's any further down in the dirt the hogs can wallow, trying to make something of that.
