Dyvan13
Dyvan13
Joined: May 27, 2016
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October 3rd, 2016 at 11:39:47 PM permalink
Hello, I'm not a new user to WOV forums despite my small post count. I do a lot of lurking.
Let me start with myself, I'm a 22 year old employed college student living with my parents in henderson, NV, living here with my family since I was 14 years old. I make $10.50 at my job/hr, and this is my story:

I've dreamed of my 21st birthday. The day I could finally experience Vegas in its entirety. The night I turned 21 I showed up at a local dive casino at 12:10 AM at the craps table. I put my first passline bet down and felt nothing but bliss, despite winning or losing.....

Fast forward a few months later; Because I live in the Las Vegas area a casino is always arms length away. I'm recklessly gambling 5+ days a week, with no end in sight. Gambling is bliss. I forget about all of my problems and obligations as long as I have money either in my machine or on the passline.

I always prided myself on only making the very best bets the casino offered. I play exclusively 100%+ VP or Craps passline/don't with odds. I would chuckle to myself at the craps table as the "suckers" made proposition bet after proposition bet, when I was playing the minimum line bet with whatever odds I deemed fit.

But I soon realized that I was just a bad of a sucker as they was, simply grinding away with the same bets, allowing the house edge to reap my bankroll. But I didn't care. I was always chasing the next big streak at the craps table, or the next FOUR DEUCES win. If I lost $200, that means I was due to win at least $150 of it back since I was only making 1.36% HE Don't Pass bets. If I lost $300 playing FPDW, that would mean I was soon due to hit four deuces for $250 and then a big bunch of wild royals since I was playing a 100% payback machine.

So that brings me to today: I'm gambling 5+ days a week, going through huge bankroll swings. I decided at the end of last year that I really needed to be honest with myself and keep a logue of my gambling wins/losses. For the year of 2016, I'm only down about $1,200, which really isn't that bad considering its been 8 months of compulsive gambling. But the thing is, the addiction is growing. I'm needing to bet more and more. When I first turned 21, a $50 loss was upsetting. Now, a $50 loss is nothing. But, It's been very well documented how broke millennial college students are, and I fit right in with that demographic. I really should be only gambling a few times a month, if AT ALL. Period.

But it hasn't all gone to hell yet. I still have a few thousand in my bank accounts and am not in any debt, all still while maintaining a good college GPA and good standing with my employer. The only thing that I think saved me is that I am only playing 100% payback VP and Craps line bets w/odds. I don't touch anything with more than 2% HE. I still go through huge money swings, but the net effect is simply a small net loss on my minimum wage income.

I'm coming here to the WOV forums because I know I need help and I know I am among people who understand gambling: I don't feel comfortable talking with friends or family. None of my friends or family gamble and I guess I feel they would instantly demonize me as an addict loser and would just vilify me. I know someone who has lost everything (house, car, marriage, job) she once was proud of because of a gambling addiction, and I'll admit I'm not far off the course she was on. Today I picked up one of those "When the fun stops" pamphlets they have at the ATM machines in casinos. I want to attend some GA meetings as long as I can keep it on the down low from my friends and family until I feel I am ready to tell them.

Frankly, the reason I gamble is the classic textbook definition of addiction. I forget all about my problems and obligations as long as there is a bet on the passline, even though I know he's going to seven-out. And as soon as he seven-outs, I'm reaching into my pockets for more and more., chasing my losses blah blah blah until I'm broke as hell, driving home telling myself "I'm quitting gambling." But then I wake up the next day and the cycle repeats.

I know that sooner or later, as a part of the healing process, I will have to tell my friends and family. But where can I find anonymous help? I'm too embarrassed to ask anybody I know or casino personnel. I especially DO NOT want my employer finding out about this because I have never let gambling get in the way of doing my job properly; I understood that a well-paying job = a well funded gambling habit and as sick as it sounds, have gone over and above the call of duty at my job to voraciously push for a promotion so I can afford more gambling.

Thanks guys, I really enjoy this forum.
MikeV
MikeV
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October 4th, 2016 at 12:27:04 AM permalink
Hello Dyvan13,

First of all, give yourself a pat on the back for at least admitting that you have a problem and are willing to seek help.

It seems that even though you are playing the low house edge games, I see a bit of that gambler's fallacy in you as I was reading your post. Nothing is "due" to happen. While I never felt that I had an addiction, I was quite wild when I started gambling too - and I started at 18 (Indian casinos in California)! I'm currently 25, not much older than you. Today, my style of gambling is much more conservative. When I'm consistently losing, I don't have fun. That's enough to make me stop.

You mention that gambling makes you forget about your problems and obligations. If you want, we can chat through PM to discuss them or anything else that's on your mind if you are not comfortable sharing it publicly.

I wish you well!
Always look for opportunities.
RS
RS
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October 4th, 2016 at 12:45:26 AM permalink
Search for "gambler'S anonymous meetings Las Vegas" or something like that in google. Find one and go to it.

There also exist the "when the fun stops" pamphlets in every casino. Or google search for it. There's a phone number to call. Talk to the person. S/he can likely help you 100x more than anything anyone on this forum writes, I'd think.

Good luck in your endeavor going forward. Won't be easy, but you've already accomplished part of the toughest part (admitting it).
OnceDear
OnceDear
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October 4th, 2016 at 12:47:11 AM permalink
Quote: Dyvan13

But it hasn't all gone to hell yet. I still have a few thousand in my bank accounts and am not in any debt, all still while maintaining a good college GPA and good standing with my employer. The only thing that I think saved me is that I am only playing 100% payback VP and Craps line bets w/odds. I don't touch anything with more than 2% HE. I still go through huge money swings, but the net effect is simply a small net loss on my minimum wage income.


Hi Dyvan, Great post. Sorry to see that you are addicted, and pleased to hear that you are taking the first steps away from that. You have been fortunate so far, with variance not totally destroying you. Given half a chance it will.
I don't really know what the answer is to your question, because I too am addicted to gambling and a few other things. Having the bank balance to mask it is almost unfortunate, as that is an enabler. Steadily increasing the size of (y)our wagers is certainly a symptom that I recognise. That can perniciously hide the damage as it builds up at the same time as apparently helping you get back some bankroll. But good luck doesn't last: Each pull of the trigger in a game of russian roulette takes you closer to death, even if the next few times are empty chambers.
You have the job and the cash to enable you to play. Maybe you need to find a 'disabler' to counter that: Maybe locate and observe or talk to some losers. Maybe calculate your risk of ruin with those spreadsheets of Romes' with your 2% house edge. Maybe use a spreadsheet or run a simulator to show you the likely charts of the destruction of your money. There are many who gamble with house edges a fifth of the size of what you are playing and they would feel smug and scoff at your 'dumb ass' reckless play, just as you internally scoff at the reckless play of others..... But then those smart-ass players are in turn being laughed at and and eaten for breakfast by the casinos.

Maybe take a look at the expensive decor and fittings of the casino, one more time and figure out who paid for them.

Seriously good luck in finding support. Maybe, just maybe, this is not the best place.
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is NOT a winning strategy: Pressing into trends is NOT a winning strategy: Progressive betting systems are NOT a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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October 4th, 2016 at 8:06:00 AM permalink
At 3 am in a casino, who doesn't have a problem? Sometimes gambling problems are just symptoms of another problem, so not gambling won't really help.

Edited to add: I don't feel sorry for you and neither should you. For God's sake, your life is better off than millions, even billions out there. Bob Newhart had a skit once on madtv I think as a psychologist and his response to everything was, "stop it!" That's all it is.

If you stop gambling, your life might get worse if you've been entertained all year for $1200, because life is more expensive than that.
Last edited by: onenickelmiracle on Oct 4, 2016
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Konbu
Konbu
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October 4th, 2016 at 8:21:00 AM permalink
You need something else to occupy your time, like exercise. It will make you feel good for free. And you won't have the energy to go stand for hours at the table 5 days a week playing pass. Or spend more time with friends, go hiking, shoot some hoops, play board games, whatever. Occupy the free time you would otherwise spend at the casino.
I CD-ROM.
MrV
MrV
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October 4th, 2016 at 8:28:21 AM permalink
It's crunch time.

I see three possible doors for the OP:

1) Do nothing, and crash and burn;

2) Get professional help and stop gambling, forever; or

3) Use will power to develop the self-regulating ability to effectively limit/control the frequency and expense of gambling activity.

Without discipline, a gambler is lost.
"What, me worry?"
DeMango
DeMango
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October 4th, 2016 at 8:40:19 AM permalink
How about

4) Become a don't pass player

5) Learn to throw the dice.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
JoelDeze
JoelDeze
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October 4th, 2016 at 8:40:40 AM permalink
Addiction can be painful. Win streaks can come in bunches and sometimes I believe the casinos "hope" you get on a win streak. It gives you a sense of false hope so you come back again and again until they make more money off of you in the end.

You should understand what you have control over rather than what you don't have control over:

1. You control the size of your bank roll each session and what you are willing to risk.
2. You control what games you are playing.
3. You control your target stop playing point (by setting a target win amount and a target loss amount). When you hit either, stop playing.

Every session is a new session. If you are still thinking about the prior session and trying to make up losses, you have just dove into the losing pool and you will drown. How you approach things you do in your life is just as important as what actually happens when you get there.

I would personally suggest getting this until you have had several conversations with people close to you regarding your problem:



Every time you want to go gambling, play with your slot machine piggy bank. In the end, you will be a winner.
ďItís a dog eat dog world out there and Iím wearing milkbone underwear .Ē Ė Norm Peterson
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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October 4th, 2016 at 8:46:59 AM permalink
Quote: Konbu

You need something else to occupy your time, like exercise.

Actually it's not good to replace an addiction with something else, even with something as innocent like exercise. He needs to further address the problem with a professional if he really wants to stop.

I'm glad to see he's smart enough to realize this.... "Craps passline/don't with odds. I would chuckle to myself at the craps table as the "suckers" made proposition bet after proposition bet, when I was playing the minimum line bet with whatever odds I deemed fit. But I soon realized that I was just a bad of a sucker as they was, simply grinding away with the same bets, allowing the house edge to reap my bankroll "

There's no difference in a ploppy playing a 5% loser for 1 hour, or someone playing a 1% loser for 5 hours.

I wonder if he's willing to stop gambling forever? Or is he going to try to just "control" his addiction?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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October 4th, 2016 at 9:11:19 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

There's no difference in a ploppy playing a 5% loser for 1 hour, or someone playing a 1% loser for 5 hours.

Sure there is. The first ploppy has four more hours of his life he can spend doing other things. If those other things are more profitable than the -EV from gambling, the first ploppy wins.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
GWAE
GWAE
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October 4th, 2016 at 9:36:50 AM permalink
ummmm if you have a gambling problem the very last thing you should do is come to a gambling website. Block the site and seek professional help.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
Nathan
Nathan
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October 4th, 2016 at 10:27:22 AM permalink
I remember someone saying he/she was getting addicted and got a second job just so they wouldn't have time to go to a casino. If you're not wanting to take it that far, you can just limit the money you bring to casino and leave when you are no longer having fun.
Last edited by: Nathan on Oct 4, 2016
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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October 4th, 2016 at 10:45:49 AM permalink
Quote: Nathan

I remember someone saying he/she was getting and got a second job just so they wouldn't have time to go to a casino. If you're not wanting to take it that far, you can just limit the money you bring to casino and leave when you are no longer having fun.

And a crack addict can just limit the money they bring to crack house and leave when they are no longer having fun.

That's terrible kentry type advice.
Last edited by: AxelWolf on Oct 4, 2016
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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October 4th, 2016 at 10:49:45 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

And a crack addict can just limit the money he bring to crack house and leave when he's no longer having fun.

That's terrible kentry type advice.


This any better?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PBEXSiFzOfU
I am a robot.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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October 4th, 2016 at 10:51:08 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

Sure there is. The first ploppy has four more hours of his life he can spend doing other things. If those other things are more profitable than the -EV from gambling, the first ploppy wins.

That would depend on how one measures gambling entertainment value. If someone really enjoys playing for many house hours they might actually win. They also get more free drinks (-;
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
monet0412
monet0412
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October 4th, 2016 at 11:05:24 AM permalink
I wouldn't say you have a problem with gambling! I would say you have a problem with losing or playing games that you can't beat. My advice is to switch the way you gamble. Learn how to play games that bring a return on your investment. You might not get the "juice" from playing low risk/low return games but I have found that if you can start to show a return on your time and money year after year it can do wonders for your psyche. You could go the route as already suggested with support groups and try to quit cold turkey but I find that the real cure is to go from showing constant loss to constant win. It is not very easy to do and you are always in danger of going on tilt but in the end it is a better struggle compared to the roller coaster ride of quitting and backsliding over and over again. This is just my own personal opinion and is in no way professional advice. It is just another way of thinking.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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October 4th, 2016 at 11:14:09 AM permalink
You've seen the tee shirts... I drink, I fall down,,, I get up. No Problem.

IF your gambling is enjoyable, fine.

Its better than booze, heroin, smoking or alot of other things you could be doing.

IF it really is an obsession you have time to do those GA meetings.
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
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October 4th, 2016 at 11:52:00 AM permalink
This is, IMO, the most important recent insight about addiction of any kind, and it seems like OP has already reached similar conclusions.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-real-cause-of-addicti_b_6506936.html

Quote:

This gives us an insight that goes much deeper than the need to understand addicts. Professor Peter Cohen argues that human beings have a deep need to bond and form connections. Itís how we get our satisfaction. If we canít connect with each other, we will connect with anything we can find ó the whirr of a roulette wheel or the prick of a syringe. He says we should stop talking about Ďaddictioní altogether, and instead call it Ďbonding.í A heroin addict has bonded with heroin because she couldnít bond as fully with anything else.

So the opposite of addiction is not sobriety. It is human connection.



In short, what they've found is that people, and other animals, become addicts because they are unhappy with life, and particularly, don't have lots of good relationships. The reason a rat in a cage will take cocaine until it dies, is because he has been stuck alone in an empty cage. Put a rat in a cage with great food, toys and other rats, and he won't become a cocaine addict.

So, you know that gambling makes your other problems and obligations seem to disappear when you have action. You also mentioned that, rather than reacting to your situation with concern and compassion, you feel your family would look at you with contempt. Maybe that's true, or maybe you're not giving them enough credit, or you have some self esteem issue, where you assume others will look down on you because you look down on yourself.

But, in any of these cases, you are disconnected from your own family. You also said you are too embarrassed to tell anybody you know about this problem, which again suggests a level of isolation and/or alienation.



Quote: AxelWolf

Actually it's not good to replace an addiction with something else, even with something as innocent like exercise. He needs to further address the problem with a professional if he really wants to stop.



You don't want to just swap out one thing that numbs you for another. At least not as a long term solution, because, as you said, you want to address the root problems.

But, at the same time, when you give up an addiction you have a lot less drama in your life and a lot more time, which can make it seem boring and boredom can cause relapse. Also, really addressing those root problems might take years.

So, it can be good to have other things to invest in. Physical fitness is good. It can also help self esteem, which might be part of the root problems.

I'm a proponent of mental fitness via meditation and mindfulness, which can mean a number of different things. I got turned on to it by Tommy Angelo, a top mental coach for poker. And he discovered it because he became an alcoholic and that's how he defeated that addiction.


Quote:

I'm glad to see he's smart enough to realize this.... "Craps passline/don't with odds. I would chuckle to myself at the craps table as the "suckers" made proposition bet after proposition bet, when I was playing the minimum line bet with whatever odds I deemed fit. But I soon realized that I was just a bad of a sucker as they was, simply grinding away with the same bets, allowing the house edge to reap my bankroll "



Me too. I'm optimistic for the OP, because he gets stuff like this. I've been around hundreds, if not thousands of gambling addicts. Even when they know they have a problem, their minds are usually full of so much nonsense about things like the basic nature of gambling, that I think it's a barrier to them getting better. OP seems to understand it all pretty well. Just needs to make a few more steps.

You're also still young and in school, OP, which is great. You have a lot to gain by nipping this in the bud. You can still have a great life. Compared to someone who is 50 and has already destroyed his life.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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October 4th, 2016 at 12:36:26 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

T


In short, what they've found is that people, and other animals, become addicts because they are unhappy with life, and particularly, don't have lots of good relationships. .

It's not that simple and everyone is different. There's many different reasons people get addicted. There's people who lived happy normal lives people who never took drugs or had depression or emotional problems. Suddenly they get into a car accident and are prescribed drugs and become addicted. Happy teens just having fun drinking consistently can become addicted. They may not have even wanted to drink or do drugs for any reason other than pure pressure.
Apparently for some people, just experimenting with drugs they can quickly become addicted.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
discflicker
discflicker
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October 4th, 2016 at 12:45:34 PM permalink
Very nice post. I can suggest a few things, first of, get yourself a copy of WinCraps and program your basic strategies into it. Then put it into "hyper" mode and sit back and watch how much money you invariably WILL lose. "Vegas was NOT built upon winners."

Next, I STRONGLY suggest you find a sport/hobby or two, like Disc Golf, and play it every time you get the urge to waste a month's pay for a few minutes of "bliss". That ain't bliss, that is self destruction. Fishing is another sport that can satisfy your gambling urges because its very much like playing a slot machine... when you hit a big fish, its even better than hitting a jackpot because you used your skill to catch it, not just "dumb luck". Imagine the rush you'd get if you bowled a 300 game... now THAT is a rush.

I met a woman in a Vegas casino a while back wearing thick sunglasses. She said she had macular degeneration, and would be blind within a year or so, and so she wanted to "see the world". I told her that every casino in the world looks the same from the inside, and she ain't seeing anything; I suggested touring the Grand Canyon instead.

Vegas glamorizes the gaming industry for only ONE reason... duh. Don't fall for it, please, just take it for what it is... a big rip-off. The pharmaceutical industry does the same thing with mental health "cures"... they advertise to make you think there's something wrong, so they can get you hooked on their drugs. Back in 1849 they advertised claims there was gold in the Sierra mountains for the taking... out of 10,000 prospectors how many do you think actually made money digging for gold?

The world is full of hustlers, con men and thieves, and "let the BUYER beware"... please, don't fall for huge scams like gambling, pharmaceuticals, alcohol, or radical religion. Play some disc golf and when you hit an ace (hole in one), you'll feel way better than you ever did in a casino!!

Quote: GWAE

ummmm if you have a gambling problem the very last thing you should do is come to a gambling website. Block the site and seek professional help.



This site does not encourage reckless gambling; the "betting systems" thread is full of chumps that claim they have winning systems, and we try to teach them that there is no such a thing, and warn them to please keep it under control.

Marty, 04-Oct-2016
The difference between zero and the smallest possible number? It doesn't matter; once you cross that edge, it might as well be the difference between zero and 1. The difference between infinity and reality? They are mutually exclusive.
jjjoooggg
jjjoooggg
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October 4th, 2016 at 2:22:31 PM permalink
Once, I was sitting in a hotel room. I saw a gambling addiction advertisement with a sad gambler crouched on his bed, and thought maybe that is me.

A dealer said that they are not allowed to talk about the fact that everyday someone commits suicide in Vega. It is also a destination that suicide people decide to be their last place on earth. They have gambling addiction help groups.
Born in Texas and lived in Texas my whole life.
BTLWI
BTLWI
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October 4th, 2016 at 2:49:55 PM permalink
Move to a city with no casino.
DeMango
DeMango
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October 4th, 2016 at 2:54:49 PM permalink
Quote: BTLWI

Move to a city with no casino.



Good one. Hawaii comes to mind!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
jjjoooggg
jjjoooggg
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October 4th, 2016 at 3:12:58 PM permalink
Hawaii has a casino. LOL.
Born in Texas and lived in Texas my whole life.
Tortoise
Tortoise
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October 4th, 2016 at 3:16:18 PM permalink
You're brave to ask for help. I think you'll find that many people want to help if you just ask.

There's basically 2 common strategies for addiction.

The functional addict or the methadone approach:
In this strategy you continue to gamble but do so less frequently and only under strict rules. For example you might make a rule that you can only gamble on Saturdays and only play Full Pay Deuces, nothing else no exceptions. If youíre able to adhere to these strict rules youíll have your addiction under control and wonít have any negative consequences and can do so for the rest of your life. 2 Keys are that you have to be the one to make and enforce these rules, you canít rely on others to do so and remember the HALT Acronym. Donít gamble if youíre Hungry, Angry, Lonely, or Tired, this will help a lot.

Abstinence:
In this strategy you go to Gamblers Anonymous, get a sponsor, and follow the program with the goal of complete abstinence from gambling. You might even consider the nuclear option of self-banning yourself from the casinos. I donít have much knowledge about these programs but thereís lots and lots of people out there who want to help and Gamblers Anonymous is free.

I donít want to scare you but one thing that makes addiction complicated is that addiction is sometimes symptom of other psychological problems instead of the disease. From talking with gambling addicts and reading biographies itís very common for addicts to have a history of trauma like having a very bad childhood or PTSD. Stu Ungar is a good example of this if you read his biography One of Kind youíll read about his abusive father and neglectful mother. Itís impossible to know your situation without talking personally, but if you are in this situation the good news is that if you treat the underlying psychological illness the addiction might just go away on its own.

On the brighter side you might just grow out of your addiction. For a guy 22 is just about the worst time of your life psychologically and it only gets better. If you achieve success, whatever that means for you, graduating college, getting a better job, moving away from home,etc. Things might improve and you might no longer feel the need to gamble.

Whatever you choose to do please get help, most people actually want to help if you ask them.
GWAE
GWAE
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October 4th, 2016 at 3:41:01 PM permalink
Quote: discflicker

Very nice post. I can suggest a few things, first of, get yourself a copy of WinCraps and program your basic strategies into it. Then put it into "hyper" mode and sit back and watch how much money you invariably WILL lose. "Vegas was NOT built upon winners."

Next, I STRONGLY suggest you find a sport/hobby or two, like Disc Golf, and play it every time you get the urge to waste a month's pay for a few minutes of "bliss". That ain't bliss, that is self destruction. Fishing is another sport that can satisfy your gambling urges because its very much like playing a slot machine... when you hit a big fish, its even better than hitting a jackpot because you used your skill to catch it, not just "dumb luck". Imagine the rush you'd get if you bowled a 300 game... now THAT is a rush.

I met a woman in a Vegas casino a while back wearing thick sunglasses. She said she had macular degeneration, and would be blind within a year or so, and so she wanted to "see the world". I told her that every casino in the world looks the same from the inside, and she ain't seeing anything; I suggested touring the Grand Canyon instead.

Vegas glamorizes the gaming industry for only ONE reason... duh. Don't fall for it, please, just take it for what it is... a big rip-off. The pharmaceutical industry does the same thing with mental health "cures"... they advertise to make you think there's something wrong, so they can get you hooked on their drugs. Back in 1849 they advertised claims there was gold in the Sierra mountains for the taking... out of 10,000 prospectors how many do you think actually made money digging for gold?

The world is full of hustlers, con men and thieves, and "let the BUYER beware"... please, don't fall for huge scams like gambling, pharmaceuticals, alcohol, or radical religion. Play some disc golf and when you hit an ace (hole in one), you'll feel way better than you ever did in a casino!!



This site does not encourage reckless gambling; the "betting systems" thread is full of chumps that claim they have winning systems, and we try to teach them that there is no such a thing, and warn them to please keep it under control.

Marty, 04-Oct-2016



Mary you are right that this site does not promote anything reckless, however the worst thing that can happen for an addict is to see advantage plays. Take vulturing for example. Said addict sees some of the nice wins done from vulturing. He goes to the casino for the sole purpose of doing that. He finds no plays. N addict is now probably going to stick a 20 or 50 in the machine and play just because. A non addict like myself will say aww damn no play, walk to the pepsi machine, fill up his pepsi bottle and walk back to the car. If he didn't read about that on here then he probably would have had time to play disc golf.

Speaking of, I really messed up my shoulder this year and haven't been able to play a single round. It makes me sad.
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discflicker
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October 4th, 2016 at 4:25:25 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE


Mary you are right that this site does not promote anything reckless, however the worst thing that can happen for an addict is to see advantage plays. Take vulturing for example. Said addict sees some of the nice wins done from vulturing. He goes to the casino for the sole purpose of doing that. He finds no plays. An addict is now probably going to stick a 20 or 50 in the machine and play just because. A non addict like myself will say aww damn no play, walk to the pepsi machine, fill up his pepsi bottle and walk back to the car. If he didn't read about that on here then he probably would have had time to play disc golf.

Speaking of, I really messed up my shoulder this year and haven't been able to play a single round. It makes me sad.



Don't call me Mary.

The "Betting Systems" thread on this forum serves the purpose of discouraging any strategy. If he follows my suggestions to simulate his strategy then watch it invariably lose in WinCraps, for example, he should see the light.

I'm sorry to hear about your shoulder, you can try using your off arm, or take up fishing, but it sounds like you have managed your gaming risks. Maybe the OP doesn't know how to manage his money, like limiting his daily losses, etc. I used to just leave my money and credit cards in the car and walk in with, say $50; more than enough to have fun in a Henderson casino for a good 20 minutes or so.

I still, to this day, tightly control my gaming by starting with a base amount and going on a set of SHORT RUNS. If I lost the money, I would walk back out to the car and get another $50. But if I turned it into $125, I would walk out to the car and leave the $75 profit there, and walk back in with $50. OK, now, I quit when I lose three times in a day. Most of the days this never happens, and if it does, I call it a bad day and I QUIT!

Following this money management strategy, your daily max loss is $150, and on the vast majority of days (7 out of 8 days), you lose less than that and you can play for quite a long while. And plus, you get a lot of exercise walking out to the car + back.

These days, I'm strictly poker, where I can let my skill dictate the game, rather than "dumb luck". And in poker, you can buy in with the $50 one-time and just not re-buy until you take a little walk outside. I live in Detroit, they have 3 casinos all within a mile of each other, so I bop from one to the next whenever I lose my buy-in or have > $125 in my stack. They call me "hit + run".

There are plenty of posts here on WOV, and plenty of books and videos that discuss money management.

The OP could also make casual bets in bowling and disc golf, and again, his skill dictates the winner, and so he can learn how to win with talent vs. casino randomization /w built-in house advantages.

Let's say he takes up the game of snooker... if he ever gets good enough to run a 147, he will be in heaven and he will thank his lucky starts to have given up casino gambling. Eh?
The difference between zero and the smallest possible number? It doesn't matter; once you cross that edge, it might as well be the difference between zero and 1. The difference between infinity and reality? They are mutually exclusive.
GWAE
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October 4th, 2016 at 4:27:10 PM permalink
Lmao I didn't read your whole post yet but my auto correct changed marty to mary. Lol it just did it again.

Now your talking bowling. We should hang out. When I hurt my arm I did switch to left handed for the season. I currently have a 172 average so not so bad.
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discflicker
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October 4th, 2016 at 4:46:51 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Lmao I didn't read your whole post yet but my auto correct changed marty to mary. Lol it just did it again.



Better than "millie".
Quote: GWAE


Now your talking bowling. We should hang out. When I hurt my arm I did switch to left handed for the season. I currently have a 172 average so not so bad.



Hey I wonder if the OP DRINKS??? Does he go into the casino and take advantage of "free drinks"? That right there would make your lose your paycheck...

https://youtu.be/LgEApN9ap0A?t=182
The difference between zero and the smallest possible number? It doesn't matter; once you cross that edge, it might as well be the difference between zero and 1. The difference between infinity and reality? They are mutually exclusive.
Nathan
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October 4th, 2016 at 5:54:01 PM permalink
You could also bring a buddy with you that will hold money for you and give you playing money sporadically and tell you when it's time to go home if you are losing money. A simple, "Hey, you just lost $200. It's time to stop playing while you still have $800 left!" And not give you anymore of the $800 that you still have left.
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
GWAE
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October 4th, 2016 at 6:11:49 PM permalink
Quote: Nathan

You could also bring a buddy with you that will hold money for you and give you playing money sporadically and tell you when it's time to go home if you are losing money. A simple, "Hey, you just lost $200. It's time to stop playing while you still have $800 left!" And not give you anymore of the $800 that you still have left.



Then why even bring that much
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Nathan
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October 4th, 2016 at 6:27:25 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Then why even bring that much



It was just used as an arbituary amount for an example. :)
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
beachbumbabs
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October 4th, 2016 at 6:28:01 PM permalink
I'm guessing you didn't know you'd become addicted when you started this, if I'm understanding your time frame, less than a year ago.

So now you know this, it's time to step back from it, whether with the help of GA or on your own. Probably need to get completely away from it, but maybe you can set a future goal to play x amount you can afford to lose, on y future date. Then you have something to look forward to, but you've budgeted to only lose (at worst) what you can afford to lose.

But I don't think you've played long enough to be hard core addicted . I could be wrong, and you probably should consult an expert to find your best course.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Wizardofnothing
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October 4th, 2016 at 6:36:30 PM permalink
Addiction can and does happen quick- youcould smoke crack 2-3 times and be hard core addicted
Nathan's example should not be used ever- that's an awful thought to try
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Nathan
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October 4th, 2016 at 6:38:51 PM permalink
What is wrong with having a friend watch your money for you and make you stop when you have lost too much money?
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
Wizardofnothing
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October 4th, 2016 at 6:49:14 PM permalink
Well let's start with the obvious- if you don't want your friend to give the money why would you bring it in the first place
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Wizardofnothing
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October 4th, 2016 at 6:49:39 PM permalink
Sounds wayyyyy to much like Kentry buying a gift card to stop from spending the money
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Nathan
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October 4th, 2016 at 6:57:49 PM permalink
No, it's more like a designated driver at a party whose job it is to be the mature, sober, responsible voice of reason. The friend at the casino is there to give you a little spending money and cut you off when you lose too much.
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
Wizardofnothing
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October 4th, 2016 at 7:03:00 PM permalink
Not even close- ask Kentry how well it worked for him
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Nathan
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October 4th, 2016 at 7:05:31 PM permalink
Would you please stop comparing me to Kentry? Like I said before, I am a newish member and am NOT Kentry! I promise!
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
Wizardofnothing
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October 4th, 2016 at 7:06:23 PM permalink
I didn't compare I said check with him or look at old threads and see how well that idea worked for him
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Nathan
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October 4th, 2016 at 7:07:07 PM permalink
The implication was there.
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
Wizardofnothing
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October 4th, 2016 at 7:08:57 PM permalink
Only in your head
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Nathan
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October 4th, 2016 at 7:13:41 PM permalink
Okay, it's time to turn this thread back to the OP's original dilemma. OP, why not take a small break from gambling for a about a month and then sporadically gamble, like once every week with a very limited bankroll like say, $20, win or lose? And when the $20 is gone, you go home?
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
djatc
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October 4th, 2016 at 7:54:34 PM permalink
Double your bet so you win faster in half the time
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
Rigondeaux
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October 4th, 2016 at 8:30:40 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

It's not that simple and everyone is different. There's many different reasons people get addicted. There's people who lived happy normal lives people who never took drugs or had depression or emotional problems. Suddenly they get into a car accident and are prescribed drugs and become addicted. Happy teens just having fun drinking consistently can become addicted. They may not have even wanted to drink or do drugs for any reason other than pure pressure.
Apparently for some people, just experimenting with drugs they can quickly become addicted.



I agree that it's multifaceted. But, for one thing, the person who has it all and becomes a junkie is a pretty rare story, which is why it stands out. Maybe a lot of those people are living to meet the expectations of others, or have a secret nobody else knows. Look at Bruce Jenner. Had absolutely everything you could want in life. Looks, brains, money, fame, greatest athlete in the world. But...

What I think is true though, is that we all have different things that could trigger our addictions, if we are disposed to them. I like stimulants, I like gambling to a certain degree, but I could never become addicted to those things. Downers are another story, which is why I never tried H.

In any case, the OP certainly seems to have a high level of alienation and isolation in his life. Sounds like a kid most would be proud of. In college, and working and SAVING money. Yet, he has one weakness and he thinks (rightly or wrongly) that his family will react by "demonizing" him. That fits in exactly with this stuff.

Anyway, if you like videos more than articles, here is a guy making the same points at a Ted Talk.



Here's another guy, with a different outlook. Somewhat of a goofy character. I'm not sure to what extent I agree, but I think he makes a good case. Basically, the root of all addiction is an inability to face emptiness. We have small addictions, like, maybe arguing about politics online. Bigger ones, like maybe porn or shopping. And then the major ones that can ruin your life, like gambling or drugs. All of them are about creating noise to cover up the emptiness, which is a kind of emotional immaturity.

Kind of extreme, but I think fundamentally sound. If you can be at peace and detached, you won't need stimulation to make you happy. But, that is a really big if. I don't think it's necessarily wise to attempt leaping from serious addict, into becoming a monk. However, since doing this sort of stuff, at a much lower level, I've found it far easier to curb little "addictions,: like having dessert too often.



What I think ties all of these together is that hardcore addiction occurs when you find something that makes you feel REALLY good, AND you don't feel that great most of the time. If you go from a 2/10 to a 9/10, you want that feeling all the time. You are unhappy whenever you don't have it for long. If you go from a 8/10 to a 10/10 or a 5/10 to a 7/10 then it's just a good time.

So, in order to get permanently better, you need to raise that 2/10.
AxelWolf
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October 4th, 2016 at 9:22:38 PM permalink
Quote: JoelDeze



3. You control your target stop playing point (by setting a target win amount and a target loss amount). When you hit either, stop playing.

Every session is a new session.

Every time you want to go gambling, play with your slot machine piggy bank In the end, you will be a winner.

JD:"Every session is a new session." <<<And that's what gets people in trouble in the first place. This is all betting system stop win/stop loss gambler's fallacy type talk. It's all just one big long session. The quicker people understand that the better off hey will be. New days, new sessions or whatever is just a state of mind and a way to trick yourself.

HELLO!! Did everyone miss this part? Dyvan13: "I put my first passline bet down and felt nothing but bliss, despite winning or losing....." Dyvan13: Gambling is bliss. <<< That's a big problem.

I forget all about my problems and obligations as long as there is a bet on the passline, even though I know he's going to seven-out. And as soon as he seven-outs, I'm reaching into my pockets for more and more., chasing my losses blah blah blah until I'm broke as hell, driving home telling myself "I'm quitting gambling." But then I wake up the next day and the cycle repeats. <<< That's a huge problem.

When did the OP write this post? I mean, did he write it just after playing one night until he was broke driving home telling myself "I'm quitting gambling". All after a night of regret? Yet the next day the cycle just continues?

JD: "Every time you want to go gambling, play with your slot machine piggy bank In the end, you will be a winner." *Rolls eyes* Do you really think something like that is going to help someone who's got a serious gambling problem?

It doesn't sound like he's stolen money, alienated his family, lost any jobs

He is really young so there's plenty of time for him to get help and STOP GAMBLING PERIOD. Or there's plenty of for him to completely destroy his life.

Every response should be the following. STOP GAMBLING AND GET HELP!!!
Last edited by: AxelWolf on Oct 5, 2016
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
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October 4th, 2016 at 9:36:54 PM permalink
Quote: Nathan

Okay, it's time to turn this thread back to the OP's original dilemma. OP, why not take a small break from gambling for a about a month and then sporadically gamble, like once every week with a very limited bankroll like say, $20, win or lose? And when the $20 is gone, you go home?

NO!!!

Quit trying to convince yourself.


Regarding this subject: PLEASE GO AWAY !!
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Rigondeaux
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October 4th, 2016 at 9:45:38 PM permalink
I agree. All of this stuff about taking a friend with you to keep you under control... why TF would you do that?!!

"I'm a crack addict."

"Oh, no problem. Just go tot he crack house with a friend and have him restrain you from smoking more after the first few hits."

No. You need to stop smoking crack.

Even when it's "under control," -ev gambling is a bad habit. You give up your money, time and mental energy and get nothing in return. Even if there is some chance he could pull it off, it's still a net loss. Why shoot for a net loss instead of a win?

+ev gambling isn't a good solution either. Very few succeed at it WITHOUT an addiction. With an addiction, it's a huge long shot. Dude is in college, and has plenty of better paths to making money. Quit gambling and pick up a professional certification with that time and energy, like maybe a teaching credential. A few extra (easy) classes, and you'll always have a plan B.

If someone is an alcoholic, they shouldn't try to become a professional wine taster or start a microbrewery. If you have a shopping addiction, you shouldn't aspire to become an e-bay pro.

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