Terror attack at Orlando gay club

Quote: rxwine

I can't imagine anyone on the other side thinking they are winning. A successful attack once in awhile is not winning.

Third-party films/tapes and other reports as well as their own propaganda (by necessity) shows after three years a high degree of control and confidence. They and their sympathizers may not have resources to conduct daily terror attacks in the U.S. But then again, they demonstrate the inclination and ability to do what they where they want when they want. Or at least attempt to. And that is downright unsettling to those of us who have witnessed such attacks and their results first hand.

After his several years in a gay lifestyle, ISIS would not have wanted him.

I don't know if it was radicalism or age or what, but he became unhappy and certainly MAY have embraced radicalism but let's face it: ISIS would not have welcomed him in Syria or the like.

He was confused and shot up the place while the cops did their usual 'establish a perimeter and wait'.

Pity no one in the club was packing any heat.

My primary care provider was just taken over by a new medical group and the first thing that disappeared was the decal on the glass that read 'We welcome weapon carriers including CCPs"

Nothing stops a gunman in his tracks like a round to the head.

Quote: TigerWu

The vast majority of radical Muslim terror attacks do not occur in America or have anything to do with America...

That may be true, but apparently one must be totally literal and concise when posting as comments are taken any way people see fit. I didn't say all the extremists total acts, just the ones against America or Americans abroad and the terroists make it a point to identify their intended victims. I have not seen christian terrorist attacks aimed at the American citizen like modern islamic extremists.

But islamic extremists get the most news coverage and that's what they want.

There's a lot of other questions that remain to be answered, like how did this guy get past the investigations?
I believe it's true that our government keeps dangerous nutjobs active if they fit the governments other covert plans against some other entity. And the cia, fbi and other 'intelligence' (sometimes this is an extreme oxymoron, given the stupendously bad decisions in the past and recent present giving known criminals assistance to help thwart other so called criminal enemies of the US, that turned against us and bit our ass)...
How can someone with higher than average security levels get this far? How looney did he have to be to be placed in custody?

Did anyone really drop the ball in the investigations. I doubt any regular citizen even knows what the parameters intelligence looks at to identify a serious person of interest.

This mess has more questions than answers which may never be revealed.

Quote: ams288

Apparently the terrorist was a regular at that nightclub for more than three years.

And he may have even had profiles on some gay dating apps.

Wouldn't surprise me at all... his sexuality - or his confusion over his sexuality - coming into direct conflict with his stupid medieval religious beliefs.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the most virulent homophobes are often the guys who are deeply closeted and being torn apart from the inside over their sexuality. Similar to all the politicians who peddle bigotry and homophobic laws and then get caught with their pants down in the airport restroom, or on gay apps, or in gay bars, etc.

Have original thoughts much? I believe I stated that first.

June 13th, 2016 at 3:47:54 PM
permalink

Quote: terapined

The guy was a US citizen born in the USA
He was crazy
Adam Lanza was crazy
After Newtown, conservatives shrugged their shoulders
How is this different from Newtown or the Colorado theater shootings
We live in a country where crazy people can get their hands on weapons of mass killing
Its going to happen again.



Don't be too surprised this killer comes up as being gay as well. It doesn't matter about any present family or girlfriends.

Quote: Gandler

I agree.

But, its not the 1600s anymore.

In 2016 Islam is the biggest threat to Secular Western Values.

I agree, but how ironic that their tenants are pre 1600's and they haven't advance hardly at all.

Quote: SanchoPanza

Third-party films/tapes and other reports as well as their own propaganda (by necessity) shows after three years a high degree of control and confidence. They and their sympathizers may not have resources to conduct daily terror attacks in the U.S. But then again, they demonstrate the inclination and ability to do what they where they want when they want. Or at least attempt to. And that is downright unsettling to those of us who have witnessed such attacks and their results first hand.

Very good point. But I've always felt the higher up minds of this isis and other fractions are very heavily trained in American tech and industry, or ARE long time American citizens with schooling. It's probably the same with whatever other country of the day they are attacking. Get the biggest bang for your buck with your small group of nuts with the Micheal Bay quality of beheading videos that were being done a short while ago, and surgical attacks at well known and media covered events, they know how to play the media game as well. Although, I think isis has been taking a beating lately in it's home towns.

Quote: sammydv

There's a lot of other questions that remain to be answered, like how did this guy get past the investigations?

If you put any stock in the F.B.I. statements, there was not enough to arrest him. Not one of the talking heads who reported this had the brains to ask why was he allowed to be a security guard, of all positions, and to have extra permissions for weaponry.

Quote:

How can someone with higher than average security levels get this far? How looney did he have to be to be placed in custody?

Despite the friends, neighbors and co-workers who reported his patently aberrant statements and actions to their bosses and the authorities, the security company as well as the government agencies are guiltily complicit in ignoring the clear signals. Heads should roll, but they won't because of all the crony reasons we know too well.

Quote:

Did anyone really drop the ball in the investigations.

That is crystal clear. Even the F.B.I. director conceded as much.

Quote: FleaStiff

Pity no one in the club was packing any heat.

Errr... There was an armed security guard at the club.

Hence why conservative's false "good guy with a gun" myth hasn't really shown up in their talking points for this shooting.

Quote: RonC

I don't understand why people always want to find the "they did it, too" in times like these.

Right freaking now, Radical Islamic Terrorists are at war with our way of life. They are attacking people across the world that don't agree with them and killing them. It is an organized movement, a portion of which our President declared to be the "JV" as if it was some damned football game. This ain't Friday night in Texas, where every only thinks it is a war...this is real life and those 100+ people shot in Orlando are real people attacked by someone who believes ALL of us must die for not believing as he does. All the other crap about what Christians or Agnostics or Atheists or anyone else did is not relevant to this battle that must be fought and won.

I'm not excusing other bad actors, but spending all this energy trying to find other wrongs is counterproductive to what we must fight now.

It is because people are raised in a culture of masochism where everything that happens to us os either our fault or we have done something worse so it is forgivable.

Everytime there is an Islamic attack, people feel the need to excuse Islam as a religion.

If this had been a redneck militia member, who was inspired after attending a church that calls for the death of homosexuals, there would be endless outrage. But, everyone is aftaid of pointing out the horrors of Islam because they don't want the Muslims to attack them.

Quote: sammydv

I agree, but how ironic that their tenants are pre 1600's and they haven't advance hardly at all.

They've actually regressed. At one point in human history, the Middle East was the height of intellectualism, art, science.... almost everything.

Quote: ams288

Errr... There was an armed security guard at the club.

Hence why conservative's false "good guy with a gun" myth hasn't really shown up in their talking points for this shooting.

Yeah, them darned Conservatives and the whole Constitution thing getting in the way...

Like you said, the whole "good guys not allowed to have any guns" will work well for us.

Doggone it, it was "good guys with guns" who went in after this bastard. The fact that the man who slaughtered these people frequented the club makes it more likely he figured out who had the gun and took them out first; we may or may not know that at some point *hell, it could already be out since I have not read every account from the scene). I'd still take my chances with a "good guy with a gun" than without one. I guess you'd rather have popsicle sticks to fight off the bastards.

The tired charade of criminals not being able to get guns is a farce--they can get them as easily as anyone who can get them legally with the right contacts.

I am "for" keeping mentally unstable people from having guns.

I am "for" attacking Radical Islamic Terrorists viciously and decisively.

I am "for" figuring out why this particular pig was allowed to buy a gun after being investigated twice for threatening people...what happened, why did it happen, what can be done to keep it from happening again?

I am "for" stable individuals being able to carry weapons, open and concealed. of properly trained, licensed, and subject to review if investigated...and I am "for" the Second Amendment.

Quote: RonC

Yeah, them darned Conservatives and the whole Constitution thing getting in the way...

Like you said, the whole "good guys not allowed to have any guns" will work well for us.

Doggone it, it was "good guys with guns" who went in after this bastard. The fact that the man who slaughtered these people frequented the club makes it more likely he figured out who had the gun and took them out first; we may or may not know that at some point *hell, it could already be out since I have not read every account from the scene). I'd still take my chances with a "good guy with a gun" than without one. I guess you'd rather have popsicle sticks to fight off the bastards.

What the heck are you even talking about?

Where did I ever say

Quote:

Like you said, the whole "good guys not allowed to have any guns" will work well for us.

???

My point here is this: there was a good guy with a gun at the club. He engaged the terrorist. He was unable to stop the terrorist.

It took a bunch of good cops and a SWAT team with many guns to stop the one bad guy with two guns.

So don't blame the victims for not having guns. It's always disgusting.

Quote: ams288

What the heck are you even talking about?

Where did I ever say



???

My point here is this: there was a good guy with a gun at the club. He engaged the terrorist. He was unable to stop the terrorist.

It took a bunch of good cops and a SWAT team with many guns to stop the one bad guy with two guns.

So don't blame the victims for not having guns. It's always disgusting.

I've never heard anyone "blame" the victims for not having guns. Can you provide some proof of that?

Simply saying the results might have been different had people had guns in certain situations is not blaming the victims for anything.

You are really trying hard to make this a Conservative/Liberal...Gay/Straight...Gun/Anti-Gun deal....

A freaking nut case Radical Islamic Terrorist killed 50 people (I have seen 49 as the number also) and maimed more than 50 more. It is about them--Radical Islamic Terrorists--and their desire to KILL everyone who does not follow their way of thinking in the world. People wanting to be politically correct making it about gun control, Christians, agnostics, atheists, gays, straights, etc. are just making the same tired excuses for not taking the full measure of action against these freaks.

Quote: RonC

I've never heard anyone "blame" the victims for not having guns. Can you provide some proof of that?

NRA's Ted Nugent Calls Unarmed Victims Of Gun Violence "Losers"

Quote: ams288

NRA's Ted Nugent Calls Unarmed Victims Of Gun Violence "Losers"

Thank you. I disagree with him. (This was not in response to this event, in case anyone chooses to not look at the link...it was a more general statement regarding his view on being armed or unarmed. I still disagree with him; I just want to add context to this discussion)

I do defend his right to free speech just as much as that of the people who would take away all guns.

I don't think they are losers or in any way to blame for their fate; I do think they give away an opportunity to defend themselves when they do not carry.

I am also assuming the laws in Florida are like those in Texas (I could be way wrong on that) that restrict carrying in places like bars, hospitals, and some other areas. That could well mean (with that assumption) that none of the patrons could have been armed legally.

As of today, I am no longer going to hang out in gay bars.
I'm done. 2F

Disappointing to see some of the comments from my conservative friends. Seems some are bound and determined to coin a new term. "CINO". Christian in name only. Hard to believe the Jesus would condone any of many of the things being said here.

Equally disappointing are those from my atheist friends. I happen to agree with many of the things said about religion. I find most if not all of the philanthropy purported to spring from this tradition could just as easily be done by any number of social groups, and that "religion" only serves to bastardize said philanthropy. If I ever get the ol' Bruce Almighty treatment, my second act (after my first act of 40 days and nights of righteous smiting) would be to destroy religion and then myself.

However, an attack on religion, or rather, the right to engage in religion, is an attack on our most precious right. The 1st amendment is the most important piece of legislature in our country. Freedom of speech, the press, of religion, to congregate, assemble, it all boils down to one thing. Freedom of information. We are allowed to create, adjust, and communicate knowledge. There is no single thing worth more than that. Right behind that is the piece that makes it all possible, the right to bear arms. The 1st allows anything, the 2nd ensures it is allowed. And no act engaged in by those who hate, defile, or otherwise abuse it should be cause for you to attack it yourself.

There was a time when we were sucker punched. Thousands of innocent Americans died, and on our own land. This act lead to the loss of millions of our brothers and sisters. Additional millions of our enemy's brothers and sisters. Even more millions of innocent civilians. But, at least in my opinion, there was only one part of the whole lot that has never and will never sit right with me. It wasn't the leveling of foreign countries, nor even the dropping of the bomb. It was the imprisonment and internment of our own people. Hundreds of thousands of our own people locked up and held hostage by our own gov, for no other reason than the name they held.

What I see when I look around at my brothers and sisters, sorry to say, is a whole lot of pussies. A handful of ass backwards, stone chucking neanderthals got your panties all in a knot. A rag tag bunch of bastards have Lady Liberty cowering in a corner. G.M.A.F.B. You would throw away the very essence of America just to,... what, exactly? Keep Akbar from flying over here? Keep a specific rifle off the shelves? So cowardly are you to jump at the chance to commit the same mistakes of our past.

You have made OBL victorious. The most hated man in America, the biggest coward I could ever conceive of, and you play right into his hands like a puppet on a string. He played you for a fool, and he plays you still. He didn't even have to fight to destroy us. He just gave us a nudge, and we are all too happy to destroy ourselves for him. For shame.

I suggest spending time with your fathers and grandfathers. Perhaps some nights spent at the local VFW. We've forgotten how to be men, and it is becoming our undoing. We lost 500,000 in WWII, and I don't recall a single comment about the loss of our resolve. We've lost ~<10,000 from ISIS and too many are ready to trash everything we are to "just make it stop".

Pride. Strength. Resolve. Justice. Isn't that the America you were taught? Well I've got news for you, "America" isn't a "thing". America is you and I. America is Pride, Strength, Resolve and Justice because WE, at one point, were Pride, Strength, Resolve, and Justice. Not one single thing any outsider does can change that. How you act in the face of challenge, that's what is going to determine our country's future. And right now, we're f#$%ing it all up.

Stop it.

I read that to say;
The 1st amendment promised you the possibility of everything you could imagine.
The 2nd amendment guaranteed it.

Face, well said. But I expect it fell on deaf ears. 30 minutes ago Obama calls for Assault Weapons Ban. not Radical Islamic Label.

Quote: onalinehorse

Face, well said. But I expect it fell on deaf ears. 30 minutes ago Obama calls for Assault Weapons Ban. not Radical Islamic Label.

It will be good for the arms dealers, there will be another 'run' on assault weapons. Hey, hey, (to quote Soxfan), those arms dealers have employees and they pay taxes. As far as I can tell, Barry's occasional call for assault weapons bans have been one his best 'Economic Stimulus Packages' .

Just yesterday my wife suggested I buy a gun, concealed carry here in Colorado.

My dad's retirement job was on the docks at Baltimore Harbor. He started carrying a piece at age 72. Said takes too much time for old bones to heal. I am 76 and thinking about it.

It would be interesting to survey survivors of crimes where victims came in contact with armed perpetrators and feared for their safety/lives to see if the majority gravitate towards stricter gun laws/repealing 2nd Amendment or towards wanting to arm themselves in the future.

I have never owned a gun, never felt a need to have one until about 7 years ago. I was in my office late one weekend and someone broke the glass entry door of the adjacent suite to steal some computer equipment. I had no idea if he was planning on breaking into my suite next and since the office building security system was off due to my presence in the building, the only thing between me and him was an interior connecting door. I turned off my light, called 911 and hid under my desk.

I will tell you I am more likely to want to own a gun now than looking for increased gun or crime legislation. No enactment of law was going to help me if I faced that situation again. I would assume that a criminal breaking into my office was just as likely have an legal or illegal gun regardless of legislation. 7 years have passed and I still don't own a gun, but I always think about it again when one of these events goes down.

There is nothing like the fear of hiding and hoping a perpetrator doesn't come through that door and find you. You sit there helpless as you realize you have no way of defending yourself against him/her. The victims at Pulse who couldn't get out and were trapped in bathrooms, offices, etc., went through a much greater hell than my 8 minutes of panic (I didn't even know if the guy was armed, the door never opened and there weren't dead bodies all around).....I bet there were quite a few at Pulse that wanted a firearm in case "the door was opened". Your perspective on guns and self protection change when you have been a victim and that close to facing real threats while going about your daily life.

Anyone else been in similar circumstances? How did you feel about owning a gun before and after the incident?

Ending birthright citizenship, something that has never been a policy according to the constitution, would be a huge step in allowing the sanity to return.

This man was not a citizen at birth anymore than Awlaki was, which was not a citizen, and certainly not a natural born citizen.

You can't have people jumping the border (Mexican nationals) or flying in to birth a kid at a hotel (Chinese nationals), both in droves, and not expect major problems. These people are clearly gaming the situation, and never were subject to our jurisdiction in any way different than a tourist is. Wong Kim Ark's parents (if you want case law) had lived in the US, permanently domiciled, LEGALLY here when he was born, that case being decided in 1898.

If it smells fishy, it is. Birthright citizenship has been a lie that has been perpetrated on the American people for so long they forgot to actually wonder why such a stupid thing existed; just took it for granted. Then one day we woke up and were sold out. There's a reason no other country allows this (save for Canada) --- it is anti-national, and stupid.

You were hiding under your desk, you said there was an interconnecting door to the adjacent suite. Honest question now, did it not occur to you stand beside that door and hit anything that walked thru it with a computer monitor or something? I would stand a decent chance wielding a keyboard if I got in the first whack!

I am an older man, I have carried off and on for many years. Sometimes I was appropriately permitted, sometimes I wasn't. I have, to the best of my failing recollection, I have brandished a handgun twice. Both times diffused a serious unfolding situation where I was able to extricate myself without firing. Both times were hair trigger close. No one should ever brandish a weapon, gun, knife, baseball bat, keyboard, unless you have already considered the implications of such an action far in advance. If you thought it thru already, and that unfortunate time comes before you? Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

I don't carry at this point, though I am considering it. I am well versed on weapons and I shoot well enough to cause grave injury if necessary.

I do have a 12 gauge at arms reach with shells close by...break in my house, you may have an issue...

Quote: Paradigm

Your perspective on guns and self protection change when you have been a victim and that close to facing real threats while going about your daily life.

Certainly.

Jim Brady started an antigun movement after being put in a wheelchair by Ronald Reagan's potential assassin.

Many of the Sandy Hook parents have been moved likewise to campaign against gun violence.

I am not a sissy, but would have went for under the desk myself. Lots of burglars are looking to feed their habit. I have seen firsthand that if a guy is high, you have to damn near kill him to contain him. You can always replace property.

But to each his own. In my younger day, I was stupider. It was only about age 50, when in an argument that looked like the idiot might hit me, that instead of making a fist, I wrapped my hand around a hole puncher.

Quote: TwoFeathersATL

You were hiding under your desk, you said there was an interconnecting door to the adjacent suite. Honest question now, did it not occur to you stand beside that door and hit anything that walked thru it with a computer monitor or something? I would stand a decent chance wielding a keyboard if I got in the first whack!

No doubt a better strategy could have been employed. Now I have an aluminum baseball bat under my desk for that type of "first whack" defense. My goal was darkness and as little noise as possible. Under the desk I was able to whisper to the 911 operator and not be heard. Easier to armchair the events after the fact, there was a bit of adrenaline going at the time and I was not prepared. I think about things a little differently now and how I would react in a similar situation in the future. Still no gun though as of today.

Quote: Lando

Ending birthright citizenship, something that has never been a policy according to the constitution, would be a huge step in allowing the sanity to return.

It's in the 14th amendment to the Constitution.

Quote:

There's a reason no other country allows this (save for Canada) --- it is anti-national, and stupid.

30 other countries allow it besides the U.S. and Canada, and about 20 more allow it with some restrictions.

This is a must watch. Anderson Cooper completely destroys Pam Bondi over her LGBT hypocrisy:



And I see Trump tweeted this earlier:

Quote: realDonaldTrump

Thank you to the LGBT community! I will fight for you while Hillary brings in more people that will threaten your freedoms and beliefs.

Thanks for what?

Sorry, Donny. It doesn't work like that. Youre not going to be able to pit one group against another in order to get votes. No matter how hard you try to scare us.

Quote: Paradigm

No doubt a better strategy could have been employed. Now I have an aluminum baseball bat under my desk for that type of "first whack" defense. My goal was darkness and as little noise as possible. Under the desk I was able to whisper to the 911 operator and not be heard. Easier to armchair the events after the fact, there was a bit of adrenaline going at the time and I was not prepared. I think about things a little differently now and how I would react in a similar situation in the future. Still no gun though as of today.

I did not mean to question your actions, pls do not misunderstand. No one should find themselves in that situation, the situation is wrong, not how they react to it. Any reaction is perfectly acceptable, even no reaction HAS to be acceptable.
I like your baseball bat. Within 48 inches a good batter beats a so-so gun wielder almost 100% of the time. There is that tiny percentage, admittedly. At least they went down swinging ;-)

Be nice if it turned out to be true.

Quote:

The U.S.-led coalition fighting the Islamic State said Tuesday it could not confirm reports that Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi had been killed in a U.S. airstrike.

Army Col. Chris Garver, the top spokesman for the coalition in Iraq, told USA TODAY he was aware of the reports from the Islamic news agency AlhlulBayt and other sources. Garver said that, if true, al-Baghdadi's death would be welcome news but would not signal the end of the fight.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-cant-confirm-reports-islamic-state-leader-killed/ar-AAh1PJZ?ocid=spartanntp

I know after terror attacks that ISIS claims support for, different countries have ordered intense airstrikes in the days afterwards. We may have done the same and just got lucky and killed that guy.

Quote: rxwine

I know after terror attacks that ISIS claims support for, different countries have ordered intense airstrikes in the days afterwards. We may have done the same and just got lucky and killed that guy.

I am encouraged that it looks like we did something, but I really think that we should be prepared to launch a vicious attack on many positions killing leaders, rank and file, etc. whenever they attack us.

I don't believe for a minute that playing nice will work with Radical Islamic Terrorists--they don't want us to exist. Since they have used violence of an extreme nature to unleash their terror on us, we should react in a large way for their killing of people in America enjoying the American way of life.

Deleted ( meaning whoopsie ;-)

Quote: TwoFeathersATL

I did not mean to question your actions, pls do not misunderstand.

No offense taken, it was a fair question. I'd likely still take a defensive position, just with bat in hand and surroundings that would allow me to swing it. The goal is no confrontation, but if forced, bat in hand is better than nothing :-).

Quote: Paradigm

No doubt a better strategy could have been employed. Now I have an aluminum baseball bat under my desk for that type of "first whack" defense. My goal was darkness and as little noise as possible. Under the desk I was able to whisper to the 911 operator and not be heard. Easier to armchair the events after the fact, there was a bit of adrenaline going at the time and I was not prepared. I think about things a little differently now and how I would react in a similar situation in the future. Still no gun though as of today.

There seems always be a learning experience when going through things the first time. The weird shock of hitting a human being with your fist full on, and in your situation, adrenaline can get in the way of snap judgements and actions as it pumps though your brain, distracting you. But now those feelings aren't new, aren't distracting. You've been there, done that. More time is done thinking and less unknown action. You now can look back and think of things you could have done. You now have conditioned your mind to not waste time with what if's but 'now to do's'. You survived to learn. Now learn to survive. Once one is violated in some way, lots of people lose some of the fear of the unknown and are better prepared in the future. Not all people, but some. I had a handgun stuck into my cheek, I flinched and stumbled and the asshole pulled the trigger. It misfired. He ran away. Had a shotgun put to my head, but that time there was no intention to pull the trigger, just get me to the ground. I know a store owner, punk kid was robing him and kept waving the gun in his face saying he's going to blow his head off....kid looked away for a second, owner pulled his own weapon from the counter and blew the kids head off. He told me he never felt so sick in his life. Never thought he could do such a thing. But now, he said he wouldn't hesitate if felt threatened again.

Of all the horrendous videos out today, every day on the internet, specially the isis horrible propaganda, did you ever think you could handle seeing a human being beheaded like they do? People adapt, get sensitized, horrible events get repeated a zillion times in a few days visually, viscerally and we somehow accept things to go on our business. We have to have a buffer to function. A lot of this likely is really a sub conscience thing.

Quote: Paradigm

I'd likely still take a defensive position, just with bat in hand and surroundings that would allow me to swing it. The goal is no confrontation, but if forced, bat in hand is better than nothing :-).

Tony owned a candy store.

One day, a customer he never saw before, comes in and asks for a carton of Winstons.

As Tony places the carton on the counter, the customer reaches into his waistband and pulls out a gun.

"And give me your money."

Tony gave him the money, and the robber fled.

The following week, another customer who Tony never saw before, comes in and asks for a carton of Winstons.

No one fools Tony twice.

As Tony puts the carton on the counter with one hand, he reaches under the counter with the other.

Customer reaches for his waistband.

"And give me..."

He never got a chance to finish his sentence.

Tony came up with a baseball bat and slammed him in the head for all he was worth.

The would be robber went down, and as Tony came around the counter for more batting practice, the thief managed to scramble out the door to his awaiting getaway car.

Donald Trump is now advocating for a common sense gun control measure:

Quote: realDonaldTrump

I will be meeting with the NRA, who has endorsed me, about not allowing people on the terrorist watch list, or the no fly list, to buy guns.

Quote: Tanko

No one fools Tony twice.

As Tony puts the carton on the counter with one hand, he reaches under the counter with the other.

Customer reaches for his waistband.

"And give me..."

He never got a chance to finish his sentence.

Tony came up with a baseball bat and slammed him in the head for all he was worth. ....

... and as Tony came around the counter for more batting practice, Tony found a note from the customers wife clutched in his unconscious hand.."Honey, please pick up a box of Tampons when you get your cigs. Love you!!.

Quote: ams288

Errr... There was an armed security guard at the club.

So lets hear it then: did he get cut down in the first burst? did he run for the exit? ????

This was not a terror attack,,, just a madman with an assault rifle and some delusions of grandeur about ISIS of which he probably knew little. He had a wife and he spent three years in a GAY bar? Kinda conflicted there I think. In reality (something short in his world) had he trekked to Syria ISIS would have sent him home.

Now there are reports that as many as a dozen victims were shot by the police. Evidently they tried to blow a hole into the wall but didn't use enoughh explosives and the hole wasn't large enough to enter. An Officer then drove his truck into the wall in an attempt to expand the hole while others lay down suppressing fire, evidently hitting the hostages.

Quote: FleaStiff

This was not a terror attack,,, just a madman with an assault rifle and some delusions of grandeur about ISIS of which he probably knew little. He had a wife and he spent three years in a GAY bar? Kinda conflicted there I think. In reality (something short in his world) had he trekked to Syria ISIS would have sent him home.

ISIS took credit for the attack immediately afterwards. Since this whole "closet homosexual" angle has come out, I wonder if they've backtracked on that any...

"Oh, wait, he was GAY?? Maybe we DON'T want to take credit for this...."

Quote: billryan

Now there are reports that as many as a dozen victims were shot by the police. Evidently they tried to blow a hole into the wall but didn't use enoughh explosives and the hole wasn't large enough to enter. An Officer then drove his truck into the wall in an attempt to expand the hole while others lay down suppressing fire, evidently hitting the hostages.

Between the three hours the hostages were held and the alligator-control problems at the Disney World lagoon, the Orlando and Florida authorities do not come off looking very competent.

Quote: ams288

Donald Trump is now advocating for a common sense gun control measure:

Quote: realDonaldTrump

I will be meeting with the NRA, who has endorsed me, about not allowing people on the terrorist watch list, or the no fly list, to buy guns.

It seems that they are already on board with this idea...but people need to be put on the list and law enforcement must have the right list...

“The NRA does not want terrorists or dangerous people to have firearms, any suggestion otherwise is offensive and wrong,” said Jennifer Baker, director of public affairs. “Under the current system, law enforcement is notified every time a person on the list attempts to purchase a firearm. Law Enforcement then makes a case by case decision on the appropriate follow-up for each circumstance.

https://www.nraila.org/issues/terrorist-watchlistno-fly-list/

Quote: RonC

“The NRA does not want terrorists or dangerous people to have firearms, any suggestion otherwise is offensive and wrong,” said Jennifer Baker, director of public affairs. “Under the current system, law enforcement is notified every time a person on the list attempts to purchase a firearm. Law Enforcement then makes a case by case decision on the appropriate follow-up for each circumstance."

And law enforcement, for a variety of reasons, has not been as successful as it should be in dealing with these cases.

Quote: SanchoPanza

And law enforcement, for a variety of reasons, has not been as successful as it should be in dealing with these cases.

This is often a problem with laws. A law or rule is written and put in place. Then it is not enforced or administered properly. Something happens. Now people want a new law that does more than the old law. Most of the time (not all), just enforcing the original law would solve a lot of problems. Then people could address any real holes in the law.

I saw some video of people being carried towards the nightclub from in front of a dunkin donuts like staged actors as victims with the police helping get them there. I try not to get too much into conspiracies because it tends to drive people away from the ideas of liberty but it was a really weird video to see.

Quote: rudeboyoi

I saw some video of people being carried towards the nightclub from in front of a dunkin donuts like staged actors as victims with the police helping get them there. I try not to get too much into conspiracies because it tends to drive people away from the ideas of liberty but it was a really weird video to see.

In the comments below the screen, someone pointed out that the people were most likely those who left the bar/club when they could flee to relative safety and returned when the scene quieted down because that is where the emergency medical services etc. were stationed. One follow-up poster reacted to that with a strong dose of pure vitriol.

Quote: rudeboyoi

I saw some video of people being carried towards the nightclub from in front of a dunkin donuts like staged actors as victims with the police helping get them there. I try not to get too much into conspiracies because it tends to drive people away from the ideas of liberty but it was a really weird video to see.

Oh boy!!

Move away from the keyboard.