IS American Pharaoh now retired?

It's been 37 years since a triple crown and surely things have changed as far as the immediate huge value of the horse and the risk to that value of racing further, say in the breeders cup.

No. Keeneland. Halloween. Then retired.

Quote: kewlj

It's been 37 years since a triple crown and surely things have changed as far as the immediate huge value of the horse and the risk to that value of racing further, say in the breeders cup.

NBC is reporting that AP will finish this season, then retire. Breeding rights have already been sold.

News reports I've seen say no more racing.

In an interview after the race, they said they would take some time off and then point him towards a race at the end of summer (maybe travers) and then the breeder's cup.

I figure just saying that is a negotiating tactic. If rights have been sold, the purchaser of those rights will not want the horse running a again, and if rights haven't been sold, you risk the whole investment, by running the horse again, should he break down.

I know this is going to sound silly. But now that I'm at least stepping my baby toe into the horse ownership game, I think it's better for him to keep racing. When my filly retires, we'll want to breed her obviously. What I look for is a horse that is sound. The way you prove soundness is by racing.

These stallions that retire with less than 10 races are not good for the sport. If Pharoah is sound he should race through the end of the year, and he should really race next year too. He is of course an unbelievable talent, but why not let him face older horses?

I understand that it's a financial risk, but if he is in perfect health, let him race.

Quote: FinsRule

I know this is going to sound silly. But now that I'm at least stepping my baby toe into the horse ownership game, I think it's better for him to keep racing. When my filly retires, we'll want to breed her obviously. What I look for is a horse that is sound. The way you prove soundness is by racing.

These stallions that retire with less than 10 races are not good for the sport. If Pharoah is sound he should race through the end of the year, and he should really race next year too. He is of course an unbelievable talent, but why not let him face older horses?

I understand that it's a financial risk, but if he is in perfect health, let him race.

I think you are looking through the eyes of a racing fan, even though your tabbling in ownership.

You need to look from an investment viewpoint. Right now they have this asset that is worth Megabucks.

Here are the 3 possibilities:

1.) You race a handful of races, win, earn some purse money, which is really pennies on the dollar compared to the stud fee he will earn. Does the Stud value increase with a couple more stakes wins? A breeders cup win? Maybe a little, but it's the triple crown winner that really sets that value.

2.) You race a handful of stakes races and/or breeders cup and lose. Now what, does his stud value decrease.

3.) And this is the biggie. Horse breaks down and has to be destroyed. Your huge asset is worth zero in the matter of a few seconds.

If you honestly weigh risk vs reward, it's not really close. Maybe if there is some sort of specialized insurance policy to cover just this situation, but other than that, you cannot risk your asset.

Sadly, this is the exact same situation as a top athlete coming out of college. You hate to put it in terms of a human being an asset, but that is exactly the case. I believe their are specialized insurance policies that can be purchased to protect such situation somewhat, but surely, wouldn't come close to covering what a really superstar athlete could make in a career.

Quote: NokTang

News reports I've seen say no more racing.

ESPN reports the owner wants him to race again this year. I'm pretty sure the Breeders Cup Classic is the target, especially if the owner is leaving the exact schedule up to Baffert.

Of course, the day after the Belmont and a few weeks/months later are two entirely different things.

Quote: ThatDonGuy

ESPN reports the owner wants him to race again this year. I'm pretty sure the Breeders Cup Classic is the target, especially if the owner is leaving the exact schedule up to Baffert.

Of course, the day after the Belmont and a few weeks/months later are two entirely different things.

I think that is just a negotiating tactic.

I can understand racing him another race fins, but racing next year just sounds like lunacy from a risk standpoint.

Not a normal horse, there's really not much to be proved or gained like a typical racehorse. First triple crown winner in Almost 40 years, game over. All he can do by racing more is confirm what's thought of him, decline, or get injured.

I completely understand the financials from the Zayat's side. Retiring him makes more sense.

But

1. I think for the sake of the breed/sport, stallions should be 5 before allowed to breed.
2. If I'm spending six figures (or five in my case) to send my mare to a stallion, I'm going to want to send her to a horse with more than 8 races.

Lots of good comments already posted.

I personally would love to see him continue racing. One prep in Septemberish and then the Breeders Cup Classic. It would be great for the sport wrt exposure and publicity (all the tracks involved and states/cities, horseman, riders etc...). He deserves a little rest right now. In a few months if he is looking and feeling good, maybe he starts really training for a few more races. He could even lose a race or 2 and not hurt his breeding value one bit. He is and always will be a Triple Crown winner.

From his owner's standpoint...
He has plenty of money. Winning huge races in the spotlight sure sounds a lot more fun than counting your investment return from the breeding shed. Winning @ Keeneland in the Breeders Cup would be pretty awesome from an owner/breeder standpoint. Imagine if he had been healthy for the Breeders Cup Juvenile @ Santa Anita in 2014? He might be on an 8 race win streak (including 7 Grade one wins and one Grade 2 win!). The older horse division certainly feels a little light right now. He most likely already has the Eclipse Horse of the Year and Champion 3yo honors locked up. A Breeders Cup win would be the "cherry on top".

All that said, I am fine if he is done racing...but I really wanted to get in a few more "value" plays against him. :) :) :)

From the horses' POV, I think he LOVES to race. So, just for his sake, I hope they let him. I could be wrong; I don't claim to be a horse whisperer. But I can't see him going to stud/pasture and enjoying the next 20 years never racing again, not with the start he's had.

Quote: beachbumbabs

From the horses' POV, I think he LOVES to race. So, just for his sake, I hope they let him. I could be wrong; I don't claim to be a horse whisperer. But I can't see him going to stud/pasture and enjoying the next 20 years never racing again, not with the start he's had.

Do you honestly think horses love to race, get whipped down the stretch, experimented on with drugs? This reminds me of the stories about Michael Vick and his friends electrocuting dogs who lost fights in front of the other dogs they owned, in the kennel/(could have been a barn but with the other dogs as witnesses after a loss) to teach them not to lose. This is a great racing horse I just don't think animals love to race anymore than dogs love to fight as "owners" claim with pit bulls.

Quote: NokTang

Do you honestly think horses love to race, get whipped down the stretch, experimented on with drugs? This reminds me of the stories about Michael Vick and his friends electrocuting dogs who lost fights in front of the other dogs they owned, in the kennel/(could have been a barn but with the other dogs as witnesses after a loss) to teach them not to lose. This is a great racing horse I just don't think animals love to race anymore than dogs love to fight as "owners" claim with pit bulls.

Based on your responses in the sports betting thread, I don't think it's a good use of time responding. Because you're just going to disagree with the response anyway no matter how logical.

Quote: NokTang

Do you honestly think horses love to race, get whipped down the stretch, experimented on with drugs? This reminds me of the stories about Michael Vick and his friends electrocuting dogs who lost fights in front of the other dogs they owned, in the kennel/(could have been a barn but with the other dogs as witnesses after a loss) to teach them not to lose. This is a great racing horse I just don't think animals love to race anymore than dogs love to fight as "owners" claim with pit bulls.

Yes, I do think some horses love to race. It's part of their herd traits to compete and play and demonstrate their superiority to other horses. Just like with dogs, there are abusive training procedures, and then there are those that encourage and develop a horse's potential and ability.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Yes, I do think some horses love to race. It's part of their herd traits to compete and play and demonstrate their superiority to other horses. Just like with dogs, there are abusive training procedures, and then there are those that encourage and develop a horse's potential and ability.

I would have to agree here. The same thing happens with sled dogs in AK. Lots of hard work, but the dogs love it. Anyone who denies this needs to see what happens with the dogs who are not selected to pull the sled for a day of practice. They go crazy, whining and barking.

In the end, racing is the horse's "job" and like most intelligent beings, the horse will get satisfaction from it done well.

There is no financial risk. Horses are insured. Horses that are worth any real money are anyway.