Convince me to max bet with $200 freeplay

normally I get like $30 freeplay.
I use it on 'up to 98%' Blazing 7's slots @ max bet ($3/spin). 10 spins and I'm done. off to play craps.

but with $200, I'm thinking $2/spin. I still get some $ for 777 and I get 33% more spins (100 vs 67).
my goal is to have fun.


What say you?


edit:
or .50 8/5 JoB (97.3%) for 80 spins?

usually the less bets the better, but freeplay can be weird, for example [if allowed] betting freeplay on a number in roulette is a great AP play, the reason for which is over my head

so maybe somebody knows why it is best to go one way or the other, I wouldnt want to say

Quote: 100xOdds

or .50 8/5 JoB (97.3%) for 80 spins?

I am a fan of 3 line video poker (JoB or BP) for freeplay. (At 50c, this would be 26 rounds.)

The 1-2-3 at the bottom of the paytable is nicely suited to 3 line ("Triple Play").

I've also had good luck with video blackjack.

I haven't played enough deuces games to have a feel for them, they've just never clicked for me. (I only play deuces if I see a multiplier on Ultimate X.)

Quote: 100xOdds

my goal is to have fun.

My suggestion would be to take the money and go find something fun to do, then.

Otherwise, find an older video slot with an amusing bonus.

it really depends on what your goal is. You should always have a goal and a gameplan when using free play.
Basically the options are:
1. I want to win something huge, but I am willing to go home with nothing.

2. I want to turn my $200 free play into $200 cash.

3. I want to use my $200 free play and gamble and drink all night.

Answer which one of those that you are interested in and the answer becomes simple.

Quote: GWAE

it really depends on what your goal is. You should always have a goal and a gameplan when using free play.
Basically the options are:
1. I want to win something huge, but I am willing to go home with nothing.

2. I want to turn my $200 free play into $200 cash.

3. I want to use my $200 free play and gamble and drink all night.

Answer which one of those that you are interested in and the answer becomes simple.

1a) play their best game: $5 deuces wild44 (98.9%)
at $25/spin, I only get 8 spins. Royal = $20k. quad 2's = $5k?

1b) 98% $1 Blazing 7's at max bet ($3/spin)
67spins - trying to hit 777 for $200, $300, or progressive ($1000 - $1200)


2a) .50 8/5 JoB (97.3%)
80 spins

2b) 98% $1 Blazing 7's at $2/spin
100 spins - Tying to hit those triple Bars for $60 but still get $100, $150, or $500 for 777.


3) not interested


probably going to go for 2b unless there's one with a progressive > $1150 then i'll do 1b

Quote: Dieter

I am a fan of 3 line video poker (JoB or BP) for freeplay. (At 50c, this would be 26 rounds.)

The 1-2-3 at the bottom of the paytable is nicely suited to 3 line ("Triple Play").

I don't understand. how is the 1-2-3 payout nicely suited to Triple play?

Quote: 100xOdds

I don't understand. how is the 1-2-3 payout nicely suited to Triple play?

My subjective and inaccurate observations say so.

3 line just seems to work out better for me than single line, 5 line, or 10 line when I'm trying to monetize free play. (Subjectively, 3 line does not help with UTX, or a DB or DDB paytable.)

Obviously, your mileage may vary, and I've been enjoying a positive swing of variance for too long, and have come to expect it to continue.

Quote: Dieter

My subjective and inaccurate observations say so.

3 line just seems to work out better for me than single line, 5 line, or 10 line when I'm trying to monetize free play. (Subjectively, 3 line does not help with UTX, or a DB or DDB paytable.)

Obviously, your mileage may vary, and I've been enjoying a positive swing of variance for too long, and have come to expect it to continue.

ok, for a change of pace, i'll try 3line 8/5 JoB.

Quote: odiousgambit

usually the less bets the better, but freeplay can be weird, for example [if allowed] betting freeplay on a number in roulette is a great AP play, the reason for which is over my head

so maybe somebody knows why it is best to go one way or the other, I wouldnt want to say

Can someone answer why this would be true? I don't see how this would be a great AP play. First, at the casinos I play at, you can only use 'Free Play' on slots and sometimes video poker (never table games). If there happens to be one of those electronic roulette tables, and video poker is not allowed for the Free Play, then I can see how playing roulette would be good idea. But if the casino has electronic roulette, they might have electronic blackjack or electronic craps, which I think would be a better deal.

Sometimes I get promo chips or match play, and those can be used at the table, but only for even money bets. betting this on single number is out of the question. even if it were allowed, I would prefer using these on blackjack anyway.

Quote: odiousgambit

usually the less bets the better, but freeplay can be weird, for example [if allowed] betting freeplay on a number in roulette is a great AP play, the reason for which is over my head

so maybe somebody knows why it is best to go one way or the other, I wouldnt want to say

I think you're confusing free play with promo chips. The ones they take when you win.

in that case a single number would be better.

Quote: Avincow

if it were allowed, I would prefer using these on blackjack anyway.

If they take the promo chips when you win. It's worth far less on BJ or Black and red,
then single numbers.

Quote: 100xOdds

ok, for a change of pace, i'll try 3line 8/5 JoB.

Good luck! Hopefully your results are at least as good as my usual.

Of course, if you see an opportunity to play off the first $27 or so vulturing UTX, do so, and if it turns out that 3 line isn't working (your subjective judgement here), go and have fun in the way you otherwise would.

Quote: AxelWolf

I think you're confusing free play with promo chips. The ones they take when you win.

yes, I did. Still don't know the "why"

Quote: odiousgambit

yes, I did. Still don't know the "why"

Someone like mission with better writing and math skills could explain why better.

Basically in blackjack or even money bets you're giving the casino more opportunities to take your promo chips because you have a better chance at wining the bet. That's not good. You want to win less often so they don't get a chance to take your chips.

about 50% of the time they will take your chip.

playing a single Roulette number they are worth a bit over 90%. Because you win less often, when you do win its a big win, but they only get your promo chip the one time.

By the time I finish this someone will have a far better explanation.

Quote: AxelWolf

You want to win less often so they don't get a chance to take your chips.

about 50% of the time they will take your chip.

I'm confused - if you win, they take your chip, but if you lose, they push your chip?

I would expect that win or lose, they take your promo chip.

Quote: AxelWolf

Someone like mission with better writing and math skills could explain why better.

Basically in blackjack or even money bets you're giving the casino more opportunities to take your promo chips because you have a better chance at wining the bet. That's not good. You want to win less often so they don't get a chance to take your chips.

about 50% of the time they will take your chip.

playing a single Roulette number they are worth a bit over 90%. Because you win less often, when you do win its a big win, but they only get your promo chip the one time.

By the time I finish this someone will have a far better explanation.

Say a promo chip is $10

Bj: 46% of the time you win $10 (46% might not be exactly accurate but it doesn't matter).
Roulette: 1/38 of the times you win $350

Bj: 0.46 * $10 . EV = $4.6
Roulette: 1/38 * $10*35 = 350/38. EV = $9.21

Using double zero roulette

The longer shots are better with Match Play (you match the bet), Promotional (Win or Lose they take the chip) or Non-Negotiable (You win in cashable chips and your non-negotiable chip stays up) in almost all cases. Match Plays are typically limited to Even Money bets, but if they weren't, you'd generally be better off going with a long-shot.

The reason for this is because you have to look at the result in actual $$$ won or lost, relative to the amount you are risking. To keep it simple, we're going to look only at 00 Roulette:

Match Play $10

(700 * 1/38) - (10 * 37/38) = 8.68421052632 = 186.84% EV relative to wager of $10.

(20 * 18/38) - (10 * 20/38) = 4.21052631579 = 142.11% EV relative to wager of $10.

In either case, you are winning relative to a $20 bet, but only losing relative to a $10 bet.

Promotional Play $10-Taken Whether you Win or Lose

(350 * 1/38) = 9.21052631579 = 92.11%

(10 * 18/38) = 4.73684210526 = 47.37%

In this case, you are winning relative to a $10 wager, but can lose nothing.

Non-Negotiable $10, Stays Up on Win

This is a bit different, because it (by necessity) factors in the possibility of the bet winning any number of times. However, an easy way to look at it is that, to get the pay from a $10 single number win ($350), you'd need an Even Money bet to win thirty-five consecutive times:

(18/38)^35 = 4.386436e-12

Which is obviously much less likely than the 1/38 = 2.632% probability of winning on a single number bet once.

There are a number of possibilities that fall in there, such as winning an Even Money bet two, five, sixteen or one-hundred and forty-nine consecutive times, as well as a long-shot winning more than once consecutively, for example, if you look at 700 * winning a single number twice:

700 * (1/38)^2 = 0.48476454293

350 * (1/38) * (37/38) = 8.96814404432

8.968144 + .4847645 = 9.4529085 or a 94.53% ER with other possibilities making up the total of the overall 94.59% ER according to this chart:

https://wizardofodds.com/gambling/promotional-chips/

Compared to an ER of 90% for Even Money bets, which factors in all possibilities with respect to consecutive wins.

Conclusion

Free Play operates a little differently than any of this because you are not risking your own money, but at the same time, you get paid on the amount bet as well as the win. Thus, if you bet on an Even Money bet on Roulette and it hits, you see a profit of two units. If you bet on a single number, you'll get the 35 units win and the original unit bet for 36 units.

With the Match Plays, Promotional Chips and Non-Negotiable Chips, you don't get the original bet back on the promotional part of the bet...at least not to keep...you get it to bet again on the Non-Negotiable chip.

For this reason, your best expectation on Free Play is simply going to be whatever returns the highest because the Free Play effectively operates as though you were betting actual money. In most cases, this means that Video Poker will have the best return (but E-Blackjack and/or Video Blackjack) can be worth looking at for ER depending on the return percentage and also has lower Variance.

Thanks guys, still a counter-intuitive element here for me. On the other hand this statement:

Quote: mission

Match Play $10 ... you are winning relative to a $20 bet, but only losing relative to a $10 bet.

is helping me get my mind wrapped around it

Quote: Dieter

Good luck! Hopefully your results are at least as good as my usual.

Of course, if you see an opportunity to play off the first $27 or so vulturing UTX, do so, and if it turns out that 3 line isn't working (your subjective judgement here), go and have fun in the way you otherwise would.

$1 8/5 JoB progressive (3line)

started off good.
got dealt trips for the 1st 2 spins!

then not much afterwards but still managed to turn the $200 freeplay into $205 cash!

unfortunately, I lost track of how many hands I played.
$200/15 = 13.333

so after 13 spins, I should have stopped and just played 1 line at another machine.

when I stopped, I didn't hit anything with my last spin so -$15.
and apparently I cleared the freeplay since all $205 came to me.

so I could have had at least $10 more if that was my 14th spin. oh well.

this is the 2nd time I turned freeplay into 100+% return.

the other time was $30 free play and I played the 'up to 98%' Blazing 7's slots at $2/spin (instead of max bet).
Hit the triple Bars for $60.

Quote: 100xOdds

this is the 2nd time I turned freeplay into 100+% return.

glad you're having good results. Turning freeplay into cash is quite do-able I've found, however, I have not had the pleasure of working with $200!

Quote: odiousgambit

Thanks guys, still a counter-intuitive element here for me. On the other hand this statement:



is helping me get my mind wrapped around it

As I said they could put it into written words better than I could. It makes sense in my head even without the math.

If you really want to get a better understanding.

Set up a pretend scenario on paper(like the system bettors do:) with Roulette and Blackjack with 38 promo chips. pretend you hit your roulette number once. Go through the motions of Blackjack round up as if you had a 50/50 scenario.

If it's just a few $10 promo chips I just take it to whatever game is convenient.
But, There have been a few Table games promotion where a significant amount of promo chips were your reward, Being able to maximize the value in that situation made a huge difference.(luckily they allowed roulette)

Unfortunately oftentimes they don't allow roulette (cheap bastards). It especially pisses me off when the disallow field bets with match plays, with coupons and promotion chips or whatever (idiots).

Now the question should be .... Do you double down and split more aggressively with the promo chips? (I'm going to say yes) Is there a strategy for this scenario?(split 10s VS 6?) and how much does it add to the value of the chips? Anyone?

Quote: 100xOdds

$1 8/5 JoB progressive (3line)

started off good.
got dealt trips for the 1st 2 spins!

this is the 2nd time I turned freeplay into 100+% return.

Nice run!

I might have avoided the progressive, if there was an 8/6 (or 9/5) option.

Quote: Dieter

Nice run!

I might have avoided the progressive, if there was an 8/6 (or 9/5) option.

there was a $5 8/6 JoB and a $5 Deuces wild 44 (98.9%)
but at $25/spin, I only had 8 spins.

and since I never hit a flush or full house, it didn't matter if it was 6/5 or 9/6 JoB. :P


hm.. now to come to think of it, is there much difference between $15/spin at Triple 8/5 JoB and $25/spin at single line DW44?

Quote: 100xOdds

and since I never hit a flush or full house, it didn't matter if it was 6/5 or 9/6 JoB. :P

Isn't that like saying "since I never hit a royal, it doesn't matter that I wasn't playing 5 coins"?

Quote: 100xOdds

hm.. now to come to think of it, is there much difference between $15/spin at Triple 8/5 JoB and $25/spin at single line DW44?

Do you get more dealt 3oKs in JoB, or more dealt flushes in Deuces?

Which one has gotten you 100%+ more often? ;)

Quote: AxelWolf

Unfortunately oftentimes they don't allow roulette (cheap bastards). It especially pisses me off when the disallow field bets with match plays, with coupons and promotion chips or whatever (idiots).

Last time I had promo chips, they declined to inform me that it was even-money only, despite asking if I could bet them there, and having a rack of real chips with me.

Also heard a complaint about Binion's promo chips where the guy pushed a hand and they took it, stating it was valid for one use only.