My first AP and a nice win!!
I was here originally to just play a little and about an hour of craps. Normally when I play single line I put in $100 and play $0.50 anytime I am over $100 and drop down to $0.25 when I am under $100. I put in my $100 plus my $121 and got the picture below. Once I get a good payout I cash out and put $150 back in and hopefully rinse and repeat.
I got crushed in craps and I lost some back on single line. I left +$200 for the day. I have to say that it gave me an added excitement getting to play with some multipliers and also with higher bets since I was over my $100 before I started.
Now my question. Is there an article or chart that shows when the multipliers are enough to get you in positive play or worth playing? I haven't looked at WoO so maybe it is over there.
Quote: RogerKintNice hit! Any multiplier makes it +ev.
so if it is a 5 play and there is a 2x on just one it is worth playing it? I figured you were paying for the chance at multipliers so it would take a little more than that.
Quote: GWAEso if it is a 5 play and there is a 2x on just one it is worth playing it? I figured you were paying for the chance at multipliers so it would take a little more than that.
The advantage isn't all that small, either. Think of the return to player this way ((95%)+(95%)+(95%)+(95%)+(95%*2x multiplier))/5 hands=114%
Quote: rdw4potusThe advantage isn't all that small, either. Think of the return to player this way ((95%)+(95%)+(95%)+(95%)+(95%*2x multiplier))/5 hands=114%
oh gee I didn't think of it that way. So with 5 hands of 3x it is 285%?
Now that is based on 5 credits per hand though, right?
Quote: GWAEoh gee I didn't think of it that way. So with 5 hands of 3x it is 285%?
Now that is based on 5 credits per hand though, right?
I don't know that it depends on how many credits you wager. I'd hope that with the royal bonus for 5 credits, you'd do better than 95% return...but Ultimate X doesn't usually have the best pay tables.
Quote: GWAEI was just reading WoO and he talked about playing at 5 credits instead of 10 on your last play. For those of you who play this game do you generally just play the 5 credits and not worry about future multipliers? I thought I would lose the multiplier if I only played 5 credits a line. I didn't realize you got them for that hand but didn't earn any for future hands. I was up a bit more but then I hit a 5 play at $0.25 that had 3 2x. I played and won on 3 hands but only 1 of them on the multiplier. I played again since there were 3 multipliers again but I lost on all hands. I took a beating for that play. If i would have just played 5 credits a line on the first play then I would have limited my loss by a bit. I know this is not even big enough to be compared a sample size but I am not sure what the best way to play if I am only playing left overs.
Just play one hand at 5. It makes your advantage much bigger. Everything that you pay past the 5 credits per hand has the normal house edge on the machine. Also, the fact that you are playing 5 means that you should follow the (simpler) regular strategy for the game, rather than the (ridiculously complicated) UX strategy.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceJust play one hand at 5. It makes your advantage much bigger. Everything that you pay past the 5 credits per hand has the normal house edge on the machine. Also, the fact that you are playing 5 means that you should follow the (simpler) regular strategy for the game, rather than the (ridiculously complicated) UX strategy.
Yeah for the highest return playing one round at 5 credits a hand is best. And I would keep looking for these GWAE. The fact that it's new there means more multipliers will be left behind. In a more mature market, you're happy to see any play on a machine. When I went to the local casino last week, I saw multiple people looking for these, ugh.
But I was able to hit this... tying my biggest VP win ever. This is why people vulture these things.
And nice hit with the 3s! Sorry you bricked the royal chance. I did that on my Vegas trip too that sucks.
Quote: tringlomaneYeah for the highest return playing one round at 5 credits a hand is best. And I would keep looking for these GWAE. The fact that it's new there means more multipliers will be left behind. In a more mature market, you're happy to see any play on a machine. When I went to the local casino last week, I saw multiple people looking for these, ugh.
But I was able to hit this... tying my biggest VP win ever. This is why people vulture these things.
And nice hit with the 3s! Sorry you bricked the royal chance. I did that on my Vegas trip too that sucks.
I am so tempted to make another drive tomorrow morning. It is 20 min each way so I don't know if it is worth it. I hope to get a nice win like you got there.
when you go after these plays do you use your players card? I can see maybe not using it if that is the only thing I were doing that day. On a day like today I used the card since I was playing other things anyways. I am not sure if the coin in is good or the coin in is bad since you are playing at such an advantage.
Quote: HunterhillGWAE Driving 20 minutes each way to vulture UX probably isn't worth it.However if you are willing to play 8/5Dbl Dbl Bonus. I don't think you should be concerned with if it is worth a drive or not. No disrespect but that's such a bad game. Isn't there something better you could play?
VP in PA is pretty sucky. 8/5 JOB is our best came but I like the hits I can get with the DDB. I know it is a horrible game but it is better than slots and I don't play that much so its ok.
As for the drive, you are right. Not worth the drive but I may do it on Saturday morning since I also have $75 free play. I have another casino that is less than 3 miles away and they don't have much either but maybe they got this to. I will check them out this week.
By the way, you said there were only two other machines prior to those five, you're missing two of them. There's one in the Clubhouse, which you can get into if it is not during the Clubhouse usual hours (i.e. if nobody is at that desk) there's also one in the high-limit room. The one in the Clubhouse has the same denominations as the two big ones in the smoking area, the one in High-Limit is $0.50/$1.00/$2.00/$5.00.
Big risk in high-limit, can be as high as $50/bet with ten hands at the $1.00 level, and usually multipliers are not left behind in high limit (only seen it once), but if you don't mind throwing that much at one go, there's a ton of $$$ value if you can find multipliers on those.
Also, you and I are the only ones vulturing those there, I think. The reason that I believe that is because there are so many different multipliers left behind on so many different games when I go there, that I just don't think anyone else is doing it.
I tend not to use my Player's Club card when vulturing those, just as a precaution, they can tell when you only make one play on a machine and switch machines, although, as long as you are also doing -EV gambling while there, then they may not care too much.
Finally, it is correct that you only want to bet five credits per hand, you're still at an overall advantage betting ten credits per hand if multipliers are left behind and the average (mean) multiplier, considering all hands, is greater than 2x, but there's still that God-awful to learn UX strategy to contend with. Best just to play Optimal for whatever game it is on the base game strategy by betting five credits/hand and move on. Actually, I just use Optimal JoB strategy for everything except DW, you're at a big enough advantage with the free multipliers that, in my opinion, it's not worth learning strategy on all those stupid JoB variations.
Here's one last tip: If you are playing Three, Five or Ten play, carry around a bunch of singles. The reason why is because those machines force you to play all hands if you have enough money in the machine to play all hands, at least at the location we're talking about, but if your multipliers are only on the bottom hands, or even on the very bottom hand, then you can put in enough money to only cover than hand or those hands without playing them all.
Quote: Mission146Stay away from my *&%^$^&^$&* Ultimate X machines!!!! j/k
yes sir... I will never play again ;-)
I have been in this casino 3 times in the last 6 weeks so I don't think I will add to your competition. Though it would suck if I went on my monthly visit and saw you sitting there.
I did know about the high limit room but I can not touch that as a $50 spin would be most of my money. Maybe one day I will check it out or maybe I should in case there is something crazy like multiple 11x left that would be worth the risk.
I have a gold card so I go into the clubhouse. I just didn't want to put the exact specifics out there. Not that it really matters.
BTW, how long have these new machines been there? I have not been to that side in a while. I suck at trying to figure out games to play so I don't scout to often. Usually scouting for me ends up negative because they will have a new slot machine that looks fun to play.
ETA: When I was there yesterday they were remodeling the place where they usually have concerts. They are calling it something else now. They were also cutting a huge hole in the wall. It looks like they are putting in doors directly from the garage instead of walking all the way down the hall. It is possibly only going to be used when the have concerts. Maybe it is a way for them to allow underage people to attend the concert.
Quote: djatcYou guys should see the Vegas casinos. Lots of hungry hustlers vulturing these things daily. Still hasn't stopped me from finding some though.
Almost any time I see a Ult X game I'll scroll through and look for next-hand multipliers. I've yet to see one. :(
I was in a high limit room looking for UTX games, and I finally found one across the room. Halfway between me and the machine was a vulture who swooped up on the machine, scrolled through all the games, played 1 spin, then left. :( :( :(
Quote: pewAt Trump plaza you have to bet ten for the multipliers. I wrote before that the casino is stealing one bet per player which should not be legal. Somethings not right there. I wonder if all A.C. casinos do that.
Seriously! That can't be right. The game wasn't designed that way. AC casinos have some multiplier vultures too. Not all AC casinos do that. Sorry to doubt you but if that is the case stinks for the vultures.
Quote: pewAt Trump plaza you have to bet ten for the multipliers. I wrote before that the casino is stealing one bet per player which should not be legal. Somethings not right there. I wonder if all A.C. casinos do that.
The reason I don't doubt it's possible for Trump to be doing this is, when I was playing PGP in AC a lot, their Fortune bet was 1 FOR with a $5 minimum and the same paytable (one of those tables that ate the bet via a slot run to the dealer's tray) rather than 1 TO whatever bonus hand you won. Played for 10 minutes while it dawned on me, and that was the end of me and Trump anything. 12 years now. Bleah. And Trump Plaza was the only house dealing it this way; even Trump Marina wasn't doing that to their players.
WARNING SYSTEM ALERT: GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL CAN.Quote: GWAEyes sir... I will never play again ;-)
I did know about the high limit room but I can not touch that as a $50 spin would be most of my money.
I suck at trying to figure out games to play so I don't scout to often. Usually scouting for me ends up negative because they will have a new slot machine that looks fun to play.
.
THIS PLAYER MAY SELF DESTRUCT IN .........2, 1, ?
GWAE: "Usually scouting for me ends up negative because they will have a new slot machine that looks fun to play."
This is in the top 3 things, why AP attempts fail (not saying you are or want to be one). I not saying AP's don't mess around, but if you are new to this and you can't even afford a UX high denomination. at the beginning you should be very discipline. I'm fearful we don't need anymore failed AP's finding their supposed true calling to the dark side.
something like that.Quote: Buzzard" Their supposed true calling to the dark side. " By that, do you mean they will wind up in casino management ?
Quote: AxelWolfWARNING SYSTEM ALERT: GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL CAN.
THIS PLAYER MAY SELF DESTRUCT IN .........2, 1, ?
GWAE: "Usually scouting for me ends up negative because they will have a new slot machine that looks fun to play."
This is in the top 3 things, why AP attempts fail (not saying you are or want to be one). I not saying AP's don't mess around, but if you are new to this and you can't even afford a UX high denomination. at the beginning you should be very discipline. I'm fearful we don't need anymore failed AP's finding their supposed true calling to the dark side.
haha yeah I suck. When I went the other day I only had $200 on me so it would suck to play a $50 spin. Now that I have learned something maybe I will go with a little more just in case.
BTW, I am not trying to be an AP but since coming to this site I have enjoyed taking a few shots at games that I wouldn't have before just because it makes me feel like I am doing it right. Even though I am not. Perception is reality.
Quote: IbeatyouracesYou can always play one credit per line up to the last line that has a multiplier on it. You'll still have a nice edge.
see you guys are always thinking. I get so hung up on the 5th coin but I guess really all that 5th coin is doing is getting the extra money for a royal. If I have to choose playing a 6x times for 1 coin or 0 coin I guess the 1 coin is always the winning choice.
what seems like a very basic thought like this for you is not even on the radar of us ploppies.
Quote: GWAE
I have been in this casino 3 times in the last 6 weeks so I don't think I will add to your competition. Though it would suck if I went on my monthly visit and saw you sitting there.
I'm not greedy, if you run into me there and want to split the risk, then I'm happy to split the reward. We'll just go to all the ones I hadn't hit yet.
Quote:I did know about the high limit room but I can not touch that as a $50 spin would be most of my money. Maybe one day I will check it out or maybe I should in case there is something crazy like multiple 11x left that would be worth the risk.
That's what I'm saying! I had one at ten-play dollars with multipliers all over the place, I can't even begin to imagine what the dealt hand was...maybe even nothing and whoever it was just hit a bunch of crap, or maybe three-to-a-royal, or something like that.
Anyway, if I only had $50 on me and would have to leave if I completely whiffed on all hands, then it would be $50 well-spent, especially if the mean hand has a multiplier of 2x, or better. You're just not going to get a better single play advantage than that in that casino.
Quote:BTW, how long have these new machines been there? I have not been to that side in a while. I suck at trying to figure out games to play so I don't scout to often. Usually scouting for me ends up negative because they will have a new slot machine that looks fun to play.
I don't know, they've been there since last month. There were Ultimate X machines there before, except they didn't actually say Ultimate X anywhere on the Main Menu. You had to go through and select all of the games and at the lowest three denominations ($.05, $.10, $.25) Ultimate X games were all on the far right while the $.50 and $1.00 denominations did not have Ultimate X. Those machines were replaced, or moved, all I know is I haven't been able to find them again...and I've been looking...otherwise there may be even more UX plays.
Quote:ETA: When I was there yesterday they were remodeling the place where they usually have concerts. They are calling it something else now. They were also cutting a huge hole in the wall. It looks like they are putting in doors directly from the garage instead of walking all the way down the hall. It is possibly only going to be used when the have concerts. Maybe it is a way for them to allow underage people to attend the concert.
They're doing a bunch of stuff, I know that Terrace Café is becoming The Carvery, also.
PS. Especially a high variance game
PSS. Especially in an upscale casino
PSSS. Especially full of clueless gamblers
PSSSS. Especially if they walk off and come back for more
PSSSSS. Especially if I am using Axel's money
Quote: BuzzardHopefully not the RAT squad, Surveillance !
Ouch......:)
You don't have much basis for calling us that. We don't even make the decisions to get you kicked out, we merely observe and report.....
Again, ouch :)
Quote: djatcI would cream my pants if I saw $1 UX's just lying around. $50 for 10 play with a decent spread of multipliers is a money maker.
Found a 3x at one of my locals recently at the $2 level. First time I have ever seen anything that high. Bricked a flush draw and lost $30, meh.
The question is did you pocket the $275, or did you hit the slots? If not, its looks like a monster AP is born, next thing we know, you will be in Vegas playing 25's.Quote: GWAEI went down to the casino that is a few miles away tonight to check out their UX. They have 5 machines that I saw but I didn't check out the high limit area. Of course being a Friday night all of the machines were taken. I figured I would wait a little while and play the normal machines near it. I did my normal play bouncing between JOB and DDB. I received AAAA2, AAAA4, and 2222A. You guessed it though, they were all on JOB. I did get a AAAAK on DDB so that was nice. It sucks though when you hold AK and the other 3 come in. Maybe if I held just the A I would have spiked the 2 as well. Anyways after only 30 min I was up $275 so I decided to run instead of waiting for the UX. I think I may go back down in the morning and take a look at them.
Back when Parx Casino first introduced table games, they also installed a few high denomination Ultimate X machines in Parx East. There were three or four dedicated high rollers who played them everyday and liked to move around a lot. Over the course of a few hours it was not unusual to find $300 to $400 worth of equity left behind.
Couple that with several nearby $15 to $1000 blackjack tables with the best rules (by Pennsylvania law) and an 80 to 90% penetration. A great time to be an AP.
By the way, Ultimate X now has a cousin that is equally as profitable (and perhaps more so). Multi-Streak Poker machines are all over in the Atlantic City market, but I'm not sure about anywhere else.
In this game the ploppy bet 10 credits per hand, like Ultimate X, and each dealt hand Jacks or Better and up earns you stackable multipliers for the next 3 deals. If you find a game with multipliers on the top of the screen, simply bet 5 credits per hand and every single hand gets multiplied on the next deal.
Quote: AxelWolfThe question is did you pocket the $275, or did you hit the slots? If not, its looks like a monster AP is born, next thing we know, you will be in Vegas playing 25's.
I am not that bad. I did say a few pages ago that when I walk around I find new slots to play. I generally only stick a 20 in and thats that. In this case I left with the entire $275. Although I really hate this casino and was glad to leave with their money.
Next I walked over to clubhouse where there is another machine. To get into the club house you need at least a gold card so there are less scavengers I think. I pulled up a 10 play $1 deuces wild. There was a 6x and 7x on the screen. For the first time in my life I did a $50 for 1 spin of anything. I was dealt As Ts deuce Qc 5. I have never played this game before so I didn't know what to do. I tried pulling up WoO but I had no internet. After looking at the pay tables I decided to just hold the 2. I ended up with a flush and a few trips. I won $50 on the hand so I broke even. It was quite the rush.
On another 10 play there was a 3x on the 4th game so I elected to just play 4 games at 1 credit. It wouldn't let me up the credits Unless I had all games.
So overall I won $79 and had a free ice cream cone.
When I get home I am going to do some practicing on deuces wild.
Quote: GWAE
So overall I won $79 and had a free ice cream cone.
When I get home I am going to do some practicing on deuces wild.
Stay away from my &*^%%*^&) Ultimate X machines!!!
In all seriousness, nice intuition on the Deuces Wild play, that hold was the correct hold, though A-10-Deuce in that situation is only .003101 bets worse. Straight penalty card is why, replace the Queen with an eight, or something, and A-10-Deuce is the correct play.
Quote: Mission146Stay away from my &*^%%*^&) Ultimate X machines!!!
In all seriousness, nice intuition on the Deuces Wild play, that hold was the correct hold, though A-10-Deuce in that situation is only .003101 bets worse. Straight penalty card is why, replace the Queen with an eight, or something, and A-10-Deuce is the correct play.
hahaha I might just oblige. Although I won $79 my wife spent $260 at the outlet. I wanted to go to the casino so I mentioned the outlet. Next time I will suggest the outlet first so I can fight off the spending better.
Quote: Mission146Stay away from my &*^%%*^&) Ultimate X machines!!!
In all seriousness, nice intuition on the Deuces Wild play, that hold was the correct hold, though A-10-Deuce in that situation is only .003101 bets worse. Straight penalty card is why, replace the Queen with an eight, or something, and A-10-Deuce is the correct play.
Are you assuming that DW UX offers 2 for 1 on the flush? (ala Colorado Deuces) I doubt PA is that generous. I would assume a 20/10/8/4/4/3/2 paytable where AT2 suited would be correct by 0.023 bets. Either way, it's not that significant.
Quote: Mission146I'll have to look next time I am there, but I think you may be right.
Yeah it's weird...the crappiest deuces UX paytable I have seen offers 3 for 1 on the flush... but the next crappiest offers 2 for 1 on the flush. That will make the difference on a hand like this. On deuces, I tend to look at the paytable first before picking them off. I've dealt with both paytables a lot. I also shortplayed 20/12/10/4/4/3/2 today too (better than Colorado Deuces) because I was too much of a wuss to play $25 a hand for a small multiplier on the top hand (5 play dollars)...I gained 1 dollar...dammit.
Quote: tringlomaneYeah it's weird...the crappiest deuces UX paytable I have seen offers 3 for 1 on the flush... but the next crappiest offers 2 for 1 on the flush. That will make the difference on a hand like this. On deuces, I tend to look at the paytable first before picking them off. I've dealt with both paytables a lot. I also shortplayed 20/12/10/4/4/3/2 today too (better than Colorado Deuces) because I was too much of a wuss to play $25 a hand for a small multiplier on the top hand (5 play dollars)...I gained 1 dollar...dammit.
I can not remember what the flush was on this machine. I too was a wuss which is why I short played. However, I took my $80 and put it aside. This is now my UX money. I am not going to make the drive just for these machines but when I am there for my normal trips I am going to check them out. I am going to use this $80 as my starting bankroll for UX that way I won't be a wuss next time I see them. I also left behind a 3x today on a $5 5 play machine. It was on the 5th game so I didn't want to pay a minimum of $25 for it. Now that I have this money sitting aside just for UX I will not leave anymore behind at all.
