How do you make money in horse racing?
I have heard of thatQuote: mickeycrimmHave any of you guys ever the met ones who pick up all the discarded tickets at the track and check them for winners?
I don't know the details and it is different, but years back a few collage kids found a way to cash out un-cashed tickets. They also found a way to change their tickets after the fact somehow. They got messed up when a long shot came in and the ticket was worth millions after they had already hit a 100k ticket prior to that. It was said that had they not got UNlucky and had a huge long shot come in, they would have been able to rape this for a long, long time if they didn't get greedy or dumb. As a matter a fact if the new guy didn't cave under pressure they would have had no clue what was going on, they just knew something didn't seem right.
Years a go a casino while you played VP and slots gave out "Free" parlay cards for a most winners contest. When you turned them into the sports book you got a sports ticket.you had to pick the most football winners for the week to win (something like 15-17 exact picks) For some reason if you took the tickets to the cage and they ran them through their machine (when the sports book was closed) They would all show up as small winners(as long as you had some right) and they would pay you. Only 2 or 3 people knew about this, I didn't take advantage of it . I had been winning the weekly anyways. I don't think the casino ever found out about it.
Something tells me a number of track operators can't figure this out either.
Quote: ThatDonGuy"How do you make money in horse racing?"
Something tells me a number of track operators can't figure this out either.
Sure they have. Get a casino license. Or do like Pimlico did and get the state to give you a piece of the casino's win !
Of course , for some silly reason, the horse and dog tracks that are racinos, now want to discontinue racing.
Quote: coilmantote room cheat caught
http://espn.go.com/horse/news/2002/1120/1463562.html
Dude could have operated under the radar, but no, he had to get greedy.
Quote: coilmantote room cheat caught
http://espn.go.com/horse/news/2002/1120/1463562.html
Breaking news! That was over a decade ago dude!
Quote: AxelWolfI have heard of that
I don't know the details and it is different, but years back a few collage kids found a way to cash out un-cashed tickets. They also found a way to change their tickets after the fact somehow. They got messed up when a long shot came in and the ticket was worth millions after they had already hit a 100k ticket prior to that. It was said that had they not got UNlucky and had a huge long shot come in, they would have been able to rape this for a long, long time if they didn't get greedy or dumb. As a matter a fact if the new guy didn't cave under pressure they would have had no clue what was going on, they just knew something didn't seem right.
FinsRULE ...thats the link to what he is talking about above
all these guys had to do was take down a TRI a day maybe a WIN4 once in a blue moon but no they take down a $3 million payday
GREED
Well they didn't mean to do that. A 40 to 1 horse came in, they were going for much less from what I understand. However they should have just not tried to cash the ticket?Quote: coilmanFinsRULE ...thats the link to what he is talking about above
all these guys had to do was take down a TRI a day maybe a WIN4 once in a blue moon but no they take down a $3 million payday
GREED
Quote: treetopbuddyMake no mistake about it…….I'm the self proclaimed Central Scrutinizer for all horse racing posts.
How can you possibly know what good VALUES are on any horse. Your overlay is somebody else's underlay. Look up the terms. If you believe a horse to be under bet or over bet that's simply your perception of the race based on YOUR handicapping skills/ ideas. The idea of looking for value in a horse is nothing but a bunch of B.S……I hear that bunk all the time. Most players are just parroting the crap the horse touts spit out.
Sorry if my post comes off as a little harsh but your post has an air authority, which you don't have my friend.
Stick to what you know, Bac……..:-)
Hello, TTB. I trust all is well with you.
I must take issue with your post.
What, exactly, are you trying to say? That there is no such thing as "value plays" in horse racing? Are you serious???
Horse race betting is ALL ABOUT VALUE. Nothing more, nothing less.
Ever see a horse go off at 3/5 that you know isn't going to win? Or, at the very least, have a strong opinion against this horse? Yet the general public is betting the living heck out of this horse?
C'mon, man...that's a "value play" to bet against this horse and move onto your selection. In fact, in multi-race wagering that I prefer, I'll usually take 2 or 3 other horses in the race to use in the Pick Three because I'm getting such "over-value" on those horses by eliminating that false over-bet favorite.
I will tell you this about value betting:
The easiest way to "value bet" is to only bet those races where the favorite appears as both "over-bet" and "vulnerable". I key in on those sorts of races, and there are a lot more of them than one might think....favorites lose two-thirds of the time.
Lastly, TTB, it is possible to disagree with my views without labeling it as "bunk". It may be bunk to you because you don't play that way, but that doesn't give you license to belittle the message.
Stay well, my friend.
Quote: gr8playerHello, TTB. I trust all is well with you.
I must take issue with your post.
....
Lastly, TTB, it is possible to disagree with my views without labeling it as "bunk". It may be bunk to you because you don't play that way, but that doesn't give you license to belittle the message.
Gr8,
Just a moderation note for clarity. By the rules of this forum, he does indeed have license to belittle the message. He may not belittle YOU personally, and he may not do it profanely, but he (or anyone else) is able to say what he said. It's your choice to overlook it, be insulted by it, and/or respond in kind.
Quote: coilmanFinsRULE ...thats the link to what he is talking about above
all these guys had to do was take down a TRI a day maybe a WIN4 once in a blue moon but no they take down a $3 million payday
GREED
Coil - Sorry, didn't know you were responding to a different post.
Regarding that incident, Pick-6 was the only bet exploitable that way. They actually got unlucky that their ticket was worth so much.
Quote: beachbumbabsGr8,
Just a moderation note for clarity. By the rules of this forum, he does indeed have license to belittle the message. He may not belittle YOU personally, and he may not do it profanely, but he (or anyone else) is able to say what he said. It's your choice to overlook it, be insulted by it, and/or respond in kind.
Hello, beachbumbabs, I trust all is well with you.
If you feel as if I'd over-reacted to the perceived criticism, I hereby apologize. You have my respect, not because you're a part of the administration, but because you've earned it.
Stay well.
Quote: gr8playerHello, beachbumbabs, I trust all is well with you.
If you feel as if I'd over-reacted to the perceived criticism, I hereby apologize. You have my respect, not because you're a part of the administration, but because you've earned it.
Stay well.
Gr8,
I don't think you've over-reacted. I just wanted you to know that what was said was not actionable by the moderators; your comment indicated that you might think one of us should intercede. We are attempting to moderate with a clear distinction between insulting the person writing and harsh criticism of the ideas they've expressed. "Bunk" falls on the side of criticism, at least for me.
Quote: gr8playerHello, TTB. I trust all is well with you.
I must take issue with your post.
What, exactly, are you trying to say? That there is no such thing as "value plays" in horse racing? Are you serious???
Horse race betting is ALL ABOUT VALUE. Nothing more, nothing less.
Ever see a horse go off at 3/5 that you know isn't going to win? Or, at the very least, have a strong opinion against this horse? Yet the general public is betting the living heck out of this horse?
C'mon, man...that's a "value play" to bet against this horse and move onto your selection. In fact, in multi-race wagering that I prefer, I'll usually take 2 or 3 other horses in the race to use in the Pick Three because I'm getting such "over-value" on those horses by eliminating that false over-bet favorite.
I will tell you this about value betting:
The easiest way to "value bet" is to only bet those races where the favorite appears as both "over-bet" and "vulnerable". I key in on those sorts of races, and there are a lot more of them than one might think....favorites lose two-thirds of the time.
Lastly, TTB, it is possible to disagree with my views without labeling it as "bunk". It may be bunk to you because you don't play that way, but that doesn't give you license to belittle the message.
Stay well, my friend.
As a regular poster, I'm one of the few that hasn't piled on you for your Bac posts…..I've been tempted to, but I keep thinking at some point we are going to be treated to the big reveal. Sadly a year later I'm still waiting.
Why so sensitive to my post which simply pointed out that there no such think as finding value in a certain horse. You need to read my post carefully and really consider what I had to say in regard to value handicapping. Sleep on it and get back with me in the morning. Value handicapping is a bunch of bunk.
Quote: beachbumbabsGr8,
I just wanted you to know that what was said was not actionable by the moderators; your comment indicated that you might think one of us should intercede.
Now, one moment there, BBB....I'm afraid you've lost me here....can you kindly point out exactly where, when or how my "comment indicated that (I) might think one of us should intercede"?
Nothing could be further from the actual truth of it, as I hold no grudge towards TTB in any way, shape, or form. On the contrary, I happen to like TTB and respect his opinions, especially as they pertain to horse racing.
I was, quite simply, and as I clearly stated, simply "taking issue"...in other words, disagreeing. And then I proceeded to civilly state my case.
At no time have I asked for any "administrative action"; this is an internet forum, I am fully capable of handling any issues personally. Thank you, anyway...
Quote: treetopbuddyAs a regular poster, I'm one of the few that hasn't piled on you for your Bac posts…..I've been tempted to, but I keep thinking at some point we are going to be treated to the big reveal. Sadly a year later I'm still waiting.
Why so sensitive to my post which simply pointed out that there no such think as finding value in a certain horse. You need to read my post carefully and really consider what I had to say in regard to value handicapping. Sleep on it and get back with me in the morning. Value handicapping is a bunch of bunk.
It's all good, TTB.
Have a great weekend.
Quote: gr8playerIt's all good, TTB.
Have a great weekend.
Peace
Quote: gr8playerNow, one moment there, BBB....I'm afraid you've lost me here....can you kindly point out exactly where, when or how my "comment indicated that (I) might think one of us should intercede"?
Nothing could be further from the actual truth of it, as I hold no grudge towards TTB in any way, shape, or form. On the contrary, I happen to like TTB and respect his opinions, especially as they pertain to horse racing.
I was, quite simply, and as I clearly stated, simply "taking issue"...in other words, disagreeing. And then I proceeded to civilly state my case.
At no time have I asked for any "administrative action"; this is an internet forum, I am fully capable of handling any issues personally. Thank you, anyway...
Gr8,
It's all good. The part of yours I quoted before was ambiguous to me, whether you were looking for moderator intervention, and I was responding to that. Where you said "I take issue" and "belittling". That's all it was.
its all luck.
Quote: ontariodealerwed race9 at hawthorne....lets try the exotics with the 1,2,3,8.
How in the world did you pick that race? And 70% chance of rain here also.
this race we ended up 1st, 3rd and 5th with the two firsters getting 2nd and 4th.
Quote: Lemieux66Does anyone on here actually make money on this? I see the old guys in the casino constantly playing it, and I never understood how to swing a profit. Your bets constantly get adjusted(for better and for worse) and I've never figured out the method outside of having inside information on how to win.
While playing a poker tournament in January I was sitting next to a racehorse owner. After talking for a little while I found out he had a horse that was racing later that day. To be friendly I said "Tell me your horses name and I'll put $10 on it to root along with you." He refused..."I spent all the money raising it, training it, transporting it, etc. etc. why should you benefit by me telling you which horse to bet on?"
At first I thought that was kind of a douche move since I was really just trying to be nice - I couldn't have cared less if his horse won or not. Then I lost interest in his horse in total (It came in 2nd he later told me).
As we were talking I told him I thought that other than boxing horseracing seems to be about the most fixed sporting event there is. He didn't disagree. I asked him how people could get away with it so much with all the drug tests and (supposed) supervision at the track. I don't think I'm naive but I was blown away by his answer... "It's hard to win, but it's easy to lose. If five or six owners get together and decide who's NOT going to win that clears the field for one horse to have an incredible advantage without any outside influences." Everybody bets the same way and generally wins. Additionally, if you take a flop for a couple races you also develop longer odds for your horse for when it's your turn to win.
Quote: ontariodealerct race 3.......5 over the 1,3,6
it ran 1,6,5,3 pd 460 bucks
This year he is very likely to profitable again, as two weekends ago he hit the Santa Anita early pk5 for $39,000.
He does consider this his second job and takes it very seriously. Only gambles on days he doesn't work, spends countless hours analyzing the racing form each night before he plays, knows virtually every trainer, jockey, breeding history, tips about certain track conditions or special features, and countless other facts.
I guess it is possible to win as I have seen him win over the past two years. 2012 was a small profit between $2000 - $3000, 2013 was around $15,000, and this year should be profitable as well.
I know this isn't conclusive evidence that he his profitable, but I know that he is a Diamond member at Caesars and exclusively plays horse racing. He makes about $50,000 year. So without some horse racing profits, I just don't see how that is really possible.
I get there early. Gates open at 10 and the first race is set for noon. I get a good seat, right on the finish line and at the top of the bleachers so I can see the far side of the track.
Around 11AM they start selling race programs. I get one and see how the various jockeys have been doing over the course of the meet. I look at the Daily Double possibilities, etc.
The beer garden opens up at promptly at noon, and if you're on your game you can usually get a beer and be back in your seat before the first race starts.
There's lots of great fair food to be had, and lots of camaraderie in the stands.
Some years I win a few bucks, most years I lose a few bucks.
A couple of years back, my little brother hit the trifecta on his first ever horse racing wager. $18 bet ($3 box tri) for a $525 return.
I win by having a great time and spending the day with my wife.
If I was trying to make money betting on horses, I'd go to the track and hang out near the paddy before placing last minute wagers after I'd seen the actual horses.
Quote: treetopbuddyProud to say I've been banned at two tracks and four times by the WOV
Which tracks?
Quote: FinsRuleWhich tracks?
Turf Paradise and the now defunct Turfway Park. Dispute over not being allowed to cancel a large win bet with 5 minutes to post at Turf Paradise OTB. They claimed I may have trying to manipulate the win pool at Sunland. Tussle with security at Turfway over horse issue.
Quote: onenickelmiracleHow effective is late betting? Betting on the last horse in the gate? Saw a race on tv the other day, Backdoor Cover kicks the jockey off, wins the race 7-1. This is all I really look for when I bet occasionally. If I see a horse cracked out half a track away from the gate, I'm not betting on it for sure. Energy in minutes prior seems good enough to me when I play every blue moon.
What if you were betting baseball and could ask all the players individually how they felt today and if they might be a little off and woke up on the wrong side of the bed or whether they feel absolutely great, better than they have felt in weeks. Ridiculous you might say, you could never get an honest reply from any of the players. And I would agree.
But horses can't lie. They're very honest and make horrible poker players. You just have to learn how to speak Horse.
Quote: onenickelmiracleGlossiness is very hard for me to see. Sometimes I see one, sometimes I see them all glossy, and maybe they are. Wetness I'm kind of confused by at this moment.
That confuses me too. One kind of negative wetness that is easy to spot is kidney sweat. Look for a white kinda foam in the groin area. A touch of it when they are loading isn't too bad, but if you spot it early it's a pretty good negative. In the post parade, even in the walking circle, that's not good. Of course, if it's running down the leg and just everywhere it's very negative. It's pretty easy to spot on a television monitor or the computer also.
Joe Takach has a couple excellent tapes and several books. There are others, but he is the king.
He splits the observation into two important factors, and rates each horse 1 to 4 in each category. There's the physicality of the horse, and then there's the warm-up. Joe will only bet a horse where the two factors add up to less than 5. So for example a 1-1 is a fantastic looking horse with a stellar warm-up. Those don't come along often. A 2-3 would be a good looking horse with a so-so warm-up, and a non-bet.
Physicality handicapping compliments your regular methodology. It changed my game more than anything else. Well worth looking into.
