Gandler
Gandler
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 1797
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
February 5th, 2014 at 12:29:46 PM permalink
I have recently finished Casino Royale (Fleming, 1953), I have been a fan of the Bond books and movies for a long time and have read all the Fleming books long ago except for Casino Royale, for some reason when I was younger I just could not get into it maybe all the gambling stuff went over my head.

but basically the plot of the book involves Bond trying to bankrupt a Russian spy during a high stakes baccarat match. This is what I don't understand. In the newer (2006) movie the game is Texas Holdem (which seems more plausible). I am assuming LeCheffre is acting as the banker or whatever the term would be, but then how would it even be a plausible feat to beat him? If anything brining millions of dollars to his table seems more likley to break him and fund the spy? Does not seem like something any government would even consider? Even poker is a stretch but that would be a more believable attempt?

I don't know if anyone on here has read this (seems like a book that would interest at least some people here), but if anyone has, anyone care to explain exactly what is going on during the baccarat scenes?
Nareed
Nareed
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
February 5th, 2014 at 12:37:55 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

I don't know if anyone on here has read this (seems like a book that would interest at least some people here), but if anyone has, anyone care to explain exactly what is going on during the baccarat scenes?



I think it's the certainty that most people reading the book wouldn't know Baccarat from Soup du jour.

Much the same device, bankrupting a bad guy, was used in mission: Impossible back in the 60s. That episode included Baccarat and Roulette, and the good guys were cheating. In a DS9 episode, Dr. Bashir playing secret agent in the holodeck has to in a huge amount at Baccarat. I laughed when the dealer compliments him on being "an excellent Baccarat player."

BTW though Iv'e read some Flmeing Bond books, I never got around to that one.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Buzzard
Buzzard
  • Threads: 90
  • Posts: 6814
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
February 5th, 2014 at 1:16:51 PM permalink
Most people only know James Bond from the movies. In Goldfinger the villain plays Gin of all things. Baccarat had sex appeal in movies. And of course the latest James Bond has to play Hold'em poker.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Gandler
Gandler
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 1797
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
February 5th, 2014 at 2:23:05 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

Most people only know James Bond from the movies. In Goldfinger the villain plays Gin of all things. Baccarat had sex appeal in movies. And of course the latest James Bond has to play Hold'em poker.


In Goldfinger he was cheating. And in the book I think it was canista. But that is how he determined something was wrong in the book is that Goldfinger was winning far more than he statistically should.
In Casino Royale movie the villian thought he could "invest" his governments (or in the case of the movie) his clients money in a poker game to multiply it. Which in the movie actually makes more sense with Texas Holdem vs Baccarat in the book.
Buzzard
Buzzard
  • Threads: 90
  • Posts: 6814
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
February 5th, 2014 at 2:29:27 PM permalink
And of course in typical Hollywood style, the poker game is ridiculous to anyone who has played Hold'em.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Gandler
Gandler
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 1797
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
February 5th, 2014 at 2:35:14 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

And of course in typical Hollywood style, the poker game is ridiculous to anyone who has played Hold'em.


True (but of course they had to make it more dramatic or else the long poker scenes would be very boring to the average viewer). But the concept is far less ridiculous than baccarat.
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
  • Threads: 53
  • Posts: 2155
Joined: Aug 1, 2011
February 5th, 2014 at 2:36:48 PM permalink
I think they were playing Chemin de fer in which you play against the other players.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
Gandler
Gandler
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 1797
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
February 5th, 2014 at 2:56:02 PM permalink
Quote: Hunterhill

I think they were playing Chemin de fer in which you play against the other players.


I think you are right.
Is that the version where one player acts as the banker. And the players bet against him until he loses and then somebody else takes over?
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
February 5th, 2014 at 3:16:11 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
February 5th, 2014 at 3:22:14 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I've been involved in hands just as ridiculous and worse.



Anyone who ever says "no one would play that bad" has obviously never gambled with other people.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
February 5th, 2014 at 3:24:52 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
kubikulann
kubikulann
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 905
Joined: Jun 28, 2011
February 6th, 2014 at 2:47:48 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

I think you are right.
Is that the version where one player acts as the banker. And the players bet against him until he loses and then somebody else takes over?

Actually, the players don't show their hand and, contrary to Mini baccarat of today, there is no predetermined play: player and banker do what they want. The good ones play the optimal strategy", others play from hunches.
This explains why, in a movie, Bond says he doesn't play the odds. Stupid for us, but hey! this is James Bond: he somehow *knows* what cards will come next...

The book Casino Royale was very boring. But then many JB books are totally outdated compared to present-day thrillers: slow, irrealistic, ...
Reperiet qui quaesiverit
Gandler
Gandler
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 1797
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
February 6th, 2014 at 2:50:11 PM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

Actually, the players don't show their hand and, contrary to Mini baccarat of today, there is no predetermined play: player and banker do what they want. The good ones play the optimal strategy", others play from hunches.
This explains why, in a movie, Bond says he doesn't play the odds. Stupid for us, but hey! this is James Bond: he somehow *knows* what cards will come next...

The book Casino Royale was very boring. But then many JB books are totally outdated compared to present-day thrillers: slow, irrealistic, ...


I actually enjoyed it. Outdated yes, but I still like Ian Flemings writing style, very easy and entertaining to read.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1496
  • Posts: 26619
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
December 29th, 2023 at 11:43:44 AM permalink
Sorry to waken a sleeping thread (I'm really not sorry), but I didn't think the following question was worthy of a new thread.

I've heard about the James Bond betting strategy. It calls for betting on every spin as follows:

  • 14 units on 19 to 36
  • 5 units on the double-street covering 13 to 18
  • 1 unit on zero


The following table shows my analysis. The lower right shows the player can expect to lost 0.540541 units per spin. Divided by 20 units bet, that is a house edge of 2.70%, as expected.

Event Numbers Covered Net win Probability Return
0 1 16 0.027027 0.432432
1 to 12 12 -20 0.324324 -6.486486
13 to 18 6 10 0.162162 1.621622
19 to 36 18 8 0.486486 3.891892
Total 37 1.000000 -0.540541


My question is in which movie or book does Bond play roulette, much less use this strategy? I consider myself to be familiar with all the Brocolli films (I don't consider the others legitimate Bond movies) and can't recall Bond every playing roulette. Just baccarat/chemin-de-fer, craps, poker, and blackjack. I'm not sure if you count sic bo, as I don't think Bond actually made a legitimate bet in that scene from The Man with the Golden Gun.

Thank you.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Gialmere
Gialmere
  • Threads: 45
  • Posts: 2969
Joined: Nov 26, 2018
Thanked by
Wizard
December 29th, 2023 at 12:38:34 PM permalink
In the book "Diamond Are Forever" Bond plays roulette in Vegas but does not use the 007 system.

I think the name for this wager comes from betting on a DOUBLE Street, the zerOH, and the other SEVENty percent of your units on the high numbers.

P.S. Bond does make a quick sic bo wager in "Skyfall."
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
TigerWu
TigerWu
  • Threads: 26
  • Posts: 5634
Joined: May 23, 2016
December 30th, 2023 at 8:59:21 AM permalink
James Bond never uses that strategy in any book or movie. It didn't originate with him or with Ian Fleming. It's just named after him for some reason, but people continue to propagate the idea that he actually used it.

The "real" James Bond strategy, according to Ian Fleming himself, is a Labouchere progression on the even chances. It's described in Fleming's book "Thrilling Cities."
Gandler
Gandler
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 1797
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
December 30th, 2023 at 11:23:09 AM permalink
The answer is not Casino Royale -I am pretty sure- (though he does reference playing roulette in that one and makes a couple recommendations from only playing even bets to progression systems.)

The system is mentioned in a random book (random in the sense it is not one you would associate with gambling.) The line is something to the effect if you do just one bet like this you are virtually guaranteed to have dinner paid for with almost no chance of losing.

I kind of feel like it may be Moonraker. But, this is just a hunch. And, I am traveling right now so I do not have access to my books -Casino Royale is the only one I have on Kindle. (and it is hard to find these details on the internet shockingly, there are just not many detailed breakdowns of the original Bond books out there.) If this is a trivia question, I would guess Moonraker from my head. If you are looking for a definitive answer, I can't provide that at the moment.
MDawg
MDawg
  • Threads: 40
  • Posts: 7532
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
December 30th, 2023 at 12:13:45 PM permalink
The over all James Bond casino wagering theme is that he generally loses 1 or 2 bets and then cleans up. A sort of Martingale.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
darkoz
darkoz
  • Threads: 297
  • Posts: 11553
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
December 30th, 2023 at 4:34:30 PM permalink
To be fair about James Bonds gambling prowess that's mostly the movies.

In Casino Royale he actually loses his entire bankroll and is only saved by being fronted money by CIA agent Felix Leiter
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
unJon
unJon
  • Threads: 14
  • Posts: 4655
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
December 30th, 2023 at 5:11:04 PM permalink
I agree with the other responses in this thread. Bond in the Fleming books never played this roulette system. He does play roulette in Diamonds are forever but he bets jut the color even money bets. He wins of course.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
  • Jump to: