BOVADA Slashes Joker Poker

Bovada changed their Joker Poker from good to BAD.
They had a kings or better Joker Poker version that they shorted the 5 of a kind to 750 with max bet, should be 1000, and they shorted the wild RF to 400 max bet should be 500 but left it 7/5. it was similar to the 100.65 version but, obviously that would be to strong, so i assumed that's why they cut the wild RF and five of a kind which dropped it to around 100.05 plus cash back. Not bad

BUT NOW THEY MADE IT 6 instead of 7 on the full house OUCH! big difference especially on joker poker it cuts it down to approximately 98.4 even with bonuses its not worth playing. they could of at least but the 5 of a kind and wild RF back to 1000 and 500

This was the best thing about BOVADA cutting the pay table will defiantly hurt its affiliates and referrals

looks like they cut the Aces and eights VP Pay back as well.

I'm Very surprised no one seems to care about this. Bovada supports THIS SITE and your friend the Wizzard... slashing pay schedules means less and less new players and old players LEAVING and finding new places to put there money. That's 2 Video Poker games in just a few days, whats next? they might cut the 9/6 Jacks or better to 8/5. Perhaps they may start cutting back on the blackjack rules.

I have seen quite a few people post up about playing Bovada per the Wizards suggestion using the VP calculator and blackjack information.

Even if you don't play Bovada, support this site by sending a complaint to Bovada. BRING BACK THE OLD JOKER PAY TABLE.

Not to be rude but we have hundreds of pages dealing with crap..py systems that DON'T WORK, yet now we have something that actually works mathematically, something the wizard supports and no one seems to care?

Quote: AxelWolf

I'm Very surprised no one seems to care about this. Bovada supports THIS SITE and your friend the Wizzard... slashing pay schedules means less and less new players and old players LEAVING and finding new places to put there money. That's 2 Video Poker games in just a few days, whats next? they might cut the 9/6 Jacks or better to 8/5. Perhaps they may start cutting back on the blackjack rules.

I have seen quite a few people post up about playing Bovada per the Wizards suggestion using the VP calculator and blackjack information.

Even if you don't play Bovada, support this site by sending a complaint to Bovada. BRING BACK THE OLD JOKER PAY TABLE.

Not to be rude but we have hundreds of pages dealing with crap..py systems that DON'T WORK, yet now we have something that actually works mathematically, something the wizard supports and no one seems to care?

This falls in the this is important so most people here that want to discuss their new martingale strategy won't care category.

I mean, I just posted a thread about how everyone is playing ultimate x incorrectly and nobody responded to that either.

Personally I think that an online casino can make significant money with a 100.05% game with play mistakes. However, knowing casino management, the first big sequential royal would kill the game.

My time on Bovada was very short and I did come out ahead but plans changed and I could either continue to play it or save up to move to Vegas and get all the extras that come with that.

I'll make it a point today to send them a message expressing my disapproval with the changes. Although being a 1 month old account with no new money deposited I don't know how much weight I will carry but worth a shot.

Maybe with sports betting moving into the peak season, they figure they can stiff more of the casino players and not feel as much of a backlash. We'll see.

Quote: randomperson

This falls in the this is important so most people here that want to discuss their new martingale strategy won't care category.

I mean, I just posted a thread about how everyone is playing ultimate x incorrectly and nobody responded to that either.

Personally I think that an online casino can make significant money with a 100.05% game with play mistakes. However, knowing casino management, the first big sequential royal would kill the game.

Not often... but I have seen casinos take out good machines or slash pay tables, only to realize it was a mistake and promptly put them back. If enough people rally up some support to bring them back to there former glory It helps this site and gamblers in general.

With the possibility of online gambling being legalized and regulated It would be nice to have a casino standard set on Pay back percentages. As it is now, I believe most online casinos offer 99.54 on VP and good rules on blackjack. If there is no fall out for Bovada cutting down VP pays other casinos will follow suit, next thing you know everything will be 5% losers across the board.

I would encourage those unhappy about joker poker pay table being degraded to write to Bovada support about it.

So just got off the phone with the Casino dept at Bovada. They did confirm that they changed the odds on several of their games(they wouldn't tell me exactly which ones) and they had a ready-made speech about per the terms of the agreement they have the right to change the odds and payouts of their games at anytime without prior warning. They also said "all online casinos are doing this". Since I wasn't going to use it and had 8 cents left on the account, I just asked them to close it and said I wouldn't be spending a penny there until they got their act together and changed their mind and to forward all that to the casino managers.

Probably won't accomplish much but I made a show of it at least. By the way when I called the casino line, it was busy and it sent me to the poker dept. I was put on hold for 5 mins to get transferred back into the casino dept. Maybe a lot of upset people are flooding the lines right now. I don't know.

Let's see how it plays out.

Good for you. +1
Not sure why after years of offering this they feel the need to discontinue it. Perhaps not offering $5 denomination may be a better way to go for them.

I know quite a few people that will no longer be playing BV. and not just AP's, people who have all the right intentions of playing with good odds but end up wavering and take shots on slots and new games.

I was in the middle of a Hand when they changed the pay table LOL. It didn't happen as i was playing but I had been disconnected a few days ago before I was able to draw the hand.

It looks like this move is going to cost Bovada a lot of action. The best thing you can do is complain to them. The squeaking wheel gets the grease. If enough players complain they might get an idea of how much action they are going to lose.

We have disabled your Bovada account as per your request. If you would like us to re-open your Bovada account in the future, please contact our Customer Service center at 1-888-263-0000, ext.2, or contact us via email at service@bovada.lv.

Regards,

Bovada Customer Service
service@bovada.lv

Just got this, maybe a few hundred more might open their eyes a bit.

I've got to say, all this strikes me as hopelessly entitled. I liked the old Joker Poker, and I'm going to miss it (and no, I'm not planning to play the new one), but while maybe the revenue from the new edge won't match the revenue previously earned from mistakes, I see no reason they'd want to reintroduce a +EV game based on people complaining they can no longer be liabilities and threatening to take their worthless business elsewhere. If it were in fact the loss of the 9/6 JoB, or tightening of the blackjack, that would be one thing, but I don't understand the mindset that they're under any obligation to offer such a "good gamble" they lose money, or that they should be afraid of losing customers only willing to play in that circumstance.

too!!

Quote: 24Bingo

I've got to say, all this strikes me as hopelessly entitled. I liked the old Joker Poker, and I'm going to miss it (and no, I'm not planning to play the new one), but while maybe the revenue from the new edge won't match the revenue previously earned from mistakes, I see no reason they'd want to reintroduce a +EV game based on people complaining they can no longer be liabilities and threatening to take their worthless business elsewhere. If it were in fact the loss of the 9/6 JoB, or tightening of the blackjack, that would be one thing, but I don't understand the mindset that they're under any obligation to offer such a "good gamble" they lose money, or that they should be afraid of losing customers only willing to play in that circumstance.

I get what your saying, however I disagree. The Jokers are a loss leader. Its a slippery slope. That was not the only game they cut, they cut the Aces and Eights down as well they have cut pays tables in the past. I think that was one of my first posts.

Just being able to say we have over 100% VP is worth a lot, especially for affiliates like the wizard who are all for having over 100% machines.

Even smart players with good intentions (they have a plan) end up getting board and start playing games like Baccarat (you know who you are) and other games like slots, because they want to take a shot at some new promotion that looks fun.

I have referred many people to Bovada, all of them are net losers. I will not refer anyone again unless I secretly dislike them.

I have a feeling this is going to cut way down on new and old players from this site.

From a business perspective, all that might be true, but it's not why you want it back, nor anyone in this thread, and the person in charge of thinking that way has clearly come to the conclusion that it isn't worth it. What struck me was the implication that this was somehow a betrayal, or asking why more people weren't talking about it - I could only think, unlike the utter bewilderment systems bettors often engender, those of us who had been playing and haven't yet posted had understood their reasons for doing so, and were ready to move on. If they come to the conclusion that it was a loss leader, maybe they'll bring it back, but the last thing that will convince them of that is a series of letters from people hoping to beat it.

I don't think I'd ever refer someone to an online casino for the casino if I wanted them to win, because the house always wins, and when you're betting against the house, you're going to lose.

(PS - I can't get the client working - funny problem that seems to be unique to me - how good was Aces & Eights, and how much has it been slashed? The Wizard's best pay table was 99.78%... I'm guessing from there to the 98.63%, the same trick with the boats? Or did they have a better one? And has the Wizard's big selling point, Pick 'Em, been slashed?)

(PPS - Yes, if the Aces or Better is as I speculated above, that would go under "it would be one thing..." but right now, I think I might rather call it "collateral damage.")

I didn't look at all the games, but All American remains at 99.6% (paying 175 for quads). Strategy is very difficult, but of course you can consult an analyzer while you play. I'm sure most folks don't bother, so they probably make a nice profit on the game.

Back in 2004, there was an RTG casino called Grand Aces that offered full-pay on everything. I don't remember the specifics, but it was a limited-time promo of some sort. Here's what was available, according to my notes:

Bonus Poker - 8/5 (99.17%)
Bonus Deluxe - 8/6 (98.49%)
Double Bonus - 10/7 (100.17%)
Double Double Bonus - 9/6 (98.98%)

Aces & Eights - 8/5 (99.8%)
Pick Em - standard full-pay (99.95%)

Double Double Jackpot - 9/6/5 (100.35%)
Double Jackpot - 8/5 (99.6%)

Bonus Deuces - standard (99.45%)
Loose Deuces - 15/10 (100.97%)
Sevens Wild - 15/10/5 (99.1%)
Deuces - full-pay (100.76%)

Joker - 20/7 with 50000 seq (better than 100.65%)
All American - full-pay (100.72%)

It's odd that the Boner Deluxe was only 8/6, but I assume that was a limitation within the software.

The Grand Aces casino now redirects to King Solomons.

Regarding the question about Pick 'Em, it hasn't been slashed at Bovada, but they did trim it, I assume. I calculate 99.45%, due to a reduction in the payoff for straights (versus the full-pay schedule).

Quote: gpac1377

It's odd that the Boner Deluxe was only 8/6, but I assume that was a limitation within the software.
.

Boner Poke Her. At the Beavis and Butthead casino.

I just checked all the Bovada pay tables. Here is an updated list of the returns, from highest to lowest.

Game	Pay Table	Return
Double Jackpot Poker	20-8-5-4-3	99.63%
All American	35-8	99.60%
Jacks or Better	9-6	99.54%
Bonus Deuces	20-9-4-4-3	99.45%
Double Bonus	45-10-7-5	99.37%
Double Double Jackpot Poker	9-6-5-3	99.33%
Bonus Poker	8-5	99.17%
Sevens Wild	25-15-10-5	99.11%
Loose Deuces	25-15-5	99.07%
Double Double Bonus	9-6	98.98%
Deuces Wild	25-15-9-4-4	98.91%
Aces & Eights	25-7-5	98.63%
Joker Poker (kings)	250-150-80-50-20-6	98.54%
Bonus Poker Deluxe	8-6	98.49%

On one hand it sucks the paytables have gone down on Jokers, but most casinos offer 9/6 JoB as their highest returning game so I guess we can't complain too much.

Quote: Wizard

I just checked all the Bovada pay tables. Here is an updated list of the returns, from highest to lowest.

I hope you took the time to edit "including my favorite, 99.95% Pick 'em." That apparently got downgraded too.

Quote: Wizard

I just checked all the Bovada pay tables.

Sorry to complicate the situation, but back in the day, it was somewhat common for RTG casinos to offer full-pay only on the single-hand games, and Bovada is at least partially continuing the tradition. For example, Jacks or Better drops to an 8/5 schedule for multiple hands, and Double Jackpot quads are reduced for multiple hands.

All American is the same (99.6%) for any number of hands.

I suppose it's also possible to vary pay schedules by denomination :(