Does a 'random' promo prize have to be random?

Promo for June: Pick a prize (weekly)

goto a bank of rewards card kiosks. slide your rewards card. pick one of 5 cards that appears on the screen.
Prizes: $25, 50,75,100, or 500 in free slotplay

i got $25. (after you select the card, the other 4 cards turn over thus how i knew the values of the other 4 cards.)
i noticed that the persons to my left and right also got $25.

after i played a little bit, i went back to the kiosk to see how many points i got for the day.
i noticed that the person to my left and right were playing the promo and both got $25.

yes, sample size is small. (5 players got the minimum $25 prize.)

note:
nowhere in the promo does it say random prize. it just says you can win $25 - $500.

so does having u select from 5 cards = random?

or just seem random and is actually a marketing trick/ploy?
aka the prize was already pre-determined so that no matter what u picked, u got that prize?

I think for things like this, what you suspect is happening, probably is.

yeah, it's definitely non-random. It's no secret how often I attend casinos, or how many I visit, and last week, for the first time in my life, I won an other-than-worst prize on one of these promotions.

Quote: rdw4potus

yeah, it's definitely non-random. It's no secret how often I attend casinos, or how many I visit, and last week, for the first time in my life, I won an other-than-worst prize on one of these promotions.

My guess is that it is random but heavily weighted to a particular prize based on some other variable. It wouldn't surprise me if 90% of the players in your "category" get the $25 prize while 10% may get one of the bigger prizes with a bias to the lower amounts. That is how I would have implemented it.

Quote: DRich

My guess is that it is random but heavily weighted to a particular prize based on some other variable. It wouldn't surprise me if 90% of the players in your "category" get the $25 prize while 10% may get one of the bigger prizes with a bias to the lower amounts. That is how I would have implemented it.

Fair point. The frustrating part is the "reveal" at the end, which shows that the unselected icons all had higher prizes behind them.

Quote: rdw4potus

Fair point. The frustrating part is the "reveal" at the end, which shows that the unselected icons all had higher prizes behind them.

In Nevada on slot machines if a player is picking one prize out of multiple prizes the amount may be predetermined and the selection may have no bearing on the outcome. The caveat to that is that the other prize amounts not selected may not be revealed to the customer. On any game where all of the choices are displayed after selection, the prize amounts awarded must be determined by the position of the symbol selected.

Quote: rdw4potus

The frustrating part is the "reveal" at the end, which shows that the unselected icons all had higher prizes behind them.

Considering that you got the lowest price, it makes sense that a reveal would only show higher prizes behind the other icons. A fairer test of that would be seeing someone win a larger prize, and seeing a lower prize behind one of the unrevealed icons.

It's possible that the prize you win is randomly determined prior to you selecting an icon. The computer system may be set up that 90% win $25, and the other 10% in various gradations. Once the computer has determined what you won, no matter which icon you selected, it will reveal the amount previously randomly determined.

It's rigged. The same thing happens with the BOYD LV pick-a-cow/sheep/fish/what-have-you promotion that they do on their kiosks every so often.

Quote: DRich

In Nevada on slot machines if a player is picking one prize out of multiple prizes the amount may be predetermined and the selection may have no bearing on the outcome. The caveat to that is that the other prize amounts not selected may not be revealed to the customer. On any game where all of the choices are displayed after selection, the prize amounts awarded must be determined by the position of the symbol selected.

I would imagine that this is the law which applies to slot machines being played as ordinary slot machines.
Query as to some sort of a Free Spin at a Kiosk. Would the same law apply? Doesn't the player understand a Kiosk is not a Slot Machine? What about a slot that when you swipe your card and select to view your Player Account? Once that happens its no longer a slot machine its a "temporary informational kiosk" and any such "spin" might be subject to other rules.

We all know the Free Spin on the Physical Wheel for new account signups is heavily weighted to the lower end of the prize scale. I think we expect the same from the electronic "Wheel" as well.

Quote: FleaStiff

We all know the Free Spin on the Physical Wheel for new account signups is heavily weighted to the lower end of the prize scale. I think we expect the same from the electronic "Wheel" as well.

Speaking of wheels... there are some people who complain about the "Wheel of Fortune" slots that offer a wheel spin bonus. The Nevada gaming regulation (I don't recall the number) in question says that the simulated version of something (cards, dice, etc.) must offer the same probabilities as the real version. The complaint is that the Wheel of Fortune wheels are clearly weighted and do NOT behave like an actual wheel, which would land on any slot with equal probability. So the regulation is selective: weighted wheels are okay, unless they are roulette wheels, in which case weighting is not okay.

Quote: FleaStiff

I would imagine that this is the law which applies to slot machines being played as ordinary slot machines.
Query as to some sort of a Free Spin at a Kiosk. Would the same law apply? Doesn't the player understand a Kiosk is not a Slot Machine? What about a slot that when you swipe your card and select to view your Player Account? Once that happens its no longer a slot machine its a "temporary informational kiosk" and any such "spin" might be subject to other rules.

We all know the Free Spin on the Physical Wheel for new account signups is heavily weighted to the lower end of the prize scale. I think we expect the same from the electronic "Wheel" as well.

Associated equipment is not held to the same standard as gaming devices.

Quote: JB

So the regulation is selective: weighted wheels are okay, unless they are roulette wheels, in which case weighting is not okay.

I guess the regulation should protect the public's expectation and the public will expect strange things sometimes.

Random in this context just means "unpredictable," not that each outcome is equally likely. If you paint an extra spot on the middle of the 4 face of a standard die, you now have a die with a distribution of 1, 2, 3, 5, 5, 6. Rolling that die is still a random process even though 5 is twice as likely as the other numbers.

And weighting of rotating objects has been the norm since the 1980s and the introduction of stepper motors and RNG control in slot reels. Both slot reels and top box wheels are driven by stepper motors and controlled by a CPU; the difference is the axis of rotation (X for slot reels, Z for bonus wheels).

Of course, there are two well-known examples of rotating-wheel games, and they act differently. Roulette has 38 stops and 38 different outcomes. The Big Six wheel (the currency version, not the dice version) has 54 stops and only 7 different outcomes, and those 7 outcomes are weighted very differently (24 instances of $1, 2 instances of $20, etc.) Both of those long predate the introduction of stepper slots, so there was already precedent for both uniform and non-uniform physical wheels. In fact, the math for virtually all multi-line slot games uses reel strips that are equivalent to the Big Six structure: a large number stops, a much smaller number of symbols, and a non-uniform distribution of those symbols across those stops.

Often, if not normally, these random awards are already determined before you even go to the casino. I know some people who have told me their mystery FP awards were already loaded on their cards or told to them at the desk, before even participating at the kiosks. I like when casinos have mystery awards cards are able to be revealed in a dark room with a flash light. Then they seem fair to me.

As others have said these are often weighted.

Prizes range from $25-$500. The casino wants to give away $50 per patron on average.

One solution: Deck of 100 cards. Machine randomly selects 5 for you to choose from.

Number of cards available to be chosen:

$25 - 80
$50 - 8
$100 - 4
$200 - 4
$300 - 3
$500 - 1

Quote: JB

Speaking of wheels... there are some people who complain about the "Wheel of Fortune" slots that offer a wheel spin bonus. The Nevada gaming regulation (I don't recall the number) in question says that the simulated version of something (cards, dice, etc.) must offer the same probabilities as the real version. The complaint is that the Wheel of Fortune wheels are clearly weighted and do NOT behave like an actual wheel, which would land on any slot with equal probability. So the regulation is selective: weighted wheels are okay, unless they are roulette wheels, in which case weighting is not okay.

Total BS if you ask me. And what sucks is that most states have followed Nevada's lead, so this is legal in every state I am aware of.