Revel re-thinking non-smoking policy
Quote: sodawaterThe non-smoking policy is the least of their problems.
In fact, the only reason I have been going there despite not being offered rooms is the fact that it's smoke free.
As the article says, 85 percent of the market doesn't smoke.
Right now it's Revel's only real advantage.
Agreed - if it becomes a smoking casino, I will head back to the CZR properties where I can get more for my points.
allow smoking by the end of the year, and I did it before
they even opened. I was told I was full of it, that people
would LOVE LOVE LOVE a non smoking casino. Yeah, right.
Quote: sodawater
As the economy recovers and Revel gets its shit together in the gaming segment of its business, I expect it will do better. But it's got nothing to do with smoking.
Do you think Revel will make it that long under the current ownership/management structure? I think they'll go bankrupt long before the economy recovers enough for gaming revenues to pick up.
Quote: sodawaterThe non-smoking policy is the least of their problems.
In fact, the only reason I have been going there despite not being offered rooms is the fact that it's smoke free.
As the article says, 85 percent of the market doesn't smoke.
Right now it's Revel's only real advantage.
The article doesn't say that 85% of the market doesn't smoke. The anti-smoking people say that. Actually, they don't even say that; they say "If 85% of the market doesn't smoke...". It's also unclear what they mean by "the market" here. All adults? Or Gamblers? Since gambling is more acceptable in some cultures than others (eg, Asian) and smoking is also more prevalent in some cultures than others (again, Asian) it is possible (probable, even) that "percentage of casino patrons who smoke" is much larger than "percentage of the general population who smoke".
This should be easy enough to figure out, though. The article says that AC casinos can only have smoking allowed on 25% of their casino floor. Is that 25% generally more crowded than the rest of the casino? Less crowded? The same?
As for my own personal bias, I only smoke cigars (< 1 / week), and I smoke a lot of them while at casinos.
Quote: sodawaterThis is not the least bit enforced and is a total joke. There are tiny signs saying where you can smoke and where you can't and all of that is completely ignored. Likewise, non-smoking signs from individual tables are ignored or moved on customer request.
So there's really no good way to answer your question, but if I had to guess I would say it's equally crowded.
Agreed - in all casinos (but Revel) - I see people walking through non-smoking areas with cigarettes, seeing a machine they want to play, sitting down and making it a smoking section
Even considering allowing smoking is just one more way the place is being grossly mismanaged by desperate managers who want to try anything but facing the music.
Revel is not a world class destination resort,,, it is an "also ran" in the aging market of Atlantic City.
Revel lures pretty much the same gamblers the rest of Atlantic City lures... other than the smoking issue.
Revel came into the new market heavy handed and ignored existing loyalty cards and existing room comp programs. Revel paid for that arrogance.
The Palace in Biloxi is a totally non smoking hotel and casino and seems successful at it because they try first and foremost to be a good hotel and casino.
Quote: BuzzardYou got to half seriously wonder why they just don't let real gangsters back in and run things?
I don't have any doubt the gangsters would find a way to turn a profit. What's a few broken legs among friends.
Also, from what people say about the Revel, I suspect that this is, in fact, the least of their problems. It sounds like the decided to treat their customers like crap and then where surprised when they went elsewhere with their gambling dollars. Having said that, I've never been to AC, and never plan on going, so I'm basing this on 2nd-hand information.
Quote: sodawaterWho is there, really, to complain to? No one on the casino floor is really in a position to do anything about it. And most people aren't going to take the time to write a letter to the executives when they get home.
Well, if you are at a table, you could say to the dealer / pit boss / other player "hey, there's no smoking here".
Quote:I suspect that most people don't smoke and DO care if others do -- in that they would prefer they would not -- but it doesn't rise to the level of not gambling if others do. I will say if Revel had its act together with comps and loyalty AND expanded poker AND offered PG tiles I really would not go anywhere else in AC. It's so nice to not smell that smoke.
I dunno. Personally, I don't care. I find that most casinos are well-enough-ventilated that it doesn't really matter
Quote:FYI, there was a little campaign organized by the Borgata poker players to get Stan the room manager to enforce the non-smoking policy in the poker-room bathrooms. So there's at least one example of a complaint.
Ewwww, poker room bathrooms. The smoke is probably the least toxic thing in there. When I'm playing poker in a casino, I never use the bathroom closest to the poker room -- I walk a bit.
Quote: sodawater
I suspect that most people don't smoke and DO care if others do -- in that they would prefer they would not -- but it doesn't rise to the level of not gambling if others do. I will say if Revel had its act together with comps and loyalty AND expanded poker AND offered PG tiles I really would not go anywhere else in AC. It's so nice to not smell that smoke.
I concur with SodaWater.
I will say that as a smoker and a vegetarian, if there is a restaurant that does not serve dead animals in anyway whatsoever, then I am only going to prefer that restaurant if I consider it otherwise exactly equal to the other restaurants available to me. I would respect a 100% vegetarian restaurant to that extent. However, if I think some other restaurant is better than that one, (notwithstanding the fact that there probably isn't a restaurant that doesn't serve meat at all with 100's of miles of me) I'm going to go there regardless of whether or not they serve meat.
It's a factor in a consumer's decision, and as with any other factor in a consumer's decision (especially when there are many factors, and the most important is always how you are treated...as it colors your perception of everything else...for nearly 100% of people) having just one thing that a certain crowd likes, regardless of the size of the crowd, will not make you succeed.
I wish I had the funds to objectively study this...and the time...and the participants, but I can almost guarantee that I could make a place as close as it gets to, "Objectively smoky," and then set it up so some customers have an otherwise good experience and some have a bad one...first I would question the customers about whether or not they are non-smokers, then about their experience with service, then on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the highest, how smoky they thought the place was. I can all-but-guarantee the customers who otherwise had a good service experience, by mean score, will find it less smoky than those who did not.
Quote: EvenBobI wasn't off by much. I predicted they would start to
allow smoking by the end of the year, and I did it before
they even opened. I was told I was full of it, that people
would LOVE LOVE LOVE a non smoking casino. Yeah, right.
Yo, Nostradamus; (non-President) Mitt Romney is on the phone and would like to have a word with you about your amazing predictive capabilities. Like many a reader here, he reckons you're full of it.
Quote: stevenzYo, Nostradamus; (non-President) Mitt Romney is on the phone and would like to have a word with you about your amazing predictive capabilities. Like many a reader here, he reckons you're full of it.
AWWWW Snap! Let's see how long this one stays at the 2013 post-of-the-year:-)
Quote: Mission146I will say that as a smoker and a vegetarian, if there is a restaurant that does not serve dead animals in anyway whatsoever, then I am only going to prefer that restaurant if I consider it otherwise exactly equal to the other restaurants available to me.
I don't know about that. Restaurants that serve live animals are few and far between :P
But instead of trying to compete for these players, they offer less comps and give the excuse that "Your play doesnt met our expected level" for even free room comps that other casino give freely. It has become a standoff where the player feels insulted by Revel and stays at their current casino and Revel sits empty exxept for the few non gamblers who are willing to pay top dollar for their rooms and go to their club to party while the tables and slots sit empty.
The only question is how fast do they burn through the next $150 Million and who ends up owning and running this potential gem.
As for the smoking issue, I still wish we would have had a good operator from the start to see if a Non Smoking Casino could have worked. I do feel it could have if they would have went after players from the start instead of insulting them.
Quote: BozRevel, and more specifically Kevin and UKStages, still dont get it. AC is not growing and will never be the same as it was before PA and NY competition. Therefore you have to find a way to tap into the current AC customer base that is still spending decent money at Caesars and Borgata. You are going to have to offer them a better deal for their money in terms of comps. Even Resorts is going out of their way to add a Margaritaville beach bar that will attract people.
But instead of trying to compete for these players, they offer less comps and give the excuse that "Your play doesnt met our expected level" for even free room comps that other casino give freely. It has become a standoff where the player feels insulted by Revel and stays at their current casino and Revel sits empty exxept for the few non gamblers who are willing to pay top dollar for their rooms and go to their club to party while the tables and slots sit empty.
The only question is how fast do they burn through the next $150 Million and who ends up owning and running this potential gem.
As for the smoking issue, I still wish we would have had a good operator from the start to see if a Non Smoking Casino could have worked. I do feel it could have if they would have went after players from the start instead of insulting them.
+1
Quote: sodawater+1
You must grade on a curve ? +10
Quote: Mission146Nice one! I didn't lol, but I grinned.
You should have seen it coming.
Some places serve live oysters. Not that oysters qualify as food, but still...
As to the smoking issue, wasn't there a bet about it?
Quote: rdw4potusBut...But...if Revel allows smoking then it really is just the Borgata. Only it's staffed by a**holes and it faces the other direction...
I love it! This is exactly right.
Quote: EvenBobI wasn't off by much. I predicted they would start to
allow smoking by the end of the year, and I did it before
they even opened. I was told I was full of it, that people
would LOVE LOVE LOVE a non smoking casino. Yeah, right.
Hey Bob, have you been there? The non-smoking is not the problem. Even the bad attitude isn't the problem, IMO. The bad attitude is a symptom, and it is exacerbating the problem, but it isn't the problem.
The problem is that Atlantic City is an groinpit and now that there's competition, no one wants to go there. Bad idea: building a multi-hundred million dollar casino resort in a dying casino town. The current bad attitude attitude is borne of the pressure of failure. If the place was rockin' I guarantee you everyone would be pleased as shit to see you.
Quote: BozRevel, and more specifically Kevin and UKStages, still dont get it. AC is not growing and will never be the same as it was before PA and NY competition. Therefore you have to find a way to tap into the current AC customer base that is still spending decent money at Caesars and Borgata. You are going to have to offer them a better deal for their money in terms of comps. Even Resorts is going out of their way to add a Margaritaville beach bar that will attract people.
But instead of trying to compete for these players, they offer less comps and give the excuse that "Your play doesnt met our expected level" for even free room comps that other casino give freely. It has become a standoff where the player feels insulted by Revel and stays at their current casino and Revel sits empty exxept for the few non gamblers who are willing to pay top dollar for their rooms and go to their club to party while the tables and slots sit empty.
The only question is how fast do they burn through the next $150 Million and who ends up owning and running this potential gem.
As for the smoking issue, I still wish we would have had a good operator from the start to see if a Non Smoking Casino could have worked. I do feel it could have if they would have went after players from the start instead of insulting them.
This post is exactly spot on. The smoking isn't the issue( it may be at best 10%) of the problem. In a market with dwindling market share. Starting a new billion dollar operation was risky at best and downright foolhardy at worst. Combine that with the poor management of the property and they were doomed from day 1.
I still say they are trying to go bankrupt on purpose and then write down their enormous debt. Hopefully then to emerge from bankruptcy leaner and cleaner. At which point we'll really see if it's a viable hotel/casino (which I doubt highly).
Quote: NareedYou should have seen it coming.
Some places serve live oysters. Not that oysters qualify as food, but still...
As to the smoking issue, wasn't there a bet about it?
Yes, Bob Dancer and the Wiz had a bet about it, but it was somewhat complicated. It involved a time frame and a percentage of the casino floor that was still non-smoking. I believe the Wizard took the optimistic side with respect to staying non-smoking.
Looked like a drunk tank for smokers and all of em huddled behind the glass doors because of the ill-fated smoking ban.
Though it is kind of hilarious to see all the nicotine fiends gathered by the vRevel alet drop-off area puffing away!
