Obamacare
Quote: BozI love how liberals use the word "teabagger" like it is an insult to followers of the Tea Party. If it is an insult then why do liberals fight everyday for those who love to do it to each other to be treated as equals and be allowed to get married?? So is getting balls on your face and in your mouth a bad thing or not? Seems many liberals consider it as act of affection.
Just for example:
F***ing fantastic (not an insult)
F*** you (insult)
Context.
Of course, depending on the inflection of the two above, they can take on even more meanings.
Quote: texasplumrObamacare isn't going anywhere!.
I saw a woman yesterday from some independent
group who has been studying O-Care since 2010.
She's says the law cannot work as written, has
major flaws, and needs to be rewritten or repealed.
She staked job and her reputation on saying by
this time next year it will have been repealed or unfunded,
if for no other reason then it's financially unsustainable.
Apparently it was poorly thought out and is a nightmare.
Quote: EvenBobI saw a woman yesterday from some independent
group who has been studying O-Care since 2010.
She's says the law cannot work as written, has
major flaws, and needs to be rewritten or repealed.
She staked job and her reputation on saying by
this time next year it will have been repealed or unfunded,
if for no other reason then it's financially unsustainable.
Apparently it was poorly thought out and is a nightmare.
Doesn't matter to those who think they benefited from it. They only care they got something for free from the bad evil "rich" guy who now wants to take it away from them. Or at least that's what the liberals tell them.
"The second enrollment season kicked off on Saturday, with minor snags, however, enthusiasm for the law remains underwhelming."
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/11/poll-obamacare-approval-112948.html
When will everyone finally understand that the law, as written, is poorly done and will screw up more than it fixes? Did some people benefit from it? Sure. Is the country going to be better off with the law as written? No. The sooner everyone figures that out, the sooner we can get to work supporting fixing or repealing it.
It may well be too late to repeal it, but we have to work on making it better if we can't get rid of it.
Quote: RonC
It may well be too late to repeal it, but we have to work on making it better if we can't get rid of it.
This is why we need a "sunset law" for all government programs. Make Congress and POTUS re-up it after say 5 years then every 5-10. Everybody is afraid to repeal the law even though it is a failure at every level. We will be stuck with it forever.
Sen. Chuck Schumer’s (D-New York):
“The plight of uninsured Americans and the hardships caused by unfair insurance company practices certainly needed to be addressed,” he added. “But it wasn’t the change we were hired to make. Americans were crying out for an end to the recession, for better wages and more jobs — not for changes in their health care.”
http://fusion.net/story/30263/chuck-schumer-obamacare-comments-aca/
Charles Krauthammer's take on what Schumer is saying now...
“He is repeating precisely the arguments that conservatives and Republicans had made at the time of Obamacare, where we argued that it was against the interests of the country to jeopardize the health insurance of the over 80 percent of Americans who liked it and for whom it was working.”
http://insider.foxnews.com/2014/11/26/krauthammer-schumer-repeating-conservatives-obamacare-arguments
So it appears to me that the Democrats hurt the insurance of more people than they helped in the process of doing the ACA and Schumer appears to be saying that they also ignored the mandate that got the President elected and built their majorities in the House and Senate...jobs and the economy.
He is talking about the political ramifications of the policies they pursued and how to get back on track, but they hurt a lot more people than they helped with the direction they took.
Quote: RonCI have heard some snippets from reports on this:
Sen. Chuck Schumer’s (D-New York):
“The plight of uninsured Americans and the hardships caused by unfair insurance company practices certainly needed to be addressed,” he added. “But it wasn’t the change we were hired to make. Americans were crying out for an end to the recession, for better wages and more jobs — not for changes in their health care.”
http://fusion.net/story/30263/chuck-schumer-obamacare-comments-aca/
Charles Krauthammer's take on what Schumer is saying now...
“He is repeating precisely the arguments that conservatives and Republicans had made at the time of Obamacare, where we argued that it was against the interests of the country to jeopardize the health insurance of the over 80 percent of Americans who liked it and for whom it was working.”
http://insider.foxnews.com/2014/11/26/krauthammer-schumer-repeating-conservatives-obamacare-arguments
So it appears to me that the Democrats hurt the insurance of more people than they helped in the process of doing the ACA and Schumer appears to be saying that they also ignored the mandate that got the President elected and built their majorities in the House and Senate...jobs and the economy.
He is talking about the political ramifications of the policies they pursued and how to get back on track, but they hurt a lot more people than they helped with the direction they took.
And the liberals on Huffington Post have turned on him so quickly. They eat their own if you say anything against their far left "we deserve free stuff" views.
Quote: BozAnd the liberals on Huffington Post have turned on him so quickly. They eat their own if you say anything against their far left "we deserve free stuff" views.
It is just more of the wingnuts that control their party. If the main part of the Democrat Party does not denounce their lunatic fringe they will keep losing elections.
http://charleshughsmith.blogspot.com/2014/12/the-great-generic-drug-rip-off.html
What was a cheap antibiotic "Doxycycline" is up 8200% in one year. It was/is a "healthcare" act written by and for the insurance company's.
Quote: petroglyph
What was a cheap antibiotic "Doxycycline" is up 8200% in one year. It was/is a "healthcare" act written by and for the insurance company's.
That is what you get when you live in a fascist system like we do here in the USA.
Quote: BozI love how liberals use the word "teabagger" like it is an insult to followers of the Tea Party. If it is an insult then why do liberals fight everyday for those who love to do it to each other to be treated as equals and be allowed to get married?? So is getting balls on your face and in your mouth a bad thing or not? Seems many liberals consider it as act of affection.
As to your situation, exactly how did Obamacare change your situation? Sorry to hear your wife is disabled, but didn't that already qualify her for care through SS?
Three spinal fusions in two years and more on the horizon. Under the Affordable Healthcare Act she could not be denied coverage by my insurance company due to pre existing conditions. With her health history, this would be a given. 9 major surgeries in the last ten years. Besides the back she has had two hip replacements, a Hysterectomy, Thyroid removed, Gall Bladder removed and Sinus surgery.
Once you are considered disabled by SSI you are eligible for Medicare after 24 months. She will be eligible for that December 2015. It has no prescription coverage so a supplement must be bought. Her prescription co pays alone in 2013 were 3600.00. So she's going to have to stay on my insurance.
Her disability check is 727.00 per month and adding her to my insurance is 312.00 per month. We're getting rich here.
And I apologize for the "Teabagger" reference. It is highly offensive, yes. No more offensive to me than Libtard. However, I don't recall you ever using that term, so I offer my most sincere apologies. But it still wouldn't matter if you had used that term or not. It's still offensive and I try to not offend needlessly on most occasions.
BBB or any other Admin, if you consider the term offensive as well, I offer myself up for a suspension. I will be a three time loser so expect it to be harsh. I also apologize to anybody else here who may have been offended.
Quote: AZDuffmanThat is what you get when you live in a fascist system like we do here in the USA.
Exactly.
People get all butthurt if they hear the word fascism without understanding what it means or how we got here. The results are continuing to go in the wrong direction and the majority do not seem to know why.
I think most people want healthcare. Putting the cost on the producers and not realizing an aspirin shouldn't realistically cost 7 dollars is a fools errand. I know that R&D needs to be recouped for new products. Many have the problem of not being able to afford the medicine that is already developed more than need new drugs to be invented. As these effective meds are rolling off patent and heretofore the pharma's have had to compete with generics, the market mechanism is being destroyed with monopoly pricing and socialized medicine [ACA]. It was a very bad way to go about getting everyone healthcare.
Quote: petroglyph
I think most people want healthcare. Putting the cost on the producers and not realizing an aspirin shouldn't realistically cost 7 dollars is a fools errand..
How is it, no one heard of overpriced drugs before Obamacare?
Obamcare 2013
This story 2009
Quote:The 50th percentile (the median) of hospitals charged 65 cents for an aspirin. The 75th percentile charged $2.62 for an aspirin. The 90th percentile charged $6.50 for an aspirin.
And the 99th percentile charged $11.42 for an aspirin. One hospital out of the 421 we looked at charged $18.02 for an aspirin, but it's so high we're kind of wondering if it's a mistake
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2009/11/18_dollar_asprin.html
Quote: rxwineHow is it, no one heard of overpriced drugs before Obamacare?
Obamcare 2013
This story 2009
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2009/11/18_dollar_asprin.html
RX, I don't know if you are asking me a rhetorical question? I think so. I have been railing about this for years. I don't perceive a difference between the red/blue team. I don't think any of them have the people or the country at heart. It's money and power.
We need to quit electing lifetime politicians who owe political favors. I am certainly not condemning Obama and giving Romney a walk, so siree.
FYI, since some people seem to think getting health care is a basic human right, keep this in mind...the people who are providing the health care to you have a right to the fruits of their labor. You do NOT have the right to get something from them for nothing...I don't give a crap how entitled you think you are. It's this kind of parasitic mentality among the extremist members of the Democratic party that concocted this abomination called the ACA in the first place. I was in college when this thing was passed and the ACA is precisely why I chose not to continue on to medical school and just did something else entirely with my life.
Slashing the payments to doctors, claiming they are overpaid or some such nonsense, just so you can afford to give everyone health insurance is basically going to slowly enslave them since the cost of medical training for a doctor is 250-500K total. Comparing our healthcare system to Europe and other countries with socialized medicine is apples to oranges because doctors in those countries don't have nearly as long of a timeframe to become a doctor (a lot of countries allow you to go straight from high school to medical school) and/or the government pays or heavily subsidizes the cost of their medical education so it's a give-and-take.
Petro has nailed it perfectly. Both Republicans and Democrats don't give a shit about us...they just want money and power. Politics should be a public service; not a career.
Quote: aladyat42If only the poor would have the common decency to just crawl away and die quietly.
I know, right? That's totally what I mean when I say someone shouldn't be able to force me to work for free. It's amazing how some people think slavery should be abolished but then they want to recreate it in other forms. Very hypocritical.
Let me ask you this Aladycat...I'm not sure what you do for a living, but say I come up to you and tell you I need you to work for pennies, or maybe just outright free, because it's for the greater good. Nevermind what you think is a fair rate of pay for what you do...you shouldn't get it because society will benefit more if you work for free or as close to free as possible, right? I mean heck after all if the poor need so much help with everything you should be willing to write them a check for all your disposable income, maybe voluntarily pay more in taxes, right? Think about that the next time you're sipping on your $4 latte knowing that those 4 dollars could have helped some poor person. You greedy person you.
The desire to be able to be rewarded for what one does with their labor, entrepreneurial drive, whatever is not a selfish wish that the poor would "just crawl away and die". It is the essence of fairness and capitalism, and without which, this great country would not exist. If you feel there are causes that need money / help, you are more than welcome to donate your money or time to them. Many do and many people you probably think are "selfish evil conservatives" do as well. First rule of economics....resources are scarce. Therefore there will always be poor and rich, haves and have nots, and everyone has to make choices on what they want and what they're willing to sacrifice for it.
However, the moment that donating your time or money to a cause, whatever it may be, becomes mandatory and not voluntary, it ceases to be a donation and instead becomes extortion.
Hence why I will not participate in the ACA as a medical worker. I'm not a slave, nor an indentured servant, nor do I wish to join an industry where I will slowly become one.
Quote: petroglyphExactly.
People get all butthurt if they hear the word fascism without understanding what it means or how we got here. The results are continuing to go in the wrong direction and the majority do not seem to know why.
I have to admit until a few years ago I really didn't understand what it meant. Once you know you see it for what it is. People are under the illusion that the USA is still a free country when in reality we lost that long ago. We have already lost our ability to choose our health insurance. Proper owners of large corporations have had their interests stolen from them and handed to others. College loan interest now goes to the feds and not the banks, a huge takeover.
Want a mortgage? The Fed has been creating money out of thin air, but you have to create wealth to pay it back! Same thing happens for the aforesaid student loans.
I keep hearing that it is offensive, insulting, a turn-off, or whatever to mention "the 47%." But the reality is this 47% are the 47% of the population willing to sell themselves into serfdom. We are well on our way there. Of course, many still think they are free, which is the best way to keep a slave content.
Quote: AZDuffmanI have to admit until a few years ago I really didn't understand what it meant. Once you know you see it for what it is. People are under the illusion that the USA is still a free country when in reality we lost that long ago. We have already lost our ability to choose our health insurance. Proper owners of large corporations have had their interests stolen from them and handed to others. College loan interest now goes to the feds and not the banks, a huge takeover.
Want a mortgage? The Fed has been creating money out of thin air, but you have to create wealth to pay it back! Same thing happens for the aforesaid student loans.
I keep hearing that it is offensive, insulting, a turn-off, or whatever to mention "the 47%." But the reality is this 47% are the 47% of the population willing to sell themselves into serfdom. We are well on our way there. Of course, many still think they are free, which is the best way to keep a slave content.
Well, some may just be realistic about it. The Patriot Act was the beginning of the end as far as I'm concerned. I've been to other countries though, and am still convinced we are by far still the best country out there in terms of freedom, although I do agree our freedom has been dramatically eroded over the last 15 years or so.
At this point, I would be ok with it if it just didn't get any worse, but the problem with people who believe in an ideology based around subjugating the productive members of society is that they can never have enough. They will always take more, and more, in their crusade to rid the world of poverty (not that that's even possible due to scarcity of resources) and the saddest thing is that they don't even give a damn about the people they claim to defend anyway. They just want power and it's a convenient excuse.
The dumbest part about it is every country where the government controlled everything, whether it was fascist, communist, whatever, has utterly and totally failed. USSR? Collapsed. China? Converting to capitalism and only becoming a developed country through capitalism. North Korea? Firmly Communist and to my knowledge the poorest and most isolated country in the world. Cuba? Historically Communist (who knows what will happen in the future now) and historically so poor that Cubans would rather risk open water on a shoddy raft to get to Florida than live under that system. Yet a lot of people on the left think that would just be a magical society over here. SMDH.
Quote: scubatim84
The dumbest part about it is every country where the government controlled everything, whether it was fascist, communist, whatever, has utterly and totally failed. USSR? Collapsed. China? Converting to capitalism and only becoming a developed country through capitalism. North Korea? Firmly Communist and to my knowledge the poorest and most isolated country in the world. Cuba? Historically Communist (who knows what will happen in the future now) and historically so poor that Cubans would rather risk open water on a shoddy raft to get to Florida than live under that system. Yet a lot of people on the left think that would just be a magical society over here. SMDH.
One thing I notice is most of the communist-types in the USA cram themselves into jobs where they are isolated from the realities of the economy. From the community college professor to the current occupant of the White House they never spend any time in a place where you must produce a surplus to survive.
My favorite is when the socialist types say "it keeps failing because of people like YOU!" What a joke! The only places socialism has "worked" are basically places with lots of natural resources they can sell to capitalist places that can better exploit them.
As to what will happen to Cuba, hard to say. The people have been conditioned-lazy to where most do not know how to function without government running their lives. OTOH no matter how repressed a country when there are reforms there is usually a part of the population that naturally wants to be capitalist. My prediction is it becomes an off-shore crime haven if they start reforms. But remember, they are not starting reforms, we are just making nice.
Quote: AZDuffmanI have to admit until a few years ago I really didn't understand what it meant. Once you know you see it for what it is. People are under the illusion that the USA is still a free country when in reality we lost that long ago. We have already lost our ability to choose our health insurance. Proper owners of large corporations have had their interests stolen from them and handed to others. College loan interest now goes to the feds and not the banks, a huge takeover.
Want a mortgage? The Fed has been creating money out of thin air, but you have to create wealth to pay it back! Same thing happens for the aforesaid student loans.
I keep hearing that it is offensive, insulting, a turn-off, or whatever to mention "the 47%." But the reality is this 47% are the 47% of the population willing to sell themselves into serfdom. We are well on our way there. Of course, many still think they are free, which is the best way to keep a slave content.
Wow, I'm reading this and well. wow. I kind of feel sad this is how you view things.
I think you watch too much foxnews. Its really a doom and gloom channel because they all hate Obama. A positive story just wont cut it with a Fox audience.
Fox wants their audience mad, the audience wants to get mad and the cycle just feeds itself and well, this is where you get.
We are free. I am free.
Not part of the 47%
I know you are upset about ACA but I truly consider myself a free person. Now maybe it is due to my life situation but many people are like me.
The ACA does not affect me unless it raises my taxes which I don't mind. Hitting Vegas next week, 4th trip this year.
I've worked my whole life, have 20 years in with the company. Lots of vacation. (Its what keeps me there, 4 weeks plus holidays)
Pay off debt as I get older, make more due to experience, piggy bank IRA, just about own house, life is good.
I am FREE. Vegas next week:-)
This is what freedom is about, travelling across the country to play ridiculous (but fun) gambling games at a company 24 billion in debt :-)
Just a regular working joe not the plumber. But a Free Joe:-)
Quote: terapinedWow, I'm reading this and well. wow. I kind of feel sad this is how you view things.
I think you watch too much foxnews. Its really a doom and gloom channel because they all hate Obama. A positive story just wont cut it with a Fox audience.
I do not even have cable. I use FNC as one of my online sources, but one of several. Don't feel sad, I am a person looking with my eyes wide open. You can complain about Fox as much as you like, but in the meantime feel free to point out any point I made above that is untrue.
Quote:Just a regular working joe not the plumber. But a Free Joe:-)
Really? How many days a year do you work to pay your taxes for all that freedom? In Medieval Times people were serfs who had to provide 1-6 man-days of labor to the Lord on his lands before they worked their own. Today we must pay Obamacare taxes as a condition of being alive, property taxes as a condition of living in our homes, and give up to 50% of what we make for all this "freedom" when all is said and done. Meanwhile what we are allowed to do on that property we own steadily erodes away to the point where laws must be passed to allow us things as simple as a garden or flag pole in our front yard.
Oh, I forgot. Carry $11,000 in cash to play with on that Vegas trip, buy cheques with it all at once. Pay for the plane ticket with cash. Get pulled over and let the cops see it. Let me know what happens.
Estonia is ranked more free than the USA, a nation that was part of the USSR just 25 years ago!
Quote: terapinedWow, I'm reading this and well. wow. I kind of feel sad this is how you view things.
I think you watch too much foxnews. Its really a doom and gloom channel because they all hate Obama. A positive story just wont cut it with a Fox audience.
Fox wants their audience mad, the audience wants to get mad and the cycle just feeds itself and well, this is where you get.
We are free. I am free.
Not part of the 47%
I know you are upset about ACA but I truly consider myself a free person. Now maybe it is due to my life situation but many people are like me.
The ACA does not affect me unless it raises my taxes which I don't mind. Hitting Vegas next week, 4th trip this year.
I've worked my whole life, have 20 years in with the company. Lots of vacation. (Its what keeps me there, 4 weeks plus holidays)
Pay off debt as I get older, make more due to experience, piggy bank IRA, just about own house, life is good.
I am FREE. Vegas next week:-)
This is what freedom is about, travelling across the country to play ridiculous (but fun) gambling games at a company 24 billion in debt :-)
Just a regular working joe not the plumber. But a Free Joe:-)
Like I said, I do agree we have more freedom than other countries. But, with a straight face, can you honestly say you have as much freedom now as you did pre 9/11?
FYI, I don't watch Fox, don't attend Republican gatherings, not even religious at all yet I don't subscribe to this mantra that conservatives are just obsessed with hating Obama because they're racist and they hate the poor and they think Hitler had the right idea or whatever craziness Alady was insinuating. It wasn't a rational, well thought-out reply like yours was so it was hard to tell. But still...there shouldn't be right and left, or Republican and Democrat, or whatever. Most of the conservative view point is just common sense anyway. I wish we would just do away with the 2-party system, which isn't good for anything other than turning us against each other, because I consider myself an American not a Republican or Democrat...and there's a huge difference.
I'm not as pessimistic as a lot of conservatives are about the direction our country is going. Am I genuinely concerned? Yes, but I can't do anything about it other than vote, which I already do, so it is what it is and I'm going to live my life the best that I can. I'm also not as optimistic as a lot of liberals are about the trust we should give government and how big we should allow it to grow. Our country wasn't founded through the benevolence of large government. It was founded through the malicious, violent hand of government out of control.
I think a lot of liberal ideas are fantastic, such as social equality and abolishing discrimination, women having equal rights, not shoving religion or your views on abortion down everyone's throat, etc. etc. However, where conservative ideals shine is on everything when it comes to money. Democrats even admit they pee away money https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAWXD-NL9g8. We can't afford to give everything away to everyone...there ain't no such thing as a free lunch and every time you give something to someone someone else is paying for it. Personally I think all politicians, although this would benefit Democrats more than anyone else, should be required to take and ace a personal finance class before they're allowed to pass any law affecting money, budgets, etc.
All that being said I generally consider myself free to do what I want. However, whenever I have to fly and go through the TSA BS, or read about law enforcement abusing their power and confiscating people's money, wrongfully arresting them, etc., or I hear about another scandal involving the government like NSA spying on everyone without a warrant, I am reminded that freedom is not a guarantee and we would do well to remember what our founding fathers had to do to secure theirs. It'd be a damn shame if we pissed away their sacrifices because we decided to believe big government actually has our best interest at heart.
Quote: scubatim84Heh, even on a gambling forum I'm reminded of the turd that is Obamacare. Go figure.
FYI, since some people seem to think getting health care is a basic human right, keep this in mind...the people who are providing the health care to you have a right to the fruits of their labor. You do NOT have the right to get something from them for nothing...I don't give a crap how entitled you think you are. It's this kind of parasitic mentality among the extremist members of the Democratic party that concocted this abomination called the ACA in the first place. I was in college when this thing was passed and the ACA is precisely why I chose not to continue on to medical school and just did something else entirely with my life.
Slashing the payments to doctors, claiming they are overpaid or some such nonsense, just so you can afford to give everyone health insurance is basically going to slowly enslave them since the cost of medical training for a doctor is 250-500K total. Comparing our healthcare system to Europe and other countries with socialized medicine is apples to oranges because doctors in those countries don't have nearly as long of a timeframe to become a doctor (a lot of countries allow you to go straight from high school to medical school) and/or the government pays or heavily subsidizes the cost of their medical education so it's a give-and-take.
Petro has nailed it perfectly. Both Republicans and Democrats don't give a shit about us...they just want money and power. Politics should be a public service; not a career.
Or you could look North to Canada where the medical schools are pretty much the same as in the USA. Some undergrad, write your MCAT, have the prerequisites, and enter full-blown medical school. There are plenty of doctors working here under our socialized medicine and they all get paid very well, probably not nearly as much as a US doctor would. The costs of medical school are subsized somewhat here.
We think that market forces are at play with the American health care system when the opposite is true. Insurance companies hold monopolies on county health system such that in some places, you only have one choice for health care. This allows them to set prices and keep profits and prices artificially high. There isn't competition going on. Hospitals inflate prices to their patients to profit because they're the only market in town. All of this is legal and the cost of all of this is passed on to the consumer. Yet people who despite the ACA will just turn a blind eye to these facts. There are reasons why companies are paying an arm and a leg for health insurance and are passing along huge deductables and higher premiums to their employees.
Socialized medicine takes the profit out of the hand of insurance companies and hospitals and effectively removes the middle man and puts all services on the same footing. This reduces cost. It also reduces quality because there's no greed motivation to do well and the money is less. These are the tradeoffs.
Doctors in Canada do fine. A GP can still pull in a couple of hundred bucks per hour with 10 minute appointments. A 300K income isn't bad.
Quote: boymimboIt also reduces quality because there's no greed motivation to do well and the money is less. These are the tradeoffs.
This is precisely why Canadians, and people in other countries, will come to the US to seek medical care. My stepfather used to live in Canada and apparently the Canadian medical system works so well because many die on waiting lists before they get life saving treatment or surgery. So much for all people deserving to get health care...there will never be enough so it must be rationed out.
You are correct in that health insurance companies have greatly contributed to the problem. The health insurance system is completely broken; I agree on that. However, government rarely fixes anything it touches and more often completely breaks what is partially broken.
Vermont Gov. Peter Shumlin is canceling his dream plan to create a single-payer health system in the state.
The best part is they realize it will not save money:
"But beyond federal funding, the report also admits that the single-payer system won’t save money as Vermont officials had planned. While both previous reports on Green Mountain Care had assumed “hundreds of millions of dollars” in savings in the very first year of operation, Shumlin’s office is now admitting that’s “not practical to achieve.”"
Quote: scubatim84The dumbest part about it is every country where the government controlled everything, whether it was fascist, communist, whatever, has utterly and totally failed. USSR? Collapsed. China? Converting to capitalism and only becoming a developed country through capitalism. North Korea? Firmly Communist and to my knowledge the poorest and most isolated country in the world. Cuba? Historically Communist (who knows what will happen in the future now) and historically so poor that Cubans would rather risk open water on a shoddy raft to get to Florida than live under that system. Yet a lot of people on the left think that would just be a magical society over here. SMDH.
Nobody on the left thinks Communism would be a magical society in America, except for some crazies who cannot be correctly affiliated with a major political party. Some people on the left think that implementing some components of European socialism would improve society. I did a report on the topic during my Master's. People grossly misunderstand what socialism is. Having a policeman come to your house when there is a burglar...socialist. European socialism = good, because it is successful. South American socialism = bad, because it is a failure. This is not really debatable. What's sort of debatable is whether European systems can be adapted to American life. Equivocating European socialism with Russian or Korean communism is plainly wrong. And historically, pure capitalism is just about as bad as pure communism. Socialism is a middle ground and is the most benign, which is why no pure capitalist or communist country exists. The USSR was worse, at last partly, because their economy was less mixed than ours. I am not advocating pure socialism, but I am pointing out that we live in a mixed economy and socialist elements are not communist, nor are they inherently bad. I would even argue that the 'capitalism' you mention in China isn't capitalism at all, it is socialism. It looks like capitalism because the base economy is communist; I think you might brand a far more capitalist American attitude as socialist in comparison to a far less capitalistic attitude in China, just because one moves away from capitalism and the other towards it--taking into account momentum, but not distance. JMO, with all due respect to yours.
Quote: SonuvabishHaving a policeman come to your house when there is a burglar...socialist.
Incorrect. This is a silly comment liberals make when the utter failure of socialism is pointed out. Police protection is a public protective service. Same as the fire department. BTW: not even all fire departments are government. Many are volunteer and some are private and optional, as was the one the rightly let a guy's house burn to the ground because he refused to pay the premium.
Quote:European socialism = good, because it is successful.
Incorrect. Greece, Spain, Portugal, these are all failures. The least socialist EU country is the most successful, Germany. The so-called "socialist successes" are EU countries that are selling oil to a capitalist world.
Quote:I am not advocating pure socialism, but I am pointing out that we live in a mixed economy and socialist elements are not communist, nor are they inherently bad.
Socialism will always fail in the end. When you take away the rewards for personal labor then people will soon see that it is easier to refuse to work and let someone else pull the cart while they ride in it.
If they lowballed their income to get a cheaper premium - they are in for a nasty surprise when they file their returns.
Quote:will ObamaCare be a good thing or a bad thing for the country? The new poll, released Thursday, finds views split 47-47 percent on that question. A year ago, more voters said it would be a bad thing by 51-42 percent.
The number of Democrats who think ObamaCare will ultimately be a good thing (76 percent) is equally matched by the number of Republicans who say it will be bad (76 percent).
Meanwhile, a 52-percent majority wishes Obamacare had never passed and the 2009 system were still in place. Most Republicans (83 percent), a majority of independents (61 percent) and a handful of Democrats (21 percent) feel that way. That’s down from a high of 55 percent (in February and June 2014).
On the other hand, 41 percent of voters are glad the Affordable Care Act passed. That’s up from 37 percent in September -- and is the highest number recorded since the question was first asked on a Fox News poll in December 2013.
Some 43 percent of voters approve of the job President Obama is doing handling health care overall, while 53 percent disapprove. Those are the best marks he has received on this issue in almost a year. Last month it was 40-58 percent.
The Fox News poll is conducted by telephone with live interviewers under the joint direction of Anderson Robbins Research (D) and Shaw & Company Research (R). The 1,044 registered voters were reached via landline and cell phone numbers randomly selected for inclusion in this nationwide survey from February 8-10, 2015. The full poll has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus three percentage points.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/02/12/fox-news-poll-will-obamacare-ultimately-be-good-thing-or-bad-thing/?intcmp=trending
Quote: steeldcoOn Friday, one of the companies that I do some consulting for, told me that they received a quote on their health insurance renewal that is 29% LESS than the current policy with the same coverage. They are considering increasing the coverage because of this. Something is working.
It's the temporary subsidies. They run out next year and people are going to get hammered across the board. Same with the states dumb enough to adopt Medicaid Expansion. The "free" federal bait money runs out next year and states like Mexifornia are going to start getting hammered with billions and billions of dollars which will require those states to cut services and/or raise taxes.
Welcome to austerity-as the insurance companies, providers, pharmaceuticals and trial lawyers continue to laugh all the way to the bank-and the $40,000 a head fundraisers for Democrats.
There is no reason why in this country there shouldn't be some form of national healthcare. People shouldn't die because of lack of healthcare. The United States is or should be better than that. Now that's not to say that there shouldn't be 'better' healthcare for those that have more money and are willing and able to pay for it. But there should be basic healthcare for everyone.
Maybe Obamacare in it's current form isn't the answer...I don't know. But at least it was an attempt. Instead of just trashing it, how about both sides work together, keep what is good and working and try to improve what isn't.
I guess one of my biggest disappointments in "The Affordable Care Act", (and I think calling it by this name would alleviate half the opposition...lol) is that it was not explained to people nearly well enough. I think I am of average intelligence, and I had a very hard time (still do) trying to figure it out. And I have spent a good amount of time trying to figure it out. I knew it wasn't going to help me, but I thought there would be some benefit to my partner who is currently on Medicare. Near as I can figure there isn't and that's OK, I can afford supplemental medicare for him, but it's just so hard to figure anything out, and I am still not sure he doesn't qualify for something that I haven't figured out. ??
One general tenet of life experience is that the more complicated something is the more likely someone is trying to obscure or hide something. The ACA is a prime example of that.Quote: kewljNear as I can figure there isn't and that's OK, I can afford supplemental medicare for him, but it's just so hard to figure anything out, and I am still not sure he doesn't qualify for something that I haven't figured out. ??
Quote: kewlj
There is no reason why in this country there shouldn't be some form of national healthcare. People shouldn't die because of lack of healthcare. The United States is or should be better than that. Now that's not to say that there shouldn't be 'better' healthcare for those that have more money and are willing and able to pay for it. But there should be basic healthcare for everyone.
Actually, there is no reason why we should nationalize healthcare. Nothing else is nationalized. Food is not, nor is housing, clothing, transportation, energy, or any other number of things people "need."
Quote: kewljI have no real opinion on Obamacare. I do find it interesting that it is really a republican idea that now somehow is poison because the democrats put it through.
This is one of those statements with a little bit a truth to it...but not a complete picture. Just because an idea may originate on one side or the other, it means nothing when the law that is written by the other side is completely different than what the original thought might have been. Let's not obfuscate--Obamacare was written by Democrats and passed by Democrats. It was signed into law by a Democrat. If it works, they should get all the credit. If not, they should get all the blame.
Passing bills that last forever with funding that only lasts a few years is always dangerous. What happens when the funding runs out? Can we afford the burden? When a bill that creates funding is passed, the funding should be planned for the life of the bill. If it is one year of funding, it should be a one year bill. Politicians, all of them (not just your favorite Democrat or my favorite Republican) typically don't care a wit about the long term...they just want to get elected again. That is why their ideas are so screwy when you look at them in the long term.
Quote: AZDuffmanActually, there is no reason why we should nationalize healthcare. Nothing else is nationalized. Food is not, nor is housing, clothing, transportation, energy, or any other number of things people "need."
Military and healthcare are not like the others. Too expensive a burden for individual choice.
Quote: rxwineMilitary and healthcare are not like the others. Too expensive a burden for individual choice.
Military yes. Healthcare, no. People can afford their own health care. Of course everyone does not get to drive a Cadillac, either. If we got away from "insurance" taking care of everything and back to fee for service prices would fall.
BTW: Most people will pay more for housing than health insurance. Why don't we have "single-payer apartments" mandatory?
Quote: AZDuffmanMilitary yes. Healthcare, no. People can afford their own health care. Of course everyone does not get to drive a Cadillac, either
You must not have any medical bills, other than for aspirin and a routine checkup.
Quote: steeldcoIt's unfriggin' believable to me that the Republican party makes an issue of the one thing that Obama may have gotten somewhat right. All of the other crap that he has done, that he should be chastised for, should have provided enough ammo. They railed on the wrong issue. I am beginning to believe that my once favored Republican party has acquired membership that is as dumb as a box of rocks........
I was born 50 years ago when there were 172 Republicans in both houses of Congress COMBINED. Now there are 247 in just the House alone-plus a solid majority in the Senate.
So it seems to me your "concern" with the party is not needed. Let us run our way and your party can keep running on globalism, welfare, debt, black supremacism, open borders, ever higher taxes to support already overfed government labor unions and boys showering in girls locker rooms. It's worked so well for you-don't change a thing, PLEASE.
Quote: steeldcoIt did get it right because I know that the little company with the 29% health insurance premium decrease, when they inform their employees of the reduced cost and probable increase in coverage, will have created a couple of hundred Democratic votes in the next election. The dumb as a box of rocks current Republicans need to let it go, maybe even jump on the bandwagon, and move the focus to Obama's historically dumbass foreign policies or his many other screw-ups.
More people already have been screwed by Obamacare than are benefiting from it-hence the biggest Republican landslide since Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig were in the Yankee's starting lineup. On 12/31/16 when the temporary subsidies and "free" Medicaid expansion end and the tax on union health plans goes into effect your party is going to be as doomed as Hitler in the bunker. The majority of those helped by Obamacare are the welfare bums, dopers, parasites and high school dropouts who are already the base of your party. It's the middle class swing voters that are and will continue to take it in the *** from Obamacare.
