Obamacare
Quote: RonCAs the President, he is responsible for everything that his administration is responsible for that happens or fails to happen. His administration is responsible for the lawful implementation of the ACA (Obamacare). Do you folks really think he has done a good job?
Quote: ams288As good as any President could do based on the circumstances (i.e. worthless Congress).
First, there was a law written, passed, and signed into law. Even though I disagree with the decision, the Supreme Court upheld as a "tax" what Obama's team argued first was not a tax and then, suddenly when the game changed, that it was a tax. Essentially, they lied until they couldn't lie any more. Second, "as good as any President could do"...not at all. He is supposed to implement the laws as they are written, not as he feels they should be implemented. The "worthless Congress" does not implement laws--it was a "done deal", as all of us were told.
He has expanded the trend of expanding the power of the President, which I disagree with either party or any President doing. The Presidency should stay within the specific powers in the Constitution but we're all guilty of letting that bus leave the station...
Quote: RonCThat he has implemented it as written?
Quote: ams288No. What other options does he have? He's done what he has to do. Republicans are so unwilling to do anything but "repeal" (something that will NEVER happen at this point), that he's had to skirt Congress to make it work. Oh well.
Again, there was a law...he did not implement it on the schedule set forth in the law. It was HIS law!! He refuses to implement his own law.
Has he even tried to work with Congress? Nope. He is as much against them as they are against him. He could back them into a corner with the bully pulpit; he'd rather just talk bad about them.
Quote: RonCThat he has the right people in the right job?
Quote: ams288Yes.
Really? They don't seem to be getting the job done...
Quote: RonCThat he knows enough about it to know what is going on?
Quote: ams288Yes. This is a silly question.
Silly? No way. His lack of attention to any detail is pretty obvious from other incidents.
Quote: RonCAgain, there was a law...he did not implement it on the schedule set forth in the law. It was HIS law!! He refuses to implement his own law.
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Don't know if I've ever seen this point fleshed out, with many examples. Of course, right down at the bottom of the scale cops ignore some violations and enforce others. Judges seem to act somewhat irregularly but then if all cases are individual, is discretion appropriate?
To be fair, perhaps the question Obama asks in council with experts (if needed), "is this too far" or "can I go this far" if he feels that is necessary.
(I ask similar questions when driving. Will I get stopped at 78mph if the speed limit is 70, or maybe I should set cruise control to 76, not let's stay at 70. Guess I'm a lawbreaker)
I don't know how many lawmakers have violated the strict letter of laws. Since you like it if I bring up Bush (joke), pretty sure Bush asked all kinds of constitutional questions concerning detention and gitmo and all that, and what was the limit of his authority to act, not let's make sure we stay at minimum.
As all presidents probably have done.
Quote: rxwineDon't know if I've ever seen this point fleshed out, with many examples. Of course, right down at the bottom of the scale cops ignore some violations and enforce others. Judges seem to act somewhat irregularly but then if all cases are individual, is discretion appropriate?
To be fair, perhaps the question Obama asks in council with experts (if needed), "is this too far" or "can I go this far" if he feels that is necessary.
(I ask similar questions when driving. Will I get stopped at 78mph if the speed limit is 70, or maybe I should set cruise control to 76, not let's stay at 70. Guess I'm a lawbreaker)
I don't know how many lawmakers have violated the strict letter of laws. Since you like it if I bring up Bush (joke), pretty sure Bush asked all kinds of constitutional questions concerning detention and gitmo and all that, and what was the limit of his authority to act, not let's make sure we stay at minimum.
As all presidents probably have done.
The old "they all have done it, so it is just fine for him to do it" excuse... President Bush did things that were wrong, you called him out on it and he was wrong. President Obama does things that are wrong, they are wrong, and you wonder if it is maybe okay because everyone else is doing it...
If President Bush jumped off a bridge, should President Obama do the same thing? Didn't he promise you, his supporters, that he would be better?
NBC News: What If A Republican Selectively Enforced Obamacare Like Obama’s Doing?
http://lonelyconservative.com/2014/03/nbc-news-what-if-a-republican-selectively-enforced-obamacare-like-obamas-doing/
Obama Selectively Implements More Than Just Obamacare, At Great Taxpayer Expense
http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/01/17/obama-selectively-implements-more-than-just-obamacare-at-great-taxpayer-expense/
President Obama’s decision to delay implementation of certain parts of Obamacare until after the 2014 midterm elections reveals that he views the law as “a smorgasbord of options,” according to Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.).
http://redalertpolitics.com/2013/07/14/mcconnell-president-views-obamacare-as-a-smorgasbord-of-options-to-implement-selectively/
I realize these sources may be from the "Conservative" side, but that has no bearing on what the President is doing. Why even have a bill if the guy in charge of enforcing it is just going to do whatever the heck he pleases? Why not just let him declare himself King and get on with it....or just have him sign a blank piece of paper signed as a "law" and go from there.
If everyone from the top dude on down can just do what they want with any law they want to do it with, why have laws? Heck, we could stop fighting over everything and everyone could pay whatever amount they want in taxes and do what they please. SOMEONE has to be in charge; we elected him. He could at least act like it is important to do what the law says needs to be done!!
Quote: RonCIf everyone from the top dude on down can just do what they want with any law they want to do it with, why have laws?
If the question is Nazi-like efficiency or discretion and operating range, I'll take the latter two. The courts or the voters can settle whether the results are good enough.
Quote:If President Bush jumped off a bridge, should President Obama do the same thing?
Couldn't Bush just jump off the bridge?
Quote: RonCIf everyone from the top dude on down can just do what they want with any law they want to do it with, why have laws?
Quote: rxwineIf the question is Nazi-like efficiency or discretion and operating range, I'll take the latter two. The courts or the voters can settle whether the results are good enough.
I don't think anyone wants "Nazi-like efficiency" but we should also realize it can go too far the other way. Passing a bill you want, the way you want it, with a Congress you control, and then failing to enforce it pretty much as written is too far the other way. You and I can lie to each other but there is no "good of the nation" involved in his selective enforcement--it is just a way to get through the mid-terms and hopefully at least keep the Senate.
Would you accept the same thing form the other side?
Quote: RonCIf President Bush jumped off a bridge, should President Obama do the same thing?
Quote: rxwineCouldn't Bush just jump off the bridge?
There you go again. It wouldn't matter--he is not President; hasn't been for almost 5 1/2 years. Yet the new guy (not so new; growing old on all of us really quickly) is allowed to do things he said Bush did wrong and campaigned against with nary a word from most on his side.
Quote: RonCThere you go again. It wouldn't matter--he is not President; hasn't been for almost 5 1/2 years. Yet the new guy (not so new; growing old on all of us really quickly) is allowed to do things he said Bush did wrong and campaigned against with nary a word from most on his side.
Well, you're the one who asked if Bush should jump off the bridge. So, I gave an answer.
Don't use old Reagan quotes. Because you're no Jack Kennedy. I didn't know Jack Kennedy, but pretty sure you're not him.
Edit: correction, I guess Bush jumped off a bridge. Well, good for him.
Quote: rxwineWell, you're the one who asked if Bush should jump off the bridge. So, I gave an answer.
Don't use old Reagan quotes. Because you're no Jack Kennedy. I didn't know Jack Kennedy, but pretty sure you're not him.
Edit: correction, I guess Bush jumped off a bridge. Well, good for him.
I know Bush jumped out of planes and helicopters...wrong Bush.
(I really don't care about any of this. I just was irate that the other thread pulled ahead)
Godwin's Law. You lose rx. Again.Quote: rxwineIf the question is Nazi-like efficiency
Quote: chickenmanGodwin's Law. You lose rx. Again.
+1
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/07/walmart-health-care-coverage-obamacare_n_5945338.html
It looks like the ACA drove more people to sign up for Walmart's plans...that drove up costs by more than 50% and now they are cutting things and raising premiums.
Is this a good or bad thing? Is it really the ACA?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/11/10/obamacare_architect_lack_of_transparency_is_a_huge_political_advantage.html
“Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage,” says the MIT economist who helped write Obamacare. “And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical for the thing to pass.”
http://dailysignal.com/2014/11/09/caught-camera-obamacare-architect-admits-deceiving-americans-pass-law/
Before all you Democrat/Liberals work yourself into a frenzy, I dislike this guy because of his attitude towards ALL of us...except those elites who are smarter than all of us and should rule us because of their superiority. Romneycare was a STATE program, Obamacare is a NATIONAL program but this guy's attitude sucks wherever he is...
It was done at night.
Late at night.
It wasn't even really written as it was being passed under "Reconciliation"...
There was no emergency.
We had to pass the bill to find out what was in it.
...and some of you bought this crap hook, line, and sinker. I'm not saying we didn't need reform of some kind, but was your real idea that our government would pass a law in the dark with the truth hidden from us and that would save the health care system? This law is full of flaws and is crashing one piece at a time.
You elected the most transparent President in history. We got a bill full of stuff passed under the radar with an author who thought the lack of transparency was important to getting it passed...
was the plan. Lie after lie after lie, we're
too stupid to get it.
Quote: EvenBobOf course Obama knew he was lying, that
was the plan. Lie after lie after lie, we're
too stupid to get it.
Most people that wanted Obamacare thought and still think it is "free health care." There is this part of the population that thinks you drive up to a doctor in Canada and they see you, no charge. Then you go to the pharmacy and say, "filler up" and don't pay a cent.
I don't blame the guy for saying they were stupid. I said they were stupid all along. The stupidity of the American Public is legendary. Point it out and you get laughed at or/and called all kinds of names.
Of course I will keep pointing it out, I've been laughed at and called all kinds of names all my life.
Quote: KeyserYes indeed, most of the democrat base is definitely low IQ.
This is ridiculous. It's pretty safe to say more billionaires are republican and more poor high school dropouts are democrats. Pretty sure the billionaires are generally smarter.
Not even remotely true. LOL! Pew says that republican are smarter. Www.bizpacreview.com/2013/03/10/pew-makes-it-official-republicans-are-smarter-than-democrats-54686
Quote: KeyserSonuvabish,
Not even remotely true. Pew says that republican are smarter.
It was oil IQ, deleted. Didn't realize you could have an oil IQ. Thought you just had an IQ.
Quote: KeyserGive it up.
?
Quote: SonuvabishThis is ridiculous. It's pretty safe to say more billionaires are republican and more poor high school dropouts are democrats. Pretty sure the billionaires are generally smarter.
Sorry, I do not see that more billionaires are republicans. The opposite seems to be true in fact. At the least they back both sides and deal with whomever is in power.
Quote: SonuvabishQuote: KeyserYes indeed, most of the democrat base is definitely low IQ.
This is ridiculous. It's pretty safe to say more billionaires are republican and more poor high school dropouts are democrats. Pretty sure the billionaires are generally smarter.
I'm not sure why you stand in disagreement with those whom you would see in leadership like Gruber. Keyser isn't calling the democrat base low in IQ, he's repeating to you what your leaders think about you, and their utter reliance on it to pass Obamacare. If you support(-ed) it, then you're in this group - i.e., low IQ, ignorant, stupid, whatever - at least according to your leaders.
What billionaires have to do with how you're viewed by your leaders, I don't see. What you see in being played as a patsy and counted as ignorant, I don't see. But your problem isn't with billionaires or Republicans or with them reminding you of what your leaders think about you. Your problem is with your leaders and their philosophy. Take it up with them.
Quote: MrWarmth. If you support(-ed) it, then you're in this group - i.e., low IQ, ignorant, stupid, whatever - at least according to your leaders.
.
I support the ACA act.
I look at each issue individually, look at pros and cons, and make a decision regardless of what other people say.
I know you dont agree with my decision but isn't that the proper way to make a decision?
Quote: terapinedI support the ACA act.
I look at each issue individually, look at pros and cons, and make a decision regardless of what other people say.
I know you dont agree with my decision but isn't that the proper way to make a decision?
Again ... this is what Gruber said, not me. I don't know you, I don't know if you're stupid or not, and I don't rely on your supposed stupidity to gain your support. Gruber and other leaders of your philosophy, however, do. Take it up with him.
Yes, I don't agree with your decision, and yes, that's a proper way to make a decision. But that's not the topic. The topic is what your leaders assume about you and that they lied.
Maybe you did thoughtfully consider Obamacare. If you did, you would have concluded that rates would rise, as did most others who similarly thoughtfully considered it. Maybe you're OK with your leaders saying otherwise, knowing that they were lying.
If you did, you would have concluded that not everybody would be able to keep their doctor, as did most others who thoughtfully considered it. Maybe you're OK with your leaders saying otherwise, knowing that they were lying.
If you didn't know, well, I thought you said you thoughtfully considered it. Your leaders wrote it, and they knew. They've admitted they were lying and obfuscating. A thoughtful consideration could only draw the same conclusion.
Maybe you didn't really thoughtfully consider it. Maybe your intelligence level is what your leaders think it is. Maybe you're insane. Like I said, I don't know you. I do know what you've told me, and I know that it paints you into a pretty tight corner - lying, stupid, or insane are the only options here.
I, however, would ask the following: whatever you think about the legislation, are you OK that your leaders intentionally constructed the law to be opaque and knowingly lied to the American people, depending heavily on their ignorance to get popular support for passage?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio
Quote: MrWarmthBut that's not the topic. The topic is what your leaders assume about you and that they lied.
-The topic is what your leaders assume about you and that they lied.
-Maybe you're OK with your leaders saying otherwise, knowing that they were lying.
- Maybe you're OK with your leaders saying otherwise, knowing that they were lying.
-are you OK that your leaders intentionally constructed the law to be opaque and knowingly lied to the American people, depending heavily on their ignorance to get popular support for passage?
Get off the high horse, because you don't deserve to sit there.
Had the rightwing leaders fought with truth, they might have something to stand on harder than quicksand.
Politifact is filled with dubious claims about the ACA from both sides for the last several years. What may be amazing from the rightwing is the claim of knowing what is in it and also not knowing what was in it. Neat trick by some. They will tell you what's wrong while not knowing what's in it?
Quote: MrWarmthI, however, would ask the following: whatever you think about the legislation, are you OK that your leaders intentionally constructed the law to be opaque and knowingly lied to the American people, depending heavily on their ignorance to get popular support for passage?
Don't ALL politicians lie.
Are you saying those on the right are always truthful and those left just lie.
All politicians lie since, well the Greeks and Romans.
Despite all the lies on the left and right, I still need to look at the issue and make my own decisions which I have done.
Politicians lie and think the public is dumb. Its been like forever. This isn't news. Its reality.
I still have the same doctor. I consider my insurance affordable.
Sure I lean left, but I certainly don't think those on the right are dumb.
Its simply a different world view that separates left and right. No side is smart and the other dumb.
Quote: rxwineGet off the high horse, because you don't deserve to sit there.
Had the rightwing leaders fought with truth, they might have something to stand on harder than quicksand.
Politifact is filled with dubious claims about the ACA from both sides for the last several years. What may be amazing from the rightwing is the claim of knowing what is in it and also not knowing what was in it. Neat trick by some. They will tell you what's wrong while not knowing what's in it?
I just apply what Gruber said to those that support(-ed) the law. I agree, it is high-horse-y. But it's not my horse and your problem isn't with me. Take it up with your leaders. And, take it up with yourself for being a patsy.
Thing is, your leaders knew what was wrong with it. Gruber wrote it, in large part. But rather than being honest with the American public, he and his team fashioned a calculated series of lies. He wasn't speaking from ignorance, he was speaking from arrogance.
Quote: terapinedDon't ALL politicians lie.
Are you saying those on the right are always truthful and those left just lie.
All politicians lie since, well the Greeks and Romans.
Despite all the lies on the left and right, I still need to look at the issue and make my own decisions which I have done.
Politicians lie and think the public is dumb. Its been like forever. This isn't news. Its reality.
I still have the same doctor. I consider my insurance affordable.
Sure I lean left, but I certainly don't think those on the right are dumb.
Its simply a different world view that separates left and right. No side is smart and the other dumb.
I'm not saying anything. I'm repeating what Gruber said. I didn't say anything at all about the right. You bring that up, probably as an obfuscation ... same tactic that Gruber says he used on us stupid people. It didn't work on me then, and it won't work on me now.
Whether you think politicians lie is not the issue. Whether you have the same doctor is not the point. What you consider your insurance to be is not the point. Whether you lean left is not the point.
The point is what your leader thinks of you, assumed about you, in order to gain support for legislation. He damn near wrote the law, and he chose to lie about it, counting on your stupidity (his thought, not mine).
The point is whether or not you're OK with having been knowingly lied to in order to have this legislation pass.
The point is, you said you thoughtfully considered the bill, yet arrived at opposite conclusions of those who wrote it ... which begs the question, how could you have been so wrong?
Quote: MrWarmth
The point is whether or not you're OK with having been knowingly lied to in order to have this legislation pass.
The point is, you said you thoughtfully considered the bill, yet arrived at opposite conclusions of those who wrote it ... which begs the question, how could you have been so wrong?
I support the ACA.
I know, your argument , to sum it up is, I am wrong and you are right. Doesn't leave me any wiggle room :-)
Despite all you have posted, all legislation is ying yang. Good comes with it, bad comes with it.
You weigh the ying yang, weigh the positives and negatives, I think the positives outweigh the negatives.
You simply concentrate on negative. Yea there are negatives. I hear you. But I look at the positives also.
Look, I have a good job, great healthcare. I've worked hard my whole life. No govt help.
I care for those less fortunate then myself.
Especially when it comes to healthcare.
Sure the system has problems. But its a step in the right direction. Thats why I support the ACA.
Some people lied. I still feel the same, its a step in the right direction.
I would like to hear some solutions from you.
Quote: terapinedI support the ACA.
I know, your argument , to sum it up is, I am wrong and you are right. Doesn't leave me any wiggle room :-)
Despite all you have posted, all legislation is ying yang. Good comes with it, bad comes with it.
You weigh the ying yang, weigh the positives and negatives, I think the positives outweigh the negatives.
You simply concentrate on negative. Yea there are negatives. I hear you. But I look at the positives also.
Look, I have a good job, great healthcare. I've worked hard my whole life. No govt help.
I care for those less fortunate then myself.
Especially when it comes to healthcare.
Sure the system has problems. But its a step in the right direction. Thats why I support the ACA.
Some people lied. I still feel the same, its a step in the right direction.
I would like to hear some solutions from you.
My argument is, your leaders think you're stupid, and admitted that they think so. You said you thoughtfully considered Obamacare, yet you came to a different conclusion than its authors. You keep trying to point it back to me like I did something. I'm going to keep pointing you to your leaders. I concentrate on what your leaders said about you.
I care for those less fortunate than myself. I care that they have health care.
More expense and less choice and crushing government debt is a "step in the right direction"? I disagree. For all your talk about positives, you don't point any out, and instead (ironically, negatively) say that I focus only on negatives.
I think the first step in a solution is to tell the truth. I have long suspected that Obamacare supporters were lying. Now we know for sure that's the case. It appears Obamacare couldn't begin with even that first step.
Quote: MrWarmthMy argument is, your leaders think you're stupid, and admitted that they think so. You said you thoughtfully considered Obamacare, yet you came to a different conclusion than its authors. You keep trying to point it back to me like I did something. I'm going to keep pointing you to your leaders. I concentrate on what your leaders said about you.
I care for those less fortunate than myself. I care that they have health care.
More expense and less choice and crushing government debt is a "step in the right direction"? I disagree. For all your talk about positives, you don't point any out, and instead (ironically, negatively) say that I focus only on negatives.
I think the first step in a solution is to tell the truth. I have long suspected that Obamacare supporters were lying. Now we know for sure that's the case. It appears Obamacare couldn't begin with even that first step.
This is from an earlier post from BBB. Thanks BBB :-)
Quote: beachbumbabsThis is so not true. Consider below - these positive changes affect nearly all Americans.
As to Obamacare (specifically), premium rises nationwide look like this over the last 11 years, up to the point Obamacare takes over:
Projected amounts needed past to future as a percentage of income stabilize compared to past years.
This is what happens with Obamacare in place, with many savings skewed by how (and whether) the states implement:
ObamaCare Insurance Premium Rate Hikes Facts
• Many people are finding their Premiums rising at alarming rates. People with high-end plans may continue to see higher prices on their plans moving forward, while low to middle income Americans and employees will see an Average savings of 60% of their premiums due to subsidies, tax credits and up-front assistance. Customers in States utilizing rate review provisions who purchase marketplace insurance using premium tax credits will see the highest reduction in rates.
• Holding insurance companies accountable, the rate review provision and the 80/20 rule yielded an estimated $2.1 billion in savings in 2012 alone. However, this is very disproportionately from one State to the next, with many saving nothing and others saving tens of millions.
• The rate review provision has led to less requests for premium increases over 10% since the provision went into effect.
• In 2012 States like Washington and California have saved their constituents tens of millions of dollars by blocking or lowering rate increases, while others like Texas have saved only $2k via the Rate Review provision.
• 44 States and Washington D.C. have effective Rate Review programs. Montana, Wyoming, Arizona, Missouri, Arizona, Louisiana and Alabama do not. Virginia has a partial effective program.
• Some rate increases have made insurance unaffordable for Americans. Many of ObamaCare’s provisions associated with premium costs don’t start until 2014.
• Insurance companies have to disclose how funds are being spent. They must spend a minimum of 80% on healthcare or give consumers a rebate for the difference. This is known of the 80/20 rule and has saved Americans $1.1 Billion as of Sept., 2012.
• The rapid appeals provision lets you repeal any claim from insurance companies within days, giving customers legal standing to fight the appeal and helping to curb insurance premium costs.
• The Rate Review rules applies to new plans in the individual and small group markets. (If you are in a health plan that existed on March 23, 2010, your plan may be a grandfathered plan, which is exempt from the Rate Review rules.)
• Each state may have its own minimum premium increase that requires a review, based on the state’s unique premium trends, health care cost trends, and other factors.
• If your state doesn’t have a Rate Review program, or has a Rate Review program that is ineffective, the federal government will conduct Rate Reviews in your state.
• An estimated 13 million Americans have received rebates due to the 80/20 rule.
I know even with a second plan I am having to pay quite a bit more for my scrips, and I don't know why?
Last year almost everything got covered except a small co-pay, now I get refused for meds all the time, I am wondering why?
Imo, my "leaders" for lack of a better word view me exactly as they are instructed to view me by their financiers.Quote: MrWarmthQuote:What billionaires have to do with how you're viewed by your leaders, I don't see.
" What they see", is the comfort in herd ignorance, like buffalo, sheep or fish. I suffer from not being able to "unswallow" the Red Pill and, being able to be put back in the Matrix and "enjoy the steak".Quote:What you see in being played as a patsy and counted as ignorant, I don't see.
I think "my problem" is more with my blissfully ignorant fellow citizens then it is with greedy rulers [human nature] who believe they were made to lie down in green pastures and hope to sip the eternal milk and honey. That somehow each election cycle, are able to convince themselves of some new benevolent "leader" that will deliver them to the promised land. Cycle after cycle it doesn't change. Bread and circuses. The rich are right to think the people stupid, how else can it be explained on a graph how the real income of Americans has went down since the 60's, while the tax's for [Helmsley's] "little people" have continually went up, while their standard of living has went down. There is no other explanation, is there? Do you think the masses are tricked, bamboozled, faked out, hoodwinked, defrauded around the clock without noticing or doing anything about it is mere coincidence? jmhoQuote:Your problem is with your leaders and their philosophy.
Quote: MrWarmthI'm not sure why you stand in disagreement with those whom you would see in leadership like Gruber. Keyser isn't calling the democrat base low in IQ, he's repeating to you what your leaders think about you, and their utter reliance on it to pass Obamacare. If you support(-ed) it, then you're in this group - i.e., low IQ, ignorant, stupid, whatever - at least according to your leaders.
What billionaires have to do with how you're viewed by your leaders, I don't see. What you see in being played as a patsy and counted as ignorant, I don't see. But your problem isn't with billionaires or Republicans or with them reminding you of what your leaders think about you. Your problem is with your leaders and their philosophy. Take it up with them.
I am a non-voter. I believe objective third parties classify me as an independent, not as a democrat.
He's not repeating what democratic leaders think about their base. He's agreeing with another poster. What are you even talking about?
Quote: AZDuffmanSorry, I do not see that more billionaires are republicans. The opposite seems to be true in fact. At the least they back both sides and deal with whomever is in power.
Are you nuts? Everyone knows rich tend to be republican, poor tend to be democrat. It's no leap to assume there's an IQ gap. IQ generally has nothing to do with anything...the real idiots are the ones who vote against their interests, and that's never the very top (smartest) or the very bottom (dumbest).
Oh wait, I forgot. French fries are vegetables and democrats are the party of money.
Quote: SonuvabishI am a non-voter. I believe objective third parties classify me as an independent, not as a democrat.
He's not repeating what democratic leaders think about their base. He's agreeing with another poster. What are you even talking about?
You speak as if you watch news sources that either suppress or skim over the several Gruber statements. I can't make you not watch propaganda or open your eyes.
But hey, live and let live. You can be as great a fool as you wish. I'm not one to automatically think skepticism or cynicism is wise or profound, but I do know that if I am f****d in the ass by someone, it is wise to apply that knowledge to past and future suspicions.
But FWIW, the memes seems to neglect the fact that ratios have numerators AND denominators, the inflationary effects of QE, that wage and wealth differentials are increasing, that food stamp participation has multiplied, that a high DJIA = good times for all, that liberal methods are the only possible way, and that all liberal methods work without fail. Really, really simplistic and absent of thought. If you support policies that make the rich richer and the poor poorer, then I guess that's what liberalism is.
That certainly explains why the Democratic Party has quite consistently out-fund-raised and outspent the Republicans for quite a few years. Let's hear it for all those celebrity fund-raisers that the president deems more important than functioning of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.Quote: SonuvabishOh wait, I forgot. French fries are vegetables and democrats are the party of money.
I'm certainly not complaining about that. And we don't hear many liberals having a problem with that, either. As a matter of fact, right here we have seen praise for the performance of the stock market in the last six years while utter silence greets the numbers for, say, household income.Quote: MrWarmthIf you support policies that make the rich richer and the poor poorer, then I guess that's what liberalism is.
Quote: beachbumbabsWhat a twisted pile of nonsense in this thread. Please do continue to rabble-rouse and bullyrag among yourselves; I'll be somewhere else.
Okay...but, if you stop back by, tell us how you feel about the statements made by the Obamacare architect.
Quote: MrWarmthHe wasn't speaking from ignorance, he was speaking from arrogance.
Just found out Steve Jobs was arrogant possibly even considered customers stupid and hope everyone smashes their products.
The only thing that surprises me about the ACA so far (despite Gruber's assertions) was John Roberts deciding vote.
That's it.
Quote: MrWarmthYou speak as if you watch news sources that either suppress or skim over the several Gruber statements. I can't make you not watch propaganda or open your eyes.
I speak as if I don't vote, and as if Keyser's post was in direct agreement with an opinion expressed by another poster with no outside source. These are facts. You are going on about nonsense. You sound like a mix of Mel Gibson in Conspiracy Theory and Mel Gibson in the leaked verbal abuse of his girlfriend tapes.
Quote: SanchoPanzaThat certainly explains why the Democratic Party has quite consistently out-fund-raised and outspent the Republicans for quite a few years. Let's hear it for all those celebrity fund-raisers that the president deems more important than functioning of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
LOL. So one guy asserts french fries are vegetables, and another asserts that democrats are traditionally the party of the rich. And the OPs are serious. It's just funny to read things that.
Quote: beachbumbabsWhat a twisted pile of nonsense in this thread. Please do continue to rabble-rouse and bullyrag among yourselves; I'll be somewhere else.
Wait...are you specifically allowing bullying in this thread, thereby immunizing posters from suspension? If so, does that include harassment? What's your position on Michelle Obama being an idiot for not thinking Arby's curly fries are part of a well-balanced diet?
Quote: SonuvabishAre you nuts? Everyone knows rich tend to be republican, poor tend to be democrat. It's no leap to assume there's an IQ gap. IQ generally has nothing to do with anything...the real idiots are the ones who vote against their interests, and that's never the very top (smartest) or the very bottom (dumbest).
No, I am not nuts, I am informed. Perhaps you need to actually look at what goes on than believe some old cliche. Gates, Zukenberg, Soros, these are all liberal folks and they are hardly worried where their next meal is coming from. Hollywood celebs are well-off and are generally far to the left. Check the vote in Manhattan, lots of blue-blood money and lots of blue votes.
Quote:Oh wait, I forgot. French fries are vegetables <snip>
Yes, they are. Unless you want to somehow prove otherwise.
