Table Games Dying in Nevada?

Eliot Jacobson seems to think so. He has an article
on his site that spells doom and gloom for anything
but the casino staples of roulette, craps, and bac.

deleted

I only thing that is dying is the casinos giving you a good gamble. Just look at rules and HA's from even 10 years ago.

That's a very good article, but most of his are.

I find it very encouraging for the Inventors that Proprietary Table Games have fallen at the same rate, since 2007, as all Table Games. This means that:

1.) Some of the games are performing rather well.

2.) There are other games that have not necessarily performed that well, but the Nevada casinos (where American legalized gambling was born) want to be on the cutting edge, so the declines in Table Games/Revenue are not necessarily dissuading all of them from trying new things.

You'll also notice that proprietary Table Games are the only Table Games (with exception to Baccarat) which have more installs than they ever have at any point prior to 2005. This could be because there are more recent games and new variations, but I still find it encouraging that some casinos are still willing to invest dollars in their (desperate?) search for a hit. For what it is worth to the Inventors, if you can get it off the ground, your game might at least get a shot in live casino action.

Total Tables appear to be worse off than their lowest previous level in 1992. 1990-1992 seems to have been the steepest drop other than 2009-2010, does anyone know WTF happened in 90-92? I was pretty young at that time!!!

Blackjack Tables seem to be the ultimate leader in losing Tables. They've been on the decline since 2005, and are at their lowest point ever by far. It appears that BJ has lost some 550 Tables since 2007 compared to a total loss of a little over 500 traditional Tables (including BJ). Baccarat has picked up roughly 100 Tables since then, also counted amongst the Traditional Tables.

I'm not sure why the author is saying this about Craps, Craps lost about 6% of its tables since 2007, but that's not even close to the pace of other Table Games or of Blackjack alone. Furthermore, Roulette lost slightly over 4%, so it's not like the Craps Table losses are seriously outpacing Roulette.

I'd also be interested in how many casinos closed since 2007 vs. how many were opened, if anyone happens to know. The decline in Roulette and Craps Tables could be (mostly) a consequence of casinos closing, and nothing to do with their relative popularity, but I have no idea.

Presenting graphics like I did in my article always leads to unanswered questions. There is a lot to do with the data, so have at it.

I editorialized freely in my article and clearly some do not agree. I do not actually believe that blackjack or craps will be gone from casinos any time soon. However, traditional games that require extended periods to learn or have complex strategies are having challenges.

As for this statement:

Quote:

the recent trends for roulette and the carnival games look exactly the same on the graphs yet he says roulette is not declining and the carnival games are clearly declining...stupid.

I often say stupid things. I do not take offense. However, I edited my post to clarify my point.

Several factors at work, making a perfect storm effect on Table Games.

Wages are always rising and higher table limits drive away some customers.

New enhancements in slots, such as TIT0, penny slots, and video screens.

Demographics that are allowed customers to die off at table games without replacements.

Look around at your casino's. Where are the younger players? Sure as hell not at the BJ tables with higher limits and not a jackpot
in sight.

Craps and Roulette will join that downward spiral soon as more unmanned Electronic version gain popularity. On a recent Friday i saw an empty Roulette table, while 20 feet away a two sides Electronic version was crowded . People standing behind people as partners or hoping to get a seat.

The numbers in Blackhawk are screwed-up for Craps. Only average per table, not casino, is posted. Ameristar has 2 tables crowded

as can be on busy times. The Lodge and The Gilpin have a few players on busy times. Slow times they have 3 people on the payroll.

When Craps and Roulette were legalized a few years ago in Colorado, your favorite casino had to have one of each. Soon those will be replaced by Electronic tables.

Baccarat is a different animal. Several version such as Golden Baccarat are in Blackhawk. I rarely seen anyone playing, even at busy times. Baccarat has a special appeal, especially bending the cards to peek. Trapped in a poker room one snowy night a few years back with 7 Asian players. Someone mention Baccarat coming to Colorado and a stone rock female player got all excited. Even demonstrated how she loved to peek. Then someone said it would not be a live game. That was the end of the discussion among her and other recently excited players.

Quote: Mission146

Total Tables appear to be worse off than their lowest previous level in 1992. 1990-1992 seems to have been the steepest drop other than 2009-2010, does anyone know WTF happened in 90-92? I was pretty young at that time!!!

There was another housing bust, at least in CA.......1988 to late 1989, people were camping out for new house or better yet, paying someone to camp out for them in line ($50/day) at new housing developments so they could get in on the release of the next phase of homes.

By October of 1991, when we bought our first house in CA, market was down 15-20% from the highs in 1989 and then dropped another 20% between 1991 to mid 1994. In our neighborhood, prices bottomed around 94-95 and since then prices went up.......sometimes quickly and sometimes slowly through 2005-06....then the funny money ran out and you know what has happened since 2007.

I think table games are suffering right now for a variety of reasons. Anyone can put a bill in a machine and play and not be embarassed or have to "learn how to play". You need someone to show you how to play a table game. Craps is in real trouble long term. If my Dad didn't teach me how to play, I don't think I would have learned the game on my own. BJ.....people yelling at you when you "took their card" or worse the "dealers bust card".....that is not a game at which a beginner is made to feel comfortable.

Three Card Poker is perfection for a new game.....it is easy, just play a hand that looks good and you don't affect anyone else's hand. Is it any wonder the game is still a staple. Baccarat is gaining because of the Asian culture and you don't have to learn anything to play it perfectly. Roulette is the same way....how do you play it incorrectly if you stay off the "basket bet"?

I am convinced that a new game better be intuitive to learn, easy to play, keep players from interferring with each others hands in order to have a chance of gaining acceptance. If it is a variant or what is already on the floor, it better be way better than the established alternative it is trying to displace either from a player or a casino standpoint.....preferably both.

Quote: teliot

I do not actually believe that blackjack or craps will be gone from casinos any time soon. However, traditional games that require extended periods to learn or have complex strategies are having challenges.

If we look at annual statistics at the peak of the market vs today (for just Vegas strip) we see that full size Baccarat is the only table game to increase. The traditional games are all down in revenue. Statistics show revenue in the past 12 months.

11/01/06 TO 10/31/07
TWENTY-ONE |$1,078,626 |
CRAPS |$318,855 |
ROULETTE |$303,385 |
BACCARAT |$970,726 |
MINI-BACCARAT |$125,584|
Other TABLE GAMES |$537,553.00)
Total TABLE GAMES $3,334,729

08/01/11 TO 07/31/12
TWENTY-ONE | $743,515|
CRAPS |$285,336 |
ROULETTE | $286,158|
BACCARAT | $1,355,607 |
MINI-BACCARAT | $65,109|
Other TABLE GAMES |$448,157.00|
Total TABLE GAMES $3,183,882

While table games as a whole (including baccarat) are down $150M, Baccarat is up $385M.

In the same period slots dropped from $3.51 billion down $2.92 billion (down almost $600M).

>Demographics that are allowed customers to die off at table games without replacements.
Well they don't have to actually die off. I know one former lawyer, Judge and businessman who played craps in his youth but switched to slot machines as he aged. In general though I agree... its partly a demographics change.

>Look around at your casino's.
>Where are the younger players? Sure as hell not at the BJ tables with higher limits and not a jackpot in sight.
No. The younger players are in the concerts, nightclubs and sushi lounges .... and they come in later and play high denomination slots that offer "humungous payoffs". If they play Blackjack, its Video Blackjack because that is their generation. Electronic interaction and fantasy characters. Its their lifestyle. Ain't no one gonna get them welded to a slow-play Blackjack table with a real human being running it instead of an Avatar named Mistress of Blood.

Quote: teliot

...

I just noticed your post about Four Card Poker's Bad Beat Bonus side bet. It's good to see you came up with the same results I did.

There will always be table games because there
will always be a demand for them. Roulette will
stay because of its high HE. Craps will stay because
it has so many fans, the same for bac. As far as
the other games, who knows. But it won't happen
overnight or in the next 20 years.

Paradigm,

Thank you for your answer which makes absolute sense, especially considering that California has been a big source of Vegas traffic historically.

I have to admit that I am confused by people not wanting to learn new games. If it did not require extensive travel, I would try every game there is at least once, mainly to see what the hook is!!! I suppose Baccarat is one exception, I don't think I will ever sit down at a Baccarat Table as long as I live, the behavior of the players is too strange and unpredictable. I've watched on the rare opportunities I've had in which I've been in a casino with the game, but never played.

I agree with your opinion of 3CP. You've got that one right, too, people just play a hand if it, "Looks good," increases the HE, but it's simple and nobody else at the table really cares what they do. The same applies for Roulette, of course.

Quote: teliot

Presenting graphics like I did in my article always leads to unanswered questions. There is a lot to do with the data, so have at it. However, traditional games that require extended periods to learn or have complex strategies are having challenges.

One of the metrics I look at is the change in revenue on the Vegas Strip since the peak period just before the recession. Clearly Baccarat is the big Kahuna in gaming. While the foreign venues have now sucked out most of the seasoned Asian player, it is clear that Vegas is attracting more of them than in the past. Mini-baccarat is such a bust, that it is also clear that the mathematics of the low house edge has nothing to do with the popularity of the game. If so, then MB would be improving as well.

The "other table games" are clearly losing ground more than roulette and craps, so the OP's basic assumption seems correct.

But the big bust has been blackjack. I have noted in the past, that blackjack started going downhill far before any other table game or slot machines. I theorized that since it is the most commonly played table game, that players were more nervous about their money, and were drifting toward slot machines. People who play roulette and craps are often more old school and devoted to their game. Advantage Players probably aren't statistically significant in revenue calculation.

BACCARAT |39.6%
ROULETTE |-5.7%
CRAPS |-10.5%
OTHER TABLE GAMES|-16.6%
TWENTY-ONE|-31.1%
MINI-BACCARAT|-48.2%
Total TABLE GAMES|-4.5%

Only $1 in $6 to $7 of revenue earned in table games falls into the category of OTHER TABLE GAMES.
Baccarat (MIDI or REGULAR) is up to 42% of all table game revenue.

Slots have dropped -16.8% over the same time period (about the same as OTHER TABLE GAMES).

Quote: pacomartin

If we look at annual statistics at the peak of the market vs today (for just Vegas strip) we see that full size Baccarat is the only table game to increase. The traditional games are all down in revenue. Statistics show revenue in the past 12 months.

11/01/06 TO 10/31/07
TWENTY-ONE |$1,078,626 |
CRAPS |$318,855 |
ROULETTE |$303,385 |
BACCARAT |$970,726 |
MINI-BACCARAT |$125,584|
Other TABLE GAMES |$537,553.00)
Total TABLE GAMES $3,334,729

08/01/11 TO 07/31/12
TWENTY-ONE | $743,515|
CRAPS |$285,336 |
ROULETTE | $286,158|
BACCARAT | $1,355,607 |
MINI-BACCARAT | $65,109|

Other TABLE GAMES |$448,157.00|
Total TABLE GAMES $3,183,882

While table games as a whole (including baccarat) are down $150M, Baccarat is up $385M.

In the same period slots dropeed from $3.51 billion down $2.92 billion (down almost $600M).

Blackjack -31.1%
Craps -10.5%
Roulette -5.7%
Baccarat +39.6%
Mini-Baccarat -48.2%
Other -16.6%
TOTAL -4.5%

Slots: -16.8%

Meaning:

BJ

From 2006-2007 (just using the bare eyeball) Blackjack has dropped about 12.8% of its Tables as BJ Revenues have fallen 31.1%. In order for Blackjack revenues to remain in line with number of Tables, they would have had to close 2.49x more Tables than they actually did. Further, if BJ had closed Tables in a perfectly-aligned way with the decline in revenue, they would have about 3,200 Tables currently as opposed to 4,100.

Basically, Blackjack is even worse off than the drops in # of Tables suggest. Much worse off.

Craps

From 2006-2007 Craps has dropped about 6% of its Tables compared to a 10.5% loss in revenue. Craps should theoretically have closed 1.75x more Tables in accordance with the revenue decline to be perfectly-aligned, but I suspect the discrepancy may be due to casinos having only one Craps Table (and declining Craps revenue) and deciding not to close their sole Craps Table which was also their sole Craps Table in 2006-2007. In effect, though, you would have about 374 Craps Tables as opposed to 390.

Compared to BJ, Slots, Mini-Bacc and OTHER, Craps is actually holding up fairly well. Further, when we are talking about 16 (more) theoretical Tables less than actual Tables, I personally believe that supports my, "Casinos with one Table," theory.

Roulette

Roulette has lost less than any of them at -5.7% compared to about 4% less Tables. Sane theory as Craps. Casinos with one Roulette Table, kept it open.

Baccarat

Baccarat is kicking ass at 39.6% positive revenue. In fact, if we were to disclude Baccarat from the TOTAL:

[(3,183,882 - $1,355,607) / ($3,334,729 -970726)]-1 = x

[1828275/2364003] - 1 = x

.773 - 1 = -22.7%

We see that Tables lose 22.7% of revenue without Baccarat as opposed to a loss of 4.5% given the Baccarat gains. IOW, Baccarat is carrying these places!!!

Interestingly, the increase in Baccarat Tables has only been 34%, however, this could be due to casinos who previously did not have Baccarat and simply added the game to their repetoire. Theoretically, for what it's worth, they should have added about 14% more Tables over that time period, which would be about 35 more Tables than current.

Mini-Baccarat and Others

Mini-Baccarat has failed so epically in recent years as to not merit discussion. Furthermore, the article does not have a seperate graph for Mini-Bacc, whereas, this data counts seperately for the game, so that really screws up any comparison.

ARTICLE

Before I continue, would Mini-Bacc have fallen under traditional Table games or Proprietary Table Games in the article? It's pretty relevant in order for me to be able to discuss, "Other Table Games," v. "Proprietary Table Games."

CONCLUSION

I think the article may be right that BJ as we know it could certainly be at-risk, at least in Nevada. This is for a number of reasons:

1.) I think they are losing $20 to save $1 for all the casinos that have instituted bad BJ Rules for the player. For every AP out there, let's face it, there are probably at least ten hopefuls with a decent bankroll that think they can be BJ AP's. I would tend to believe such hopefuls lose more money than the casual player in their efforts, because even they know that variance creates losses, even when playing at an advantage. They think they are playing at an advantage, but really, they're just chasing losses...

2.) Blackjack still leads all games with exception to Baccarat and Slots. I'm almost inclined to say that the availability of Table Games, in general, in the United States has contributed to the decline in revenue, except, it seems especially disproportionate for Blackjack compared to other games. This could be attributed to the Card Rooms in California, a state from which Nevada has traditionally gotten much of its revenue.

3.) Video Blackjack, as has been stated prior to this post.

4.) I maintain that Craps is basically doing fine. It has lost less revenue than slot machines, I just happen to think that it is a game with a very, "Cult-like," following, just the Cult happens to be large. Interestingly, Roulette has overtaken craps slightly in overall revenue, but again, I think that's one game that you either play or do not play...and as has been stated...Roulette is much easier.

Quote: pacomartin

BACCARAT |39.6%
ROULETTE |-5.7%
CRAPS |-10.5%
OTHER TABLE GAMES|-16.6%
TWENTY-ONE|-31.1%
MINI-BACCARAT|-48.2%
Total TABLE GAMES|-4.5%

I totally did not steal those percentages, I think we were posting at the same time.

Quote: pacomartin

Slots have dropped -16.8% over the same time period (about the same as OTHER TABLE GAMES).

A fair comparison to tables relative to my specific approach would be to count the number of physical slot machines. I get the following for the year/year report ending July of each year:

2012: 161,743 machines
2011: 165,338 machines
2010: 168,281 machines
2009: 171,204 machines
2008: 172,447 machines
2007: 176,312 machines
2006: 177,381 machines
2005: 178,022 machines
2004: 181,409 machines

The net loss over the last 5 years (2007-2012) is 8.26%. I believe some of this loss is due to the increasing real estate taken up by community bonus games and some of the "rapid" and "table master" games.

I am fairly confident that I will probably stop going to casinos, if the craps tables are removed. And I am one that does not care for the electronic versions. I am very comfortable with technology, but I just felt isolated when watching the electronic version.
Cherokee has been here for 11 years now, and I have never been, because they had no craps game.

paco, I asked on what chart PGP would be located... I thought traditional, not knowing the full meaning of proprietary. I wasn't thinking about the rules, but I guess that would make PGP proprietary..

Let me put more detail. By including race and book in the OTHER category, I may have mislead people. We are comparing the year that ended October 2007 (peak earning) with the year ending July 2012

You could argue that traditional games on the strip went down -2.2% while proprietary games went down -23.65%, but that is a little misleading. For traditional games Baccarat made up the difference for the other games.


By Revenue (on the strip)

CARD GAMES -19.7%

TWENTY-ONE -31.1%
CRAPS -10.5%
ROULETTE -5.7%
BACCARAT +39.6%
KENO -46.6%
BINGO +74.8%
PAI GOW -60.6%
RACE BOOK -45.7%
SPORTS POOL -16.5%

3-CARD POKER -3.1%
MINI-BACCARAT -48.2%
LET IT RIDE -27.5%
OTHER GAMES -2.4%
PAI GOW POKER -15.2%

TOTAL GAMES -4.5% (Not including Card Games)

TOTAL SLOT MACHINES -16.9%

By Revenue (off the strip, rest of Clark County & rest of Nevada )
CARD GAMES -30.6%

TWENTY-ONE -33.5%
CRAPS -28.2%
ROULETTE -30.8%
BACCARAT -48.1%
KENO -37.9%
BINGO +66.1%
PAI GOW -37.0%
RACE BOOK -38.1%
SPORTS POOL +0.6%

3-CARD POKER -25.6%
MINI-BACCARAT -19.2%
LET IT RIDE -28.3%
PAI GOW POKER -22.6%
OTHER GAMES -26.3%

TOTAL GAMES -27.8%

TOTAL SLOT MACHINES -21.3%

When you get off strip, everything is down but Sports.

The decline in the number of slot machines since 2004 is surprising to me. It appears that the loss is around 11% in the number of machines. I understand what teliot has indicated that some of the loss may be due to electronic table games taking some of that real estate or bigger bonus machines, but it does seem to point to an overall decrease in gambling as a whole.

How does the number of slots decrease in NV when properties such as Wynn ('05), Palazzo ('08), Encore ('08), Aria ('09) and the Cosmopolitan ('10) are being added to the NV gambling landscape. Those are significant additions of casino floor space in total and to see the number of machines decrease during that period of casino expansion indicates something bigger is going on.

I think the NV numbers (both table games & slots) may be more impacted than we are considering for the shift in that time period away from gaming of any kind and towards the dining/night club/"residence shows"/etc. experience that Nevada is using to differentiate itself from the regional gaming offerings around the country.

Has there been a significant decrease in the number of square feet of "casino space" over that '04 - '12 time period? Or there is some other explanation for the slot decrease that I am missing to explain what has happened to slot count. Whatever it is must then also be factored in to the decrease in overall table game count.

It appears that total table game count between '04 and '12 was down, less as a percentage, than the drop in slots, unless I am not reading the charts correctly (which may be the case).

I think high gas prices may have impacted some small town places that were largely truck stop type roadside bars that went out of business.

Quote: Paradigm

The decline in the number of slot machines since 2004 is surprising to me.

Could it have something to do with explosion of
1 cent machines and the fact that people play
them for far longer than other slots? I see people
sitting at those things for an hour, my wife is
one of them.

Quote: Paradigm

The decline in the number of slot machines since 2004 is surprising to me. It appears that the loss is around 11% in the number of machines. I understand what teliot has indicated that some of the loss may be due to electronic table games taking some of that real estate or bigger bonus machines, but it does seem to point to an overall decrease in gambling as a whole.

I don't think that real estate for gamlbing devices has anything to do with it. A number of casinos simply took out slot machines without putting anything in their place. They widened walkways, and added more bars on the casino floor.

Basically many of the older casinos who decades ago had crammed in as many slot machines that could fit simply reduced the number of machines. They were tired of paying the fees, and the cost of keeping up the machines. With the spread of slots around the country, people were valuing a little more of an uncluttered look.

El Cortez was a prime example. They reduced the number of machines by almost 50% and revenue actually went up.

Possibly the number of expensive penny machines had something to do with it. The games are a little more addictive now. Before people would bounce from machine to machine that had only slight differences. Also the cost of a machine has increased dramatically. One factor is simply the capital outlay.

Quote: Paradigm

The decline in the number of slot machines since 2004 is surprising to me.

Quote: EvenBob

Could it have something to do with explosion of
1 cent machines and the fact that people play
them for far longer than other slots? I see people
sitting at those things for an hour, my wife is
one of them.

I am not following the logic here.....the absolute number of machines is down, how does the "explosion of 1 cent machines" impact a decline in the total number of machines?

Oh, I think I get it based on what Paco followed up with......people just sit at one machine vs. bouncing around so same # of players means you need less machines if they just sit at one for extended timeframe.....which is what you said as well Bob.....sorry, early for me.

PacoMartin,

I find the Bingo Revenues fascinating, do you have any idea why Bingo should be performing so well?

Interesting stats, i'm very surprised the number of BJ tables has declined. They always seem so crowded to me. I've noticed the decline in slots in favor of more open floor plans for casinos. This reflects a broader trend in consumerism in my opinion. Newer big dept stores (target, wal-mart, macy's etc) have much more open space than they used to. The old retail model called for filling all available space with merchandise, so as not to waste valuable sq. footage. The newer model calls for a more "pleasant and friendly" shopping experience. Hence wider aisles, better lighting, less clutter in general. I think casinos are following that lead, because consumers are coming to expect it.

Dottys usually has a less crowded appearance.

How much of the drop can be attributed to California allowing its tribal casinos to offer house-dealt blackjack, so gamblers no longer need to make the trek up I-15, not to mention having to pay for a hotel room for one or two nights at inflated weekend prices, just to test out their latest counting system?

Reno sure blames every bankruptcy and every other malady known to man on the existence of California casinos that take away their customers. Might even be some truth in it. Its clear that gambling is no longer solely a "Vegas" thing. Nationwide there are a zillions of casinos that were simply not available years ago.

Quote: vendman1

The newer model calls for a more "pleasant and friendly" shopping experience. Hence wider aisles, better lighting, less clutter in general. I think casinos are following that lead, because consumers are coming to expect it.

Also when people were dressed up, it was probably more acceptable to be crowded. Nowadays you don't want to get to close to anyone.


I think I calculated that the Fremont had twice as many slot machines per square foot as The Plaza.

Quote: pacomartin

.

This has to be about 1960, looking at skirt length.
The low ceilings were terrible, made all the casinos
real smoky, and everybody smoked then. Look at
the craps table, there's no pit. The players are right
there next to the crew. Every man has a tie on, I
can't imagine gambling wearing a tie.

Is this Reno? Is it posed?

Quote: FleaStiff

Is this Reno? Is it posed?

It doesn't look posed at all. If you really examine it,
there are lots of different players represented and
nobody is smiling, which they would be in a posed
pic.

I just don't see the dying part. To me that means that in a relatively short period(say 10 years) there will not be a single game over than the 3 he mentioned. Does anyone truly believe this?

I know I will lose interest in gambling(or at least a portion of my bankroll) if they remove all the games other than those 3. I have to believe I am not alone in this. I also find it hard to believe that adding 4 more slots instead of that BJ table will actually create an increase in slot revenue.

Quote: soulhunt79

I know I will lose interest in gambling(or at least a portion of my bankroll) if they remove all the games other than those 3. I have to believe I am not alone in this.

I also find it hard to believe that adding 4 more slots instead of that BJ table will actually create an increase in slot revenue.

With the exception of 3-card poker the proprietary games constitute a small percentage of table game revenue.

The traditional 3 (21, craps, roulette) constitute 68.78% of the off strip table game revenue in Nevada, and 42.65% of the Strip Revenue (the three games are just below Baccarat).

I'm sure the other games won't completely vanish. There is always some interest in playing a different game. But it is clearly getting even harder to introduce a new game.


STRIP - OFFSTRIP NEVADA
24.11% 42.09% TWENTY-ONE
9.25% 18.29% CRAPS
9.28% 8.40% ROULETTE
3.73% 7.13% 3-CARD POKER
43.96% 0.49% BACCARAT
2.11% 2.85% MINI-BACCARAT
0.21% 4.07% KENO
0.04% 0.96% BINGO
0.93% 2.83% LET IT RIDE
0.40% 0.63% PAI GOW
2.13% 6.90% PAI GOW POKER


3.84% 5.37% OTHER GAMES
100.00% 100.00% TOTAL GAMES

Quote: FleaStiff

Is this Reno? Is it posed?

The photo is from the Flamingo Hotel in Vegas, not sure of the year.

" I just don't see the dying part. To me that means that in a relatively short period(say 10 years) there will not be a single game over than the 3 he mentioned. Does anyone truly believe this? "

I believe it will be a slow, lingering death in Nevada. But much quicker in smaller locaties and in casino's that do not exist today.

Quote: buzzpaff

" I just don't see the dying part. To me that means that in a relatively short period(say 10 years) there will not be a single game over than the 3 he mentioned. Does anyone truly believe this? "
.

Slots are the big money makers and the stats
don't lie. Roulette and BJ is all we need anyway..

Quote: EvenBob

Slots are the big money makers and the stats don't lie.

There is this book: How to Lie with Statistics. And there is the famous saying popularized by Mark Twain: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Quote: EvenBob

Roulette and BJ is all we need anyway..

Ellis Island has one of the smallest pits in Vegas, and it has three games, 5 BJ tables, 1 roulette, and 1 craps table.

El Cortez has 2 craps, 4 roulette, 8 blackjack, 1 Keno, 1 Mini-Bacc, 1 Pai-Gow, and 3 poker tables that will operate until Jackie G. dies. I think he still plays every day.

Usually if you have 12 tables they like to throw in one game of Let it Ride, 3 Card Poker, Mini-Bacc, or Pai-Gow (usually poker).

Quote: EvenBob

Roulette and BJ is all we need anyway..

SHFL's proprietary table game revenue of $12.4M last quarter, an all time high, would seem to indicate otherwise.

And while SMI is the 800 lb gorilla in the room, there are other distributors.

Quote: EvenBob

Slots are the big money makers and the stats don't lie. Roulette and BJ is all we need anyway..

The politicians are fond of this "It takes a village" nonsense phrase. However, I think any "casino" does require a mixture of some sort. Face it, pure Bingo doesn't really cut it. The casinos may start out as bingo joints but once that starts the race is on. Today we have "Racinos" some sort of attempt to politically and economically link horse racing with other forms of gambling.

We have hordes of housewives being bused in to casinos many of whom never go near anything but a slot machine or a free lunch. Often there are married couples who arrive at a casino ... and immediately split up according to interests, abilities or courage.

The "take" of a Bingo room varies. Odd hours its usually about a one percent loss for the casino. Even hours the Bingo action shifts to the slot machines.

In a similar manner, the "take" of any particular table game shifts as special events take place, meetings are arranged, gambling decisions are made as part of a social group, groups ebb and flow and occasionally surge in various directions along the casino floor. Special Events take place and draw particular crowds or segments of the market.

Some people seem rooted in place, others trek all over the casino and all over town. Just look at the food service. Casinos cater to everyone from a snack to a fancy dinner to a buffet trough to room service. Its the same way with gambling. Trends change but there are always whims that must be satisfied.

Slots were originally looked down on by "real gamblers" ... but the green eye shade types changed those opinions over time. Machines were fairly cheap, never went on strike and started sprouting everywhere. Demographics change. Vegas changed. I don't think you can find any sawdust, whiskey and onions places anymore in Vegas, but they used to all be that way.

MBA types seem to focus on yield and often declare some table as too expensive. Yet woe betide the casino who routinely accepts such a narrow focus. Look at what happened when Margaritavile (Biloxi) tried to dispense with Freeplay. The architect of that had great experience in the industry but is now "following other interests".

Look around a casino and its clear that gamblers do indeed age and the youngsters seem to seek out some sort of players console and avatar and video action, but its not universal. One UCLA frat rat spent his Los Angeles time at computer games and pin ball machines, but his Vegas time at the Venetian slot tables. Upon turning 21 the Floor Man processed his birth certificate and congratulated him on his Players Card that was a style at least three years old. The student was a frat rat who developed video games but in Vegas, he shot craps instead of being in the digital age. Trends change.

It used to be "Vegas" then it became Vegas or Atlantic City. Now its pretty much Anywhere. The nature of the experience changes but even Indian casinos seem to sprouting Spas and Event Centers and Hotels making the trek to Mecca Vegas less meaningful.

In the fifties and sixties, craps tables were ripped out for Blackjack tables. Gamblers cried, Green Eye Shaders were enthralled. Now it seems Blackjack tables are under some sort of pressure, but people still arrive with money in their pockets and there will always be someone there to take it from them, even if that "someone" is a digital avatar.

Good article by Eliot on table games at Caesars;

Bring back Faro.

Hell, bring back one horse casinos, too.

Quote: EvenBob

Good article by Eliot on table games at Caesars

Thanks. Here is the excel file I created for their database: Harrah's Table Games Data Base

Way back Holiday Inns experimented with room design and selected optimal sizing.
Successor corporate entities selected optimal gamblers: Yes, the table game mix is a bit heavy on the proprietary games. Thats not innovative, they made the decision and stuck to it. They don't want whales they don't want sharp players. Perhaps it would be excessive to say that they want "an average sheep" but perhaps thats really quite accurate.

Eliot found some more good stuff, a list of approved table games
in NV and elsewhere.

The real question is, how many of them are actually
in casinos?

Legally approved does not mean actually installed anywhere. Often an additional license fee has to be paid to have a game actually be installed. Keno rooms have been disappearing and sometimes keno is played in a room with one seat since the casino really makes the game available electronically. For various economic reasons the game is disappearing but its still legal and only a bit more likely than Faro to suddenly blossom back to popularity.