rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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November 29th, 2012 at 2:25:52 PM permalink
Quote: RaleighCraps

I think this is a winning attitude. Your content has to be up to date.
If I drive 500 miles to play a game that your site says is at that casino, and it turns out the casino pulled it last week, well I am unlucky.
But, if I drive 500 miles to play a game, and it turns out the casino pulled it last year, I will never trust your site for anything other than basics, like mileage, and I can get that from Google just as easily.



I agree. Please clearly state when information is updated. Casino city and the World Casino Directory have software in place that makes it look like each listing is updated daily. We all know that's not the case, nor should that be the customer's expectation. If the last update for a casino is 1 week old, I'll trust it. If it's a year old, then it's good for the basics but I'll still call the casino or check their website (which is probably also out of date - who are we kidding...) about what is currently offered.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
TheBigPaybak
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November 29th, 2012 at 2:56:33 PM permalink
Quote: RaleighCraps

I think this is a winning attitude. Your content has to be up to date.
If I drive 500 miles to play a game that your site says is at that casino, and it turns out the casino pulled it last week, well I am unlucky.
But, if I drive 500 miles to play a game, and it turns out the casino pulled it last year, I will never trust your site for anything other than basics, like mileage, and I can get that from Google just as easily.
I think you have a good strategy.
Start with simple content.
Show the 'promise' of what you can achieve.
Get traffic coming to the site.
At this point, you can start to demonstrate to the casinos WHY they need to, and should want to, work with your site.
Ideally, you get a few casinos to take part, and as soon as their competitor in market casinos get wind that a casino is getting an advantage from your site, you will have them beating your door down.



This is what we're aiming for- to make an easy-to-use resource that people will love and use. If we can do that, there are ways we can leverage that and make the site profitable. We'll have markers that indicate the "freshness" of particular data and we'll really try hard to keep things simple and not annoy people- so we don't get comments like these comments with regard to Facebook:
http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/facebook-annoys-users-and-2-heavily-traded-shares-not-to-miss.html/


Quote: RaleighCraps


You are off to a good looking start.

Most of the casino websites are not even 'accurate'. As an example, try and find a casino site that will tell you what their current craps rules are, or how many craps tables they have, or in some cases, if they even have craps! All of this info seems to be unimportant to the casino webmasters. They keep the room rates up dated and the headliners. That is about it.



Correct, in fact I'd go a step further and say most casino websites are really poor on a number of levels. Now of course we can help them solve that problem... :)
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
TheBigPaybak
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November 29th, 2012 at 2:58:24 PM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

Quote: RaleighCraps

I think this is a winning attitude. Your content has to be up to date.
If I drive 500 miles to play a game that your site says is at that casino, and it turns out the casino pulled it last week, well I am unlucky.
But, if I drive 500 miles to play a game, and it turns out the casino pulled it last year, I will never trust your site for anything other than basics, like mileage, and I can get that from Google just as easily.



I agree. Please clearly state when information is updated. Casino city and the World Casino Directory have software in place that makes it look like each listing is updated daily. We all know that's not the case, nor should that be the customer's expectation. If the last update for a casino is 1 week old, I'll trust it. If it's a year old, then it's good for the basics but I'll still call the casino or check their website (which is probably also out of date - who are we kidding...) about what is currently offered.



Right, and many places do that as it may help them with Google, although our goal, first and foremost, is to provide the most accurate resource possible.

When we get the "casino detail" page ready for review, I'll post a link and we can see where any "freshness" issues may come into play.
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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November 29th, 2012 at 3:02:33 PM permalink
Quote: TheBigPaybak


Right, and many places do that as it may help them with Google, although our goal, first and foremost, is to provide the most accurate resource possible.



Yaaaaaay! My out-of-date embarrassingly wrong page is at the top of google searches! :-)

There's got to be a behind-the-scenes way of "refreshing" the pages without publishing the timestamp, isn't there? Even if the visible "last updated" field is manual, I think that'd be ok.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
RaleighCraps
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November 29th, 2012 at 4:33:30 PM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

Yaaaaaay! My out-of-date embarrassingly wrong page is at the top of google searches! :-)

There's got to be a behind-the-scenes way of "refreshing" the pages without publishing the timestamp, isn't there? Even if the visible "last updated" field is manual, I think that'd be ok.



I think this is an important detail that you would want to have in your design concept. Each content for a casino should have a date stamp, as to when the content was entered. I would assume your design is driven by a database, and the web page will basically be queries to display the content? I have done this for other sites, since it is easy to then give non programmers the ability to enter information in the database, and the website code itself doesn't actual need to be updated to remain current.
The date of the content entry should be displayed, with that content.
That way, even if I trust your site 100%, if I see data that is 1 year old, I can decide if I should verify the data before I react to it.
If I trust your site, and data is a week old, it is a no-brainer. I don't need to validate, I can just react to that data.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
TheBigPaybak
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November 29th, 2012 at 7:27:21 PM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

Yaaaaaay! My out-of-date embarrassingly wrong page is at the top of google searches! :-)

There's got to be a behind-the-scenes way of "refreshing" the pages without publishing the timestamp, isn't there? Even if the visible "last updated" field is manual, I think that'd be ok.



There should be, and while it's not my direct area of expertise, I know a lot of companies attempt to make their pages look "newer" than they really are as they think it helps them. And it may, if they do it the right way, although in the overall scheme of things, it's just another tactic and wouldn't be a deciding factor.
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
TheBigPaybak
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November 29th, 2012 at 7:31:13 PM permalink
Quote: RaleighCraps

I think this is an important detail that you would want to have in your design concept. Each content for a casino should have a date stamp, as to when the content was entered. I would assume your design is driven by a database, and the web page will basically be queries to display the content? I have done this for other sites, since it is easy to then give non programmers the ability to enter information in the database, and the website code itself doesn't actual need to be updated to remain current.
The date of the content entry should be displayed, with that content.
That way, even if I trust your site 100%, if I see data that is 1 year old, I can decide if I should verify the data before I react to it.
If I trust your site, and data is a week old, it is a no-brainer. I don't need to validate, I can just react to that data.



Yes, everything will be built from a database.

What will be part of the challenge is that certain information can be verified easier than other information, and all information won't be able to be verified at any one particular time most likely. Fun stuff, but as things progress, hopefully we'll be able to come up with a plan that can give people confidence.
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
RaleighCraps
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November 29th, 2012 at 8:57:27 PM permalink
Quote: TheBigPaybak

Yes, everything will be built from a database.

What will be part of the challenge is that certain information can be verified easier than other information, and all information won't be able to be verified at any one particular time most likely. Fun stuff, but as things progress, hopefully we'll be able to come up with a plan that can give people confidence.



I would think you would want to think through this before design begins, since if you design it right from the start, you can keep it or drop it as desired later.

I would think you might want to have major sections of a casino you are interested in. I would think each major section would want to have a date associated with when the data was collected. As an example:

Casino X : 2409 Sunset Way, Carson City, KS [added: 07/01/2010]
Casino X : Hours of Operation on Casino Floor - 24 x7 [confirmed: 11/29/2012]
Casino X : Eight Craps Tables - At least one table 24x7 [confirmed: 07/01/2011]
Casino X : 250 Slots..............

You wouldn't need to decide what your categories are right now, but you would need to decide on the format, and how you want to display a date. I would suggest a date by content category, since some data is pretty solid, like address, and hours of operation. Others, like table game mix, will change, so it would be helpful to know when the info was added, or last confirmed.
This would also be useful if you decide to have your users help confirm the accuracy of the information on down the road, sort of like a Wiki.

I will be quiet now. :-) It's your money, so you get to build it how you want. :-D
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
FleaStiff
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November 29th, 2012 at 10:42:23 PM permalink
I've lost track... what was this database supposed to be used for?
TheBigPaybak
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November 30th, 2012 at 4:33:45 AM permalink
Quote: RaleighCraps

I would think you would want to think through this before design begins, since if you design it right from the start, you can keep it or drop it as desired later.

I would think you might want to have major sections of a casino you are interested in. I would think each major section would want to have a date associated with when the data was collected. As an example:

Casino X : 2409 Sunset Way, Carson City, KS [added: 07/01/2010]
Casino X : Hours of Operation on Casino Floor - 24 x7 [confirmed: 11/29/2012]
Casino X : Eight Craps Tables - At least one table 24x7 [confirmed: 07/01/2011]
Casino X : 250 Slots..............

You wouldn't need to decide what your categories are right now, but you would need to decide on the format, and how you want to display a date. I would suggest a date by content category, since some data is pretty solid, like address, and hours of operation. Others, like table game mix, will change, so it would be helpful to know when the info was added, or last confirmed.
This would also be useful if you decide to have your users help confirm the accuracy of the information on down the road, sort of like a Wiki.

I will be quiet now. :-) It's your money, so you get to build it how you want. :-D



No need for silence, how are good discussed then? :)

It's an interesting point, thank you for giving me something to consider!
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
TheBigPaybak
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November 30th, 2012 at 4:36:47 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

I've lost track... what was this database supposed to be used for?



The database would just be what stores all of the casino data- and what we've most recently been discussing is how to convey the "freshness" of this data and its associated challenges.
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
FleaStiff
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November 30th, 2012 at 5:57:15 AM permalink
Many casino web sites seem written by the advertising types and full of adjectives and photos of pretty girls, but in reality contain very little information about number of tables, hours of staffing, odds, rule variations or the like.

There is always a difference between what is offered in the high limit area and what is available in the main casino area.
TheBigPaybak
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November 30th, 2012 at 8:22:39 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Many casino web sites seem written by the advertising types and full of adjectives and photos of pretty girls, but in reality contain very little information about number of tables, hours of staffing, odds, rule variations or the like.

There is always a difference between what is offered in the high limit area and what is available in the main casino area.



Right, and then things get out of date rather quickly. It'll be interesting going forward, as online gaming becomes more mainstream, if casinos will take their web strategies a little more seriously- I tend to think they will.
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
TheBigPaybak
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January 15th, 2013 at 10:46:31 AM permalink
Hello All- the project continues and it's coming together!

Here are some design comps to give a feel for how things will look:

Home Page:
http://thebigpayback.com/comps/1.15/tbp_home1.jpg
http://thebigpayback.com/comps/1.15/tbp_home2.jpg

Search Pages:
http://thebigpayback.com/comps/1.15/tbp_search1.jpg
http://thebigpayback.com/comps/1.15/tbp_search2.jpg
http://thebigpayback.com/comps/1.15/tbp_search3.jpg

Detail Page:
http://thebigpayback.com/comps/1.15/tbp_details.jpg

For the home page, it'll be similar to what Bing does:
http://www.bing.com/

I think the "Detail" page isn't the best, but this needs to move forward. All comments welcome!
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
RaleighCraps
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January 15th, 2013 at 10:50:27 AM permalink
All of the pics display a Where do I play EZ Pai Gow? banner. Is Dan buying his way to more prominence ? :-)
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
TheBigPaybak
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January 15th, 2013 at 10:54:01 AM permalink
Quote: RaleighCraps

All of the pics display a Where do I play EZ Pai Gow? banner. Is Dan buying his way to more prominence ? :-)



Hah! I can say the folks at DEQ have been very supportive, so having a banner as such would be on us! I've yet to play EZ Pai Gow, although I'd like to some day!
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
DJTeddyBear
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January 15th, 2013 at 11:13:43 AM permalink
It looks good. It's starting to look like some of the bridal lead services I subscribe to (or, in most cases, used to subscribe to).

I dislike the ads for other casinso on the detail page. Once the user has arrived where he wants to be, stop distracting him with other destinations. If he wants others, he'll go back to the search page. That's one of the reasons I stopped advertising on some of the lead services.



Quote: TheBigPaybak

For the home page, it'll be similar to what Bing does:
http://www.bing.com/

I don't normally use Bing, and today it is doing something wierd related to the Pentagon. Is that a normal thins for Bing? Is that the type of thing you're talking about? Personally, I think it's distracting.


Quote: TheBigPaybak

I think the "Detail" page isn't the best, but this needs to move forward. All comments welcome!

The first time I saw the cherries icon for the slot machine, it looked like, um, something else. I suggest either getting rid of the leaf, or change the icon to 777. Similarly, the table games icon looks more like a racetrack, or poker table than a craps table (which is what I think you were going for). I took 2 minutes and designed this BJ table icon as a substitute:

http://djteddybear.com/images/bj_icon.JPG
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
TheBigPaybak
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January 15th, 2013 at 11:45:39 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

I dislike the ads for other casinso on the detail page. Once the user has arrived where he wants to be, stop distracting him with other destinations.

if we do keep any banners, they won't flicker or do anything obnoxious, and there would only be one or so. Point taken, though.


Quote: DJTeddyBear


I don't normally use Bing, and today it is doing something wierd related to the Pentagon. Is that a normal thins for Bing? Is that the type of thing you're talking about? Personally, I think it's distracting.



The main point being that the background image will fill your browser, like the background image on the Bing home page does. From the static image of our home page, it may not be clear to people how it will look when implemented, which is what I was trying to convey. Frankly, I didn't get it the first time I saw the design.

Quote: DJTeddyBear


The first time I saw the cherries icon for the slot machine, it looked like, um, something else.



Yikes! Not intended... :)

Quote: DJTeddyBear


I suggest either getting rid of the leaf, or change the icon to 777. Similarly, the table games icon looks more like a racetrack, or poker table than a craps table (which is what I think you were going for). I took 2 minutes and designed this BJ table icon as a substitute:
Admin note: removed image www.djteddybear.com/images/bj_icon.JPG



The whole page itself I'm not extremely happy with, but tweaks like these may help. Thanks for the feedback!
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
DJTeddyBear
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January 17th, 2013 at 6:05:32 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

... change the slot icon to 777.

I got inspired. Not the 777 thing I suggested, but here's a slot icon:

http://djteddybear.com/images/slot_icon.JPG
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
TheBigPaybak
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January 17th, 2013 at 7:42:27 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

I got inspired. Not the 777 thing I suggested, but here's a slot icon:
Admin note: removed image www.djteddybear.com/images/slot_icon.JPG



I like it, I'll pass along to our designer to see if it's compatible with the current icon set: we may have just used something off the shelf.
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
FleaStiff
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March 29th, 2013 at 2:10:34 PM permalink
Egad. That Detail Page seems annoyingly vague ...

I think you have to get away from general descriptions and puffery and just "give the facts".

Also end this discussion of pai gow and Asian dominoes... and yet you are not talking about Pai Gow TILES.

Craps entry:
Number of Tables/ Shifts/ Minimums/Odds. Thats it. None of this "Fast, exciting... Pass Line or Don't Pass". No cutesy photos of dice or craps tables with smiling players. A Comments section might be good but it would have to be one liners only such as "fast game on Friday" or "Trainee on Tuesday Morning last September".
TheBigPaybak
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March 29th, 2013 at 2:48:53 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Egad. That Detail Page seems annoyingly vague ...

I think you have to get away from general descriptions and puffery and just "give the facts".

Also end this discussion of pai gow and Asian dominoes... and yet you are not talking about Pai Gow TILES.

Craps entry:
Number of Tables/ Shifts/ Minimums/Odds. Thats it. None of this "Fast, exciting... Pass Line or Don't Pass". No cutesy photos of dice or craps tables with smiling players. A Comments section might be good but it would have to be one liners only such as "fast game on Friday" or "Trainee on Tuesday Morning last September".



I may have missed some other comments prior to this one, and when I tried to review, go the "malware" screen I described in another thread.

I will quickly say I'm not particularly happy with the "detail" page, although it's a start. Some amount of puffery is good for Google, so we need that.

I'm not sure what the discussion of "Pai Gow and Asian Dominoes" is.

At least for launch, we'll need to focus on what we can accurately tell people, which is sometimes hard as casinos changes things so frequently.
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
MonkeyMonkey
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March 30th, 2013 at 4:48:19 AM permalink
ETA to a soft launch where we'll be able to play with the real thing and give feedback?
TheBigPaybak
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March 30th, 2013 at 5:38:42 AM permalink
Quote: MonkeyMonkey

ETA to a soft launch where we'll be able to play with the real thing and give feedback?



I really hope within the next 30 to 60 days or so. HTML is now complete and about 100 hours have been spent on programming with about 500 hours spent on the project as a whole. The specification is also complete, so at this point we need to complete the programming along with some data acquisition. Like anything, it's gotten more complex as it's progressed, although we're pretty much locked down for "Phase 1".

Thanks for your interest!
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
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