Remember When

Quote: GenoDRPh

Quote: billryan

Robert Horrey has more rings than Michael Jordan, Kareem, or LeBron.

My friend Danny Green won titles on three different teams. Bill Russell only won titles with one team.

If I tell you Frank Ramsey has seven rings, do you think he was a great player or that he played for Bill Russell's Celtics?

Play a game: You are an NBA GM with the first pick in the draft. Boston calls you and offers you Sam and K.C.Jones for it. While you are thinking it over, the Knicks call and offer Clyde and Earl the Pearl. Which offer do you accept?
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Give me players who will win me championships, each and every time.
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Championships have a lot more luck involved in them. In the case of baseball, you play 162 games in the regular season to determine who's the best team in the division, then they play a 5 game series to determine who is the better of two teams. That doesn't hold up to much mathematical scrutiny.

Then, especially when you have long seasons, the team in the postseason is not the same team that played all of those regular season games. You could be the team that was winning at a record setting pace until half your pitching staff goes down with Tommy John. Or that could be your opponent. Luck.

I'm guessing AM isn't much of a baseball fan.

Quote: billryan

I'm guessing AM isn't much of a baseball fan.
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On the contrary, it's the only sport I really follow! And I even have an autographed Larsen-Berra photo up on the wall.

But that just reminds me of the luck element, especially in the postseason. Don Larsen was by no means a great pitcher and had gotten shelled a few games before, couldn't keep the ball over the plate, and then pitched a perfect game against the same team a few days later. What is that, if not luck in the extreme?

Quote: billryan

Quote: GenoDRPh

Quote: billryan

Robert Horrey has more rings than Michael Jordan, Kareem, or LeBron.

My friend Danny Green won titles on three different teams. Bill Russell only won titles with one team.

If I tell you Frank Ramsey has seven rings, do you think he was a great player or that he played for Bill Russell's Celtics?

Play a game: You are an NBA GM with the first pick in the draft. Boston calls you and offers you Sam and K.C.Jones for it. While you are thinking it over, the Knicks call and offer Clyde and Earl the Pearl. Which offer do you accept?
link to original post

Give me players who will win me championships, each and every time.
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I guess you weren't much of a Ted Williams fan. How sucky does one have to be to play 19 seasons and not manage to even sniff a title?
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On the contrary, we revere Williams. We named a tunnel after him even.But he never won a WS. Would we have supported his trade in exchange for a WS victory? In a heartbeat. Do you think anyone in Dallas regrets the Herschel Walker trade?

Quote: GenoDRPh

Give me players who will win me championships, each and every time.

in 1966 the Celtics won the Championship

in that same year the Detroit Pistons were in last place in the Western Division with a record of 22-58

what chance do you think they would have had of winning a Championship if K.C. Jones and Sam Jones had been on that team - ?

slim and none




players such as K.C. Jones and Sam Jones who played on a great many Championship teams deserve a lot of credit

but much of the reason they got so many Championship rings was due to luck

they were lucky to be on the same team as Bill Russell

there are other NBA guards who could have done as well with the Celtics and Bill Russell as they did

they don't deserve to considered better or equal to some others who didn't have that kind of luck - such as Oscar Robertson and Jerry West

.

I wasn't following basketball in 1966, so I looked into the Pistons roster. I was stunned to see that Dave Debusshere was the player/coach. He was 26 that year and not only was the player/coach of the Pistons, but he also pitched for the Chicago White Sox minor league organization. He was featured on a 1965 Topps baseball card as a White Sox.
After his retirement, Dave became the ABA commissioner and was responsible for resolving the long-delayed merger between the NBA and the ABA.

Quote: lilredrooster

Quote: GenoDRPh

Give me players who will win me championships, each and every time.

in 1966 the Celtics won the Championship

in that same year the Detroit Pistons were in last place in the Western Division with a record of 22-58

what chance do you think they would have had of winning a Championship if K.C. Jones and Sam Jones had been on that team - ?

slim and none




players such as K.C. Jones and Sam Jones who played on a great many Championship teams deserve a lot of credit

but much of the reason they got so many Championship rings was due to luck

they were lucky to be on the same team as Bill Russell

there are other NBA guards who could have done as well with the Celtics and Bill Russell as they did

they don't deserve to considered better or equal to some others who didn't have that kind of luck - such as Oscar Robertson and Jerry West

.
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They would've had a better chance at winning it all with KC and Sam than without. But they also had Dave Bing, who was a good player. Tell me you prefer Bin over KC or Sam.

As far as luck, as Thomas Jefferson once possible said, in addition to "I'm not the father, Sally", about luck "I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it." KC and Sam would agree.

Before Wilt, before Bill Russell, there was George Mikan.
Perhaps the most dominant basketball player of all time, Mikan and his Minneapolis Lakers won five NBA titles, and the basketball world had to make multiple rule changes to allow others to compete with him. Both the offensive three-second rule and goaltending were introduced because of him, and most people attribute the widening of the foul lines to him. When the Lakers adopted a defense where four players guarded the perimeter, and Mikan stood in front of the basket swatting away every shot, the no zone defense rule was adopted. At that point in time, there was a center jump after every basket. Since he won almost every jump, the rules were changed so that the team that didn't score got the ball.
Mikan was not very athletic, but he was 6-11 in a league that had few men over 6-4. Legendary coach Ray Meyer discovered Mikan on campus and made him a personal project. He taught him a hook shot that was almost unstoppable In nine seasons across three leagues, he won seven titles, and his presence on the Lakers was one of the main reasons the NBA emerged as the dominant league.
After basketball, he became a very successful businessman and co-founded the ABA, serving as its first Commissioner.
He also helped organize an early players' association and was a leader in establishing pension plans for pro sports. He led the fight to bring an expansion basketball team to Minnesota.