mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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September 19th, 2010 at 9:05:05 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

What is it then, nothing? Its a human being. You think something magical happens at birth that POOF, its now human and before that it was nonexistant? Its a human from the time of conception, people who think otherwise are kidding themselves because they have an agenda. Its alive in the womb, it doesn't come alive at birth. Get real..



It's a stupid debate, because one of the sides (guess which) is based on religion, which means that rationality goes out the window.

Even someone blinded by religion can figure out that there are not only two states of existence, i.e., "nothing" and "human"--as you so ridiculously state. Nothing "magical" happens at birth--magic is for religious people. What happens at birth is that a fetus becomes a child.

What you are failing to realize, in your ideological, magical, religious haze is that there is a distinction between a human being and a POTENTIAL human being. POTENTIAL does NOT equal ACTUAL. 3000 years ago, there were social taboos against masturbating because primitive religious cultures thought that sperm were human beings. Many persons' thinking hasn't evolved beyond that primitive time.

I doubt that I've even managed to give your brain the tiniest jolt, however, so I'll stop right here.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
boymimbo
boymimbo
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September 19th, 2010 at 9:40:12 PM permalink
I'll jump into this.

We know from science that when sperm and egg mate (zygote) and attach to the wall of the uterus (embryo), we have a the formation of human life. At about eight weeks we have a fetus. There is no magic here.

Thanks to the laws of this land, the supreme court has made it legal to have abortions and has maintained the right for a woman to choose the outcome of their embryo or fetus up to a certain point in its development, at which time, a magical decision says "it's too late" and then it becomes infanticide. Really, abortions were happening long before they became legal and certainly, the passage of this law has saved the lives of many "non-parents".

I'm not going to get into my personal beliefs about religion and abortion here. Ok, maybe I will. Why draw the line at three months or six months or whatever it is? Why is it too late at eight months?

Absolutely, the life of the mother and father (if he is around) will change when the child is born. But you should think about that before you get in the sack. Abortion for the sake of convenience for me seems to be just wrong.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
EvenBob
EvenBob
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September 19th, 2010 at 9:54:08 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

there is a distinction between a human being and a POTENTIAL human being. POTENTIAL does NOT equal ACTUAL.



Who says? Its an OPINION, not a fact. And I'm not at all religious, I have no religion. Its just common sense, something thats always lacking in the argument. Just because the baby is hidden from view, lets all pretend its not real. How silly. And dangerous. If you want to kill your baby, kill it. But don't play a word game and pretend you're killing a worthless bunch of cells. At one time, that worthless bunch of cells was YOU. And you're the one with magical thinking, believing its not a baby till you can see it breathe on its own.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
EvenBob
EvenBob
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September 19th, 2010 at 9:59:00 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Why draw the line at three months or six months or whatever it is? Why is it too late at eight months?



Exactly. I think we should be allowed to kill our children up till the age of 5, whats the difference. That makes just as much sense as killing them at 3 months. Wait till they're 5 and have a chance of finding your gun and fighting back.

>> There is no magic here. >>

Theres no magic in any of it, just facts. Its the abortionists that push the magic BS, telling people you can't see it, you can't talk to it, why, its not really there. Just pretend it was indigestion..
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
mkl654321
mkl654321
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September 19th, 2010 at 11:05:18 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

I'm not going to get into my personal beliefs about religion and abortion here. Ok, maybe I will. Why draw the line at three months or six months or whatever it is? Why is it too late at eight months?



Well, you could, Gawd forbid, bring science into the debate, when you would note that the fetus exhibits brain activity at 25 weeks. There could be a strong argument for allowing abortions only up to that point. The fetus is not independently viable until birth, though, so you could also make a strong argument for allowing abortions at any time. Monty Python sang "Every Sperm is Sacred", so you could also make an argument for forbidding abortions altogether.

Whatever benchmark you use, what gets aborted (or not) is a FETUS. Not a "child", a "baby", a "human being", or anything else. A FETUS. When the misogynistic "pro-lifers" (Gawd, how I love that term) start bleating on the issue, it's always a BAYBEE that is being aborted.

You can't abort a baby. If it's still in the womb, it's a FETUS. Any debate that fails to acknowledge that simple and obvious fact is doomed from the start.

I'd like to give the right-wingers something to chew on, though: you all favor limited government (except, of course, on religious issues). If you were to make abortion illegal, wouldn't the enforcement arm of that prohibition be the most powerful and intrusive in the history of the nation? Wouldn't you need to register every pregnancy, and monitor the behavior of EVERY expectant mother? Would you fill the prisons with those women who had illegal abortions?
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
boymimbo
boymimbo
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September 20th, 2010 at 4:10:28 AM permalink
The right-wingers who are passionate about their argument will call the fetus a baby to appeal to the emotions of the undecided. Most of them aren't stupid, just like the left-winged liberal wing nuts aren't necessarily stupid either.

The question really is, is a fetus life? Of course it is. There is a heartbeat long before 25 weeks. Just because it's not thinking yet doesn't make it any less valuable as a baby.

As far as I am concerned, "abortion" is just a loophole for a mother to get herself out of a mistake. The mother is responsible for the life and the pregnancy of the unborn so she gets to make a choice. My own opinion doesn't matter and I'm not going impose my beliefs on others. Your higher being of choice (or lack thereof) will judge your actions.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
BigTip
BigTip
Joined: May 25, 2010
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September 20th, 2010 at 5:45:26 AM permalink
Abortion debates can never be resolved because it is all dependent on when you think life begins. Breathing air means "life" to some, brain activity means life to others.

There was a Catholic, a Protestant, and a Jew having this very debate.
The Catholic said,"Life begins at conception!"
The Protestant said, "Life begins at birth!"
The Jew said, "Oy, life begins when they finally graduate from college and move out!"
Keyser
Keyser
Joined: Apr 16, 2010
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September 20th, 2010 at 7:19:51 AM permalink
Have you ever noticed that the biggest abortion supporters are also the biggest PETA supporters?
progrocker
progrocker
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September 20th, 2010 at 9:39:44 AM permalink
Quote: Keyser

Have you ever noticed that the biggest abortion supporters are also the biggest PETA supporters?



Yup, and the biggest abortion ban supporters are also the biggest death penalty supporters. There's lots of hypocrisy on both sides of the aisle.
Solo venimos, solo nos vamos. Y aqui nos juntamos, juntos que estamos.
Nareed
Nareed
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September 20th, 2010 at 9:44:10 AM permalink
For the record I favor abortion on demand only in the first trimester. I wish PETA would curl up and die. And I support the death penalty for murder.

Where do I fit?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal

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