Poll

1 vote (4.34%)
15 votes (65.21%)
5 votes (21.73%)
2 votes (8.69%)
No votes (0%)

23 members have voted

EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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September 4th, 2010 at 5:23:37 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Yes. That's EXACTLY what I'm saying. Don't appoint yourself God and decide whether a person has worked hard enough to deserve to live. Give everybody the basic necessities of life, whether they've "earned" them or not. I'm glad you understand.

Why is that so abhorrent to you, is what I'm wondering--is it any skin off your nose if some "bum" gets something to eat and a place to sleep out of the rain? How does that diminish you?



We already do it, its called welfare. Its wasn't meant as a lifestyle, but for generations that how it turned out. Why work when you can get paid for sitting in your underwear watching TV all day. And for the bums, we have homeless shelters, they've been around for decades. I'm not sure what you're getting at, all of that is already in place.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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September 4th, 2010 at 5:28:57 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Exactly. We provide for the basics for the lowest levels of society--convicted criminals. Why? Because it would be inhumane to starve them or deny them medical care. Now if you're EvenBob, you argue that they're criminals, they don't deserve decent treatment (ESPESHULLY NOT WID MY DADGUM TAX DOLLERS!), and they should just be allowed to die. After all, anyone who doesn't work as hard as Bob does deserves to die, right?



England had debtors prisons for hundreds of years. They eventually closed because people would go in, realize they could live without working, raise families, and have it better than on the outside. So they never left and often their children never did either. Offer a person the lowest common denominator, and they will often take it. Never underestimate the laziness of the common citizen.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
wrongway
wrongway
Joined: May 16, 2010
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September 4th, 2010 at 6:45:53 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Do you agree or disagree with the following statement, and why?

America is a wealthy country. Its citizens, simply by virtue of being Americans, are entitled to a share of its material wealth--an American birthright. Therefore:

Every citizen has an inalienable right to the necessities of life--adequate food, clothing, shelter, and medical care. This right is conferred regardless of circumstance, ability, age, or class. It is the task of the government, therefore, to ensure that no American dies of, or suffers from, inadequate nutrition, lack of shelter, exposure, or lack of medical care. The government can and should allocate, as the primary item on its budget, sufficient funds to ensure that all these things are available to any American who needs them---in much the same way that a family, or an individual, provides for its own material well-being first and foremost.



Hey! Sounds great! So next time you settle in at your favorite table game make sure equally share your bankroll around the table and if you're fortunate enough to win make sure you distribute the wealth evenly around the table before you leave.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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September 4th, 2010 at 6:49:10 PM permalink
Folks, please don't feed the trolls.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Doc
Doc
Joined: Feb 27, 2010
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September 4th, 2010 at 7:06:02 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Folks, please don't feed the trolls.

I'm still trying to decide whether mlk is the latest troll/scourge of the forum. To me, he seems to flip between outrageous proposals and extremely good contributions. Guess maybe he has me fooled so far. If I were convinced of his degenerate status, I would have blocked him by now. As long as he is also making frequent, insightful, and polite posts, I will keep reading (even if some posts get me close to fuming.)
NicksGamingStuff
NicksGamingStuff
Joined: Feb 2, 2010
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September 4th, 2010 at 7:09:30 PM permalink
Well I will work hard, I want to work, and I feel every working person should get a living wage and affordable health insurance. Every American citizen should have a right to be able to live off a 40 hour work week. They may not need a mansion but should be able to live in a small home and have food without seeking social services.
cclub79
cclub79
Joined: Dec 16, 2009
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September 4th, 2010 at 7:20:09 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

I'm still trying to decide whether mlk is the latest troll/scourge of the forum. To me, he seems to flip between outrageous proposals and extremely good contributions. Guess maybe he has me fooled so far. If I were convinced of his degenerate status, I would have blocked him by now. As long as he is also making frequent, insightful, and polite posts, I will keep reading (even if some posts get me close to fuming.)



My problem is even his good contributions almost always include something like:

Quote:


What an unbelievably stupid thing to say.



or a different rude comment. If it weren't for people saying stupid things every once and while, the board wouldn't flourish. You can debate someone without saying that their opinion is stupid. While mkl attempts to be above the fray as an educator and scholar, his unprofessional responses to those with whom he disagrees lower my impression of him the same way spelling and grammatical errors lower his impression of others on this board. This kind of flaming wasn't present before his arrival. The problem is the forum WILL suffer in the long term because of these types of posters. It will make certain people wary about posting for fear that their question or comment will be mocked or derided. It will make new arrivals read the threads and wander away before seeing the truly good discussions about gambling that used to be common. If I found this board today rather than last year, I probably wouldn't have returned a second time. And perhaps the worst consequence is it could make people have a more negative impression of the Wizard. As much as he supports free speech and open dialogue, I doubt he enjoys seeing some of our veteran posters being beaten up for speaking their mind the same way they always have.

Just my opinion.
Doc
Doc
Joined: Feb 27, 2010
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September 4th, 2010 at 7:56:34 PM permalink
Quote: cclub79

My problem is even his good contributions almost always include something like:

Quote:

What an unbelievably stupid thing to say.


or a different rude comment.

Yeah, there does seem to be an attitude problem. And an unnecessarily offensive way of communicating with others. But even that disappears every once in a while -- it's as if he slips a little and lets a decent chap show through. I don't know for certain which one is the disguise.

Also, there have been a number of previous posters (you've been around here longer than I have, so you probably can recall a few names) who also were quite rude and who were insistent that their (illogical) ideas on gambling, tipping, politics, whatever were absolutely handed down from God and that the rest of us imbeciles should be burned as heathens because we didn't worship at that altar. But most of them seem to depart after doing their damage. Most of them that I recall (over the past six months) never made a useful contribution that I could detect. That's where I think mkl might be different, even if his bluster presents many of the same negative characteristics.

But I could be wrong. That has happened before.
cclub79
cclub79
Joined: Dec 16, 2009
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September 4th, 2010 at 8:06:45 PM permalink
Quote: Doc


Also, there have been a number of previous posters (you've been around here longer than I have, so you probably can recall a few names) who also were quite rude and who were insistent that their (illogical) ideas on gambling, tipping, politics, whatever were absolutely handed down from God and that the rest of us imbeciles should be burned as heathens because we didn't worship at that altar. But most of them seem to depart after doing their damage. Most of them that I recall (over the past six months) never made a useful contribution that I could detect. That's where I think mkl might be different, even if his bluster presents many of the same negative characteristics.

But I could be wrong. That has happened before.



I know to whom you refer, but they never seemed as mean-spirited. Also, they usually kept their damage to their own threads regarding their systems or allegations.
Doc
Doc
Joined: Feb 27, 2010
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September 4th, 2010 at 8:20:33 PM permalink
Well, I guess I'll leave it with my previous last comment: "But I could be wrong. That has happened before."

I'm outa here for about two weeks, having fun away from the world of computers and the internet. While I'm gone, why don't all of you figure out for me whether mkl has any redeeming traits. If not, see whether you can trick JB's new forum features to get a universal block imposed on the offender. Then I won't get bogged down in this topic again when I return. I will probably have forgotten all about it by then.

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