Vegas Club claims to have loosest slots downtown

Quote: Wizard

So, I think the LVC deserves proper kudos for living up to their claim.

Nobody deserves kudos if you get any delay, any runaround, or any sort of 'Nah, we just say it, we don't show it in writing'.
Quite frankly, I don't play slots so it would make no difference to me, but I'd sure choose the casino that was honest and forthright and showed you a copy of the documentation the moment you seemed the least bit curious over some casino that might technically be lower but gave you a runaround of any sort.

Quote: Ayecarumba

-- What was the time period of the comparison?
-- Was the survey comprehensive? If not, which casinos were covered?
-- What is their definition of "Downtown"? Does it include nearby gas station and grocery store slots/VP?

I don't know the answer to any of these. In my opinion, the public is entitled to answers to these questions.

Here is an idea. If you're with me on this, your next trip downtown go to the LVC and ask about this. Maybe if enough ask about this they will humor us with some specifics.

They don't want to show it because its so close to not being
the lowest that its a joke. Probably fractions of a percentage
point.

Quote: Wizard

Here is an idea. If you're with me on this, your next trip downtown go to the LVC and ask about this. Maybe if enough ask about this they will humor us with some specifics.

Done.

Quote: Ayecarumba

I am curious about the details:
-- What was the time period of the comparison?
-- Was the survey comprehensive? If not, which casinos were covered?
-- What is their definition of "Downtown"? Does it include nearby gas station and grocery store slots/VP?

I am very surprised that the Gaming Commission could back such a claim. The Nevada Gaming Act makes it illegal for the NGC to reveal any financial details of a specific casino. They regularly black out general information on any groups of casinos of 5 or less because it provides too much information that might reveal details of a known casino.

Even the casinos that are in the "downtown area" are not publicly revealed. However, after reading the reports carefully, I am able to figure out which casinos are included. The Stratosphere is considered "downtown", but Arizona Charlie's is not. The remaining ones are all near Fremont Street.

Normally you would only be considering unlimited licenses. Limited licenses (i.e. 15 slots or fewer) would not normally be considered. In fact, they may be restricting themselves to casinos with unlimited licenses that make over $1 million per year. If you make fewer than a million dollars your reporting requirements are not very high. Some casinos have 35 slots which means they need an unlimited license, but it is difficult to make a million dollars downtown with so few machines.

The downtown casinos with unlimited licenses that make over $1 million are
1) Golden Nugget
2) Stratosphere
3) Boyd Fremont
4) Boyd California
5) Boyd Main Street
6) TLC Four Queens
7) TLC Binions
8) Tamares Plaza
9) Tamares Las Vegas Club
10) Tamares Western
11) El Cortez
12) Fitzgerald's
13) "Granite Gaming" Mermaids (slots only)
14) "Granite Gaming" La Bayou (slots only)
15) Golden Gate
16) Gold Spike

There are three more unlimited licenses that make less than $1 million
Aztec Club near the Stratosphere
Silver Saddle Saloon
I am not sure where the last one is

It would not surprise me that Las Vegas Club has the loosest slots downtown. The owner is a multi-billionaire who is killing time with these properties. What does surprise me is that someone would know that information and be legally allowed to reveal it.

Quote: pacomartin

I am very surprised that the Gaming Commission could back such a claim. The Nevada Gaming Act makes it illegal for the NGC to reveal any financial details of a specific casino.

I was surprised to. If I were any other downtown property I might be angry about the disclosure. Then again, it isn't the world revolves around what I say or do.

Quote: Wizard

Here is an idea. If you're with me on this, your next trip downtown go to the LVC and ask about this. Maybe if enough ask about this they will humor us with some specifics.

I dropped by the Vegas Club Monday night, August 29. I didn't see any banners with the "loosest slots in downtown" claim, but there were several, "This bank of slots loosened 40%" signs posted. I didn't get a chance to walk the whole floor though.

Quote: Ayecarumba

I dropped by the Vegas Club Monday night, August 29. I didn't see any banners with the "loosest slots in downtown" claim, but there were several, "This bank of slots loosened 40%" signs posted. I didn't get a chance to walk the whole floor though.

Did you look at the bottom of the signs you did mention? That is where the "loosest slots downtown" claim was, in a small font.

Quote: Wizard

Did you look at the bottom of the signs you did mention? That is where the "loosest slots downtown" claim was, in a small font.

I didn't look that closely as I was rushing through. I'll look more closely next time, but that might be a few months. Perhaps someone stopping by the Plaza grand opening can pop in to confirm, and ask about documentation.

I thought that claiming that you have the loosest slots was against the law. I don't remember where I read that but I do remember that it was illegal for any casino to claim that in Las Vegas (or maybe even in all of Nevada).

Quote: HotBlonde

I thought that claiming that you have the loosest slots was against the law. I don't remember where I read that but I do remember that it was illegal for any casino to claim that in Las Vegas (or maybe even in all of Nevada).

We thought so as well. You could claim looser than average if you provided some proof. But loosest for a given region is a tightly kept secret.

Would the term "loosest" be based on how they set the slots up as far as how to much to pay out (setting the house edge) or would "loosest" be based on actual statistical payouts?

Could a hooker advertise that she is the loosest girl in town? :)

Quote: slyther

Could a hooker advertise that she is the loosest girl in town? :)

Legally she could but wouldn't that be to her disadvantage? Lol

Quote: HotBlonde

Would the term "loosest" be based on how they set the slots up as far as how to much to pay out (setting the house edge) or would "loosest" be based on actual statistical payouts?

I think you are referring to hit rate which defines the number of times per play that you hit. With penny machines it is theoretically possible for a machine to have a 100% hit rate, and still be pretty tight. The house edge can still be a rather high 10%.

Quote: pacomartin

I think you are referring to hit rate which defines the number of times per play that you hit. With penny machines it is theoretically possible for a machine to have a 100% hit rate, and still be pretty tight. The house edge can still be a rather high 10%.

I thought the house edge on slot machines were closer to 25%.

Quote: HotBlonde

Quote: pacomartin

I think you are referring to hit rate which defines the number of times per play that you hit. With penny machines it is theoretically possible for a machine to have a 100% hit rate, and still be pretty tight. The house edge can still be a rather high 10%.

I thought the house edge on slot machines were closer to 25%.

No, they are not that bad of a deal. In Nevada the house edge legally can't be higher than 25%, and in New Jersey legally it can't be higher than 17%, but competitive pressure keeps it much lower. Even in Pennsylvania where there is no competitive pressure, house edge is never above 9%.

Quote: Wizard

... However, they win by 0.19% only, which is within the margin of error, given that results are based on actual results. .

REALLY?

I'd have though with a years sample size the margin of error would be a LOT smaller. I mean aren't we talking about literally millions of spins, and the difference being on the order of 5%?

Okay, you skeptics. I just just took these pictures last night. Click on any image for a larger version.


These signs are all over the casino.


Close up of the above sign.


These little signs hang from lots of the slots.

Quote: sunrise089

REALLY? I'd have though with a years sample size the margin of error would be a LOT smaller. I mean aren't we talking about literally millions of spins, and the difference being on the order of 5%?

Fair point. The El Cortez released that their handle from 4/1/10 to 3/31/11 was $675,789,245.71. 0.1% of that would be $675,789.24. A royal on a $100 video poker machine is $400,000. Granted, I doubt the El Cortez has $100 video poker. However, slots are very volatile, and normal variation on their highest-denomination games I think could sway results by 0.1% over a year. That is my educated opinion.

Great news everybody! Yesterday I paid a visit to the Las Vegas Club to see if the "Loosest Slots" signs were still up. Guess what?! They put stickers over the words "loosest slots" to now say "best slots."

I consider this a small victory in the battle against false advertising. My compliments to the Nevada Gaming Control board for their investigation of the matter, which obviously resulted in the signs being changed.

very good!

Quote: Wizard

I consider this a small victory in the battle against false advertising. My compliments to the Nevada Gaming Control board for their investigation of the matter, which obviously resulted in the signs being changed.

Great job Wizard! I wonder if they got passed by another joint (on whatever measure they were using that was previously "confirmed" by Gaming Control), or if the NGC realized they made an error endorsing them, and forced the change?

Quote: Ayecarumba

Great job Wizard! I wonder if they got passed by another joint (on whatever measure they were using that was previously "confirmed" by Gaming Control), or if the NGC realized they made an error endorsing them, and forced the change?

Thanks! Again, the first agent who called me said they did have the loosest slots downtown, and quoted a spreadsheet showing historical returns by property. However, I'm sure he was not supposed to tell me that. The next two agents I spoke did not even admit such a spreadsheet existed, and certainly if it did it would not be shared outside the GCB.

Ironically, it may very well be that the LVC does have the loosest downtown, but if they can't prove it, they have no right to say it.

Quote: Wizard

In my trip downtown on Sunday I noticed lots of signage in the Vegas Club (or is it Las Vegas club?) claiming that their slots are 40% looser than before and the loosest downtown.

What difference can it make when it's about slot-machines, casinos, and/or the advertising of?

So they take down that sign? Most people who go at all are still going to lose (too much), become addicted to losing (too much), and later wish they'd never really been in the first place, and that they hadn't wasted so much of their precious time in the process. Sort of like "missing the forest for the trees".

Perhaps, also i am guilty of stretching something with the word "most"? Who really knows, or would admit one way or other. Don't "let it get to you".

Quote: Garnabby

Most people who go at all are still going to lose (too much), become addicted to losing (too much), and later wish they'd never really been in the first place, and that they hadn't wasted so much of their precious time in the process. Sort of like "missing the forest for the trees".

I'm not going to get into it again responding to posts about evil casinos taking advantage of compulsive gamblers. If you want to go down that road, make a separate thread for it, or do it an another forum.

Quote: Garnabby

What difference can it make when it's about slot-machines, casinos, and/or the advertising of?

It is very important. I choose where and what to play, intending to get the most bang for my buck. If a casino makes a claim that they are the "loosest", "highest", "most", etc., I will choose to play there. However, they had better really be the "loosest", "highest", and/or "most", etc. or I am going to report them to the authorities.

The games aren't supposed to favor the players, but the players have a right to know what they are up against.