Doc
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November 27th, 2011 at 8:08:16 AM permalink
Quote: Las Vegas Advisor 11/25/11

The Las Vegas Hilton is changing its name. As of January 3, the official name will be LVH-Las Vegas Hotel and Casino. The change was necessitated by the expiration of the casino's contract with Hilton Worldwide.


So here is a question from a chip collector: How long should it take for the casino at the Hilton to change its name and issue chips under the new name? Does a name change like this require a license change? I have checked the NGC Chip and Token reports, which pacomartin has mentioned in the past, but there is not yet any mention that I can find of a "Las Vegas Hotel and Casino" chip.

Yes, I'm probably jumping the gun on this, but does anyone have any idea of what kind of schedule is required for this sort of thing? Would they likely have everything in place in time for an "official" changeover of everything (including chips) on 1/3/12?

My wife and I have been talking about when to make our next visit to Las Vegas, and February or March seems like a possible time frame. I would make it a point to pick up Margaritaville and Las Vegas Hotel souvenir chips on that trip, if they are available. I strongly suspect that I will not be following up on my silly suggestion that I should pick up a genuine chip to replace my souvenir token from another casino.
Tiltpoul
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November 27th, 2011 at 3:45:52 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

So here is a question from a chip collector: How long should it take for the casino at the Hilton to change its name and issue chips under the new name? Does a name change like this require a license change? I have checked the NGC Chip and Token reports, which pacomartin has mentioned in the past, but there is not yet any mention that I can find of a "Las Vegas Hotel and Casino" chip.

Yes, I'm probably jumping the gun on this, but does anyone have any idea of what kind of schedule is required for this sort of thing? Would they likely have everything in place in time for an "official" changeover of everything (including chips) on 1/3/12?



If you didn't know, Atlantic City Hilton had to change it's name. I was there a week ago, and the players club and all the advertising now goes by "ACH" (I keep thinking it's going to adopt a German theme). However, the Hilton sign is still on the outside and the chips still say Atlantic City Hilton. I'm guessing the LVH (or whatever it will call itself) will take a similar lengthy process.

My vote is to go back to the International Hotel. I'd scale back the casino even more and really figure out a way to cater to the convention goers. It's sad that it has been diminished to that level, but what else can be done?
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
Face
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November 27th, 2011 at 3:57:33 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

So here is a question from a chip collector: How long should it take for the casino at the Hilton to change its name and issue chips under the new name? Does a name change like this require a license change? I have checked the NGC Chip and Token reports, which pacomartin has mentioned in the past, but there is not yet any mention that I can find of a "Las Vegas Hotel and Casino" chip.

Yes, I'm probably jumping the gun on this, but does anyone have any idea of what kind of schedule is required for this sort of thing? Would they likely have everything in place in time for an "official" changeover of everything (including chips) on 1/3/12?

My wife and I have been talking about when to make our next visit to Las Vegas, and February or March seems like a possible time frame. I would make it a point to pick up Margaritaville and Las Vegas Hotel souvenir chips on that trip, if they are available. I strongly suspect that I will not be following up on my silly suggestion that I should pick up a genuine chip to replace my souvenir token from another casino.



I know in our Book of Important Things That Must Be Obeyed, we must have our corporate logo on any cheques to be used for play. And although we have a sister casino and we allow their cheques to be used here, those cheques once used are not let back out (placed in drop box, not the float).

My semi-educated guess is that once it's officially "LVHC", it will have LVHC cheques immediately. It would seem odd and a bad case of branding to promote yourself as new, yet have old cheques (or old layouts, or old marquis). And I'd imagine that like our place, the LHC cheques should still be good, but would be kept to be taken out of circulation.

Opinion only, I could be way off target with this.
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DJTeddyBear
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November 27th, 2011 at 4:47:23 PM permalink
It seems to me that a name change only, should be able to be accomplished relatively quickly.

OK, The sign on the side of the building and the sign out front may take a while to manufacture and install, but a lot of the other stuff should be easy to do.

Casinos are already supposed to have an entire second set of chips on hand, ready to be switched out on demand. So how much harder would it be to order new chips, with a new name/logo, and swap them out on a specific date?
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pacomartin
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November 27th, 2011 at 6:32:50 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

It seems to me that a name change only, should be able to be accomplished relatively quickly.

OK, The sign on the side of the building and the sign out front may take a while to manufacture and install, but a lot of the other stuff should be easy to do.



Goldman Sachs is also trying to foreclose on the property because of non-payment on a $250m loan. A countersuit has been filed by Colony Capital. Goldman Sachs already owns 40% of the property, so they are simply bucking for the rest.

As the Hilton agreement expires on January 1, my guess is that the hotel will do whatever is the cheapest. While the brand name with the Hilton expires on 1 January, it is possible that Hilton cannot sue to have their name removed from the casino chips. The LVH resort may wait until the lawsuit shakes out and they find out who owns them.

If Goldman Sachs ends up as sole owner, then they may choose a name that allows them to market both the LVH and the Stratosphere (which they bought in 2007).

I could see GS trying to buy the Sahara, Riviera and Fountainbleau to give them a monopoly on that end of the strip for future development. It makes more sense than purchasing the ACEP, LLC in 2007 for $1.3 billion.
Tiltpoul
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November 27th, 2011 at 6:42:11 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin


I could see GS trying to buy the Sahara, Riviera and Fountainbleau to give them a monopoly on that end of the strip for future development. It makes more sense than purchasing the ACEP, LLC in 2007 for $1.3 billion.



I can hear advertisements now... "It's Caesars/Harrah's lite! Same food, less calories!"

If Las Vegas were Monopoly (board game/slot machine), that North strip area would be Baltic/Mediterranean Avenues. They are cheap, but all the hotels in the world won't get you all that much money. I could see them making the move for the reasons you presented, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
DJTeddyBear
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November 27th, 2011 at 7:28:51 PM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

If Las Vegas were Monopoly...

Funny you should say that.

www.VegasTodayaAndTomorrow.com made a map for "Who Own's What", and called it their 'Monopoly' map:
http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/monopoly.htm

Personally, I find their Coke & Pepsi map most interesting:
http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/coke-or-pepsi.htm
Somebody at Caesars loves Pepsi, but the MGM group is undecided.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
pacomartin
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November 27th, 2011 at 8:02:39 PM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

I could see them making the move for the reasons you presented, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.



I tried very hard to analyze the purchase in mid 2008. As best as humanely possible, I tried to look at it from the perspective of March 2007 (pre-recession), which is when they signed the contract to purchase American Casino and Entertainment Properties (ACEP). The company consisted of four aging casinos: Stratosphere, Arizona Charlie's Decatur, Arizona Charlie's Boulder Strip, and the Aquarius in Laughlin. The four companies had been purchased for a collective $300 million over the previous decade by Carl Icahn.

Goldman Sachs paid $1.3 billion. Even by loaning themselves the money at impossibly low initial interest rates, the revenue of the company barely covered the interest, and that was assuming that overall revenue would keep going up. Of course by the time they closed the deal in February of 2008, the economy was starting to unravel. Within a year it had totally tanked.

It would appear that they had unrealistic expectations about what they could do with the vacant lot next to the Stratosphere, as they were paying hundreds of millions of dollars for that land (more than the Plaza paid for the New Frontier land across from the Wynn).

So it is my personal opinion that the decision was based on power point slides by people who never left NYC and saw how many adult businesses were within spitting distance of the empty lot. They could have interviewed a homeless bum, and he would have told them that lot was not worth that kind of money. I consider it a crime that the federal government bailed out that company.

They also vastly overpaid for their share in the LVH hotel.

In comparison to these two debacles, buying the rest of the derelict properties at fire sale prices doesn't seem like a terrible idea.

Carl Icahn laughed his way to the bank, and then bought 20 casinos around the country for less than he was paid by GS for the 4 that belonged to ACEP.
Tiltpoul
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November 27th, 2011 at 8:35:44 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Personally, I find their Coke & Pepsi map most interesting:
http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/coke-or-pepsi.htm
Somebody at Caesars loves Pepsi, but the MGM group is undecided.



A couple of years ago, all the Harrah's properties switched over to Pepsi. The Midwest properties actually ran big promotions where they gave cases away to everybody. Ironically, Ameristar, which had long been Pepsi, switched over to Coke around that time.

I'm a Pepsi guy... Mt. Dew to be more specific.
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Ayecarumba
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November 28th, 2011 at 11:50:10 AM permalink
While the hotel may be forced to rebrand, does the casino have to as well? Who actually holds the gaming license for the casino in the Hilton? Hilton Corporate could still operate the casino, while the hotel changes over. After all, they were operating a "Space Quest" slot parlor within the casino while the Star Trek attraction was operating.

The main problem with the Hilton is the location. They are far from just about everything, and do not have enough on their property to keep guests from cabbing it to the Strip.
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pacomartin
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November 28th, 2011 at 12:40:00 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

While the hotel may be forced to rebrand, does the casino have to as well? Who actually holds the gaming license for the casino in the Hilton? Hilton Corporate could still operate the casino, while the hotel changes over. After all, they were operating a "Space Quest" slot parlor within the casino while the Star Trek attraction was operating.

The main problem with the Hilton is the location. They are far from just about everything, and do not have enough on their property to keep guests from cabbing it to the Strip.



Colony Resorts was the one that applied for the name change.
Ayecarumba
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November 28th, 2011 at 1:05:26 PM permalink
Thanks Paco. I noted in the NGC documents that the "Parball Corporation" was the last to hold the license. It appears to be a holding company for Caesars Corporate Gaming.

I anticipate that a complete change over, with new cheque designs would be in order. However, the new license holders are supposed to coordinate with the old when the old cheques are retired. They have to post notice of exchange deadlines sometime in advance. I suspect they will introduce new logos, and use both designs for a while as they gradually take the old Hilton cheques out of circulation.
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Doc
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November 28th, 2011 at 1:59:28 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Thanks Paco. I noted in the NGC documents that the "Parball Corporation" was the last to hold the license. It appears to be a holding company for Caesars Corporate Gaming.


Whoa! That one caught me by surprise. I can't remember the history of these things (of course pacomartin can!), but I was thinking something progressed like:
Bally's ---> bought by Hilton ---> spin off & name change to Park Place ---> more acquisitions ---> name change to Caesars ---> sold LV Hiton ---> Harrah's purchased Caesars ---> Harrah's taken private ---> name changed to Caesars

If that is anywhere close to correct, then the LV Hilton hotel (and casino, I assume) have been separated from Harrah's for at least half a dozen years, with a lot of organization changes since then. Can any part (or holding company) of Harrah's/Caesars still be holding the license for the casino at the LV Hilton?
teddys
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November 28th, 2011 at 3:03:05 PM permalink
Colony Resorts owns the LV Hilton. At one time, they owned the AC Hilton, Resorts AC, Resorts Tunica and Bally's Tunica. Now those are all spun off, and they are left with LV Hilton (LVH). They horribly mismanaged their properties and pretty much ran them into the ground.
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Tiltpoul
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November 28th, 2011 at 3:31:52 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

Colony Resorts owns the LV Hilton. At one time, they owned the AC Hilton, Resorts AC, Resorts Tunica and Bally's Tunica. Now those are all spun off, and they are left with LV Hilton (LVH). They horribly mismanaged their properties and pretty much ran them into the ground.



In all fairness, their strategy was to get deals at fire sale prices on casinos and turn them for a profit. The only one they successfully managed to sell was Resorts East Chicago, and Ameristar was somewhat idiotic to get that property given the landscape of Horseshoe changing.

Also, Resorts Tunica was the old Harrah's which was a piece of s$%^ anyways. Resorts actually made an effort to turn the property around, and initially, it was one of my favorite properties in Tunica. Bally's Tunica was never really anything special, and its small size was the ONLY reason it looked successful. While I never went to ACH or Resorts AC while they owned it, I imagine they screwed it up pretty bad.
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Ayecarumba
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November 28th, 2011 at 4:47:52 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

Whoa! That one caught me by surprise. I can't remember the history of these things (of course pacomartin can!), but I was thinking something progressed like:
Bally's ---> bought by Hilton ---> spin off & name change to Park Place ---> more acquisitions ---> name change to Caesars ---> sold LV Hiton ---> Harrah's purchased Caesars ---> Harrah's taken private ---> name changed to Caesars

If that is anywhere close to correct, then the LV Hilton hotel (and casino, I assume) have been separated from Harrah's for at least half a dozen years, with a lot of organization changes since then. Can any part (or holding company) of Harrah's/Caesars still be holding the license for the casino at the LV Hilton?



Sorry for the confusion Doc. You are correct. I was looking at the Flamingo Hilton history. Park Place Entertainment sold the LV Hilton to Colony in 2004, around the same time Park Place became Caesars Entertainment. Colony set up a holding company to run the Hilton, including the casino shortly after.
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pacomartin
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November 28th, 2011 at 5:00:53 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

Colony Resorts owns the LV Hilton. At one time, they owned the AC Hilton, Resorts AC, Resorts Tunica and Bally's Tunica. Now those are all spun off, and they are left with LV Hilton (LVH). They horribly mismanaged their properties and pretty much ran them into the ground.



Resorts International Holdings, LLC (RIH), also known as Colony Resorts Holdings (CRH) is an affiliate of Colony Capital, LLC based in Las Vegas, Nevada. RIH was created by Colony Capital in 2000 after it purchased Resorts Atlantic City from Sun International for $144 million.



The LVH - casino changed hands in 2004, when Caesars Entertainment sold the property to Colony Capital, for $280 million.

In 2005 Colony Resorts purchased four more properties from Caesars and Harrah's for a total of $1.24 billion prior to the Harrah's buyout of Caesars.

The four properties are:
Bally's Tunica,
Resorts Casino Tunica,
Ameristar Casino East Chicago (sold April 2007 to Ameristar for $675 million)
Atlantic City Hilton.

On December 10, 2009, it was announced that Resort International wasn't able to pay the mortgage for more than a year for the Atlantic City property and made a deal to have the loan canceled and surrender the property to RAC Atlantic City Holdings L.L.C. (which is owned by the lenders, Wells Fargo and others).

=============================================================


Hilton is owned by Ladbrokes PLC which doesn't want the name associated with another gaming company.

Quote: Ladbroke's history

It was towards the end of 2005 that Hilton Group痴 management, responsible for two of the world痴 premier brands, Hilton and Ladbrokes, announced that agreement had been reached, subject to shareholder approval, to sell the Hilton International Hotel division to Hilton Hotel Corporation, its US corporate cousin, for £3.3 billion. The deal, involving the sale of more than 400 Hilton International hotels, reunited Hilton痴 2,800-strong hotel network some 40 years after the asset split.

The Company痴 name reverted to Ladbrokes PLC, Christopher Bell, the former head of Ladbrokes Worldwide, was appointed Chief Executive and the cashing in of the Hilton chips led to an epic £4 billion special payout for shareholders: no small achievement for an enterprise that, less than four decades earlier, had been capitalised at under £1 million.

The historic development of the international hotel portfolio gave way to a selective extension of Ladbrokes overseas interests hand in hand with the rapid growth of the eGaming operation. In 2006, Ladbrokes exploratory focus on Asia led to a consultancy association with the China Sports Lottery: an entrée into a country and a market described by management as a 都trategic imperative.

Doc
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November 28th, 2011 at 6:36:28 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Sorry for the confusion Doc. You are correct. I was looking at the Flamingo Hilton history.

OK. And that's relevant to the reason I started this thread in the first place -- I am interested in adding to my collection the new chips from (Flamingo) Margaritaville Casino and the Las Vegas (former Hilton) Hotel and Casino when I next visit the city.
Ayecarumba
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November 28th, 2011 at 6:55:07 PM permalink
It will be interesting to see what actually happens, since the name change could be a play to get the Hilton name off the joint before the foreclosure gets approved.

New places also include the "Downtown Grand" (formerly the "Lady Luck"), and possibly the renamed "Las Vegas Club/Vegas Club/LVC/The Vegas Club". I don't know what the timeline on the DG is like though.
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Doc
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November 28th, 2011 at 7:31:01 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

New places also include the "Downtown Grand" (formerly the "Lady Luck"), and possibly the renamed "Las Vegas Club/Vegas Club/LVC/The Vegas Club". I don't know what the timeline on the DG is like though.


I did not get a Lady Luck chip before the place closed, and I will definitely want to get one from whatever they call the place when a new casino finally opens. As for the corner of Main and Fremont Streets, I was aware that the name changed from Las Vegas Club to Vegas Club and back to Las Vegas Club. Once I went in to try to get a "Vegas Club" souvenir chip, but they were still using the same chips I had collected before, with the original name. Was the name actually "LVC" at one time? I don't think they ever changed the exterior lights/sign that say "Las Vegas Club", no matter what the real name of the place was.
ten2win
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January 4th, 2012 at 3:29:26 PM permalink
Noticed this in the USATODAY



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Flynn
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January 4th, 2012 at 4:34:01 PM permalink
My opinion is that they should have changed the name to The International. Just like it opened in 1969.
My favorite bet: Double Down!
Tiltpoul
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January 4th, 2012 at 8:04:14 PM permalink
Quote: Flynn

My opinion is that they should have changed the name to The International. Just like it opened in 1969.



From my post on November 27...
Quote: Tiltpoul

My vote is to go back to the International Hotel. I'd scale back the casino even more and really figure out a way to cater to the convention goers. It's sad that it has been diminished to that level, but what else can be done?



Great minds apparently do think alike... too bad we're not running the joint.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
Ibeatyouraces
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January 5th, 2012 at 11:50:33 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
DJTeddyBear
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January 5th, 2012 at 12:57:00 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

The players, playing cards and chips all say "The Las Vegas Hilton" on them.

Wait a sec...

I can understand the cards and chips, but the players?
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Nareed
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January 5th, 2012 at 5:00:58 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

The players, playing cards and chips all say "The Las Vegas Hilton" on them.

Wait a sec...

I can understand the cards and chips, but the players?



They're very loyal customers :P
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Ibeatyouraces
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January 5th, 2012 at 6:27:48 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Doc
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February 5th, 2012 at 7:18:19 AM permalink
Quote: Doc

So here is a question from a chip collector: How long should it take for the casino at the Hilton to change its name and issue chips under the new name? ...

Yes, I'm probably jumping the gun on this, but does anyone have any idea of what kind of schedule is required for this sort of thing? Would they likely have everything in place in time for an "official" changeover of everything (including chips) on 1/3/12?

Just in case there is anyone other than me interested in this topic, and just in case that person doesn't read the Las Vegas Advisor QoD, today's Q&A reveals that the new chips will be available 3/30/12, prior to my next visit to Las Vegas.

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