Doc
Doc
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November 27th, 2011 at 8:08:16 AM permalink
Quote: Las Vegas Advisor 11/25/11

The Las Vegas Hilton is changing its name. As of January 3, the official name will be LVH-Las Vegas Hotel and Casino. The change was necessitated by the expiration of the casino's contract with Hilton Worldwide.


So here is a question from a chip collector: How long should it take for the casino at the Hilton to change its name and issue chips under the new name? Does a name change like this require a license change? I have checked the NGC Chip and Token reports, which pacomartin has mentioned in the past, but there is not yet any mention that I can find of a "Las Vegas Hotel and Casino" chip.

Yes, I'm probably jumping the gun on this, but does anyone have any idea of what kind of schedule is required for this sort of thing? Would they likely have everything in place in time for an "official" changeover of everything (including chips) on 1/3/12?

My wife and I have been talking about when to make our next visit to Las Vegas, and February or March seems like a possible time frame. I would make it a point to pick up Margaritaville and Las Vegas Hotel souvenir chips on that trip, if they are available. I strongly suspect that I will not be following up on my silly suggestion that I should pick up a genuine chip to replace my souvenir token from another casino.
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
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November 27th, 2011 at 3:45:52 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

So here is a question from a chip collector: How long should it take for the casino at the Hilton to change its name and issue chips under the new name? Does a name change like this require a license change? I have checked the NGC Chip and Token reports, which pacomartin has mentioned in the past, but there is not yet any mention that I can find of a "Las Vegas Hotel and Casino" chip.

Yes, I'm probably jumping the gun on this, but does anyone have any idea of what kind of schedule is required for this sort of thing? Would they likely have everything in place in time for an "official" changeover of everything (including chips) on 1/3/12?



If you didn't know, Atlantic City Hilton had to change it's name. I was there a week ago, and the players club and all the advertising now goes by "ACH" (I keep thinking it's going to adopt a German theme). However, the Hilton sign is still on the outside and the chips still say Atlantic City Hilton. I'm guessing the LVH (or whatever it will call itself) will take a similar lengthy process.

My vote is to go back to the International Hotel. I'd scale back the casino even more and really figure out a way to cater to the convention goers. It's sad that it has been diminished to that level, but what else can be done?
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
Face
Administrator
Face
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November 27th, 2011 at 3:57:33 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

So here is a question from a chip collector: How long should it take for the casino at the Hilton to change its name and issue chips under the new name? Does a name change like this require a license change? I have checked the NGC Chip and Token reports, which pacomartin has mentioned in the past, but there is not yet any mention that I can find of a "Las Vegas Hotel and Casino" chip.

Yes, I'm probably jumping the gun on this, but does anyone have any idea of what kind of schedule is required for this sort of thing? Would they likely have everything in place in time for an "official" changeover of everything (including chips) on 1/3/12?

My wife and I have been talking about when to make our next visit to Las Vegas, and February or March seems like a possible time frame. I would make it a point to pick up Margaritaville and Las Vegas Hotel souvenir chips on that trip, if they are available. I strongly suspect that I will not be following up on my silly suggestion that I should pick up a genuine chip to replace my souvenir token from another casino.



I know in our Book of Important Things That Must Be Obeyed, we must have our corporate logo on any cheques to be used for play. And although we have a sister casino and we allow their cheques to be used here, those cheques once used are not let back out (placed in drop box, not the float).

My semi-educated guess is that once it's officially "LVHC", it will have LVHC cheques immediately. It would seem odd and a bad case of branding to promote yourself as new, yet have old cheques (or old layouts, or old marquis). And I'd imagine that like our place, the LHC cheques should still be good, but would be kept to be taken out of circulation.

Opinion only, I could be way off target with this.
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
DJTeddyBear
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November 27th, 2011 at 4:47:23 PM permalink
It seems to me that a name change only, should be able to be accomplished relatively quickly.

OK, The sign on the side of the building and the sign out front may take a while to manufacture and install, but a lot of the other stuff should be easy to do.

Casinos are already supposed to have an entire second set of chips on hand, ready to be switched out on demand. So how much harder would it be to order new chips, with a new name/logo, and swap them out on a specific date?
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
pacomartin
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November 27th, 2011 at 6:32:50 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

It seems to me that a name change only, should be able to be accomplished relatively quickly.

OK, The sign on the side of the building and the sign out front may take a while to manufacture and install, but a lot of the other stuff should be easy to do.



Goldman Sachs is also trying to foreclose on the property because of non-payment on a $250m loan. A countersuit has been filed by Colony Capital. Goldman Sachs already owns 40% of the property, so they are simply bucking for the rest.

As the Hilton agreement expires on January 1, my guess is that the hotel will do whatever is the cheapest. While the brand name with the Hilton expires on 1 January, it is possible that Hilton cannot sue to have their name removed from the casino chips. The LVH resort may wait until the lawsuit shakes out and they find out who owns them.

If Goldman Sachs ends up as sole owner, then they may choose a name that allows them to market both the LVH and the Stratosphere (which they bought in 2007).

I could see GS trying to buy the Sahara, Riviera and Fountainbleau to give them a monopoly on that end of the strip for future development. It makes more sense than purchasing the ACEP, LLC in 2007 for $1.3 billion.
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
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November 27th, 2011 at 6:42:11 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin


I could see GS trying to buy the Sahara, Riviera and Fountainbleau to give them a monopoly on that end of the strip for future development. It makes more sense than purchasing the ACEP, LLC in 2007 for $1.3 billion.



I can hear advertisements now... "It's Caesars/Harrah's lite! Same food, less calories!"

If Las Vegas were Monopoly (board game/slot machine), that North strip area would be Baltic/Mediterranean Avenues. They are cheap, but all the hotels in the world won't get you all that much money. I could see them making the move for the reasons you presented, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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November 27th, 2011 at 7:28:51 PM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

If Las Vegas were Monopoly...

Funny you should say that.

www.VegasTodayaAndTomorrow.com made a map for "Who Own's What", and called it their 'Monopoly' map:
http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/monopoly.htm

Personally, I find their Coke & Pepsi map most interesting:
http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/coke-or-pepsi.htm
Somebody at Caesars loves Pepsi, but the MGM group is undecided.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
pacomartin
pacomartin
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November 27th, 2011 at 8:02:39 PM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

I could see them making the move for the reasons you presented, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.



I tried very hard to analyze the purchase in mid 2008. As best as humanely possible, I tried to look at it from the perspective of March 2007 (pre-recession), which is when they signed the contract to purchase American Casino and Entertainment Properties (ACEP). The company consisted of four aging casinos: Stratosphere, Arizona Charlie's Decatur, Arizona Charlie's Boulder Strip, and the Aquarius in Laughlin. The four companies had been purchased for a collective $300 million over the previous decade by Carl Icahn.

Goldman Sachs paid $1.3 billion. Even by loaning themselves the money at impossibly low initial interest rates, the revenue of the company barely covered the interest, and that was assuming that overall revenue would keep going up. Of course by the time they closed the deal in February of 2008, the economy was starting to unravel. Within a year it had totally tanked.

It would appear that they had unrealistic expectations about what they could do with the vacant lot next to the Stratosphere, as they were paying hundreds of millions of dollars for that land (more than the Plaza paid for the New Frontier land across from the Wynn).

So it is my personal opinion that the decision was based on power point slides by people who never left NYC and saw how many adult businesses were within spitting distance of the empty lot. They could have interviewed a homeless bum, and he would have told them that lot was not worth that kind of money. I consider it a crime that the federal government bailed out that company.

They also vastly overpaid for their share in the LVH hotel.

In comparison to these two debacles, buying the rest of the derelict properties at fire sale prices doesn't seem like a terrible idea.

Carl Icahn laughed his way to the bank, and then bought 20 casinos around the country for less than he was paid by GS for the 4 that belonged to ACEP.
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
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November 27th, 2011 at 8:35:44 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Personally, I find their Coke & Pepsi map most interesting:
http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/coke-or-pepsi.htm
Somebody at Caesars loves Pepsi, but the MGM group is undecided.



A couple of years ago, all the Harrah's properties switched over to Pepsi. The Midwest properties actually ran big promotions where they gave cases away to everybody. Ironically, Ameristar, which had long been Pepsi, switched over to Coke around that time.

I'm a Pepsi guy... Mt. Dew to be more specific.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
Ayecarumba
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November 28th, 2011 at 11:50:10 AM permalink
While the hotel may be forced to rebrand, does the casino have to as well? Who actually holds the gaming license for the casino in the Hilton? Hilton Corporate could still operate the casino, while the hotel changes over. After all, they were operating a "Space Quest" slot parlor within the casino while the Star Trek attraction was operating.

The main problem with the Hilton is the location. They are far from just about everything, and do not have enough on their property to keep guests from cabbing it to the Strip.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci

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