Wizard
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Wizard
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July 19th, 2011 at 8:27:34 PM permalink
I was on the Strip today, in part to update my blackjack survey. I was surprised to learn of of the following game at Caesar's Palace:

6 decks
Dealer hits soft 17
No double after split
No surrender
No re-splitting aces
And, get this, double on 10 and 11 only

Granted, it isn't as bad as 6-5. Is it just me or does anyone else think that adding the rule about doubling on 10 and 11 only, on top of every possible bad rule already, is kind of egregious?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
miplet
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July 19th, 2011 at 8:34:36 PM permalink
I've always wondered if restricting to doubling down on 10, 11 only is worse for the casino. No doubling hard 12's, players screw up the soft double downs, ect.
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Wizard
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July 19th, 2011 at 8:40:33 PM permalink
Quote: miplet

I've always wondered if restricting to doubling down on 10, 11 only is worse for the casino. No doubling hard 12's, players screw up the soft double downs, ect.



I've never once seen anyone double are hard 12 or more in a casino. In live home games I've seen it. Fortunately, I was dealing at the time.

While the effect for the basic strategy player adds 0.18% to the house edge, in reality I think it adds much less. Some players do correctly double on 9, but only stone cold basic strategy players seem to know, or practice, the soft doubles.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
pocketaces
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July 19th, 2011 at 8:49:43 PM permalink
What I don't understand is why casinos would ever use the D10 rule on a shoe game. It of course pisses off all the knowledgeable players resulting in very few of them ever playing there (its not like they don't have thousands of other tables to go to). But perhaps even worse, the bad players that therefore have to fill the table are unable to double on all their hard 7s and 8s and many not-double-worthy soft hands. How is restricting things to the best doubles only even remotely smart for the casino? From the casino's perspective, at least 6-5 profits from people's ignorance. Of all the restricting rules, the double-on-10 rule is the one that serves nobody.

Basically, open the floodgates on doubles and everyone is happy. Caesar's management seems a little out to lunch.
pocketaces
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July 19th, 2011 at 8:55:48 PM permalink
I see a similar point was brought up before my post. I have seen hard 12s doubled several times, but strangely never once in Las Vegas.

One time a guy did it on every single 12, even against a 10 or ace. And he got a lot of 12s that night. The dealer tried to talk him out of it every time.
Tiltpoul
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July 19th, 2011 at 9:10:02 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I was on the Strip today, in part to update my blackjack survey. I was surprised to learn of of the following game at Caesar's Palace:

6 decks
Dealer hits soft 17
No double after split
No surrender
No re-splitting aces
And, get this, double on 10 and 11 only

Granted, it isn't as bad as 6-5. Is it just me or does anyone else think that adding the rule about doubling on 10 and 11 only, on top of every possible bad rule already, is kind of egregious?



I was at Caesars last week. I didn't see that rule on any 3-2 table, but I saw that rule on 6-5 in the Pleasure Pits. Not that I'm looking for that table, but where is it located? It must be in the "Colosseum" Pit.

And I can't believe you've NEVER seen anybody double a hard 12 at a table. I see it happen quite a bit.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
TIMSPEED
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July 19th, 2011 at 9:15:46 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I was on the Strip today, in part to update my blackjack survey. I was surprised to learn of of the following game at Caesar's Palace:
6 decks
Dealer hits soft 17
No double after split
No surrender
No re-splitting aces
And, get this, double on 10 and 11 only
Granted, it isn't as bad as 6-5. Is it just me or does anyone else think that adding the rule about doubling on 10 and 11 only, on top of every possible bad rule already, is kind of egregious?


Seems like a pretty common game in Reno...
Actually, they ADVERTISE that at Grand Sierra Resort (Signage saying "We allow doubling on 10 AND 11!"
Shit, I remember playing a $1 game at Fitz in Reno (on wednesday only) that had 1Deck/S17/DAS/Double-any...ahh the good ole days...
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
Wizard
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July 19th, 2011 at 9:39:04 PM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

Not that I'm looking for that table, but where is it located? It must be in the "Colosseum" Pit.

And I can't believe you've NEVER seen anybody double a hard 12 at a table. I see it happen quite a bit.



It was in the Pleasure Pit area. I don't go looking for player errors. Except for card counting purposes, I don't even look at other player's cards. So maybe it happens a lot but I just don't notice.

About Reno, yes, those are the typical rules in single deck! This was a six-deck game. That sign at the Grand Sierra reminds me of how the Casino Royale beckoned people inside with a continuous recording of a woman saying about their blackjack game, "You can even hit a soft 17!" As if other casinos don't allow that.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Tiltpoul
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July 19th, 2011 at 10:03:37 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

It was in the Pleasure Pit area.



Those are 6-5 tables on a six-deck game. And they were jam packed, even at 15 table mins.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
Wizard
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July 19th, 2011 at 10:27:12 PM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

Those are 6-5 tables on a six-deck game. And they were jam packed, even at 15 table mins.



You don't have to believe me, but the Current Blackjack Newsletter reports the same rules at Caesar's.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Tiltpoul
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July 19th, 2011 at 10:37:39 PM permalink
Interestingly enough, there is an electronic table with the fake dealer near that pit, close to the entrance over there. That machine is a $10 minimum, and 6-5 payout. That's the first time I've seen that on one of those machines.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
teddys
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July 19th, 2011 at 11:34:13 PM permalink
Someone's got to pay for all those Dolls and that Roman statuary. Ooo-eeee!
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JohnnyQ
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July 22nd, 2011 at 7:18:21 PM permalink
A general question:

How do you know what all the Double/Split/Surrender
rules are at any given game ?

Do you have to ask ?

Usually, I don't see them listed anywhere at the table.

And I feel silly if I ask.
There's emptiness behind their eyes There's dust in all their hearts They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
Wizard
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July 22nd, 2011 at 9:44:55 PM permalink
Quote: JohnnyQ

A general question:

How do you know what all the Double/Split/Surrender
rules are at any given game ?

Do you have to ask ?



Yes. I wish everybody would just post them, but they don't. For my blackjack survey I just have to ask the same questions over and over:

1. Can the player double after a split?
2. Can the player surrender?
3. Can the player re-split aces?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
HotBlonde
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July 22nd, 2011 at 11:22:47 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I was on the Strip today, in part to update my blackjack survey. I was surprised to learn of of the following game at Caesar's Palace:

6 decks
Dealer hits soft 17
No double after split
No surrender
No re-splitting aces
And, get this, double on 10 and 11 only

Granted, it isn't as bad as 6-5. Is it just me or does anyone else think that adding the rule about doubling on 10 and 11 only, on top of every possible bad rule already, is kind of egregious?

To me this is worrisome. It seems that a lot of casinos are getting stingier and stingier. That it's on a roll to get worse. Wasn't it at Bill's where every single table paid no more than 6-5? I usually prefer to play at the MGM casinos cuz they don't seem to be as bad as many of the other casinos.

And btw, what was the minimum on this table you're talking about?

Quote: Tiltpoul

And I can't believe you've NEVER seen anybody double a hard 12 at a table. I see it happen quite a bit.

Why would anyone double a hard 12? I'm assuming this is a card counting tactic?
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SOOPOO
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July 23rd, 2011 at 4:32:40 AM permalink
Quote: HotBlonde



Why would anyone double a hard 12? I'm assuming this is a card counting tactic?



It is either an I'm too stupid tactic or I'm too drunk tactic.
buzzpaff
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July 23rd, 2011 at 8:26:51 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I've never once seen anyone double are hard 12 or more in a casino. In live home games I've seen it. Fortunately, I was dealing at the time.

While the effect for the basic strategy player adds 0.18% to the house edge, in reality I think it adds much less. Some players do correctly double on 9, but only stone cold basic strategy players seem to know, or practice, the soft doubles.



Was standard play in Colorado for 20 years when Max bet was $5. Only way to get more action. And of course the infamous Colorado Split. Especially infuriating when 3rd base split 10's. The last 10 years DD hard 12 and split 10's diminished slightly
with introduction of Streak side bet. On my last visit to Blackhawk/ Central City, there was only 1 Streak table left due to limits now being $100. But Fortune Valley, formerly Harvey's, soon to be Hard Rock, still has Harvey's original, one and only, Wheel Of
Madness. LOL Colorado is strange, WIZ. Remember Let it Ride 10 years ago at the Isle where a side bet reduced the HE ???
hook3670
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July 28th, 2011 at 10:41:36 AM permalink
I was at the New Orleans harrah's about four years ago and there was a group of younger oriental gentlemen. They were pretty drunk and having a good time playing BJ. These guys doubled down on almost every hand. Hard 13's 14's didnt matter. At first it drew a lot of attenttion because they won their first two times, but they quickly got killed.
Tiltpoul
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September 1st, 2011 at 4:51:56 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I was on the Strip today, in part to update my blackjack survey. I was surprised to learn of of the following game at Caesar's Palace:

6 decks
Dealer hits soft 17
No double after split
No surrender
No re-splitting aces
And, get this, double on 10 and 11 only

Granted, it isn't as bad as 6-5. Is it just me or does anyone else think that adding the rule about doubling on 10 and 11 only, on top of every possible bad rule already, is kind of egregious?



I have a picture from the Pleasure Pit at Caesars. It is 6:5 on the BJ with all the rules you posted. I'm not sure how to load the picture up here, if anybody can help me...

The rules are the same for the poolside BJ as well.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
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