Rio hotel theft: did I make the wrong call?
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I have a very hard time believing that it was actually safer to take my money with me to the Poker Palace instead of hiding it in my backpack in my locked hotel room. Is this one of those situations where the right play produced an adverse result, or did I make the wrong play here?
I would also say that the hotel house-keeping staff should have a policy to have get the safe unlocked when a guest checks-out but leaves the safe locked.
Unfortunately, I had a similar experience at a resort in Mexico once upon a time.
Quote: rdw4potusI just returned from a trip to Vegas. I stayed at Rio from Monday-Saturday. I spent the week casino-hopping. On Thursday, I planned on going to the Poker Palace and Lucky Club in the evening. I left the hotel in the morning, and I had more cash than I wanted to take to those places (they're not exactly in a good part of town), so I left some cash in my room. The safe was closed and locked, so I put the cash in a second wallet, put the wallet in a zippered compartment inside a zippered section of my backpack, and put the backpack in the closet. I ended up having a great time at those establishments, and I felt safe at all times. However, when I returned to my hotel room, the excess cash was missing from my backpack. My room was only half-cleaned, and basically the part before the closet was cleaned and the part after the closet was untouched. Not a big mystery about who stole my money, but the folks at the Rio all told me that since it was cash that was stolen there was no way it could ever be proven.
I have a very hard time believing that it was actually safer to take my money with me to the Poker Palace instead of hiding it in my backpack in my locked hotel room. Is this one of those situations where the right play produced an adverse result, or did I make the wrong play here?
Leaving the cash exposed in the hotel room was orders of magnitude more risky than carrying it with you to the Pervert Palace and the Crud Club. As you are now all too aware, maids (who are paid subminimum wage) will often give the hotel room a thorough once-over before cleaning it. In contrast, in order for you to be robbed in a casino, a thief would have to be both aware that you were worth robbing, and bold enough to do so inside a casino (where the security guards are fed raw meat and wear choke collars).
Vegas is a town where just about everyone is carrying a large amount of cash. Unless you make yourself VERY conspicuous, there is no way that you will be targeted simply because you're carrying a wad. However, leaving the backpack with an easily searchable wallet in your hotel room was like leaving a raw steak in a lion's den. Consider this an expensive lesson.
A viable alternative would have been to store your excess cash in the Rio's casino cage.
What really makes me mad is places that charge for use of the safe, like the Hilton, to protect your stuff from their own staff. It is extortion -- pay for the safe or our maid will take your stuff. Agreed, housekeeping should check that when the last guest leaves the safe is open. As well, make sure the alarm isn't set on the clock radio.
I agree with reporting the theft anyway. You know it won't help you, but if the same maid keeps doing it, after enough accusations she will get fired. If it makes you feel any better, I had stuff stolen from my luggage last summer when I went to Alaska by the thieves at Alaska Airlines. I could have easily put a lock on my luggage, but just forgot.
So unfortunately your only recourse, as you mentioned, is probably to complain and if there are enough complaints, hopefully the airline will do something about it.
Huh? I don't understand how that matters. If it had been a diamond ring or an iPod, would that have been any harder/easier to prove? Sounds like Rio is performing poorly. I always leave stuff in the hotel room, often out in the open, relying on the honesty of the cleaning crew. I've never had anything stolen. Harrah's should at least have made a cursory attempt to get your money back. That is really shoddy of them, IMO.Quote: rdw4potusMy room was only half-cleaned, and basically the part before the closet was cleaned and the part after the closet was untouched. Not a big mystery about who stole my money, but the folks at the Rio all told me that since it was cash that was stolen there was no way it could ever be proven.
Quote: teddysHuh? I don't understand how that matters. If it had been a diamond ring or an iPod, would that have been any harder/easier to prove? Sounds like Rio is performing poorly. I always leave stuff in the hotel room, often out in the open, relying on the honesty of the cleaning crew. I've never had anything stolen. Harrah's should at least have made a cursory attempt to get your money back. That is really shoddy of them, IMO.
If they had taken my laptop or my company's laptop or my watch or anything else of value that was left out in the room, it would be a little more traceable (serial numbers/identifying marks, etc.). And insured. But cash is not insurable because verification is impossible. I'm literally just out the money.
And it's not like I thought I'd be robbed inside the Poker Palace or Lucky Club. More like in the parking lot or on the street. Or, I guess, like I'd be tempted to put the money in play when I really wanted to save it for Friday's play.
Quote: JohnnyQI thought the TSA now requires you NOT to lock your luggage, so they can search it during random screening.
So unfortunately your only recourse, as you mentioned, is probably to complain and if there are enough complaints, hopefully the airline will do something about it.
There are TSA authorized locks now, where airport security has the key. It wouldn't surprise me if the thieves in baggage handling manage to get these keys too, but having the lock would still improve your odds. I did not report the theft to Alaska Airlines because dozens of hands likely touched my luggage between Vegas and Anchorage, which included a change of planes in Seattle. It would have accomplished nothing. At least with the hotel room, you know specifically who is accused of the crime.
By the way, why would anybody go out of their way to the Poker Palace? That place is a D-I-V-E.
Quote: Wizard
By the way, why would anybody go out of their way to the Poker Palace? That place is a D-I-V-E.
Mostly, I wanted the $5 chip to collect. Though, I did end up playing for about an hour there. Thugs crack me up, and I was at a table full of them. They were very into the BJ game, and it was quite entertaining.
Quote: EvenBobHow much cash are we talking about? Several times when I've gone to Vegas, I carry extra cash in a prescription pill bottle. If you ask your pharamicist, they have brown plastic pill bottles that are the same diameter as a regular bottle, but a little taller. They are just as tall as US paper money, it turns out. I have taken up to $5,000 in $100 bills and rolled them very tight and they fit perfectly into the small pill bottle. I wear cargo pants and carry the bottle in a buttoned down pocket thats inside a big pocket thats also buttoned down. I never leave money in my room, even in a safe. I carry a few hundred in a clip for playing and if I need more, I go into a restroom stall and get it from the bottle. Its pickpocket proof and probably armed robbery proof. The bottle is so small, its opaque, and has a label on it, no crook would ever suspect it has money in it once I gave him my clip. I never feel good using a room safe, I don't trust anybody.
$700 was taken. I had $1000, took $300 with me, and left $700 in the room. I like the pill bottle idea. I have one of those rolled-bill holder things on my keychain at home, but I didn't bring it to Vegas. I kind of wish I did.
Quote: rdw4potus$700 was taken. I had $1000, took $300 with me, and left $700 in the room. I like the pill bottle idea. I have one of those rolled-bill holder things on my keychain at home, but I didn't bring it to Vegas. I kind of wish I did.
The bottle is so small, nobody thinks it has so money in it. Its a diversion tactic, kind of like magicians do. People believe what they think they see. Money is supposed to be in a wallet or a clip or folded in your pocket, not in a prescription pill bottle.
I was going to make a crack about the maid staff in most of the hotels I've stayed at in Vegas, but Nareed and a few others would call me a racist. Lord knows their are no crooks and thieves among illegal aliens. Thats just an urban legend.
What is more likely to happen though? Getting robbed on the street or getting "Cleaned Out" in the hotel room? I have to say I hear more personal stories of a bad housekeeper than I hear of a bad mugging.
For me, I think my money is safer in my control than out of it. Mind you I stick to the strip when I am there. Vegas is a very public place with a fair amount of security and police on the strip. If you are worried about getting mugged in a parking lot, use Valet Parking. Even if you went to not-so-nice area, I still think that second wallet with the 700 hundred would have been safer in your control than under your backpack's control (I also would have called down and had the safe unlocked if I was determined to leave cash behind). You can also get a traveller's wallet if you like the feeling of money wrapped around your balls!
Second: Cash is generally safer on your person than in your room, particularly at the Rio which seems to get mentioned frequently in this sort of thing.
Third: If something untoward should befall you, its often safer to have sufficient loot on you to insure the guy with his finger on the trigger is not angry at such a low score.
By the way, I do so hope you didn't go to any bar at the Rio and leave your drink unattended or turn away from your drink to look at an attractive young lady who suddenly materialized off to your side and started chatting with you. The Rio was featured in one incident I heard about but it was quite a while ago.
Quote: FleaStiff
By the way, I do so hope you didn't go to any bar at the Rio and leave your drink unattended or turn away from your drink to look at an attractive young lady who suddenly materialized off to your side and started chatting with you. The Rio was featured in one incident I heard about but it was quite a while ago.
Please elaborate.
It was quite some time ago but one male at a bar in the Rio got a date rape drug slipped in his drink and then as he was going under he was helped to his room by the hooker and her pimp and robbed.
I'd use a money belt or a "dealer's wallet" which is a velcro device worn around the leg.
The economy has nothing to do with it. There are scores of low-paid service workers in every corner of every big hotel in that town, and trusting these slugs is like trusting Fabio won't diddle your girlfriend if he were a houseguest and you had to go out of town for a few days.
I've never understood why people are afraid to carry their cash with them in LV. You don't carry a sign saying how much you have on you, and good & bad guys alike will wonder WTF you'd be doing there without cash anyway.
This is just too lacking in common sense to believe.
The same reason as for my only visit to the Poker Palace, except I collect the plain ol' ordinary $1 chips. Can't think of any reason I would ever go back, unless the place changes name and comes out with new chips to match.Quote: rdw4potusMostly, I wanted the $5 chip to collect. ...
I always either use the room safe, even if I have to pay for it, or get a safe-deposit box at the front desk (or sometimes in Vegas by the casino cage). The only things I leave in my room is stuff that can be easily replaced: clothes, toiletries, magazines, books, brochures, etc. Never jewelry, cash, cell phone, electronics, laptop (if I had one), ID and other documents (including credit cards and passport), or any other things of value.
I'm not saying you're to blame if you left valuables in your oom, or that you were asking to be robbed. Not at all. You were wronged and it sucks that the hotel won't do anything about it. But next time take better precautions.
Hmm. I wonder if there may be a market for hotel room insurance...
That said, I agree with others that safe > on-person > hidden in room. Yes it's crazy that the thieving made put so much effort into searching your stuff, but my impression is still that maids steal from rooms often, people are mugged rarely, and hotel safes are broken into very rarely (probably because staff would then know the maid was involved). If I heard lots of stories of safes being broken into (or if there was some sort of override a maid could use) I might be willing to rank things on-person > safe > hidden in room, but hidden in room will always be last. I also think it's an intriguing possibility that the maid closed the safe herself to raise her chances of finding something in the room, but who knows...
Is this based on any numbers, or just "common sense?" I have a hard time believing the chances of you getting mugged and shot with $300 but mugged at let go with $1,000 outweighs the general danger of carrying an extra $700 (loosing it, pickpockets, increased chance of being mugged period, plus any of the above is now much more costly).Quote: FleaStiff
Third: If something untoward should befall you, its often safer to have sufficient loot on you to insure the guy with his finger on the trigger is not angry at such a low score.
And there's the tipping point.Quote: teddysI think you should have filed a police report to show you were serious about the money being stolen....
If you're not gonna bother with the police report, the hotel is not gonna bother confronting the maid.
Quote: DJTeddyBearAnd there's the tipping point.
If you're not gonna bother with the police report, the hotel is not gonna bother confronting the maid.
Forget the police. He should be consulting with anyone who lives within the confines of common sense. Chalk it up to being one of those "teachable moments" Obama tries to squirm out of situations with.
1. "Some" crooks work for housekeeping, much in the same way crooks work as baggage handlers....but:
2. They [maids] should be given the benefit of the doubt, simply because the thief might be their supervisor, or some other maid, etc., and an honest maid could be wronglyfully fired. Also, some guests "take shots" with false claims after loosing their asses at the slots/tables, with NO housekeeping theft occuring. With THAT said, surveillance tapes of the hallway WOULD answer the question of "who."
3. The only thing maids can get away stealing is drugs, because a guest cannot claim that. ("Hey, I had two bundles of really great smack stolen from my room...call the cops!")
4. Housekeeping supervision has a pulse on who has "sticky fingers." Hotel management has crews who stay at rooms with marked goodies to check up on things, just as Casino management sends in false players (called "mystery shoppers") who play at tables to bust excessively rude dealers who cost them table games business.
5. If you did NOT get fleeced by them, DO tip the maid $3 a day as an amulet. Leave it on the dresser with a note that says "gracias" or "Khob Khun Krap."
"Teachable Moments:"
I would store cash in a false handle, panel, or wheel of a piece of luggage, or use travelers' checks, or keep cash on a debit "gift" card for myself.
While vacationing in Thailand, I kept countefeit money in a cheap decoy wallet for pick pockets, sometimes using "porno money." Armed robbery was virtually non-existent, but pick-pockets abound.
Quote: rdw4potusI just returned from a trip to Vegas. I stayed at Rio from Monday-Saturday. I spent the week casino-hopping. On Thursday, I planned on going to the Poker Palace and Lucky Club in the evening. I left the hotel in the morning, and I had more cash than I wanted to take to those places (they're not exactly in a good part of town), so I left some cash in my room. The safe was closed and locked, so I put the cash in a second wallet, put the wallet in a zippered compartment inside a zippered section of my backpack, and put the backpack in the closet. I ended up having a great time at those establishments, and I felt safe at all times. However, when I returned to my hotel room, the excess cash was missing from my backpack. My room was only half-cleaned, and basically the part before the closet was cleaned and the part after the closet was untouched. Not a big mystery about who stole my money, but the folks at the Rio all told me that since it was cash that was stolen there was no way it could ever be proven.
I have a very hard time believing that it was actually safer to take my money with me to the Poker Palace instead of hiding it in my backpack in my locked hotel room. Is this one of those situations where the right play produced an adverse result, or did I make the wrong play here?
Well, here's how you get the money back.. Hang around the next day (and make sure it's the same maid) for your room to be cleaned, and after the maid goes in your room, go in and close the door and start asking where your money is in a threatening way. Just make sure you're 100% sure you got the right person.
Quote: NareedI'm not saying you're to blame if you left valuables in your oom, or that you were asking to be robbed. Not at all. You were wronged and it sucks that the hotel won't do anything about it. But next time take better precautions.
AGREED. I think you have done a big service to everyone by posting this. I'm sorry for your misfortune but this is a good heads-up for the rest of us who could have just as easily done the same thing.
Quote: HcerWell, here's how you get the money back.. Hang around the next day (and make sure it's the same maid) for your room to be cleaned, and after the maid goes in your room, go in and close the door and start asking where your money is in a threatening way. Just make sure you're 100% sure you got the right person.
How would he know he has the right person? Of course the maid is going to claim, in Spanish, that somebody else cleaned the room yesterday. He wouldn't have any evidence to contradict that. Again, foiled by the "benefit of the doubt."
Quote: FleaStiffI think most street punks would take any pill container instantly .
Doubtful. They hit and run, once they got your wallet and clip, they'd be gone.
Quote: WizardHow would he know he has the right person? Of course the maid is going to claim, in Spanish,"
If I said that, Nareed would climb all over me. Yet in all my visits to Vegas, I have never seen a non Spanish housekeeper.
Quote: WizardOf course the maid is going to claim, in Spanish, that somebody else cleaned the room yesterday.
mi español no es tan bueno como mi francés, pero hablo un poco de español.
For what it's worth, I'd have confronted the maid (we crossed in the hall before she robbed me, but i never saw her again), but it really was a different maid the next day. If I was them, I would rotate duties that way for this specific reason.
Quote: teddysI would hope that the cleaning person would be fired immediately. I see no reason why they should be given the benefit of the doubt. They were the only ones who had access to the room. There are surveillance cameras in the hallways showing who enters/exits the rooms, making it pretty obvious who the person was. All the evidence is in your favor, and the Rio did you dirty by not following up on it. I think you should have filed a police report to show you were serious about the money being stolen, and insisted the hotel follow up in a significant way.
Hotel safes and hotel rooms are easily broken into these days by criminals. I'm told some hotels don't have cameras in hallways, but not sure if they were just told a lie by staff. Someone from another forum had a lot of money taken from safe in room and other stuff from room.
Hotel room hacking
http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml
Hotel safes unsafe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW7M84khZy8
Yup, I would keep the money on me, in lobby security box, place cash in cage to use as credit line, get check, or make a deposit at bank.
http://www.today.com/video/today/50100430
http://www.pokernews.com/news/2014/05/players-allege-theft-of-property-from-rio-hotel-rooms-18372.htm
PokerNews reached out to Nguyen to find out his side of the story in more than 140 characters. Here's what he told us:
I came to the Rio for the WSOP with my friend Jimmy Chen. He's a PLO cash game grinder. Jimmy and I checked into the Rio on May 27 around 6:30 p.m. We came to the room and dropped our bags off and went to dinner. When we got back to our room a total of $35,000 had been taken out of our bags. We got back to the room around midnight. Luckily we didn't have all of our money in one spot so all of it wasn't taken. It didn't look like they went through any of my other stuff. Nothing else was taken. Room was not messy almost as if they knew to check the backpacks. I called the police and Rio security and filed a report. I find out that there are no security cameras in the Rio hallways, only in the elevators, and that we are just basically screwed.
Nothing is safe enough in a hotel room unless you're the only one inside it and it's locked from the inside. You can blame the hotel or the hotel can blame your guests. Hotels I wish would be more proactive advising a more secure place like their own safe. They don't want to be bothered though and would rather take their chances fighting guests about liability. You have to protect yourself but unfortunately most people don't know what we know. It always bothers me when people do know not to trust their property as safe in a room, they ignore it keeping cash and electronics there anyways.Quote: EdgeLookerPoker Players Allege Theft of Property from Rio Hotel Rooms
http://www.pokernews.com/news/2014/05/players-allege-theft-of-property-from-rio-hotel-rooms-18372.htm
PokerNews reached out to Nguyen to find out his side of the story in more than 140 characters. Here's what he told us:
I came to the Rio for the WSOP with my friend Jimmy Chen. He's a PLO cash game grinder. Jimmy and I checked into the Rio on May 27 around 6:30 p.m. We came to the room and dropped our bags off and went to dinner. When we got back to our room a total of $35,000 had been taken out of our bags. We got back to the room around midnight. Luckily we didn't have all of our money in one spot so all of it wasn't taken. It didn't look like they went through any of my other stuff. Nothing else was taken. Room was not messy almost as if they knew to check the backpacks. I called the police and Rio security and filed a report. I find out that there are no security cameras in the Rio hallways, only in the elevators, and that we are just basically screwed.
Quote: onenickelmiracleNothing is safe enough in a hotel room unless you're the only one inside it and it's locked from the inside. You can blame the hotel or the hotel can blame your guests. Hotels I wish would be more proactive advising a more secure place like their own safe. They don't want to be bothered though and would rather take their chances fighting guests about liability. You have to protect yourself but unfortunately most people don't know what we know. It always bothers me when people do know not to trust their property as safe in a room, they ignore it keeping cash and electronics there anyways.
I would bet that in this case, if they had put their cash in the hotel safe, it wouldn't have been stolen.
I "trust" hotel safes with my bankroll quite often. By "trust" I mean that I understand there is still a non-zero probability it will be stolen, but I believe that probability is much lower than if I just left it in my backpack or luggage. A random thief using one of those hooks or hacking the card-key lock probably isn't going to take the time to break into the hotel safe; they will likely just rifle through your luggage and take whatever cash/valuables they find.
On my last trip to Vegas, the safe in our room at the Flamingo was closed and locked when we arrived. We had to call a technician to open it. So obviously it can be opened by hotel staff as well. In this case of the poker players, it very well may have been hotel staff breaking into their room, but you never know. They would either have to be the person who knows how to get the safe open, or be in cooperation with that person.
It's a balancing act really...what's more likely, that someone will rob me out on the street and take the cash in my money belt? Or someone will break into my room and the safe and take that cash? Like investing, I try to diversify my risks :). I usually leave about half in the safe and take half with me, depending on my total roll for the trip.
Quote: rdw4potusI just returned from a trip to Vegas. I stayed at Rio from Monday-Saturday. I spent the week casino-hopping. On Thursday, I planned on going to the Poker Palace and Lucky Club in the evening. I left the hotel in the morning, and I had more cash than I wanted to take to those places (they're not exactly in a good part of town), so I left some cash in my room. The safe was closed and locked, so I put the cash in a second wallet, put the wallet in a zippered compartment inside a zippered section of my backpack, and put the backpack in the closet. I ended up having a great time at those establishments, and I felt safe at all times. However, when I returned to my hotel room, the excess cash was missing from my backpack. My room was only half-cleaned, and basically the part before the closet was cleaned and the part after the closet was untouched. Not a big mystery about who stole my money, but the folks at the Rio all told me that since it was cash that was stolen there was no way it could ever be proven.
I have a very hard time believing that it was actually safer to take my money with me to the Poker Palace instead of hiding it in my backpack in my locked hotel room. Is this one of those situations where the right play produced an adverse result, or did I make the wrong play here?
Wrong play baby. Get a money belt and you will never get robbed:
http://www.noambit.com/wp-content/uploads/moneybelt.jpg
