well, so much for that theory

I had long been convinced that the Total Rewards ratings I was receiving was based mainly on my buy-in. I generally only play craps, and noticed that my tier credits would match my buy-in for a session at $5 = 1 Tier credit. So a buy-in of $500 would earn me 100 Tier credits. I have checked my Total Rewards points after enough sessions to feel comfortable that this was their method of rating. Obviously, someone could 'game' their Tier score by having a huge buy-in and then only play the table minimum under this formula, but I figured Harrah's didn't care.

Then Friday morning I drove to Shreveport and played craps. I bought in for $500, played for about two hours, and then left. When I checked my Tier score on Saturday, it had increased by 500 points. So much for that theory. Back to the drawing board.

My average bet moved from $22 to $44 to $125 on my last roll. I'm wondering if the boost was due to the action on the last roll.

I believe your theory was flawed from the start. I have observed nothing over the years that makes me think Buy In has anything to do with Tier Credits. Time of play and Average bet is what should be determining what they give you. However there is no consistency in this and it really is it to the PB and what he sees and enters. Also on craps my understanding is that Odds bets do not count toward your average bet, only your line bets.

Tipping seems to also help, but with the small level of comps craps players get, I would not tip expecting more points, only because you want to do it.

But also, I don't think anyone, including Caesars employees understands exactly how it works.

Quote: Boz

But also, I don't think anyone, including Caesars employees understands exactly how it works.

That right there is probably the crux of the matter.

Let's take it sequentially:

You start out with a buy in and that may or may not be indicative of your style of play but its a starting point. Heaven knows a good many crews get pissed off with large buyins that fizzle to small potatoes action.

Of course tipping will help maintain your initial image, so you can start out with a huge buy-in and tip well ... but every casino will look eventually at what really matters to them... what is your ACTION, not your IMAGE. They take your average bet and they take your time at table (yeah, they are "estimates".... they are busy too, you know) that is what counts. And if you get whimsical from time to time, they remember that and sort of up your average. Also if you are seen to be doing the Lord's Work (ie, tipping) that always impresses them, so you get a little "halo" for that which will linger for some time.

Even a casino that really wants you to do nothing but press a red button on a slot machine all the time, they know that Buy Ins don't count anywhere near as much as how much money you actually put at risk and how long you do it for. That is the true measure of your value to the casino. Back in the days of handwriting and index cards and discrete hand signals in French salons, they didn't even write down if you won or lost, just what money you risked! Now with computers they track everything, but still value the most what is most important to them: Amount Risked times Time at Table times House Edge! Nice guy or real prick, it all boils down to money.

Quote: Boz

I believe your theory was flawed from the start. I have observed nothing over the years that makes me think Buy In has anything to do with Tier Credits. Time of play and Average bet is what should be determining what they give you. However there is no consistency in this and it really is it to the PB and what he sees and enters. Also on craps my understanding is that Odds bets do not count toward your average bet, only your line bets.

Tipping seems to also help, but with the small level of comps craps players get, I would not tip expecting more points, only because you want to do it.

But also, I don't think anyone, including Caesars employees understands exactly how it works.

The PB only counts your line bet and what you have on the table, no free odds. I had a dealer tell me this one time.

My understanding is that as long as you average $15 per bet, you should be getting some type of comps.

As far as earning comps playing craps, I would say that the best/ worst time to play is grave yard when it's slow. If you tend to make a big bet or rebuy every now n then at a busy time, more then likely it is not going to be noticed. But during slower times it will be noticed and put into their touch screen machine. My biggest wins/ wildest betting has occurred during these times and I have been surprised to see how many tc/rc's I have earned the following day. However, I should not that from what I have witnessed, if you are betting in excess of 25 on pass/don't pass or per placed number, with odds then you are getting your bets logged regardless of time and busyness unless there are way bigger players.

Yeah tier scores for table games is some magic formula with the main factors being:

avg. bet x time played.

Quote: FleaStiff

Also if you are seen to be doing the Lord's Work (ie, tipping) that always impresses them, so you get a little "halo" for that which will linger for some time.
.

I've seen similar remarks on many threads here. How do you think this works in practice? Somehow your tipping frequency would have to be communicated into the system in some fashion. Do they maybe increase your avg bet slightly in the system? Is there something like a 1-5 rating in terms of your attractiveness as a player (1 being low buy in, low avg bet, no tipping, poor etiquette; 5 being large buy in, lots of action, frequent tipper, good overall customer)?

I tip fairly generously but always wondered if my ratings ever considered that as a factor in terms of my value as a patron. Any thoughts?

Ratings can depend on if the floor likes you or not.I have known many floors who would either raise or lower a rating depending on the customer.

Always become friendly with the floor manager. In places I routinely play tables it helps a lot. I once informed a manager I raised my bet to 30 from 15 and he said don't worry I have had you at 50 the whole time.

Quote: gts4ever

Somehow your tipping frequency would have to be communicated into the system in some fashion.

Not at all. Your tipping patterns are part of their general impression of you. If they have a good impression of you, and they happen to be busy elsewhere they may leave you alone for awhile. They may enter your "average bet" a bit higher than otherwise. The Floor Person knows if the dealers like you or not, the Floor Person knows if you tip promptly upon your arrival or not, you get a little "halo effect" for being a nice guy. Its not as if he is going to phone his unmarried daughter for you or anything, but he might round your average bet up a bit. He might give you the benefit of the doubt on some call bet or some mistake. Its not going to be major but it won't hurt. One thing that might be nice for a thread here is to take a look at the Input Screen available to the Floor Man. You can see that many of the programs offered to casinos only have limited data entry options for player tracking, but the person making the entries is human. He recalls if you were pleasant even if he had to spend much of his time at other tables, he recalls the crew's impressions of you because a crew member often is greeting you by name even if you are still handing your card over to the Floor Person. Floor Persons are getting more and more tables to take care of these days. Its probably not a good trend, but its the way it is. Any of these little things that influence the Floor Person's impression of you will not hurt you and generally will help you.

Well stated, FleaStiff.