End of the road for Lake Mead??
https://apnews.com/article/colorado-river-arizona-california-nevada-drought-climate-change-85bfbc63bfc6590613bb142347e1a014
A deal where 3 states agree to use less water for a federal incentive.
Quote: DieterSent to my news feed today:
https://apnews.com/article/colorado-river-arizona-california-nevada-drought-climate-change-85bfbc63bfc6590613bb142347e1a014
A deal where 3 states agree to use less water for a federal incentive.
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I don't think this is a solution but it is a first step towards resolving the problem. The majority party in the Arizona legislature is already speaking out against the deal, on the grounds it makes sense.
Quote: ChumpChangeLake Mead could rise from 1045 feet to 1075 feet by early next year because of the massive snow melt going on right now. So that may defer the mass evacuation from the Southwest for an extra year, from 2024-25 to one year later. Lake Powell is going up a foot a day recently.
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That massive snowmelt is impressive. I usually keep out of the southwest, but the Wisconsin River and Mississippi River have been very high for a few months. Rivers along my path in Washington, Idaho, and Montana have seemed unusually dramatic.
They'd look stunning with some long exposure photography, if anyone still runs a darkroom.
How will Las Vegas do with 13% less water?
Quote: DRichYou people don't really think there would be a case where it runs out do you? Everything is available if you are willing to pay a premium for it.
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If they run out of people willing to pay an extreme premium it becomes a distinction without a difference though? Or we just have Palm Springs, San Diego, elite suburbs, and Sedona remaining?
Hey SoCal….”Get ready to speak yooper, buddy”
Quote: gordonm888Actually, Arizona is the state that gets screwed in this agreement, they will lose the largest fraction of their water. This forum may need to take up a bottled water collection for billryan.
How will Las Vegas do with 13% less water?
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One less ice cube per drink served would be a start. Not a great start, but it would show how we are all in this together.
As an Eagle Scout project, a Midwest scout went door to door handing out bricks. A brick in an older toilet tank reduces each flush by about two liters There must be 10 million flushes a day within the six states. Put the brick in a plastic bag to avoid it crumbling.
The average shower takes 15 gallons of water. If a million people take one less shower per week, that's 15 million gallons a week saved. Over a year, thats 750 million gallons saved.
WE CAN DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote: billryanThe average shower takes 15 gallons of water. If a million people take one less shower per week, that's 15 million gallons a week saved. Over a year, thats 750 million gallons saved.
WE CAN DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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(trimmed)
Isn't 750 million gallons over 247 square miles about 1/100th of an inch?
I have nothing against showering like Tank Girl, but I would hope the results are more obvious.
We need to take baby steps before we can try to learn how to fly.
Quote: DRichYou people don't really think there would be a case where it runs out do you? Everything is available if you are willing to pay a premium for it.
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You do not seem to understand that it does not have to "run out" totally. All you need is spot shortages to cause massive issues. Imagine if they said they would rig your water meter so you only get so much and no more. You would have panic. You would have an economy in collapse.
I maintain my position that desalination is the only long-term solution to societies that want to live in deserts. Demographically we will have population decline in 60-80 years and then population collapse 100 years after that, solving the demand problems. But we do not have 100 years. The American southwest probably has 15 at this rate. When water no longer flows over the dams the CA farmers will be told no water is coming. Then watch what happens.
I guess water was probably a factor many times over in history for this sort of thing. If it hadn't been for gambling, Vegas probably would be a small town with an Air force base as the main employer. What else do we produce in Vegas? Rock as in the mineral?
Is this already common in the Las Vegas area?
Quote: DieterI hear in some drought prone areas, people have cisterns for water (possibly in addition to city water) and hire trucks to regularly refill the supply.
Is this already common in the Las Vegas area?
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It is not because it really hasn't been a problem yet. The first step will be to remove all green areas such as golf courses and grass lawns. That would probably be enough to eliminate the problem in Vegas.
Quote: DRichQuote: DieterI hear in some drought prone areas, people have cisterns for water (possibly in addition to city water) and hire trucks to regularly refill the supply.
Is this already common in the Las Vegas area?
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It is not because it really hasn't been a problem yet. The first step will be to remove all green areas such as golf courses and grass lawns. That would probably be enough to eliminate the problem in Vegas.
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How about eliminating all the fountains and water features at casinos, particularly Bellagio?
I am pessimistic about Lake Meade's future. I think it's the Cytodyn of U.S. lakes.
Quote: gordonm888Quote: DRichQuote: DieterI hear in some drought prone areas, people have cisterns for water (possibly in addition to city water) and hire trucks to regularly refill the supply.
Is this already common in the Las Vegas area?
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It is not because it really hasn't been a problem yet. The first step will be to remove all green areas such as golf courses and grass lawns. That would probably be enough to eliminate the problem in Vegas.
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How about eliminating all the fountains and water features at casinos, particularly Bellagio?
I am pessimistic about Lake Meade's future. I think it's the Cytodyn of U.S. lakes.
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Fountains do not consume much water, they just hold it. Thus I doubt they matter much.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: gordonm888Quote: DRichQuote: DieterI hear in some drought prone areas, people have cisterns for water (possibly in addition to city water) and hire trucks to regularly refill the supply.
Is this already common in the Las Vegas area?
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It is not because it really hasn't been a problem yet. The first step will be to remove all green areas such as golf courses and grass lawns. That would probably be enough to eliminate the problem in Vegas.
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How about eliminating all the fountains and water features at casinos, particularly Bellagio?
I am pessimistic about Lake Meade's future. I think it's the Cytodyn of U.S. lakes.
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Fountains do not consume much water, they just hold it. Thus I doubt they matter much.
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Mr. Duffman, may i introduce you to Mr. Evaporation?
Quote: gordonm888Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: gordonm888Quote: DRichQuote: DieterI hear in some drought prone areas, people have cisterns for water (possibly in addition to city water) and hire trucks to regularly refill the supply.
Is this already common in the Las Vegas area?
link to original post
It is not because it really hasn't been a problem yet. The first step will be to remove all green areas such as golf courses and grass lawns. That would probably be enough to eliminate the problem in Vegas.
link to original post
How about eliminating all the fountains and water features at casinos, particularly Bellagio?
I am pessimistic about Lake Meade's future. I think it's the Cytodyn of U.S. lakes.
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Fountains do not consume much water, they just hold it. Thus I doubt they matter much.
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Mr. Duffman, may i introduce you to Mr. Evaporation?
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You mean the same evaporation that is happening on the lake itself?
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: gordonm888Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: gordonm888Quote: DRichQuote: DieterI hear in some drought prone areas, people have cisterns for water (possibly in addition to city water) and hire trucks to regularly refill the supply.
Is this already common in the Las Vegas area?
link to original post
It is not because it really hasn't been a problem yet. The first step will be to remove all green areas such as golf courses and grass lawns. That would probably be enough to eliminate the problem in Vegas.
link to original post
How about eliminating all the fountains and water features at casinos, particularly Bellagio?
I am pessimistic about Lake Meade's future. I think it's the Cytodyn of U.S. lakes.
link to original post
Fountains do not consume much water, they just hold it. Thus I doubt they matter much.
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Mr. Duffman, may i introduce you to Mr. Evaporation?
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You mean the same evaporation that is happening on the lake itself?
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Evaporation is a function of surface area exposed to atmosphere. When you decrease the depth of a lake by removing water from it and put that water in shallow Bellagio ponds, and spray that water as fountain jets into the hot Vegas air, you accelerate the evaporation process over what it would have been if you had left the water in the lake. Vegas hotels/casinos with water features have very substantial water bills because they are consuming water and constantly replacing evaporation losses with new water.
This kind of water use is frivolous. I expect that Vegas will lose its fountains in the coming years.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: gordonm888Quote: DRichQuote: DieterI hear in some drought prone areas, people have cisterns for water (possibly in addition to city water) and hire trucks to regularly refill the supply.
Is this already common in the Las Vegas area?
link to original post
It is not because it really hasn't been a problem yet. The first step will be to remove all green areas such as golf courses and grass lawns. That would probably be enough to eliminate the problem in Vegas.
link to original post
How about eliminating all the fountains and water features at casinos, particularly Bellagio?
I am pessimistic about Lake Meade's future. I think it's the Cytodyn of U.S. lakes.
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Fountains do not consume much water, they just hold it. Thus I doubt they matter much.
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You must be forgetting the Las vegas summer temperatures. My swimming pool would evaporate a half inch per day in the summer. I can't even imagine how much water the Bellagio fountain loses in a year.
The announcement Thursday by Gov. Katie Hobbs represents a major shift for one of the fastest-growing metropolitan areas in the country and is expected to hinder development in some suburbs that have been springing up in the desert around Phoenix.
Quote: rxwine[Arizona’s governor has announced plans to limit new construction in parts of the Phoenix area after a state analysis found there isn’t enough groundwater to support all the planned growth in the coming decades.
The announcement Thursday by Gov. Katie Hobbs represents a major shift for one of the fastest-growing metropolitan areas in the country and is expected to hinder development in some suburbs that have been springing up in the desert around Phoenix.
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That is an excellent first step. Of course, she is already under attack for the loss of thousands of construction jobs, and the canceled projects would have leaned in a different direction than she does.
Quote: DieterQuote: billryanThe average shower takes 15 gallons of water. If a million people take one less shower per week, that's 15 million gallons a week saved. Over a year, thats 750 million gallons saved.
WE CAN DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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(trimmed)
Isn't 750 million gallons over 247 square miles about 1/100th of an inch?
I have nothing against showering like Tank Girl, but I would hope the results are more obvious.
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By my calculations, it is:
(750 million gallons x 231 cubic inches per gallon)
divided by (247 square miles x (5280 x 12)^2 square inches per square mile)
= 0.17472 inches, or slightly more than 1/6 of an inch.
Thanks!
Quote: ThatDonGuyQuote: DieterQuote: billryanThe average shower takes 15 gallons of water. If a million people take one less shower per week, that's 15 million gallons a week saved. Over a year, thats 750 million gallons saved.
WE CAN DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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(trimmed)
Isn't 750 million gallons over 247 square miles about 1/100th of an inch?
I have nothing against showering like Tank Girl, but I would hope the results are more obvious.
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By my calculations, it is:
(750 million gallons x 231 cubic inches per gallon)
divided by (247 square miles x (5280 x 12)^2 square inches per square mile)
= 0.17472 inches, or slightly more than 1/6 of an inch.
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Keep the momentum going!!!!!!!!
Quote: gordonm888Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: gordonm888Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: gordonm888Quote: DRichQuote: DieterI hear in some drought prone areas, people have cisterns for water (possibly in addition to city water) and hire trucks to regularly refill the supply.
Is this already common in the Las Vegas area?
link to original post
It is not because it really hasn't been a problem yet. The first step will be to remove all green areas such as golf courses and grass lawns. That would probably be enough to eliminate the problem in Vegas.
link to original post
How about eliminating all the fountains and water features at casinos, particularly Bellagio?
I am pessimistic about Lake Meade's future. I think it's the Cytodyn of U.S. lakes.
link to original post
Fountains do not consume much water, they just hold it. Thus I doubt they matter much.
link to original post
Mr. Duffman, may i introduce you to Mr. Evaporation?
link to original post
You mean the same evaporation that is happening on the lake itself?
link to original post
Evaporation is a function of surface area exposed to atmosphere. When you decrease the depth of a lake by removing water from it and put that water in shallow Bellagio ponds, and spray that water as fountain jets into the hot Vegas air, you accelerate the evaporation process over what it would have been if you had left the water in the lake. Vegas hotels/casinos with water features have very substantial water bills because they are consuming water and constantly replacing evaporation losses with new water.
This kind of water use is frivolous. I expect that Vegas will lose its fountains in the coming years.
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Yes, you accelerate it, but I doubt by a meaningful amount. Not as big as all the HOAs who force people to irrigate lawns in a flipping desert yet ban zero-scaping to save water.
I don’t know how many Lake Mead would take, but I suspect the fish would be dead soon.
2024: 1073.72
2023: 1046.98
2022: 1067.05
2021: 1086.85
2020: 1094.88
2019: 1085.79
Full pool is 1229.00, and we're about 155.25 feet below that. The lowest level was 1040.71 on 7/27/23, 195 days ago. This works out to an average rise of 2.03 inches per day.
Mt. Charleston has over a foot of new snow this week, and Lee Canyon has a base of 62". Most of the mountains in the watershed are getting hammered with massive snowfalls. I would not be surprised to see the lake go above 1100 by the end of April.
Quote: BillHasRetiredWhat a difference a year (or several) makes. On this date, according to LakesOnline.com, the Lake Mead water levels were:
2024: 1073.72
2023: 1046.98
2022: 1067.05
2021: 1086.85
2020: 1094.88
2019: 1085.79
Full pool is 1229.00, and we're about 155.25 feet below that. The lowest level was 1040.71 on 7/27/23, 195 days ago. This works out to an average rise of 2.03 inches per day.
Mt. Charleston has over a foot of new snow this week, and Lee Canyon has a base of 62". Most of the mountains in the watershed are getting hammered with massive snowfalls. I would not be surprised to see the lake go above 1100 by the end of April.
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Perhaps the less snow period was just one of those trends. Of course one good year does not change a trend. But by the same token it shows why we should not be alarmist because of even two decades of lower than average snowfall.
Quote: ChumpChangeWe were 2 years away from having to evacuate the entire Southwest, maybe that's been pushed back to 2027 by now. The alarm is necessary. This past summer has been all snow melt all the time and it's been raising the desert water levels, and there were even some flooding rains in the summer that washed out roads again. El Niño is back they say, and may be bringing the pineapple express to the west coast this week with a foot of rain and hurricane force winds and power outages in the hundreds of thousands. If the snow piles up like last winter, Lake Mead could recover another couple dozen feet over the summer during snow melt season in 2024. But some previous summers have had no summer snow melt around to raise Lake Mead's levels, and that's when the lake levels dropped precipitously.
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The American southwest is not meant for inhabitation at anywhere near the levels we have. Nature just cannot support it forever. Sooner or later we are going to have to go to desalination on a huge scale. We would do well to ask Israel to consult on this as they did the job on a place even less inhabitable than what we have. The question remains the same. Did we have outside the norm snowpack and thus water for Lake Mead for the 100 or so years 1900-2000 or was it outside the norm since then? IOW, does it seem low now because it was high before?
It will take perhaps 1000 years to get enough of a trendline. I continue to predict humanity will die out before that.
Quote: ChumpChangeThe 20+ years of extreme drought is not normal and the low water levels are not normal, and the high populations are not normal, and the "conserve water or else" laws are not normal, and entire towns running out of water are not normal. I'm sure somebody could notice the UV index of the sun is not normal either.
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We do not know if it is normal or not. We’ve only been in that area 160 years or so. Drought might well be normal in a dry area.
I was out in Vegas for the past couple of weeks, and I saw a lot of newspieces ripping California for wasting water, and commercials about water conservation. It's not just from the government, either. Companies are plumping how their products conserve water, or are made with recycled water, etc. It's a bandwagon.
True, the desert cannot support the levels of humanity that are out here. But you can say that about almost any biome on Earth: mankind lives with risk wherever he goes. Look at Naples, with Mt. Vesuvius looming over it, or San Francisco, with a "62% probability of one or more magnitude 6.7 or greater earthquakes from 2003 to 2032". All these populations are subject to the whims of nature. And they've been wiped out before, and humans still migrate to these dangerous and/or inhospitable areas, clear out an area, and build a dwelling, and the cycle repeats.
Quote: BillHasRetiredWell, one thing that the past five years have done is move the 'conserve' position another notch on the ratchet. Lawns are out, xerescape is in. It's not an instant transformation at all, but a lot more of a societal movement.
Is that how you spell that? I heard it pronounced "zeroscape" but never saw it spelled out.
In any case, population collapse will start hitting the world in about 50 years with a leveling off a few years before that. in 150 years we may have 6 billion fewer people on earth than we have now. When we get thru that hump all will be well again. I figure to be gone from all this in 15-20 years so I wish you all luck.
The real spelling is "xeriscape", it comes from the Greek prefix 'xero', meaning 'dry'. Another word using the same prefix is xerostomia, meaning 'dry mouth'.Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: BillHasRetiredWell, one thing that the past five years have done is move the 'conserve' position another notch on the ratchet. Lawns are out, xerescape is in. It's not an instant transformation at all, but a lot more of a societal movement.
Is that how you spell that? I heard it pronounced "zeroscape" but never saw it spelled out.
{snip}
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People also use 'zeroscape' to mean no water. I do find it fascinating that this word, beginning with an X, is (correctly) pronounced using the Z sound, whereas Professor Xavier in the X-Men franchise is pronounced beginning with the 'Ecks' sound. The name of the letter is Ecks, the pronunciation is Z....but that's apparently changing.
Quote: BillHasRetiredThe real spelling is "xeriscape", it comes from the Greek prefix 'xero', meaning 'dry'. Another word using the same prefix is xerostomia, meaning 'dry mouth'.Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: BillHasRetiredWell, one thing that the past five years have done is move the 'conserve' position another notch on the ratchet. Lawns are out, xerescape is in. It's not an instant transformation at all, but a lot more of a societal movement.
Is that how you spell that? I heard it pronounced "zeroscape" but never saw it spelled out.
{snip}
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People also use 'zeroscape' to mean no water. I do find it fascinating that this word, beginning with an X, is (correctly) pronounced using the Z sound, whereas Professor Xavier in the X-Men franchise is pronounced beginning with the 'Ecks' sound. The name of the letter is Ecks, the pronunciation is Z....but that's apparently changing.
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Cool. I think I saw it spelled my way but I like the concept either spelling. What is needed is to ban HOAs from prohibiting the practice. Lawns in AZ, NV, and parts of CA are such a waste I almost get sick over it.
Quote: AZDuffman
Cool. I think I saw it spelled my way but I like the concept either spelling. What is needed is to ban HOAs from prohibiting the practice. Lawns in AZ, NV, and parts of CA are such a waste I almost get sick over it.
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We have strict quoting rules on this board so I will leave this whole paragraph intact. But lemme fix that for you.
Quote:
What is needed is to ban HOAs from prohibiting the practice.
There, that's better.
Quote: rxwineI don't know why people think manicured lawns and all the landscaping involved is such a great thing. Years ago, I visited my sister in the house she was living in at the time and even though the area was identical to a standard looking suburb, the whole place was wooded except concrete driveways and the road itself. She never had to do anything except hire tree guys to cut dead limbs off so they wouldn't fall on your head. Didn't even water it. Just went all natural. Where you wanted to walk you had paths. Really nice being there. Years later i visited and she had moved. I asked her why, and the guy she married had insisted on a more upscale house in a typical neighborhood. She never told him, but she always regretted that.
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Love or hate HOAs is one of the great dividing lines of modern America. There are people who like everything just so and thus cede their own freedom to have it that way. They tend to be Karens who are, well, Karens. I keep waiting for some smart pol to put up a "Homeowner's Bill of Rights" to rein in what has become a money-making venture and often borders on mafia-style running of the place. Fortunately for me HOAs have not taken near the hold in my part of the USA.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: rxwineI don't know why people think manicured lawns and all the landscaping involved is such a great thing. Years ago, I visited my sister in the house she was living in at the time and even though the area was identical to a standard looking suburb, the whole place was wooded except concrete driveways and the road itself. She never had to do anything except hire tree guys to cut dead limbs off so they wouldn't fall on your head. Didn't even water it. Just went all natural. Where you wanted to walk you had paths. Really nice being there. Years later i visited and she had moved. I asked her why, and the guy she married had insisted on a more upscale house in a typical neighborhood. She never told him, but she always regretted that.
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Love or hate HOAs is one of the great dividing lines of modern America. There are people who like everything just so and thus cede their own freedom to have it that way. They tend to be Karens who are, well, Karens. I keep waiting for some smart pol to put up a "Homeowner's Bill of Rights" to rein in what has become a money-making venture and often borders on mafia-style running of the place. Fortunately for me HOAs have not taken near the hold in my part of the USA.
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This is just such a stupid post. Really. IF it was somehow hidden that there was a HOA with its rules and regulations BEFORE you bought your house I’d agree with you 100%. I may (at some point) buy a house in The Villages. I think they may have more rules/regulations than anywhere! And you know what, having spent 3 separate months there, those R and R’s make the place great. You can’t find a house whose yard is not well maintained. The common areas are immaculate. Drive a mile out of The Villages and it doesn’t look or feel as nice.
The common charges are less than $200 a month. Public pools everywhere. Golf INCLUDED. Pickleball/Bocce/Tennis/Basketball/ Dog parks/Squares with free entertainment.
If it makes you feel good to call me a Karen, go for it.
No one is making you buy a house in an area with an HOA. Remind me what you are getting for your non HOA house. Oh yeah, ‘freedom’.
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: rxwineI don't know why people think manicured lawns and all the landscaping involved is such a great thing. Years ago, I visited my sister in the house she was living in at the time and even though the area was identical to a standard looking suburb, the whole place was wooded except concrete driveways and the road itself. She never had to do anything except hire tree guys to cut dead limbs off so they wouldn't fall on your head. Didn't even water it. Just went all natural. Where you wanted to walk you had paths. Really nice being there. Years later i visited and she had moved. I asked her why, and the guy she married had insisted on a more upscale house in a typical neighborhood. She never told him, but she always regretted that.
link to original post
Love or hate HOAs is one of the great dividing lines of modern America. There are people who like everything just so and thus cede their own freedom to have it that way. They tend to be Karens who are, well, Karens. I keep waiting for some smart pol to put up a "Homeowner's Bill of Rights" to rein in what has become a money-making venture and often borders on mafia-style running of the place. Fortunately for me HOAs have not taken near the hold in my part of the USA.
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This is just such a stupid post. Really. IF it was somehow hidden that there was a HOA with its rules and regulations BEFORE you bought your house I’d agree with you 100%. I may (at some point) buy a house in The Villages. I think they may have more rules/regulations than anywhere! And you know what, having spent 3 separate months there, those R and R’s make the place great. You can’t find a house whose yard is not well maintained. The common areas are immaculate. Drive a mile out of The Villages and it doesn’t look or feel as nice.
The common charges are less than $200 a month. Public pools everywhere. Golf INCLUDED. Pickleball/Bocce/Tennis/Basketball/ Dog parks/Squares with free entertainment.
If it makes you feel good to call me a Karen, go for it.
No one is making you buy a house in an area with an HOA. Remind me what you are getting for your non HOA house. Oh yeah, ‘freedom’.
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Which color loofa will you be parading on your golf cart?
Quote: SOOPOONo one is making you buy a house in an area with an HOA. Remind me what you are getting for your non HOA house. Oh yeah, ‘freedom’.
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An HOA in a residential retirement resort like The Villages probably makes sense.
An HOA in a more diverse community often introduces unnecessary problems.
I personally like being able to walk* 2 blocks to the taqueria/meat market, having the kindergartener walk directly across the street to school, and knowing that the next door neighbor isn't going to get harassed if he leaves his garage door up while wrenching on his motorcycle or old cars.
I'm sure someone has figured out how to hit up the neighborhood for Girl Scout Cookies. If they haven't, that's what your HOA costs you.
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: rxwineI don't know why people think manicured lawns and all the landscaping involved is such a great thing. Years ago, I visited my sister in the house she was living in at the time and even though the area was identical to a standard looking suburb, the whole place was wooded except concrete driveways and the road itself. She never had to do anything except hire tree guys to cut dead limbs off so they wouldn't fall on your head. Didn't even water it. Just went all natural. Where you wanted to walk you had paths. Really nice being there. Years later i visited and she had moved. I asked her why, and the guy she married had insisted on a more upscale house in a typical neighborhood. She never told him, but she always regretted that.
link to original post
Love or hate HOAs is one of the great dividing lines of modern America. There are people who like everything just so and thus cede their own freedom to have it that way. They tend to be Karens who are, well, Karens. I keep waiting for some smart pol to put up a "Homeowner's Bill of Rights" to rein in what has become a money-making venture and often borders on mafia-style running of the place. Fortunately for me HOAs have not taken near the hold in my part of the USA.
link to original post
This is just such a stupid post. Really. IF it was somehow hidden that there was a HOA with its rules and regulations BEFORE you bought your house I’d agree with you 100%. I may (at some point) buy a house in The Villages. I think they may have more rules/regulations than anywhere! And you know what, having spent 3 separate months there, those R and R’s make the place great. You can’t find a house whose yard is not well maintained. The common areas are immaculate. Drive a mile out of The Villages and it doesn’t look or feel as nice.
The common charges are less than $200 a month. Public pools everywhere. Golf INCLUDED. Pickleball/Bocce/Tennis/Basketball/ Dog parks/Squares with free entertainment.
If it makes you feel good to call me a Karen, go for it.
No one is making you buy a house in an area with an HOA. Remind me what you are getting for your non HOA house. Oh yeah, ‘freedom’.
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Your post perfectly made the point my "stupid" post does. Your comments show you prefer everything just so to the freedom to do with your house what you want.
You have not seen what I have seen in the hassles that they can cause when you want a mortgage. Another problem is that in many places it is de facto impossible to buy new construction without an HOA due to state laws. As to the "hidden rules" well they can just add rules in most cases. Again, if you like lots of rules, have at it. To me the whole HOA culture feels like East Germany. Gotta give up your rights for "the common good" which in an HOA means things like all the homes have to have the same blandness. "Property value" is the reason they give. I do guess it is easier to paint when someone tells you what color you can use. I have even heard of HOAs where you have to buy the "approved" paint from the HOA!
The Karen life is not for me.
Quote: AZDuffman
Your post perfectly made the point my "stupid" post does. Your comments show you prefer everything just so to the freedom to do with your house what you want.
You have not seen what I have seen in the hassles that they can cause when you want a mortgage. Another problem is that in many places it is de facto impossible to buy new construction without an HOA due to state laws. As to the "hidden rules" well they can just add rules in most cases. Again, if you like lots of rules, have at it. To me the whole HOA culture feels like East Germany. Gotta give up your rights for "the common good" which in an HOA means things like all the homes have to have the same blandness. "Property value" is the reason they give. I do guess it is easier to paint when someone tells you what color you can use. I have even heard of HOAs where you have to buy the "approved" paint from the HOA!
The Karen life is not for me.
My last house was in an HOA but my current one is not. I never really had a problem with the HOA but I also read the guidelines before purchasing. For the $11 a month I paid I was happy because they took care of the common areas and the park.. I had a friend paying $440 a month for his HOA and I would not have done that.
