Discussion about the Suspension List

Quote: AxelWolf

Its news to me, I had absolutely no clue, can you link me to the discussion. can you answer some of my questions. How dose this work. whats the reason? Its like having a rat/spy in your mist. If I sent a PM to one of the secret administrators could they then discuss this with a different administrator.

You can start on page 99 or 100 of this very thread. I can't seem to find all the posts so I must not be looking in the right place. I know nobody would delete them.

Quote: AxelWolf

Its news to me, I had absolutely no clue, can you link me to the discussion. can you answer some of my questions. How dose this work. whats the reason? Its like having a rat/spy in your mist. If I sent a PM to one of the secret administrators could they then discuss this with a different administrator.

Could not, I'd ban the secret Admin for violating PM Confidentiality.

Quote: AxelWolf

Its news to me, I had absolutely no clue, can you link me to the discussion. can you answer some of my questions. How dose this work. whats the reason? Its like having a rat/spy in your mist. If I sent a PM to one of the secret administrators could they then discuss this with a different administrator.

Didn't Mission used to be a secret admin?

I'm unclear as to the purpose as well. Is it because some people aren't comfortable with others knowing that they are admins? Because they don't want to be treated differently?

Or can they perform some job that wouldn't be able to be effectively performed if they were not secret?

I would assume that admins (secret or otherwise) are supposed to follow the same rules wrt privacy of PMs, same as everyone else. In fact, I'd assume that they are MORE likely to follow the rules than anyone else...

I almost forgot that they used to call themselves secret moderators. Put those words into the search here to find a lot more on the subject.

Quote: Beethoven9th

Regular members can do this already.

I was under the impression PMs were private and could not be discussed with out the permission of both parties.

Even then there would be a difference between someone doing this because they wanted to, and someone that did it because it was their job. It seems a secret administrator would be looking for opportunity's to do it.

Quote: AxelWolf

I was under the impression PMs were private and could not be discussed with out the permission of both parties.

True, I was just pointing out that regular members can already share their PM's with the mods if, for example, there's a rule violation that needs to be addressed.

Quote: odiousgambit

Spy Vs Spy ! Loved that growing up

Axel,
Wiz may correct me, but I think the secret admins came about when it was just Wiz and JB as the site 'police'. I don't believe Wiz and JB were heavily involved in many of the threads, and in some of the threads things were getting out of hand (see JerryLogan and MKL4321). The Wiz was/is all about unfettered speech, but many of us were interested in keeping this forum free from the name calling and general idiotic, teenage behavior that pollutes so many other forums. I believe the Wiz found value in this request, and the decorum rules were created. But Wiz did not have the time to visit/watchdog every thread, so some secret admins were created. Since they were secret, no one knew if they were watching your thread or not, thus it made sense to behave, no matter what thread you were in.

Shortly after this, Mission came on board, and I get the impression he reads A LOT, perhaps all, of the threads, so the need for secret admins is really diminished. I suppose if a member was to post some bad insults, but then edit/erase them before anyone could quote them, a secret admin that had seen the original posts could notify Wiz or Mission, and they would presumably carry more weight than if a regular member tried to report it.

It really shouldn't matter if we have 1 admin or 20 admins. We have already burned more thread space than this whole topic is really worth.

secret admins are stupid. Its not like the idiots who post insults are sitting there thinking. Hmmm I wonder if an admin is sitting there and will see what I write. They are either going to see it or not. If there is a secret admin then there is no reason for them not to have a green name. If we were in a bar meeting and discussing and you were trying to sneakily get people banned then it would be worthy but not on a forum. Just my opinion.

That's not the reason for it, I'm not going to discuss what the reason for it is and probably am not aware of all the reasons myself, but that's not it.

Quote: AxelWolf

I must have missed something. Whats with all this secret administrator stuff? Is this true, this forum has a secret administrator? Whats the purpose of that? What dose a secret administrator do? Can they suspend people and other things, or do they just tell some other administrator? I don't get it.

I find this a bit troubling, if its true. I might send a PM to this secret administrator, something that I may not be comfortable sending to a administrator for one reason or the other.

varmenti is the secret admin sir.

Quote: CrapsGenious

varmenti is the secret admin sir.

How do you know about varmenti? He was nuked 2 months before you got here. Hmm...

Quote: GWAE

secret admins are stupid. .

No they're not, most forums have them. I was one
on a gambling forum for 2 years. They fill in the
gaps when the regular admin can't be there. Its
a smooth way to run things. I don't care if there
are secret admins here, what possible difference
can it make.

I'm sort of surprised at all this backlash about "secret spies". We all know, by admittance, that Mission reads nearly every word posted here. That means every post is policed. We all know that any member, from the first day guys to the guy that just signed in today, can PM a green name and bring attention to an issue. Not only can it happen, but we know it does happen. We know that even green name admins are held to the same rules as everyone else, including those dealing with PMs. We also know that as long as you follow the rules, which deals pretty much only with decorum and being a gentlemen (not a difficult task), you can pretty much say anything you want and hold any view imaginable.

So what could you possibly be up to that makes the idea of a secret admin so upsetting?

Won't two flags remove a post anyhow?

Quote: Face

I'm sort of surprised at all this backlash about "secret spies". We all know, by admittance, that Mission reads nearly every word posted here. That means every post is policed. We all know that any member, from the first day guys to the guy that just signed in today, can PM a green name and bring attention to an issue. Not only can it happen, but we know it does happen. We know that even green name admins are held to the same rules as everyone else, including those dealing with PMs. We also know that as long as you follow the rules, which deals pretty much only with decorum and being a gentlemen (not a difficult task), you can pretty much say anything you want and hold any view imaginable.

So what could you possibly be up to that makes the idea of a secret admin so upsetting?

Dude! First, it's gentleperson. Babs is going to have a hard time being a gentleman;-) Second, on the secret admin thing, this is the internet and that's a lot like 3rd grade. Someone else got picked for something and I didn't? Why? I want it! Why can't I be special too?? Must be time to pitch a fit!

Quote: Mosca

Won't two flags remove a post anyhow?

Last I knew, it was a points system favoring the old timers. Two long time members could flag and it'd disappear, while it took several new posters to do the same.

Quote: rdw4potus

Second, on the secret admin thing, this is the internet and that's a lot like 3rd grade. Someone else got picked for something and I didn't? Why? I want it! Why can't I be special too?? Must be time to pitch a fit!

Indeed it must, yet I see you haven't pitched at all. Hmmm...

This 30 second video explains why a secret administrator is necessary !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0cF2piwjYQ

TournamentKing is banned for eternity for the following post:

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/16622-rush-limbaugh-sage-or-fat-windbag-discuss/#post318773

Keep it PG, Profanity, Bullying (Some Forum Members are homosexual)

Banned for life for that? I'm no "moderator" but that seems like a little harsh. Especially when the title of the thread itself, made by the wizard, could be construed as more offensive than TK's post. Me, I am not offended by either.

Quote: sodawater

Banned for life for that? I'm no "moderator" but that seems like a little harsh. Especially when the title of the thread itself, made by the wizard, could be construed as more offensive than TK's post. Me, I am not offended by either.

Maybe it's the "last straw" rule. It was only a straw, but it's the one that finally broke the camel's back. (Or Moderator's patience.)

The nuke rule allows people to be "disappeared" with no particular forum rule broken, see above.

Quote: sodawater

Banned for life for that? I'm no "moderator" but that seems like a little harsh. Especially when the title of the thread itself, made by the wizard, could be construed as more offensive than TK's post. Me, I am not offended by either.

I mean, it was going to happen eventually...

I was kind of curious to see if he ever got to understand what an advantage play actually was, and why positive expectation was important. Now we will never know.

Here we go again : It's Wizard's house... CASE CLOSED

As long as TK could type, he would be quite a favorite for suspension and banning anyways. Better sooner rather than later and I relish the ruling. He's just so easy to not like and is just so disrespectful and ignorant.

Also, I would wager there are far more fat forum members than homosexual forum members.

Well said nickle

Quote: onenickelmiracle

As long as TK could type, he would be quite a favorite for suspension and banning anyways. Better sooner rather than later and I relish the ruling. He's just so easy to not like and is just so disrespectful and ignorant.

But now who is Axel going to hire for his VP team?

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

But now who is Axel going to hire for his VP team?

I've never been fired...and that was the purpose of hiring TK...he could hire me to fire me, he gets his fun and I get to be fired without it going on a resume.

Quote: sodawater

Banned for life for that? I'm no "moderator" but that seems like a little harsh. Especially when the title of the thread itself, made by the wizard, could be construed as more offensive than TK's post. Me, I am not offended by either.

Posting history, he just came off a ban. What would I do? Ban him for thirty days just to Nuke him three days after that, anyway?

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I was kind of curious to see if he ever got to understand what an advantage play actually was, and why positive expectation was important. Now we will never know.

LOL

TK was great entertainment. I got a kick out of the fact that he liked to tout himself as an AP, yet he couldn't even understand the basics regarding how you make money at VP.

Quote: Mission146

Posting history, he just came off a ban. What would I do? Ban him for thirty days just to Nuke him three days after that, anyway?

It was the right call, he was toxic in every thread he was in. Not to mention his inferiority complex. "My car is faster than yours! Therefore I am an AP."

Quote: Transcend

It was the right call, he was toxic in every thread he was in. Not to mention his inferiority complex. "My car is faster than yours! Therefore I am an AP."

I never really got that. Was the implication that he won the money to pay for the car by gambling?

I was also curious to see what he meant by APing slots. I'm thinking that he just played a bunch, got lucky and hit some jackpots, then got comped to a slot tourney, won some money there, and figured he was an AP

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I never really got that. Was the implication that he won the money to pay for the car by gambling?

I was also curious to see what he meant by APing slots. I'm thinking that he just played a bunch, got lucky and hit some jackpots, then got comped to a slot tourney, won some money there, and figured he was an AP

I think he was trying to say he got the car from "APing" without flat out saying it or more or less he was trying to imply it so people would think he knew what he was doing.

And nothing of value was lost.

Quote: AcesAndEights

And nothing of value was lost.

What about comedic value?

Quote: Transcend

What about comedic value?

Ain't nobody got time for that! Seriously, it was amusing the first time Axel and Mickey tried to explain the math behind Slots/VP AP to him and he completely whiffed. Then it just got tedious. Then he started acting like an a**hole. So personally, I think the lifetime ban was appropriate.

TK is the only user I currently have blocked; his posts add almost nothing to any thread.

Quote: AcesAndEights

Ain't nobody got time for that! Seriously, it was amusing the first time Axel and Mickey tried to explain the math behind Slots/VP AP to him and he completely whiffed. Then it just got tedious. Then he started acting like an a**hole. So personally, I think the lifetime ban was appropriate.

TK is the only user I currently have blocked; his posts add almost nothing to any thread.

What I said was purely in jest, the first thread I had ever posted here, he was beyond rude.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I never really got that. Was the implication that he won the money to pay for the car by gambling?

I was also curious to see what he meant by APing slots. I'm thinking that he just played a bunch, got lucky and hit some jackpots, then got comped to a slot tourney, won some money there, and figured he was an AP

He could have meant anything.

It was a long time ago, but I knew a guy who claimed to be an AP (not the term he used) at Slots, and then one day, said he'd show me, "The Secret." It turns out that, "The Secret," was he would watch someone play $0.25/denom single-line Max Three Credits flat tops, anyway, he would just stand by the wall and watch people play these machines and anytime someone lost more than $50 on a machine, he'd go after it with $21.00. (because the bet is $0.75)

The only time he would walk around was to look at the credits on the machine in order to verify how much someone put into the machine.

The way the rest of the play worked is that he would quit on any profit on that machine, even if the profit was only $0.75, then that's it for that machine. If he lost the $21.00, he was done with it.

He had a full-time job, as well, and was otherwise a pretty reasonable human being.

Anyway, he did that about thirty hours a week for three years, and he said he had an overall profit after two years combined (won in the first year, took a loss in the second) and then quit in the third year when he was back below even.

I believe he had a first year profit that may have carried him through the second year. I tried to convince him what he was doing was not viable in the long-term. He said he had a few top jackpots, I actually witnessed him hit a 5,000 Credit jackpot, on one occasion.

My reasoning is three-fold:

1.) The occasions, just during the times that he was there, in which someone would put $50 into the same machine and lose it all were probably few enough that he may not have had a ton of plays, assuming twenty-thirty hours per week. Additionally, to show, "Any profit," I can't even begin to guess what percentage of the time he would just sit down and lose $21, but it certainly didn't happen every time.

2.) The second reason I tend to believe him is because, last time I talked to him, he acknowledged that the system was garbage and that he, "Got lucky," the first year and was still lucky to be ahead after the second year. He said he knew his results because he would take a set amount into the casino ($210) and record whatever he went home with, and stopped doing it once he got below even. If he's willing to admit to the system being garbage and ultimately being in the negative after three years, I really have no reason to believe he wasn't ahead after two.

3.) He never claimed to have made a ton of money. I asked him what his high point was, in terms of being ahead, and he said he didn't want to discuss stuff of that nature. I'm guessing he was probably not ever more than 2-3K in the good.

Risking $21 to win 75 cents is going to work most of the time.

I don't know if I'd be ready to say over half the time. It really comes down to probability distribution more than anything, which we don't know, of course. We know that a goal of being ahead one unit in Craps on Pass/Don't is going to work well over half the time, especially if you have a session bankroll of 28 units.

I just don't know the percentage for slots/VP. Any game with known probabilities could be simulated, so I might try it with that Beating Bonuses simulator for a VP game tomorrow just to see.

I think a permanent ban was a bit harsh. A stern warning and suspension is what I would have done, and I would have more bias towards him then most. Oh well.

Only one problem..... now he will reincarnate, It would probably be better to know exactly who and where he is.

TK will always be remembered for writing this, one of the funniest things every published on the forum:

Quote:

But think about this: it's been said that at the end of life, when people are asked about their greatest regrets, #1 on the list was that they couldn't go through life driving a better, more luxurious car. I don't or won't have that regret.

Quote: teddys

TK will always be remembered for writing this, one of the funniest things every published on the forum:

Ah, happy memories.

Quote: teddys

TK will always be remembered for writing this, one of the funniest things every published on the forum:

He never did defend that asinine claim.

Quote: teddys

TK will always be remembered for writing this, one of the funniest things every published on the forum:

You guys are johnny come lately with TK . I knew from the glance at his name he was full of it, and was going to be a whipping boy with crackpot ideas. I had him all to myself for a while.

I still want to see his dads car

Quote: AxelWolf

You guys are johnny come lately with TK . I knew from the glance at his name he was full of it, and was going to be a whipping boy with crackpot ideas. I had him all to myself for a while.

I still want to see his dads car

Sorry, Axel, but I'll claim at least a tie with you on that assessment. lol...

I guess this is the thread to talk about banned members. That mkl654321 was quite a guy. His last visit here was on July 15, 2013. How about JerryLogan? He would get banned and return anytime he chose. Who could forget mrjjj? Ken, as well as Jerry and mkl were colorful guys. Who was your favorite?

Quote: beachbumbabs

Sorry, Axel, but I'll claim at least a tie with you on that assessment. lol...

My assessment sure, your still Babs'y come lately on your assessment. Just his name to me had -ev written all over it. Now who will be the first to find his new alias?

Quote: AxelWolf

You guys are johnny come lately with TK . I knew from the glance at his name he was full of it, and was going to be a whipping boy with crackpot ideas. I had him all to myself for a while.

I still want to see his dads car

Axel called it right off, other's were thinking it, but he called it.

I still wonder if that isn't an alias for some other colorful character, perhaps a banned one? Maybe even a bac player?

edit: Mickey was close behind I do believe.