Discussion about the Suspension List
Quote: tringlomaneSaw me vulturing through ultimate x at Ameristar, and made the comment that I was "going to blow them out of the water". And he had his wallet in his hand in such a way where I could see part of a Kansas ID. At that point it was pretty trivial for me to ask if he posted on WoV.
I suppose that stands as proof that he is in the casinos, and watching others play, and even commenting on their play to them. Was he trying to enlist you in his team?
I did think that his presence added to the Forum, as he mentioned, uh, more than once ;-)
And some of his parting remarks had some veracity to them. It's a shame that some of the best, some of the brightest, some of the most colorful, cannot participate here simply because 'we all' have to color inside the drawn lines. But it is what it is, and it's still very good. Just my $0.02, you can bill me...
Quote: AlanMendelsonI can handle the legalities here. It's Journalism 101.
He made the posts on his own without any contract. He can't withdraw them. Simply you can't unring a bell.
I can't speak about words in a forum but having no contract in the film world especially where your input is displayed openly to the public as coming from you, e.g. acting or song or soundtrack, voice, etc, can result in very difficult issues.
Say for example, you have an actor with no contract in your film. If after filming, the actor says he no longer wants to have his image seen in your film and you have no contract with him, then you are squat out of luck.
The logical argument would be that by showing up to film and reading the script and portraying the character he de facto is giving his express permission to be in the film, but that is not the way it works. He could literally make your film unscreenable. People do have permission to control their images if you move forward without a contract.
Now how does that pertain to a forum and written words. I don't know!
This would point to words of authorship as having some protection.
BTW - the most accidentally copyright infringed song is Happy Birthday. I don't know if it's public yet but as late as the nineties people who sung this song in movies had to pay the author. It was still copywritten and a lot of people (especially student or first time film-makers) didn't realize that.
Quote: darkozIn the world of writing, (novels, short stories) you cannot even quote a line from a song without written permission.
This would point to words of authorship as having some protection.
BTW - the most accidentally copyright infringed song is Happy Birthday. I don't know if it's public yet but as late as the nineties people who sung this song in movies had to pay the author. It was still copywritten and a lot of people (especially student or first time film-makers) didn't realize that.
As of about a month ago, that copyright was struck down. Now the lyrics and melody are public domain. Possibly, one specific piano arrangement may or may not still be copyrighted.
Quote: darkozIn the world of writing, (novels, short stories) you cannot even quote a line from a song without written permission.
This would point to words of authorship as having some protection.
BTW - the most accidentally copyright infringed song is Happy Birthday. I don't know if it's public yet but as late as the nineties people who sung this song in movies had to pay the author. It was still copywritten and a lot of people (especially student or first time film-makers) didn't realize that.
Snopes
ZCore13
Quote: tringlomaneWell this was an interesting turn of events.
And you're right Ibeatyouraces, DI is never taken kindly here.
I actually met exoter on Thursday in St. Louis by complete chance. We talked quite a bit and he seemed pretty knowledgeable on machine play, but not like I could prove how successful or not successful he is. He seemed pretty nice overall, and quite the smooth talker. I tried to warn him that the forum doesn't let things slide with profanity and more, he did seem a little irked by the suspension. But he didn't curse that much in front of me, fwiw.
One the thing that got me was, he made it sound like he got a solid $300 a day doing machine ap and made little comment about bad swings at times. Maybe he just didn't think to talk about those as much. It just sounded like his variance was less than it should really be. But of course he was managing his group and all those winnings were pooled and he got a cut of them too, so that smooths things out I guess.
The forum unfortunately has had quite a few people making bold claims quickly and they haven't panned out. It's like you can't trust a new member anymore. There are a few gamblers out there who make consistent money, and maybe he is one of them, but hard for me to be for sure.
I didn't really have any doubts about his machine play success. I'm sure there are a lot of them I don't know about mainly because they aren't available around here, and when we travel, it's strictly about table games with a little UX thrown in. I wish he would've toned down the language a little when he came back, not that it bothered me, so that the inevitable (which happened) wouldn't happen.
Quote: JoemanWow, does that mean we no longer have to endure those lame/crappy Birthday songs they make the waitstaff sing at chain restaurants? I always assumed corporate wouldn't allow them to sing "Happy Birthday" because of copyright issues.
Nope! those crappy songs are marketing! And, hey, you remember them, so they work:-)
Quote: 1BBI enjoyed Exoter's posts. They made me laugh and kept me entertained. I thought he was good for the forum.
Sure, when the various characters are going round and round with other people on the forum you enjoy it at other's expense.
However, it appears when you become the subject of a little bit of provocation, most recently with EB's comment and Midwest, you don't seem to enjoy it so much. Talking about being baited and trolled, etc.,
I'm surprised if anyone takes you seriously.
Crap! Well, I can't say that I actually remember any words or tunes of those songs. I do remember the "I would rather be anywhere in the world doing anything but this" looks on the servers' faces while they "sing" the songs!Quote: rdw4potusNope! those crappy songs are marketing! And, hey, you remember them, so they work:-)
One, electronic games should not be allowed at the event. It's a table games show, contest and conference. Everything is table games related. If it doesn't have a live dealer, it's not a table game. Shuffle Master and Galaxy Gaming both have electronic game versions of their games. They've never brought them. I don't like the convention moving away from table games
Two, the President of Nanotech Gaming is no friend of table games. He has stated in the past he has been banned by a couple of casinos for his actions surrounding table games, harassed staff about their rules and equipment, even bringing in his own stick to give to the craps crew because he thought theirs was not good enough. I believe he's even offered to fight people and purposely tried to get them to leave when he's been playing craps.
So, although I did mention that he called my HR department (which was laughable and accomplished nothing), as a sponsor of the event and knowing I would have done the same thing if it was Shuffle Master, Galaxy, AGS or anyone else bringing in an electronic game, I don't consider this the same type of intrusion. And I have never and would never post anyones personal information on this or any other public forum.
ZCore13
Quote: 1BBYou're going to cut his ban short? What about the 7 day cure for all that ails him?
Does every post have to be mathematically enlightening? Could you at least try to conceal your disdain for the guy? Perhaps instead you could take him under your wing and become his mentor or life coach or whatever the current fad is. You did say you were concerned for him.
I'm not cutting his ban short, I meant I'll remember to unban him when his week is up.
Sure, I'll be his life coach. My first and last piece of advice is he should seek out a much better life coach.
Quote: Zcore13Two, the President of Nanotech Gaming is no friend of table games. He has stated in the past he has been banned by a couple of casinos for his actions surrounding table games, harassed staff about their rules and equipment, even bringing in his own stick to give to the craps crew because he thought theirs was not good enough. I believe he's even offered to fight people and purposely tried to get them to leave when he's been playing craps.
That's not how I see it: he loves at least one table game: craps.
Good grief, he has a craps table on the main floor of his house.
He's provocative, in that he seems to provoke people by exercising his penchant to test the limits, particularly the limits of dealers he thinks aren't up to snuff.
Oh, and he comes across as being somewhat arrogant.
And he pissed you off: I get it, I'd be pissed too if he took it into the Real World.
But is it really worthwhile to engage in an escalating feud?
Quote: rxwineSure, when the various characters are going round and round with other people on the forum you enjoy it at other's expense.
However, it appears when you become the subject of a little bit of provocation, most recently with EB's comment and Midwest, you don't seem to enjoy it so much. Talking about being baited and trolled, etc.,
I'm surprised if anyone takes you seriously.
Surprise!
Quote: Zcore13In a full disclosure statement, I am here to report that I found out NanoTech Gaming was going to be displaying one or both of their games,at the upcoming Cutting Edge Table Games Show. I am a long time sponsor of the show, so I voiced my displeasure to a representative on two fronts.
ZCore13
Just guessing here, but Ahigh is not going
to like this. He might even call your company
and try and get you in trouble. Oh, wait, he
already attempted that.
Never mind..
Quote: TwoFeathersATLSurprise!
Careful there. You said that you thought that Exoter's presence added to the forum. Did you clear that with rxwine first? Reckless statements like that could be cause for.......... whining. :-) Don't you hate it when grown men whine? It really adds to the forum doesn't it?
Quote: 1BBCareful there. You said that you thought that Exoter's presence added to the forum. Did you clear that with rxwine first? Reckless statements like that could be cause for.......... whining. :-) Don't you hate it when grown men whine? It really adds to the forum doesn't it?
Looks like being nasty comes more naturally to you than you usually pretend not to be.
Is it your Freudian slip up, hiding behind the veneer of do-gooder.
Fortunately, for me, I already know my faults.
Quote: rxwineLooks like being nasty comes more naturally to you than you usually pretend not to be.
Is it your Freudian slip up, hiding behind the veneer of do-gooder.
Fortunately, for me, I already know my faults.
Oh, is it my turn already? Thank you for adding to the forum. Please continue your name calling and do check your blood pressure. Stat. Hurry back, insult me again and tell me that your blood pressure in fine. It's for the good of the forum. Your turn. Five, four, three...
You may think that is tit-for-tat, but I don't think that is fair.Quote: Zcore13In a full disclosure statement, I am here to report that I found out NanoTech Gaming was going to be displaying one or both of their games,at the upcoming Cutting Edge Table Games Show. I am a long time sponsor of the show, so I voiced my displeasure to a representative on two fronts.
One, electronic games should not be allowed at the event. It's a table games show, contest and conference. Everything is table games related. If it doesn't have a live dealer, it's not a table game. Shuffle Master and Galaxy Gaming both have electronic game versions of their games. They've never brought them. I don't like the convention moving away from table games
Two, the President of Nanotech Gaming is no friend of table games. He has stated in the past he has been banned by a couple of casinos for his actions surrounding table games, harassed staff about their rules and equipment, even bringing in his own stick to give to the craps crew because he thought theirs was not good enough. I believe he's even offered to fight people and purposely tried to get them to leave when he's been playing craps.
So, although I did mention that he called my HR department (which was laughable and accomplished nothing), as a sponsor of the event and knowing I would have done the same thing if it was Shuffle Master, Galaxy, AGS or anyone else bringing in an electronic game, I don't consider this the same type of intrusion. And I have never and would never post anyones personal information on this or any other public forum.
ZCore13
I really wish you guys would make peace. I don't see any way how this feud is productive. (Are any feuds productive?) Kind of weird and more than unsettling how this has now spilled into "real life," as it were.
Quote: AlanMendelsonIndeed I control the rights to my name and image until I voluntarily post on this forum and use my Facebook photo as my avatar. Now the Wiz can say Alan Mendelson posts on my site.
Yes, but you have the right to ask him to refrain and remove your image and content. Is everything written here under an unwritten contract for perpetuity? Without a TOS that delineates that, someone could move forward and ask for a court order for their stuff to be taken down. It might be expensive and more time and money than its worth but without TOS, now you have a situation where the courts may need to decide.
Let's say a scenario where someone major working with this forum does something horribly criminal. (I know it sounds difficult to believe but if I told you Jared from Subway was going to be caught as a child pornographer two years ago that would have been equally difficult to believe) and lets say you don't want to be associated with this website any longer, your image and your writing.
You are saying you would have no recourse because of an implicit agreement to have your material and image on here forever?
Quote: kewljLet's not encourage anyone to visit that sight, unless it is for purely entertainment value. As far as any AP value, it really is nothing but a voodoo site, with nearly all credible AP's that were participating there, having vacated on their own or by Norm's hand.
Ha ha. Tell us how you really feel. :-) I refrained from naming the site out of deference for the owners of this site.
How could you possibly beat him and his team to a UX? He told one member not to bother with any place him and "HIS CREW" were at because they had no chance.Quote: tringlomaneSaw me vulturing through ultimate x at Ameristar, and made the comment that I was "going to blow them out of the water". And he had his wallet in his hand in such a way where I could see part of a Kansas ID. At that point it was pretty trivial for me to ask if he posted on WoV.
If I were paid to post in a forum and the contract had a time limit for the posts to appear the forum owner would have to honor the contract and remove the posts when the time limit is reached.
If I posted on Jared 's forum voluntarily without a contract giving me control I'd be stuck.
You should see the contracts I had to sign with CBS and Disney when I worked for them which specifically made clear I was giving away all rights to my work in exchange for my salary. There were phrases such as "all media now known or may be developed in the future."
Take that, election thread! The good folks here know what the important issues of the day really are. Not every forum can boast of a suspension list of this magnitude.
A special thank you to the circle the wagons crowd aka the cheer leading squad. Without them this magnificent feat would not have been possible. Back to work, everyone. Let's not rest on our laurels.
Can this forum put a 200 word limit on posts? Some of these are getting too long for this simple mind to read.
Quote: AlanMendelsonDarkoz: once I post something voluntarily on a public forum I lose all control of that content. The owner of the forum can decide on his own if he wants to keep it on the forum or remove it. I can ask that the forum removes it but the forum is under no obligation to remove it.
If I were paid to post in a forum and the contract had a time limit for the posts to appear the forum owner would have to honor the contract and remove the posts when the time limit is reached.
If I posted on Jared 's forum voluntarily without a contract giving me control I'd be stuck.
You should see the contracts I had to sign with CBS and Disney when I worked for them which specifically made clear I was giving away all rights to my work in exchange for my salary. There were phrases such as "all media now known or may be developed in the future."
I am fully aware of those clauses. I worked in the motion picture business.
It is precisely because CBS and Disney didn't want you having any legal right to ask for your images to be taken down that the clause is in the contract. Your working with them did not give them the rights you say this forum has simply by dint of voluntary appearance. If you can insist your image not be used when you are being paid (which is the reason the contract specifically says you cannot) why would material you are not being paid for afford you less protection.
My whole point is this site should have a TOS for their own protection.
In a court case, both plaintiff and defendant sides believe they are correct and will use case law to back themselves up. A TOS will make situations like that more defensible. You don't want to take the chance that in a court of law you automatically will win.
Even a prosecutor with video evidence of a crime knows it's never slam-dunk and to protect himself with as much legal memorandum as possible.
Something like that is always beneficial.
But even without it once you've posted something online voluntarily you've pretty much thrown away your rights.
Now there are exceptions. For example the Wiz could not use my posts as an endorsement should he run for president or open a brothel. .
Quote: AlanMendelsonYou are correct that a site should have a TOS that says something like "we control and have all rights to all content posted here unless those rights conflict with current law or another's copyright. "
Something like that is always beneficial.
But even without it once you've posted something online voluntarily you've pretty much thrown away your rights.
Now there are exceptions. For example the Wiz could not use my posts as an endorsement should he run for president or open a brothel. .
I don't believe it will come to a situation where someone wants their content removed. However we live in a litigious society. This whole discussion came about because of the threat to do such by Exoter. With a TOS, his veiled threats would have had no grounding. Babs, could simply have said, read the TOS like she said to him read the forum rules.
It simplifies a lot of things.
ZCore13
Quote: 1BBThis forum attracts some of the nicest and smartest people which is why I enjoy it and why it is the only forum I participate in.
Quote: Zcore13I doubt anyone would spend the money to pursue removing or editing content here legally, but all the site has to do is post TOS and then haver every registered user agree to the terms with an automatic message the next time they visit. The agreement says all content is the property of the site and if you do not agree, choose no and your account and previous posts will be removed. One time offer. All new members fall under the new TOS and have no rights to their posts from the get go.
ZCore13
Usually a wise voice, ZCore has nailed the subject again. I am eager to see if the current owners take that advice. My first guess is no. Anyone want to start the odds and handle the bets?
Quote: RS
I'm not sure why you posted that. I do spend a lot of time answering my detractors. One little post turns into a half dozen more thanks to my fan club. I'm glad you pointed it out.
As long as you're on this thread can we get your comments on the recent suspensions?
I'm also not sure why you quoted those particular words of mine but I include you in my comments.
No offense but, I don't think either one of you would be a big drawing card for a brothel?Quote: AlanMendelsonFor example the Wiz could not use my posts as an endorsement should he run for president or open a brothel. .
edit; On second thought, what would you guys name it?
Quote: petroglyphNo offense but, I don't think either one of you would be a big drawing card for a brothel?
Wizard could give the odds of getting "lucky" with a valid credit card.
Quote: petroglyphNo offense but, I don't think either one of you would be a big drawing card for a brothel?
edit; On second thought, what would you guys name it?
My brothel would be:
Alan Mendelson's Best Buys Brothel, Ranch and Barbecue
All they need is a catchy name? The product sells itself.Quote: rxwineWizard could give the odds of getting "lucky" with a valid credit card.
Quote: AlanMendelsonMy brothel would be:
Alan Mendelson's Best Buys Brothel, Ranch and Barbecue
That's not catchy enough? Then how about adding "mother approved"?
Quote: rxwineLooks like being nasty comes more naturally to you than you usually pretend not to be.
Is it your Freudian slip up, hiding behind the veneer of do-gooder.
Fortunately, for me, I already know my faults.
RX, don't steal my thunder...I called him a "do-gooder" before it was hip to call him one. I would call him something else but I do like the option of posting sometimes.
As I have said many times, I deal with people like 1BB (as I see him) daily. I know there are options to avoid him, but I don't. I laugh, cry, bitch and generally get annoyed at his posts but I know there is a place for him.
And even if he thinks he is so much smarter then the other posters, the mods and even the owners, he will get banned one day. And he will complain about it on every other gambling forum out there that he doesn't post on.
Many wise people have told him to leave if he doesn't like it, but he is above that, because he follows the rules as he sees them.
But many of us do enjoy him. We all need that guy to point out how unfair the world is.
Now lets see if he trys to bait me into calling him what I really think.
Quote: BozRX, don't steal my thunder...I called him a "do-gooder" before it was hip to call him one. I would call him something else but I do like the option of posting sometimes.
As I have said many times, I deal with people like 1BB (as I see him) daily. I know there are options to avoid him, but I don't. I laugh, cry, bitch and generally get annoyed at his posts but I know there is a place for him.
And even if he thinks he is so much smarter then the other posters, the mods and even the owners, he will get banned one day. And he will complain about it on every other gambling forum out there that he doesn't post on.
Many wise people have told him to leave if he doesn't like it, but he is above that, because he follows the rules as he sees them.
But many of us do enjoy him. We all need that guy to point out how unfair the world is.
Now lets see if he trys to bait me into calling him what I really think.
Hi, Boz. It's good to see you posting again. I hope all is well with you.
As sad as it might seem, it's likely better to get done on by a brothel than a casino.Quote: AlanMendelsonThen how about adding "mother approved"?
Quote: petroglyphNo offense but, I don't think either one of you would be a big drawing card for a brothel?
edit; On second thought, what would you guys name it?
Oh Brothel!
Wizardofhookers!
Odds-free it's disease-free
Hooker Line and Sinker
Mendelsons House of Hookers
Hookers and Hookah
Girls girls girls and a mathematician
The great thing is when you use this brothel there are no TOS.
Quote: darkoz
Girls girls girls and a mathematician
Don't know why but I seriously like that one. Rough day and that brought a smile. Thank you darkoz.
Quote: waasnodayDon't know why but I seriously like that one. Rough day and that brought a smile. Thank you darkoz.
Always a pleasure!
Quote: BozAnd even if he thinks he is so much smarter then the other posters, the mods and even the owners, he will get banned one day.
And join the "persons of value" list? Oh, I don't know. That list is already jam-packed full of value. That might overload it.
A few thoughts I could be totally off base. People should always find out for themselves before they judge anybody or whatever. Iv done things i'm not proud of myself. I have my own faults and weaknesses.Quote: IbeatyouracesI didn't really have any doubts about his machine play success. I'm sure there are a lot of them I don't know about mainly because they aren't available around here, and when we travel, it's strictly about table games with a little UX thrown in. I wish he would've toned down the language a little when he came back, not that it bothered me, so that the inevitable (which happened) wouldn't happen.
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I'm fairly certain he plays Must hit's, UX's and some other vulture plays, perhaps some blackjack and craps.
I have no doubt hes intelligent and has some knowledge about vulture type of plays. I'm sure he's probably come across some good promotions and perhaps a good machine opportunity we don't know about. He's probably better at machine vulture plays than most of us. I believe that's probably where it ends. If he told Trig he's making $300 a day I would guess its about $170.
I'm sure he's mathematically capable and savvy enough to do many things.
I hope his online persona is totally different how he acts in real life. Trig said he was nice but oftentimes people put on an act when you first meet them. I usually get a good sense of this kind of thing.
I don't care about your age, sex, race, sexual preferences, intelligence, looks, money. If you're someone I like and trust that's what matters to me.
He mentioned I as an AP should be PMing him and trying to gain information. Perhaps I should, but money isn't my biggest motivation. I would much rather deal with people I enjoy working with and like, even if I make less money. Have I dealt with people I don't necessarily like? Yes of course but not often and usually for the benefit of others I care about. I actually have a heart.
I don't like know-it -all's and overly egotistical people. I don't like people with an agenda who only care about money and want to use others.
I felt I didn't want to PM him soon after he arrived there were a few red flags even before I read KJ's post
Sure enough, he said something about meeting AP's and using them for information. I have a feeling this is exactly his MO here. it's probably how he's gained the information he does have, sounds kinda leechish to me. I not saying there's anything wrong with learning from others but not leeching off them.
I can imagine a scenario like this.
Start bragging and gain faults credibility, pretend your the best and smartest. Eventually someone will reach out. Use them for one sided information with no intentions of ever paying them back or compensation. Glam on to reputable people to use them as a vouching scenario.
I'll compare it to someone selling a betting system to someone.
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I hope I'm wrong
I hope he thinks about everything that happen here and he makes some changes.
He may not care and he's perfectly happy with himself in all aspects.
Quote: AxelWolfA few thoughts I could be totally off base. People should always find out for themselves before they judge anybody or whatever. Iv done things i'm not proud of myself. I have my own faults and weaknesses.
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I'm fairly certain he plays Must hit's, UX's and some other vulture plays, perhaps some blackjack and craps.
I have no doubt hes intelligent and has some knowledge about vulture type of plays. I'm sure he's probably come across some good promotions and perhaps a good machine opportunity we don't know about. He's probably better at machine vulture plays than most of us. I believe that's probably where it ends. If he told Trig he's making $300 a day I would guess its about $170.
I'm sure he's mathematically capable and savvy enough to do many things.
I hope his online persona is totally different how he acts in real life. Trig said he was nice but oftentimes people put on an act when you first meet them. I usually get a good sense of this kind of thing.
I don't care about your age, sex, race, sexual preferences, intelligence, looks, money. If you're someone I like and trust that's what matters to me.
He mentioned I as an AP should be PMing him and trying to gain information. Perhaps I should, but money isn't my biggest motivation. I would much rather deal with people I enjoy working with and like, even if I make less money. Have I dealt with people I don't necessarily like? Yes of course but not often and usually for the benefit of others I care about. I actually have a heart.
I don't like know-it -all's and overly egotistical people. I don't like people with an agenda who only care about money and want to use others.
I felt I didn't want to PM him soon after he arrived there were a few red flags even before I read KJ's post
Sure enough, he said something about meeting AP's and using them for information. I have a feeling this is exactly his MO here. it's probably how he's gained the information he does have, sounds kinda leechish to me. I not saying there's anything wrong with learning from others but not leeching off them.
I can imagine a scenario like this.
Start bragging and gain faults credibility, pretend your the best and smartest. Eventually someone will reach out. I'll compare it to someone selling a betting system.
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I hope I'm wrong
I hope he thinks about everything that happen here and he makes some changes.
He may not care and he's perfectly happy with himself in all aspects.
He PM'd me about sharing some of my AP plays but I don't trade or share info about that so I ignored the request. Yeah, it did give me the leeching impression.
I get asked by a lot of people about my AP play and how it works, how to do it so I just learned to ignore that stuff. Hell, even my own landlord asked me to show him, lol.
