Discussion about the Suspension List
Quote: WizardFor the benefit of me, as well as others, here my hall of shame of members who have been suspended since 12/25/10.
I would vote to extend your "hall of shame" table to include everyone that has been suspended. A few names come to mind.
Happy Holidays!
Quote: 7winnerI would vote to extend your "hall of shame" table to include everyone that has been suspended. A few names come to mind.
Happy Holidays!
Not a bad idea, to show who has been suspended, and what the nature and number of their infractions were.
Quote: CroupierNot a bad idea, to show who has been suspended, and what the nature and number of their infractions were.
Thirded.
Quote: sunrise089Thirded.
To the 4th power!
That is to say the Wizard's power!
Chuck for life for insulting the Wizard.
mkl for I think a week for personal insult.
JerryLogan 2 or 3 times. I just remember that last time was for a week for a combination of hijacking and personal insults.
Who I am forgetting?
You suspended blackjackgolden here on 12/25 at 2:31:58 pm, then he began re-posting here as bjgod just 31 minutes 5 seconds later with the mocking comment, "2 days and 12 hours to the minute man I slept a long time."
I expect it is going to get tedious to keep suspending people who just sign up with multiple user names and continue their poor behavior.
Quote: DocI expect it is going to get tedious to keep suspending people who just sign up with multiple user names and continue their poor behavior.
It is certainly well known how to defeat that, unless someone wants to keep going to different libraries or whatever.
Quote: DocWizard, I assume that you are aware that blackjackgolden and bjgod are the same person -- I believe he admitted that in one post which he then deleted. He has posted almost identical comments under both names.
You suspended blackjackgolden here on 12/25 at 2:31:58 pm, then he began re-posting here as bjgod just 31 minutes 5 seconds later with the mocking comment, "2 days and 12 hours to the minute man I slept a long time."
I expect it is going to get tedious to keep suspending people who just sign up with multiple user names and continue their poor behavior.
Thank you. I just banned bjgod as well. If he wishes to dispute this, PM me.
Quote: WizardThank you. I just banned bjgod as well. If he wishes to dispute this, PM me.
My question is, why are you doing all this work? If I had a successful forum like this, I'd rule it like a dictator. I'd ban people I didn't like without even telling them, I'd just cancel their accounts. If they don't like it, so what. This isn't a democracy, its a privately owned entity. Like I've said before, I've been on forums since '92 and its not worth the grief to give every jerk an even break. Life it too short, who cares if they don't like it. Go someplace else and be a jerk, you're GONE from here.. I've seen decent forums ruined by the trolls and the owner pulling his hair out. Always remember, its fun to be the King, you can make people disappear. Poof!
Quote: DocI expect it is going to get tedious to keep suspending people who just sign up with multiple user names and continue their poor behavior.
I was Admin on a an SF board some years back. The commercial forum software had a feature that allowed you to suspend and/or ban users by handle and by I.P. address. That took care of most sock puppets.
I also had to approve new users before they were allowed to post. I caught some that way, too. But it slows down posting and, sometimes, discourages new posters when you just take too long to grant them access.
Quote: EvenBobMy question is, why are you doing all this work? If I had a successful forum like this, I'd rule it like a dictator. I'd ban people I didn't like without even telling them, I'd just cancel their accounts. If they don't like it, so what. This isn't a democracy, its a privately owned entity. Like I've said before, I've been on forums since '92 and its not worth the grief to give every jerk an even break. Life it too short, who cares if they don't like it. Go someplace else and be a jerk, you're GONE from here.. I've seen decent forums ruined by the trolls and the owner pulling his hair out. Always remember, its fun to be the King, you can make people disappear. Poof!
You're one of many to say that. Maybe you're a faster learner than me, but day by day I'm getting closer to your position. I've often wondered if I were a real king, how would I rule? I'd like to think I would be a nice king, who loved his minions, and was quick to give the benefit of the doubt when discipline was in order. Imagine Mr. Rogers as king.
However, maybe such a king would lose respect and control. Maybe what we need here is a Saddam Hussein kind of toughness. An idea worth thinking about for 2011.
Quote: WizardYou're one of many to say that. Maybe you're a faster learner than me, but day by day I'm getting closer to your position.
I'm a slow learner, in fact. I've just been on lots of forums, thats all. What you'll find is it will get worse, not better. And you'll question why you started the damn thing at all. An example to look at is the forum John Patrick runs. He suffers no fools, ever. He deletes accounts right and left and just keeps the people he likes and who get along with each other. Is he disliked for this? You bet, but those who dislike him are bottom feeding, hate filled trolls, who cares what they think. I don't agree with JP on a lot of things, but he runs a tight ship of a forum. IMO, a forum needs to run like a Military School, play by the rules or you're out. No excuses, no coddling, no second chances. Bye bye, so long, adios...
Quote: WizardI'd like to think I would be a nice king, who loved his minions.
Does this mean I'm a minion?
Quote: EvenBobMy question is, why are you doing all this work? If I had a successful forum like this, I'd rule it like a dictator. I'd ban people I didn't like without even telling them, I'd just cancel their accounts. If they don't like it, so what. This isn't a democracy, its a privately owned entity. Like I've said before, I've been on forums since '92 and its not worth the grief to give every jerk an even break. Life it too short, who cares if they don't like it. Go someplace else and be a jerk, you're GONE from here.. I've seen decent forums ruined by the trolls and the owner pulling his hair out. Always remember, its fun to be the King, you can make people disappear. Poof!
I agree 100%. Instead of all those long-winded, far-fetched, whiny face-saving attempts by mkl in the other thread, time and bandwidth could have been saved.
Quote: WizardI've often wondered if I were a real king, how would I rule? I'd like to think I would be a nice king, who loved his minions, and was quick to give the benefit of the doubt when discipline was in order.
I thought kings have subjects while super-villains have minions ;)
When I ran the SF board I did so with a heavy hand. It worked for a while, but in the end I became more than a little bit of a tyrant. Later I worked out some rules and tried to stick by them, but by then it was too late and the board was dead.
If it helps any, here they are:
Suspend anyone for:
Spamming
Advocating illegal activities (including posting instructions to crack software licenses)
Seriously Disrupting the board
Making racist/sexist/homophobic/and overall bigoted statements (except when done by way of an example to illustrate a point).
Ban anyone for:
Repeating any of the above a set number of times (usually three)
Ban spam-bots on sight. Spam-bots will eat fora alive.
A feature I've seen used, which can work well, is to set up a trashcan area. The idea is that hijacked threads and threads with disruptive flame wars get moved there, so other users can safely ignore them. Further posting may or may not be permitted once a thread is moved there.
If you leave the original thread in its pre-hijacking or pre-flame war shape, it often revives for a while.
Quote: JerryLoganI agree 100%.
Too late for toadying, Jerry. You're neck is on the block and executioner is waiting for call from the governor, which probably won't come.
Quote: Doc
I expect it is going to get tedious to keep suspending people who just sign up with multiple user names and continue their poor behavior.
Well, suspending and banning should definitely take less time for the Wizard than a new sign up, or something is wrong with the system.
It should be explained why sign up is a little tedious to prospective new users, if that needs to be done on sign up pages.
EDIT...what I mean is, signing up should be more tedious for a new user than a minute or so. And not easy to use an auto-fill.
What about the afterlife? Are their souls also banned? LOL!
(I'm still thinking about that 'purchase a soul' thread...)
But seriously, there is no reason to be kind and/or provide a "benefit of the doubt". Those of us that behave, do so naturally, and automatically get your benevolence. Those that do not play nice, should get what they deserve.
Quote: JerryLoganI agree 100%. Instead of all those long-winded, far-fetched, whiny face-saving attempts by mkl in the other thread, time and bandwidth could have been saved.
And we would have been rid of you, Jerry, far sooner than we will be (which is quite soon).
Quote: WizardYou're one of many to say that. Maybe you're a faster learner than me, but day by day I'm getting closer to your position. I've often wondered if I were a real king, how would I rule? I'd like to think I would be a nice king, who loved his minions, and was quick to give the benefit of the doubt when discipline was in order. Imagine Mr. Rogers as king.
However, maybe such a king would lose respect and control. Maybe what we need here is a Saddam Hussein kind of toughness. An idea worth thinking about for 2011.
I think that the dividing line, if I were running a board like this, would be identifying those who are "trolling", and those who, however abrasive, are interested in carrying out real discussions. That would be my first triage. Then it would get a little fuzzier--I would have to balance others' reactions, and my own, as well as how substantive a contributor is otherwise, in deciding whether to suspend or ban a member. The ones who are simply name-calling and being abrasive without contributing anything would be next out the door (differentiating such persons, however, from those who are simply trying to incite arguments for their own sick pleasure).
I don't think Saddam Hussein was respected by anyone, even himself. Being an autocrat isn't the answer, although I can think of a couple of internet boards that were run exactly that way. For one thing, you lose the contributions of at least a certain number of people--if you had banned everyone who was nasty at one time or another on THIS board, there would only be two or three members remaining.
The one thing I think that you don't do, that you should have been doing, is to have a really short fuse regarding system hacks and those who simply don't want to acknowledge the math/the reality of how gambling works. Much of your websites' content is detailed explications and analyses of how gambling games work. Someone posting "info" on how they beat roulette or craps or video poker by sticking french fries up their nose, or dancing on one foot, or wearing their lucky purple thong, is basically contradicting all that information that you offer for free (which I appreciate very much BTW), and so should be given the bum's rush.
Take trolls like JerryLogan. His right to free speech doesn't mean you need to provide him a venue to insult people and air his outrageous racism. That has no place on a gambling website, it doesn't provide any benefit to anyone posting here. If he wants to post that sort of thing he can get a blog for free somewhere else. The big question is how many posters is he keeping away with the trolling? I would be worried that readers are leaving this website because they're looking for information, not one man's obsession with Chinese and bad breath.
Personally, I'm sure that Jerry gets much more satisfaction from trying to rile people up on this website than he gets from going to a casino. Regular posters shouldn't be spending the time and effort trying to respond to him, and I'd be surprised if his racism and personal attacks don't drive away lurkers who might one day be productive posters. The first thing I ever posted on this board was an innocent and earnest question. Jerry responded immediately by trashing my hotel plans, making fun of my bankroll, and later in the thread started getting racist. I ignored him because I'm used to trolls, and Jerry isn't doing anything new or inventive, but is that really the reception that we want new posters getting on this forum? Especially considering that this site draws a lot of people who might not be savvy enough to realize Jerry is, more likely than not, trolling for reactions.
I have a similar concern with the system sellers, especially all the recent discussion about Rob Singer. Like MKL noted, your sites are among the most highly thought of when it comes to understanding the mathematics of gambling. I owe almost everything I know to what was written here. This is important because most posters here are just beginning to understand how mathematics relate to casino gambling. When someone posts about a system, they are not posting because they have a genuine interest in discussing it. The Wizard knows this well considering the difficulty he has had with systems in the past. Every time you let someone post about their system outside of that particular forum it is a free advertisement. The only reason they are posting here is because they are hoping to catch the attention of someone who wants easy money. If you are uncomfortable with this forum being used as an advertising venue by the unscrupulous I would be extremely suspicious of anyone discussing systems. You help enable them to plant the seeds of doubt every time you entertain those discussions.
If it was up to me, I'd get rid of blatant racism/sexism/personal attacks and I'd ban individuals who posted about systems outside of the established forum (or delete the thread if they are doing it out of ignorance). A trash can is not a bad idea. Also MKL is on the mark when he says the main issue is trying to figure out who is earnestly posting and who is trolling. Giving the benefit of the doubt to an established poster is one thing, giving the benefit of the doubt to everyone who posts a contrary opinion is an open invitation for trouble. Even if it seems cruel, it is usually better to get rid of one bad poster if it gets everyone else talking about more constructive things.
Quote: touristlocalEven if it seems cruel, it is usually better to get rid of one bad poster if it gets everyone else talking about more constructive things.
Great post. There is a very old saying that applies here. 'One rotten apple can spoil the whole barrel.' Think about it.
'I don't have a heart like Hitler, but sometimes I have to pimp accordingly.'
Translation: PIMP ON WIZ! Smack these knuckleheads around!
This forum is free to view, everything being posted is available to anyone with access to a public computer. You really only have to register an account if you want to participate in discussions or ask questions. If someone is abusing that they don't loose much when you ban them. Everything that's being written is still there. The only people who would truly have to fear being banned are posters who are more interested in trolling and personal vendettas than the others topics being discussed on this site.
Granted there are community areas like the "free speech zone" which are more for entertainment than information, what I am saying might not apply there.
You'll need to be able to check IP addresses and use that too.
Quote: WizardMaybe what we need here is a Saddam Hussein kind of toughness. An idea worth thinking about for 2011.
I am relatively new to this site as far as contributing. Back on July 8 I started a thread "Why is there so much hostility on this website? It received some interesting comments. What has changed from then to now to make you see the light regarding using a quick sword to rid this site of wastefull material?
Quote: WizardYou're one of many to say that. Maybe you're a faster learner than me, but day by day I'm getting closer to your position. I've often wondered if I were a real king, how would I rule? I'd like to think I would be a nice king, who loved his minions, and was quick to give the benefit of the doubt when discipline was in order. Imagine Mr. Rogers as king.
However, maybe such a king would lose respect and control. Maybe what we need here is a Saddam Hussein kind of toughness. An idea worth thinking about for 2011.
I think you would be a fair king, although the death penalty for running a 6:5 BJ game might be a bit harsh--10 years hard labor would be enough. roflmao
OK, jokes aside, the Saddam Hussein thing is a bit overboard. Instead, go with the model in "The Prince." For anyone out there who was never required to read it in school (count me in that group) there is one main part that makes the point. That is the question of if it is better to be liked or feared. As the book says, of course it would be best to be both, but that is rarely acheived on a large scale. And you must avoid getting to being hated and not feared or there will be revolution.
As a model leader, my suggestion is Col Potter from M*A*S*H. He was a fair leader and knew when to let nonsense go. But his people respected him and listened to him. Klinger had to pull KP or fill in potholes more than once when his antics went too far.
Oh, and thanks for the update board. Maybe suspensions could be migrated to an "announcements" section for those of us curious why a name is in brown when reading after a hard day at work.
Quote: WizardFor the benefit of me, as well as others, here my hall of shame of members who have been suspended since 12/25/10.
Member Suspended On Number Days Reason Suspension Ends bjgod/blackjackgolden 12/25/2010 Life Multiple identities Death Martin 12/25/2010 5 Personal insult 12/30/2010 JerryLogan ? 7 Hijacking and personal insult ? mkl654321 11/28/2010 5 Personal insult 12/3/2010 JerryLogan 11/28/2010 5 Personal insult 12/3/2010 Chuck 11/13/2010 Life Insulting the Wizard Death
The list implies some kind of equivalence between myself and JerryLogan, which I consider to be the highest insult. Also, inaccurate.
Quote: DeMangoGamblers who stay on the right side of the bell curve make math geeks boil in anger.
Umm, no. I'd fall into your "math geek" category, but I'm also on the right side of the bell curve. I'm quite happy about that, actually.
There's a big line, however, between being on the right side of the bell curve, and suggesting that one can *move* the bell curve toward the right. Effectively, a system huckster is promising the latter.
Quote: mkl654321The list implies some kind of equivalence between myself and JerryLogan, which I consider to be the highest insult. Also, inaccurate.
How? You can see it shows Jerry was suspended twice and you once.
Nah. Jerry has been hit for multiple offenses. You have been stung once in what was essentially a "both of you go to your corners and cool down" episode. Plus maybe a warning, I think.Quote: mkl654321The list implies some kind of equivalence between myself and JerryLogan, which I consider to be the highest insult. Also, inaccurate.
I'm still stuck on that issue I raised a couple of days ago of not understanding how both of you can correspond with me so politely and intelligently yet brawl with each other like a couple of spoiled six year olds. (And if anyone considers that a personal insult, I will apologize for it -- I just thought it described the situation reasonably well.)
As I said before, looks as if its going to be a tedious process.
Well, Wizard, when you encounter a spammer as blatant as this, I suppose that suspending and banning are not sufficient punishment. When you have his location established, I suggest you consider contacting the authorities and pressing criminal charges. That would be a hassle, but it would likely get the attention of others who would consider such obnoxious behavior.Quote: ibowI'm getting a new IP address late on today since I got a new card for christmas so I thought I would put the one I am using now to full use before I switch! Which means I can finally start posting on www.blackjackinfo.com again..........
More gambling talk, less dart throwing....
Quote: DocI'm still stuck on that issue I raised a couple of days ago of not understanding how both of you can correspond with me so politely and intelligently yet brawl with each other like a couple of spoiled six year olds. (And if anyone considers that a personal insult, I will apologize for it -- I just thought it described the situation reasonably well.)
We all have those people who push our buttons, but to whom we are complelled to respond in a primal way, otherwise it just gets under our skin if let it slide. An "I gotta give him that needed jab right back" type of impulse. It creates pockets of bickering couples as part of our community: MKL & Jerry, etc. There can be a "bad marriage/relation" list formed from these pairings.
I'm often reminded of the tyke's comment about the fight he got into: "It all started when he hit me back!"Quote: PaigowdanWe all have those people who push our buttons, but to whom we are complelled to respond in a primal way, otherwise it just gets under our skin if let it slide. An "I gotta give him that needed jab right back" type of impulse. It creates pockets of bickering couples as part of our community: MKL & Jerry, etc. There can be a "bad marriage/relation" list formed from these pairings.
Quote: EvenBobToo late for toadying, Jerry. You're neck is on the block and executioner is waiting for call from the governor, which probably won't come.
The difference, BOB, is that I'm not addicted to forum posting and I read/post for my own amusement as most people say they do but really don't. If I'm "chopped" I won't be running around with wireless, signing in as a different poster just because I can't live without it. You've already caught mkl doing that when he got stung, but in his case being rejected as an anonymous poster was like having his whole world come crashing down on him since he has likely no one else to turn to for stimulating conversation other than fresh men.
Quote: JerryLoganThe difference, BOB, is that I'm not addicted to forum posting and I read/post for my own amusement as most people say they do but really don't. A day like Christmas to me meant Christ & family, and not rushing to see what's happening on WOV. If I'm "chopped" I won't be running around with wireless, signing in as a different poster just because I can't live without it. You've already caught mkl doing that when he got stung, but in his case being rejected as an anonymous poster was like having his whole world come crashing down on him since he has likely no one else to turn to for stimulating conversation other than fresh men.
Quote: WizardFor the benefit of me, as well as others, here my hall of shame of members who have been suspended since 12/25/10.
Member Suspended On Number Days Reason Suspension Ends bjgod/blackjackgolden /ibow 12/25/2010 Life Multiple identities Death Martin 12/25/2010 5 Personal insult 12/30/2010 JerryLogan ? 7 Hijacking and personal insult ? mkl654321 11/28/2010 5 Personal insult 12/3/2010 JerryLogan 11/28/2010 5 Personal insult 12/3/2010 Chuck 11/13/2010 Life Insulting the Wizard Death
If you care to clear up the question marks in your table, here is where you suspended Jerry for seven days on 12/14/10, ending 12/21. I suppose that it is nerdy of me to care about incomplete blocks in a table. And I'm not really sure about the meaning of "members who have been suspended since 12/25/10."
Quote: Docthe meaning of "members who have been suspended since 12/25/10."
"As of" 12/25/10?
I do not agree that there should be a ban on posting any systems though. Yes, most of us on here realize that there is no system that can be utilized which will overcome the house edge, but not allowing people to post their system would be a mistake. Sure the Iron Cross is a lousy system, but it still is fun to play it once in a while, and at times, it does show a profit. And so does throwing a buck down on the 6 on the big wheel, although you'll never see one of my dollars on there.
While most of the time, I find what JL has written to be a waste of my time, I have enjoyed reading the whole Rob Singer system threads. While I am fairly certain the math people have it correct, I also recall the Ron Harris scam. What was his backdoor? Bet 1 coin, then 2, then 2, then 3, then 5, then 3, or something like that. Suppose someone had stumbled into that sequence and brought it to this board as his/her system. They would have been pointed to the math and shown the math to show how wrong they were. And then out comes the news, and what do you know, they were on to something. Do I think this is the case with Singer's system? No, but I think anyone who says he is 100% wrong, is themselves making a mistake.
Thanks Wizard for the forum, and for taking steps to get the forum back to enjoyable reading again.
