Poll

7 votes (19.44%)
10 votes (27.77%)
15 votes (41.66%)
4 votes (11.11%)

36 members have voted

Martin
Martin
Joined: Nov 20, 2010
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December 24th, 2010 at 8:23:05 AM permalink
Although I am a dark sider by nature I hate standing around during long hands waiting for the inevitable. Consequently I place bet and sometimes, especially during long hands, I make a lot more money place betting than don't betting.

I tell every new comer I meet at the table - there's no money on the line - the only money is in the boxes either through place or come bets.

What's your preference, and why?
blackjackgolden
blackjackgolden
Joined: Dec 23, 2010
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December 24th, 2010 at 8:29:10 AM permalink
Quote: Martin

Although I am a dark sider by nature I hate standing around during long hands waiting for the inevitable. Consequently I place bet and sometimes, especially during long hands, I make a lot more money place betting than don't betting.

I tell every new comer I meet at the table - there's no money on the line - the only money is in the boxes either through place or come bets.

What's your preference, and why?



My preference is the place numbers, though.....

For the come out I like my 6\5, 5\6 set

For place bets I like my 6\5, 5\4 set

I like that little box that has those horny bets. Absoultly love the straight six's set...
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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December 24th, 2010 at 8:30:09 AM permalink
The only serious betting I do in craps is a bet I can back up with free odds
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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December 24th, 2010 at 9:48:39 AM permalink
Quote: Martin

Although I am a dark sider by nature I hate standing around during long hands waiting for the inevitable. Consequently I place bet and sometimes, especially during long hands, I make a lot more money place betting than don't betting.

I tell every new comer I meet at the table - there's no money on the line - the only money is in the boxes either through place or come bets.

What's your preference, and why?



Come bets and pass line bets are exactly equivalent. Therefore, it's incorrect to tell someone that a pass line bet is worse (or better) than a come bet. And a place bet is worse than either.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Martin
Martin
Joined: Nov 20, 2010
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December 24th, 2010 at 9:58:43 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Come bets and pass line bets are exactly equivalent. Therefore, it's incorrect to tell someone that a pass line bet is worse (or better) than a come bet. And a place bet is worse than either.



Yes in a mathematical sense that is correct - however, you understand craps as a game - I understand it as a sport. That is a an insurmountable difference between us. To me craps contains small risk and large risk but no risk that I am unwilling to take. If you are not willing to take a risk then keep your money in your pocket.

It is not incorrect to play at a sport the way I play it - just as it is not incorrect for you to play at a game the way you play it.

Therefore I feel that you owe me an apology.
mkl654321
mkl654321
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December 24th, 2010 at 10:06:17 AM permalink
Quote: Martin

Yes in a mathematical sense that is correct - however, you understand craps as a game - I understand it as a sport. That is a an insurmountable difference between us. To me craps contains small risk and large risk but no risk that I am unwilling to take. If you are not willing to take a risk then keep your money in your pocket.

It is not incorrect to play at a sport the way I play it - just as it is not incorrect for you to play at a game the way you play it.

Therefore I feel that you owe me an apology.



Sorry, no. You can play the game any way you like. I was referring to your penchant for telling new players that the pass line bet is inferior to the come bet, which is not true.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Martin
Martin
Joined: Nov 20, 2010
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December 24th, 2010 at 10:20:17 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Sorry, no. You can play the game any way you like. I was referring to your penchant for telling new players that the pass line bet is inferior to the come bet, which is not true.



Yes you do -

I admit both bets are mathematically the same - of that there is no dispute -

What I am saying is that the opportunity cost of the pass line bet is greater than the opportunity cost of the come bet.
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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December 24th, 2010 at 10:44:09 AM permalink
Quote: Martin

Yes you do -

I admit both bets are mathematically the same - of that there is no dispute -

What I am saying is that the opportunity cost of the pass line bet is greater than the opportunity cost of the come bet.



No, they are equal, assuming the bets are of equal size.

"Opportunity cost" means what you forgo in order to do something. In the case of a craps bet, the opportunity cost is whatever else you could have spent the money on, and whatever else you could have done with the time it took to make the bet. Since that time is a few seconds in each case, and the bets have identical HA's, their opportunity costs are equal.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
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December 24th, 2010 at 10:47:40 AM permalink
Quote: Martin

I admit both bets are mathematically the same - of that there is no dispute -

What I am saying is that the opportunity cost of the pass line bet is greater than the opportunity cost of the come bet.



What are you using to measure opportunity cost, if not math?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Martin
Martin
Joined: Nov 20, 2010
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December 24th, 2010 at 11:16:50 AM permalink
Time - you have heard the saying "time is money" haven't you? During any given roll money on the rail is not earning. Therefore mathematically it's value in the game is 0. Only money on the table earns - if you have already taken or laid max odds on the line bet then your only choice is place or come betting in order to maximize your opportunity. Thus in a half hour you can make some money or lose your buy-in. If one assumes the buy-in to be the level of risk that you are willing to take then the loss of the buy-in is just the price of doing business on that particular date/time.

I know the math, I accept the risk, and in the same half hour that some might make a couple of bucks on a pass line bet I might make a couple of thousand on my come bets. Who maximized the opportunity and who did not?

Same math, same rules, just a different approach - I stand by my contention - there is no money on the pass line - it is all in the little boxes by the dealers.

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