## Poll

36 members have voted

MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
• Posts: 6526
December 24th, 2010 at 11:22:22 AM permalink
But you have to balance out time vs. loss rate. Your most time-efficient play is to put your entire bankroll on one bet and then, win or lose, walk away. You have the same amount of wager volume in approximately 15 seconds, and then you can use the remainder of the time for something else. That's obviously not what you want to do, though. Is the question "how do I spend 30 minutes at a dice table where I'm actively making (or winning) a bet every roll?"
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
guido111
Joined: Sep 16, 2010
• Posts: 707
December 24th, 2010 at 11:28:19 AM permalink
Quote: Martin

I tell every new comer I meet at the table - there's no money on the line - the only money is in the boxes either through place or come bets.

There is BIG money on the pass line.

There is some money in the boxes but you better have a BIG bankroll or many bankrolls to withstand the very large variance that goes with those bets.
7winner
Joined: May 31, 2010
• Posts: 198
December 24th, 2010 at 11:33:11 AM permalink
Quote: guido111

There is BIG money on the pass line.

There is some money in the boxes but you better have a BIG bankroll or many bankrolls to withstand the very large variance that goes with those bets.

And those box numbers have a way higher house edge than just the pass with no or single odds.
Pass Line rocks!
7 winner chicken dinner!
guido111
Joined: Sep 16, 2010
• Posts: 707
December 24th, 2010 at 11:35:03 AM permalink
Quote: Martin

Consequently I place bet and sometimes, especially during long hands, I make a lot more money place betting than don't betting.

And one will lose more money place betting than lose by don't betting.
Martin
Joined: Nov 20, 2010
• Posts: 149
December 24th, 2010 at 11:43:37 AM permalink
Quote: 7winner

And those box numbers have a way higher house edge than just the pass with no or single odds.
Pass Line rocks!

A come bet has the exact same edge as does a pass line bet - that's been established for a long time. The place bets are a bit longer, yes but not he come bets.
Doc
Joined: Feb 27, 2010
• Posts: 7183
December 24th, 2010 at 11:44:00 AM permalink
Quote: Martin

... I stand by my contention - there is no money on the pass line - it is all in the little boxes by the dealers.

I think the only mode under which I endorse Martin's statement is with this interpretation: There is no money on the pass line, only chips being wagered, and "the little boxes by the dealers" refers to the drop boxes, where there actually is a good bit of money most of the time.
Martin
Joined: Nov 20, 2010
• Posts: 149
December 24th, 2010 at 11:53:27 AM permalink
Quote: guido111

And one will lose more money place betting than lose by don't betting.

That is not necessarily true - it depends on how much you bet. But I really don't feel like debating it. Do you ever venture off the don't pass line and bet something else?

That's more or less the question.
Martin
Joined: Nov 20, 2010
• Posts: 149
December 24th, 2010 at 11:54:33 AM permalink
Quote: Doc

I think the only mode under which I endorse Martin's statement is with this interpretation: There is no money on the pass line, only chips being wagered, and "the little boxes by the dealers" refers to the drop boxes, where there actually is a good bit of money most of the time.

I stand by my contention - you can't make money on the pass line - you can only "grind" and grinders lose in all things. The only place where you can make money in craps is in the "point boxes" by the dealers.
Martin
Joined: Nov 20, 2010
• Posts: 149
December 24th, 2010 at 12:09:03 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

But you have to balance out time vs. loss rate. Your most time-efficient play is to put your entire bankroll on one bet and then, win or lose, walk away. You have the same amount of wager volume in approximately 15 seconds, and then you can use the remainder of the time for something else. That's obviously not what you want to do, though. Is the question "how do I spend 30 minutes at a dice table where I'm actively making (or winning) a bet every roll?"

Your first statement is correct. However in my book the money in craps is in the volatility. The value add is the opportunity to put the same money back to work over and over and over again. Yes there is a probability of losing your buy-in - as I have said that is a risk - I accept the risk but I am after the biggest reward. The biggest reward comes from the opportunity to play the hand for all it is worth.

I seldom lost money when I played a simple game of don't pass + 2 or 3X odds. If I went down eventually the pendulum swung and I got back even again. Sometimes it took hours. On a good day I might have cashed out a couple hundred ahead. One day I'm shooting (from the pass line) and my hand lasted through three stick changes. I cashed out about \$500 not including buy-in - a guy at the other end of the table cashed out \$22 thousand. All of it made on my roll since he came in just as I started with about a grand buy-in. He wasn't playing the pass line at all. I thought about that for a long time and came to the conclusion that I was doing something really, really wrong. I was leaving opportunity on the table.

I stand by my contention.

So, ME - What do you play - come or place and why?
ahiromu
Joined: Jan 15, 2010