Discussion III about the Suspension List
Quote: MDawgDon't try to twist it, I stated that I gave you the opportunity to withdraw your claim and you called that a lie too.
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Now that is another lie.
My post was quite and fully that it was a lie that I wanted to participate in the challenge.
Furthermore you misquoted me above by only posting the first line of my quote.
Like all despicable lawyers you are the one who twists everything.
Quote: darkoz
Like all despicable lawyers you are the one who twists everything.
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So now you are insulting me implying that "all" lawyers are despicable.
But you defended yourself in this Coach's Challenge case (and lost), so you acted as a lawyer yourself here.
Quote: MDawgQuote: darkoz
Like all despicable lawyers you are the one who twists everything.
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So now you are insulting me implying that "all" lawyers are despicable.
But you defended yourself in this Coach's Challenge case (and lost), so you acted as a lawyer yourself here.
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Lol, everyone knows all lawyers are despicable.
That's an insult to lawyers.
I have dealt with enough to know (although there was one who I can say was a straight shooter on my billing)
What else can be done to piss off longtime members?
Quote: billryanVince Lombardi used to talk about addition by subtraction. It seems like this forum is attempting subtraction by addition.
What else can be done to piss off longtime members?
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Totally agree!
Forum rules ignored by mods, altered by mods to suit whims, challenges enforced (I certainly didn't sign up for coach challenges) that then get ruled on by mentioning things NOT mentioned in the challenge.
This forum has devolved into a show that hits the fan.
As to D.Oz,
Quote: WizardI recommend that you get past the fact that you lost and move on.
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Quote: MDawgIf BBB wants to leave, if D.Oz wants to leave, they may leave, no one is forcing them.
As to D.Oz,Quote: WizardI recommend that you get past the fact that you won and were incorrectly judged and move on.
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I fixed that for the wizard :)
Quote: MDawgIf BBB wants to leave, if D.Oz wants to leave, no one is forcing them.
Just to coach challenges
Quote: darkoz
Quote: WizardI recommend that you get past the fact that you won and were incorrectly judged and move on.
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I fixed that for the wizard :)
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So now you're just asking to be suspended.
Quote: MDawgQuote: darkoz
Quote: WizardI recommend that you get past the fact that you won and were incorrectly judged and move on.
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I fixed that for the wizard :)
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So now you're just asking to be suspended.
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Don't have to ask.
The Wizard does what he wants
Quote: MDawg
Criswell is a fraud anyway
Quote: unJonQuote: beachbumbabsQuote: rsactuaryLet's leave it up to BBB to decide if a one time exception should be made. She bore the brunt of her antics and the nukeable offense if I recall correctly.
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Yes, I did bear the brunt. Several very abusive posts, including calling me a c### (and many other things) for the first and only time in my life, and being treated very badly by Gordon and a couple others for enforcing rules I didn't make. That whole interaction was most of the reason I left, along withe caretaking my suffering and dying mom. (I'm guessing maybe Gordon as a newer admin might have a little better appreciation with how hard it is to be fair, kind, and honest...now.)
And now I find nathan has been reinstated. I haven't participated much since returning, but that is the straw that breaks my camel's back. She has no right to return, and there is zero reason to believe she won't just be the same problem she has been, including FIFTY or so socks since her nuking, which has lost us dozens of more deserving members for a single instance. What's the point of having admins or rules if it's not going to be equally run?
Best wishes to the rest of you. Play hard, play smart, and goodbye.
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Ugh this sucks. I guess I had assumed the Wizard had discussed it with you.
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Holy WTF reinstate Nathan without talking with BBB???
Also, after Nathan created at least one sock.
Wiz, please post your thinking here here
Quote: darkozLike all despicable lawyers you are the one who twists everything.
Quote: darkozeveryone knows all lawyers are despicable.[
Hey, we're not ALL despicable.
Some of us are only heinous, and a few only mildly reprehensible.
We're an odd bunch: "Lawyers do it in their briefs."
Quote: 100xOddsQuote: unJonQuote: beachbumbabsQuote: rsactuaryLet's leave it up to BBB to decide if a one time exception should be made. She bore the brunt of her antics and the nukeable offense if I recall correctly.
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Yes, I did bear the brunt. Several very abusive posts, including calling me a c### (and many other things) for the first and only time in my life, and being treated very badly by Gordon and a couple others for enforcing rules I didn't make. That whole interaction was most of the reason I left, along withe caretaking my suffering and dying mom. (I'm guessing maybe Gordon as a newer admin might have a little better appreciation with how hard it is to be fair, kind, and honest...now.)
And now I find nathan has been reinstated. I haven't participated much since returning, but that is the straw that breaks my camel's back. She has no right to return, and there is zero reason to believe she won't just be the same problem she has been, including FIFTY or so socks since her nuking, which has lost us dozens of more deserving members for a single instance. What's the point of having admins or rules if it's not going to be equally run?
Best wishes to the rest of you. Play hard, play smart, and goodbye.
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Ugh this sucks. I guess I had assumed the Wizard had discussed it with you.
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Holy WTF reinstate Nathan without talking with BBB???
Also, after Nathan created at least one sock.
Wiz, please post your thinking here here
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Yes that is the implication.
Quote: beachbumbabs
And now I find nathan has been reinstated.
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("now I find") certainly implies that she knew nothing about this, and came to find out.
Quote: beachbumbabsI haven't participated much since returning, but that is the straw that breaks my camel's back. She has no right to return
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Quote: beachbumbabsWhat's the point of having admins or rules if it's not going to be equally run?
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The implication is clear that BBB was not consulted in advance and was or is against Nathan's return.
Is this actually what happened?
I do know that it is common and public knowledge that Wizard rarely reverses his mods, and has consulted with his mods on forum wide matters.
Quote: MDawgQuote: 100xOddsQuote: unJonQuote: beachbumbabsQuote: rsactuaryLet's leave it up to BBB to decide if a one time exception should be made. She bore the brunt of her antics and the nukeable offense if I recall correctly.
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Yes, I did bear the brunt. Several very abusive posts, including calling me a c### (and many other things) for the first and only time in my life, and being treated very badly by Gordon and a couple others for enforcing rules I didn't make. That whole interaction was most of the reason I left, along withe caretaking my suffering and dying mom. (I'm guessing maybe Gordon as a newer admin might have a little better appreciation with how hard it is to be fair, kind, and honest...now.)
And now I find nathan has been reinstated. I haven't participated much since returning, but that is the straw that breaks my camel's back. She has no right to return, and there is zero reason to believe she won't just be the same problem she has been, including FIFTY or so socks since her nuking, which has lost us dozens of more deserving members for a single instance. What's the point of having admins or rules if it's not going to be equally run?
Best wishes to the rest of you. Play hard, play smart, and goodbye.
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Ugh this sucks. I guess I had assumed the Wizard had discussed it with you.
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Holy WTF reinstate Nathan without talking with BBB???
Also, after Nathan created at least one sock.
Wiz, please post your thinking here here
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Yes that is the implication.Quote: beachbumbabs
And now I find nathan has been reinstated.
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("now I find") certainly implies that she knew nothing about this, and came to find out.Quote: beachbumbabsI haven't participated much since returning, but that is the straw that breaks my camel's back. She has no right to return
link to original postQuote: beachbumbabsWhat's the point of having admins or rules if it's not going to be equally run?
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The implication is clear that BBB was not consulted in advance and was or is against Nathan's return.
Is this actually what happened?
I do know that it is common and public knowledge that Wizard rarely reverses his mods, and has consulted with his mods on forum wide matters.
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To the best of my knowledge, Babs' report is accurate.
Did the Wiz throw BBB under the bus in his zeal to reinstate Nathan?
Did her forum inactivity imply that her input was not necessary before he made his very questionable decision?
*good topics for a poll*
Quote: MrVQuote: darkozLike all despicable lawyers you are the one who twists everything.
Quote: darkozeveryone knows all lawyers are despicable.[
Hey, we're not ALL despicable.
Some of us are only heinous, and a few only mildly reprehensible.
We're an odd bunch: "Lawyers do it in their briefs."
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I know.
It's the way they "tell the truth"
My own attorney one day showed up for court and requested the judge give her an extension because she had a technical issue with her computer. It would not turn on.
Afterwards I asked her about having her laptop fixed and she said there was nothing wrong with it. She had left it at home.
She said it wouldn't turn on because she left it at home so technically she hadn't lied under oath.
Those types of "true lies" are what makes lawyers appear despicable.
Like all professions I am sure the members all have different degrees of egregiousness
BBB has been gone a while, but has CLEARLY mentioned the family issues that kept her away. She had just started returning and posting and then the worst rule breaker, by far, in WoV history was reinstated. The rule breaker who mislead another member in a real physical meetup. Who defamed BBB when she was a more active moderator. Who lied REPEATEDLY about all her various sock puppets…
If we allow Nathan, who has a prolonged history of making up stories under literally dozens of socks, to come add nothing but junk here, while losing DO and BBB, it’s just sad.
I mean, she’s been back a second and posted the BS about betting $50 a spin on slots. As usual, when no one believed her because it was patently ridiculous, she weakly tried to backtrack.
Rant over.
Quote: WizardQuote: Ace2Most of it is probably a lie
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Personal insult. Three-day suspension.
To clarify the rules, you may say you don't believe anything stated, but you can't call it a lie (or probably a lie). It's even worse to call the poster a liar.
If you don't believe a claim is try, explain why. Just dropping an L-bomb is not allowed.
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implied that I was "despicable,"
Quote: darkoz
Like all despicable lawyers you are the one who twists everything.
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and misquoted the Wizard.
Quote: darkoz
Quote: WizardI recommend that you get past the fact that you won and were incorrectly judged and move on.
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I fixed that for the wizard :)
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You missed all that?
And it all stems from that it still sticks in his craw that he lost the Coach's Challenge and seems incapable of moving on.
Let's just see if he even keeps to his word and leaves the forum permanently after he is suspended. That's what all this stems from he still apparently holds a resentment against me and Wizard.
As far as BBB, if Wizard never consulted with her before reinstating Nathan, then she might have a legitimate beef. If that's not the way it happened, then what?
Quote: MrVSo then, it comes down to this:
Did the Wiz throw BBB under the bus in his zeal to reinstate Nathan?
Did her forum inactivity imply that her input was not necessary before he made his very questionable decision?
*good topics for a poll*
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It's Wizard's benevolent dictatorship. Consultation with others is never really necessary.
I don't believe anyone was deliberately "thrown under the bus". Such would seem to imply malicious intent, which I have seen no indications of.
Quote: MDawgThe demise of D.Oz has nothing to do with BBB or Nathan. He's getting suspended because he called my post a lie,
Quote: WizardQuote: Ace2Most of it is probably a lie
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Personal insult. Three-day suspension.
To clarify the rules, you may say you don't believe anything stated, but you can't call it a lie (or probably a lie). It's even worse to call the poster a liar.
If you don't believe a claim is try, explain why. Just dropping an L-bomb is not allowed.
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implied that I was "despicable,"Quote: darkoz
Like all despicable lawyers you are the one who twists everything.
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and misquoted the Wizard.Quote: darkoz
Quote: WizardI recommend that you get past the fact that you won and were incorrectly judged and move on.
link to original postQuote: darkoz
I fixed that for the wizard :)
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You missed all that?
And it all stems from that it still sticks in his craw that he lost the Coach's Challenge and seems incapable of moving on.
Let's just see if he even keeps to his word and leaves the forum permanently after he is suspended. That's what all this stems from he still apparently holds a resentment against me and Wizard.
As far as BBB, if Wizard never consulted with her before reinstating Nathan, then she might have a legitimate beef. If that's not the way it happened, then what?
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I can call it a lie because it directly concerned me. Your statement that I insisted on the challenge is so false there is nothing left but to call it what it is. A complete fabrication. There is enough documentary evidence to prove that
Quote: unJonUgh this sucks. I guess I had assumed the Wizard had discussed it with you.
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I did. I told her I was considering letting Karen back and requested her thoughts on it. She said I could do what I want.
Quote: DieterQuote: MrVSo then, it comes down to this:
Did the Wiz throw BBB under the bus in his zeal to reinstate Nathan?
Did her forum inactivity imply that her input was not necessary before he made his very questionable decision?
*good topics for a poll*
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It's Wizard's benevolent dictatorship. Consultation with others is never really necessary.
I don't believe anyone was deliberately "thrown under the bus". Such would seem to imply malicious intent, which I have seen no indications of.
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Agree here. No way Mike was thinking about BBB when he reinstated the queen of socks. He just has a soft spot in his heart for her.
My feelings on whether Nathan should be allowed back are clear. That being said, it IS the Wiz’s house, and I’ll interact with her when she posts something interesting.
As a retired lawyer my concern was about "the rules."
She's back, a fait accompli: so be it.
Quote: WizardQuote: unJonUgh this sucks. I guess I had assumed the Wizard had discussed it with you.
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I did. I told her I was considering letting Karen back and requested her thoughts on it. She said I could do what I want.
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Quote: MDawgAs far as BBB, if Wizard never consulted with her before reinstating Nathan, then she might have a legitimate beef. If that's not the way it happened, then what?
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Doesn't this mean then that BBB deliberately misled the forum as to what transpired? What is to be gained by implying that you were never consulted and were against it all along, when in fact you were consulted in advance, and were noncommittal.
Quote: MDawgQuote: 100xOddsQuote: unJon
Ugh this sucks. I guess I had assumed the Wizard had discussed it with you.
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Holy WTF reinstate Nathan without talking with BBB???
Also, after Nathan created at least one sock.
Wiz, please post your thinking here here
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Yes that is the implication.Quote: beachbumbabs
And now I find nathan has been reinstated.
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("now I find") certainly implies that she knew nothing about this, and came to find out.Quote: beachbumbabsI haven't participated much since returning, but that is the straw that breaks my camel's back. She has no right to return
link to original postQuote: beachbumbabsWhat's the point of having admins or rules if it's not going to be equally run?
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The implication is clear that BBB was not consulted in advance and was or is against Nathan's return.
Is this actually what happened?
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Quote: MDawgDoesn't this mean then that BBB deliberately misled the forum as to what transpired? What is to be gained by implying that you were never consulted and were against it all along, when in fact you were consulted in advance, and were noncommittal.
You would have to ask BBB those questions. We seem to both want to go on our separate ways. I wish her well and thank her for her years of service.
Am I right?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/36338-discussion-iii-about-the-suspension-list/49/#post916290
Quote: OnceDearAnd now I see BillRyan is suspended. Not in the suspension list, so I'm guessing that it was Wizard taking exception to this... Not so much for the mildest of expletives, but for questioning Mike's authority.
Am I right?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/36338-discussion-iii-about-the-suspension-list/49/#post916290
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Possibly but more likely it was personal insult to MDawg. A quite direct one. Made yesterday.
I'm not complaining, Just observing.
Carry on.
....my wayward son...
Quote: darkozLike all despicable lawyers you are the one who twists everything.
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Personal insult. Three days. You are also officially warned that the repeated complaints about the "coach's challenge" suspension are trolling. Get past it.
Quote: billryanAny particular reason you are being such a dick?
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Three days.
Quote: rxwineAnyone remember the newsgroups where "flame" wars went on endlessly with quotes within quotes going on near endlessly? Not a lot has changed, except the appearance.
I'm not complaining, Just observing.
Carry on.
....my wayward son...
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Sure do. So much of what we have now came out of Usenet yet few even know what it was.
Quote: WizardQuote: billryanAny particular reason you are being such a dick?
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Three days.
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What on earth got into half this place this morning?
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: WizardQuote: billryanAny particular reason you are being such a dick?
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Three days.
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What on earth got into half this place this morning?
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Well said. There is a certain life skill: knowing when to keep quiet (or "shut up.") Not everyone has learned this skill. Sometimes waters run deep and I decided pretty quickly that the best way I could honor this good-bye message from BBB would be with my respectful silence.
What would have happened to anyone else who had posted something like that, that did not quite ring true to what transpired?
Quote: MDawgIf she had posted something closer to the truth - that she was consulted in advance, and was noncommittal (deferred to the Wizard) - would have obviated most of this drama.
What would have happened to anyone else who had posted something like that, that did not quite ring true to what transpired?
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It’s only drama to those making this their life. It’s a forum. People come people go.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: MDawgIf she had posted something closer to the truth - that she was consulted in advance, and was noncommittal (deferred to the Wizard) - would have obviated most of this drama.
What would have happened to anyone else who had posted something like that, that did not quite ring true to what transpired?
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It’s only drama to those making this their life. It’s a forum. People come people go.
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I really don't understand the apparent implication that someone who has already announced they are leaving (BBB) should be banned. BBB is the one who is making this, 'Drama'? She said she was leaving and she left.
Also, given that she has roughly twenty posts in the last three years, I think that there's no question that BBB has not been making this forum her life.
Quote: Mission146Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: MDawgIf she had posted something closer to the truth - that she was consulted in advance, and was noncommittal (deferred to the Wizard) - would have obviated most of this drama.
What would have happened to anyone else who had posted something like that, that did not quite ring true to what transpired?
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It’s only drama to those making this their life. It’s a forum. People come people go.
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I really don't understand the apparent implication that someone who has already announced they are leaving (BBB) should be banned. BBB is the one who is making this, 'Drama'? She said she was leaving and she left.
Also, given that she has roughly twenty posts in the last three years, I think that there's no question that BBB has not been making this forum her life.
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Did anyone say she should be banned? Clearly she either officially or de facto resigned her commission. But she is not in red
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: Mission146Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: MDawgIf she had posted something closer to the truth - that she was consulted in advance, and was noncommittal (deferred to the Wizard) - would have obviated most of this drama.
What would have happened to anyone else who had posted something like that, that did not quite ring true to what transpired?
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It’s only drama to those making this their life. It’s a forum. People come people go.
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I really don't understand the apparent implication that someone who has already announced they are leaving (BBB) should be banned. BBB is the one who is making this, 'Drama'? She said she was leaving and she left.
Also, given that she has roughly twenty posts in the last three years, I think that there's no question that BBB has not been making this forum her life.
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Did anyone say she should be banned? Clearly she either officially or de facto resigned her commission. But she is not in red
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You seem to have trouble with the word, ‘Implied.’ I was responding to both of your posts; asking what would have happened (quoted above) to ‘anyone else’ who posted ‘something like that, that did not ring true to what transpired’ implies, at least to my interpretation, that BBB should be banned as it implies someone else would be.
Anyway, I don’t see any compelling reason to ban someone who has already announced her departure.
I also don’t know why anyone should pile on BBB; it sounds to me as though she had a tough few years. As Wizard himself basically said, he kind of missed BBB’s cue on that one; anytime a woman says, “Do what you want,” it should be interpreted as, “Absolutely DO NOT do the thing you’re suggesting you’re about to do.”
Quote: WizardQuote: unJonUgh this sucks. I guess I had assumed the Wizard had discussed it with you.
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I did. I told her I was considering letting Karen back and requested her thoughts on it. She said I could do what I want.
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I was of mixed thoughts about whether to respond to this, but heard it had been posted. I'm not willing to leave on an untruth. Mike did not communicate with me in any way he was going to, or considering going to, or any permutation of nathan returning as a subject of anything.
The best I can figure is he might be referencing something now out of context and out of memory from 6-7 years ago, among the couple hundred hours of work adminning her accounts.
I don't think it's a rule violation to say a PM didn't happen, as opposed to quoting one. Mike will have to look to himself as to why he would put a boot in my backside and say this.
If we HAD discussed it in private, I would never have posted my opinion on the matter, because once an admin decision is made, the admins should present a united front. But Mike might also have not done the reinstatement if he knew what I thought. Idk. I'm no longer green, and have heard nothing from him, so I guess we're done here.
I find either option incredible, but I can't see the option that's in between.
I invite Mike to elaborate as a courtesy to you. Please authorise him to reveal whatever private comms are salient.
Bless you Barbara. You were genuinely appreciated when you moderated. Those that didn't appreciate you don't and didn't deserve your contribution.
Stay safe and sane, Hon.
Quote: Mission146As Wizard himself basically said, he kind of missed BBB’s cue on that one; anytime a woman says, “Do what you want,” it should be interpreted as, “Absolutely DO NOT do the thing you’re suggesting you’re about to do.”
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Nah come on, they're not married. She works for him! If she wanted to voice unequivocally what she wanted to say when asked about how she felt about Nathan reinstatement, she could have.
The existence of a “Do what you want” PM from BBB to Wizard regarding Nathan reinstatement would settle this matter.
Quote: OnceDearI invite Mike to elaborate as a courtesy to you. Please authorise him to reveal whatever private comms are salient.
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That is fair. I checked 125 pages of old messages in my private message in box as well as other methods of communication I have with BBB. Unfortunately for me, I did not find the message in question. My best explanation is that I deleted it.
However, I have been accused of false quoting, which I take seriously. That said, without any evidence to back up my claim, I would like to add the qualifier "as I recall" to my claim. I believe this happened very confidently, but I also know that people can remember things incorrectly, especially that happened over a year ago.
If BBB wishes to press charges for false quoting, despite my rewording, I will serve time for the statement. I also apologize for making a claim, which I still maintain, that I can't back up.
