Discussion II about the Suspension List

Quote: GWAE

I thought the political threads had more leniency since most debates turn bad? I have the thread blocked so I have no idea what was actually said.

"Turn" bad?!?! Has any such thread on this site ever been anything other than a flaming toxic waste dump, for a single instant, beginning with the very first moment of always incredibly ill-conceived creation?

Solution #1:
-->-->--> moronic political graffiti wacko douchebag threads -->-->--> list all frequent posters -->-->-->
--->--->---> [NUKE-ALL] --->--->---> [REPEAT NUKE-ALL <pause> RE-REPEAT] (Just to be sure).

Alternative to #1:
"Welcome to the official sewage repository and emotional-cognitive special needs club of the internet. For your protection, please prepare to check all functioning neurons and normally modulated synapses at the door for safekeeping before entering." For visiting schedule or more information please see administrative desk at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rawson-Neal_Hospital

Quote: gamerfreak

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: Wizard

The existing suspension list exceeded the maximum length for a post so I split off suspensions from 2014, 2015, and 2016 into this archive #2.

Romes is in red?
anxiously awaiting the suspension list update

I think it was because he said AZDuffman had a little brain in the Trump thread.

But but but she told me size doesn't matter!

Quote: prozema

Quote: gamerfreak

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: Wizard

The existing suspension list exceeded the maximum length for a post so I split off suspensions from 2014, 2015, and 2016 into this archive #2.

Romes is in red?
anxiously awaiting the suspension list update

I think it was because he said AZDuffman had a little brain in the Trump thread.

But but but she told me size doesn't matter!

I would think the truth was it's own defense.

Quote: billryan

I would think the truth was it's own defense.

Nope, truth most certainly is NOT a defense, at least not always.

Fore example, if a man with no arms and no legs posts here you would get suspended if you called him a "cripple."

Similarly, if a woman is admittedly quite overweight and you say she is a "fatso" you'll get bounced.

Heck, if a member were afflicted with Down Syndrome and you called the poster a "retard:" well, you get the idea.

I suspect the acid test may be whether the target of the comment would feel uncomfortably embarrassed and offended by the post.

Quote: MrV

Nope, truth most certainly is NOT a defense, at least not always.

Fore example, is a man with no arms and no legs posts here you would get suspended if you called him a "cripple."

Similarly, if a woman is admittedly quite overweight and you say she is a "fatso" you'll get bounced.

Heck, if a member were afflicted with Down Syndrome and you called them a"retard:" well, you get the idea.

I suspect the acid test may be whether the target of the comment would feel uncomfortably embarrassed and offended by the post.

Kind of reminds me of a "Daughter can talk crap about her own mother, but if her boyfriend talks crap about her mother, she is allowed to and has every right to get pissed off at him for talking crap about her Mom."

Quote: MrV

Nope, truth most certainly is NOT a defense, at least not always.

Fore example, is a man with no arms and no legs posts here you would get suspended if you called him a "cripple."

Similarly, if a woman is admittedly quite overweight and you say she is a "fatso" you'll get bounced.

Heck, if a member were afflicted with Down Syndrome and you called them a"retard:" well, you get the idea.

I suspect the acid test may be whether the target of the comment would feel uncomfortably embarrassed and offended by the post.

You wouldn't get suspended for stating a man with no legs has no legs, would you?
Or for calling a 400 pound person a 400 pound person.
I thought the right was against safe places and micro aggressions.

Quote: billryan

I thought the right was against safe places and micro aggressions.

You’d think, but as soon as someone makes a meanie comment and doesn’t get banned they cry moderator bias.

Quote: prozema

But but but she told me size doesn't matter!

Women laugh and laugh over that one.
If a woman is real with you, she'll admit
penis size matters a lot. But if she likes
you, it won't kill the relationship if you're
average.

Quote: MrV

Nope, truth most certainly is NOT a defense, at least not always.

Fore example, if a man with no arms and no legs posts here you would get suspended if you called him a "cripple."

Similarly, if a woman is admittedly quite overweight and you say she is a "fatso" you'll get bounced.

Heck, if a member were afflicted with Down Syndrome and you called the poster a "retard:" well, you get the idea.

Those are terrible examples to make your point that the truth does not matter in terms of forum rules. Fatso and retard are obviously insulting and demeaning. You would be allowed to allude to someone else's handicap, whatever it were, if it were pertinent to the topic, especially if the person in question brought it up first. However, it would have to be done in a polite and respectful way.

Cripple I find to not be so bad. It would depend on context on that one.

Quote:

I suspect the acid test may be whether the target of the comment would feel uncomfortably embarrassed and offended by the post.

You suspect correctly.

Quote: Wizard

Fatso and retard are obviously insulting and demeaning.

Duly noted. You're so strict around here..

Quote: Wizard

Those are terrible examples to make your point that the truth does not matter in terms of forum rules. Fatso and retard are obviously insulting and demeaning. You would be allowed to allude to someone else's handicap, whatever it were, if it were pertinent to the topic, especially if the person in question brought it up first. However, it would have to be done in a polite and respectful way.

Cripple I find to not be so bad. It would depend on context on that one.



You suspect correctly.

Ever read "Radical Chic & Mau-Mauing the Flak Catchers" by Tom Wolfe? If not, you should. Well for whatever it might be worth, here's a similar context thing, and a "whoever says it & who they say it to, changes what was said" thing, in short story form. And I guess a "context isn't math" story.

A close friend where I went to school... well okay a very exceptionally good looking social acquaintance of the female persuasion, who I invested a lot of time and precious starving student beer money in, but never quite managed to get as close to as I had in mind, in spite of her being a slow moving target in her wheelchair... was also a very bright & busy young gal already on her way to becoming somewhat of a public figure & running some stuff. When she wasn't unintentionally making random guys suddenly just stop and stare because of her looks, and then right away turn a different color and run away and hide because they were struck mute with fear that this babe on wheels would be thinking they were staring at her wheels instead of... well they were socially inept inexperienced 20-somethings who wouldn't know what to say about either thing, so that's what they often did.

Even some of the mealy mouthed educrats in tweed suits with walls covered in obscure framed documents intended to announce that they were VERY important experts at the business of being very important, sometimes also responded that way when she wheeled in to hit them up to yield something for the 'good-cause-you-can't-argue-with' thing she started. That thing she ran was involved in inciting conspicuously virtuous and very photogenic little mobs for the purpose of kicking down or tunneling through (figuratively speaking) a lot of really stupid stuff that usually served no real purpose, but made it harder for those like her to be in the joint to get her degree. And that rabble rousing thing she created and ran and managed to make the university pay for, well it was called the College Resource Information Program back then. That's C.R.I.P. in case you missed it. She sure didn't, and she was shameless about using every last bit of the squirming discomfort she could provoke in some tenured Volvo liberal types, in order to extort whatever it was she was after at the time for her outfit and its cause.

But that was quite a long, long time ago, and I don't know how well she could count on massaging the reaction for the benefit of her 'good-cause' game plan, or even begin to get away with that same 'in-yo-face' name gimmick at most 'oh-so-sensitive' schools nowadays, even if she wanted to. I suspect she'd cook up something to more selectively raise academic blood pressure in a different way. But back then it worked for her beautifully, like a lead pipe used for a polite tap-tap reminder upside the head delivered with a sweet sexy smile. Until I guess it wasn't so useful after a few years, when some of the rabble rousing attention getting stuff had run its course. And then to the relief of some educrats who tend to be VERY concerned with appearances and the sound of things, she changed the name as her project became more service oriented. Changed it to the Handicapped Information Project. No joke.

Quote: Wizard

Those are terrible examples to make your point that the truth does not matter in terms of forum rules. Fatso and retard are obviously insulting and demeaning. You would be allowed to allude to someone else's handicap, whatever it were, if it were pertinent to the topic, especially if the person in question brought it up first. However, it would have to be done in a polite and respectful way.

Cripple I find to not be so bad. It would depend on context on that one.

In the disabled community as a whole, I'm pretty sure "cripple" is generally taken as a fairly offensive term. But when I googled it to review it, it sorta acts like the "n" word. If those who are disabled use it among one another as friends, it's not looked at as offensive. I actually do have a physical disability from birth, but fortunately, it's minor enough where I don't ever recall being called a "cripple" since I talk normally, and walk (mostly) normally. My mother still uses "handicapped", but I prefer "disabled". I'm not exactly sure why I prefer "disabled" other than the community typically prefers "disabled" over "handicapped".

Quote: tringlomane

In the disabled community as a whole, I'm pretty sure "cripple" is generally taken as a fairly offensive term. But when I googled it to review it, it sorta acts like the "n" word. If those who are disabled use it among one another as friends, it's not looked at as offensive. I actually do have a physical disability from birth, but fortunately, it's minor enough where I don't ever recall being called a "cripple" since I talk normally, and walk (mostly) normally. My mother still uses "handicapped", but I prefer "disabled". I'm not exactly sure why I prefer "disabled" other than the community typically prefers "disabled" over "handicapped".

Nope. Not disabled anymore. "Differently abled" I believe is the new politically correct term... (Except when it comes to parking spots, still "handicapped" I believe.)

As I believe I am the current record holder for most suspensions and still a member here, I'll throw my opinion in on suspensions. It really isn't that hard to understand, if you are shocked when you are suspended for a post, you really need to go back and look at it. I don't see bias against me as a conservative or anyone else. I've been in tiffs with Bill and AMS and both have been suspended when they crossed the line. And they are both pure bleeding heart liberals 24/7.

I have never made a post I was suspended for that I didn't expect or see it coming, and made a few I thought I possibly could have been.

If you don't want to ever be suspended, read what you write and think before posting it. If someone can or will be offended for it, delete it, reword it, or be willing to deal with the suspension. Basic stuff for an intelligent group of individuals.

Compare the level of posters here and the overall decency of the posts here to other forums out there and it is hard to argue with how it has been moderated. It is obviously working.

And no I don't think cripple is a word we are allowed to use anymore in the PC world.

Quote: Boz

-snip-I've been in tiffs with Bill and AMS and both have been suspended when they crossed the line. And they are both pure bleeding heart liberals 24/7.-snip-

-editing/bolding mine-

Poll question: Is this comment

A) A compliment.
B) An well crafted insult.
C) A statement of fact.
D) None of the above.

Keeneone's best guess: B
It is definitely not A. It could be C, but I am not sure AMS and bill would define themselves as BHLs.

Quote: Boz

As I believe I am the current record holder for most suspensions and still a member here, I'll throw my opinion in on suspensions. It really isn't that hard to understand, if you are shocked when you are suspended for a post, you really need to go back and look at it. I don't see bias against me as a conservative or anyone else. I've been in tiffs with Bill and AMS and both have been suspended when they crossed the line. And they are both pure bleeding heart liberals 24/7.

I have never made a post I was suspended for that I didn't expect or see it coming, and made a few I thought I possibly could have been.

If you don't want to ever be suspended, read what you write and think before posting it. If someone can or will be offended for it, delete it, reword it, or be willing to deal with the suspension. Basic stuff for an intelligent group of individuals.

Compare the level of posters here and the overall decency of the posts here to other forums out there and it is hard to argue with how it has been moderated. It is obviously working.

As a longtime, off and on viewer of this forum, I have a very different view of things here. I have never seen a forum where both management and members seem to enjoy suspensions and permanent banning as this site does. Members here, and some moderators spend more time bating each other than anything else. Just the mention of someone keeping track of their number of suspensions and then proudly posting it, as if it is some achievement is disturbing. It greatly diminishes the usefulness and value of this site, and that is why I don't participate here often.

As a matter of fact, Wizard recently posted an updated list of banned or permanently suspended members. In looking over that list, my first thought was many handles of somewhat known and successful players. You could make one hell of a site from those banned members alone. What a waste. And yes, knowing some of these members from various sites, some are problematic. A bit rough around the edges. Even difficult at times. Large egos. That is a common trait of gambling and advantage player type people, especially the successful one.

So while it's not surprising that some of these handles are on the list, the volume is alarming. The goal here seems to be to ban or drive away rather than include.

In defense of this forum, any forum where politics make up a large part of the discussions, is going to have members polarized and some so passionate that things get nasty. My question would be why would a site claiming to be on the topic of gambling, even allow such topics of discussion? That is always the downfall of these sites. If you want to engage in political discussions and debates, go to a political forum. Why would you go to a gambling forum for that?

Quote: MrBo

In defense of this forum, any forum where politics make up a large part of the discussions, is going to have members polarized and some so passionate that things get nasty. My question would be why would a site claiming to be on the topic of gambling, even allow such topics of discussion? That is always the downfall of these sites. If you want to engage in political discussions and debates, go to a political forum. Why would you go to a gambling forum for that?

IMHO mainly because while we all like gaming, we all have other interests. And after some amount of time, you just run out of gaming things to talk about.

I have to disagree, I assume we are talking about many of the same names. And most ohave gone elsewhere and continue the same behavior that got them banned here. Yes some were and are known gamblers and had good contributions but couldn’t follow the rules. The biggest loss to the forum was Mickey C, but I believe even he would admit he had multiple warnings and knew what would happen if he continued to post some of the stuff he did. Another quality poster who I won’t name added value but took it too personal and made mistakes. As for the Singers and other system players long gone, they couldn’t accept the math and the failings of their system so ended up insulting everyone. No loss there IMO.

Nothing’s perfect but I still think this place does a good job in its intentions. Compared to the garbage allowed on other forums, it’s the industry leader.

I am not familiar with Mickey C or The Singers. It sounds like a musical quartet or group, Mickey C and The Singers. Probably giving away my age. lol

We will have to disagree with whether Mike Shackleford and the management team here does a good job or not. I give them a solid 'c' grade. My biggest disappointment is the environment that was created or evolved here. Bannings and the loss of members are celebrated and in some cases they are quite a big loss. To use a sports analogy, Tom Brady is problematic. He doesn't travel with the team, instead traveling by private Jet. He has a big ego and is often described as a jerk. I haven't seen the Patriots ban him. lol

Furthermore, I have noticed several instances where the treatment of a particular member could be predicted weeks out, far before they were banned or suspended multiple times. You could see the bias against them from both other members and management before actions were taken.

Quote: MrBo

I am not familiar with Mickey C or The Singers. It sounds like a musical quartet or group, Mickey C and The Singers. Probably giving away my age. lol

We will have to disagree with whether Mike Shackleford and the management team here does a good job or not. I give them a solid 'c' grade. My biggest disappointment is the environment that was created or evolved here. Bannings and the loss of members are celebrated and in some cases they are quite a big loss. To use a sports analogy, Tom Brady is problematic. He doesn't travel with the team, instead traveling by private Jet. He has a big ego and is often described as a jerk. I haven't seen the Patriots ban him. lol

Furthermore, I have noticed several instances where the treatment of a particular member could be predicted weeks out, far before they were banned or suspended multiple times. You could see the bias against them from both other members and management before actions were taken.

Everyone who comes here starts with respect. They earn disrespect. (Thanks, Mosca!) And bannings.

There are exceptions. It is a strength and a weakness of this board that a few new members who turned out to be valuable and original (not sock puppets) were accused of same, and some otherwise potentially good members did not make it through the gauntlet. A strength in that some clever socks were able to be identified despite precautions, because of the collective intelligence and knowledge base of the membership.

But it also goes towards the fact- and math-based temperament and rules of this board, that it does not allow systems, fallacies, and false claims to stand unchallenged. It requires basic civility from the members, which really isn't that difficult.

And it hosts a fair amount of people who enjoy arguing, baiting, and/or riffing off of other comments. Another two-headed coin.

A suspension is mostly an ego-blow, not anything serious. You can't post for a few days; big deal. It's like a pitcher brushing back a batter crowding the plate. But continued offenses do lead to a nuke. Regrettable in several cases I can think of, a relief in others.

I'm sure this board would have benefited at times from a pre-post moderation option. MickeyC, for one, begged us to do this, and i was willing. But nothing would have helped him after he threatened (on another board) the Wizard's person. And he was not the first nor the last to be nuked for making threats/gross insults, in a couple other cases very valuable members, too.

In the end, the rules are what they are. We do attempt to explain and define specific offenses, and no question there are gray areas. But I appreciate and agree with Boz's statements above, that even with disagreement about the level of moderation, the board is the best available due at least in part because of the moderation.

Quote: MrBo

As a matter of fact, Wizard recently posted an updated list of banned or permanently suspended members. In looking over that list, my first thought was many handles of somewhat known and successful players.

Many? Can you make a list of those people(I get the feeling, no)?


Then we can take a look and see why they were suspended and who celebrated what.


From the time I have been on here, I can only think of one or two people that might fit that description.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I may not always agree with you, but IMO you have done a great job overall. I don't know how it is that you have survived this long with all the grief and BS you have had to deal with.

Words to live by. "One person's laughter is another person's disgust” Meaning something that makes one person laugh could make another person disgusted.

Quote: AxelWolf

Many? Can you make a list of those people(I get the feeling, no)?


Then we can take a look and see why they were suspended and who celebrated what.


From the time I have been on here, I can only think of one or two people that might fit that description.

Who are you thinking? I'm thinking Mickey and Monet.

Quote: SOOPOO

Nope. Not disabled anymore. "Differently abled" I believe is the new politically correct term... (Except when it comes to parking spots, still "handicapped" I believe.)

As an avid license plate collector, I can say that as far as license plates go, the ones with the wheelchair emblem are referred to as "handicapped" license plates. Then again, it is a bunch of crusty old men in the club, who are slow to change with the parlance of our times.

Quote: MrBo

In defense of this forum, any forum where politics make up a large part of the discussions, is going to have members polarized and some so passionate that things get nasty. My question would be why would a site claiming to be on the topic of gambling, even allow such topics of discussion? That is always the downfall of these sites. If you want to engage in political discussions and debates, go to a political forum. Why would you go to a gambling forum for that?

That is why I created the parallel forum Diversity Tommorow, where discussion of controversial issues, such as politics, race, and religion is encouraged. You're still allowed to post on almost whatever you want here, but if you want to keep a clean reputation here, but get a little dirty on non-gambling topics, then consider DT as an option. I want the record to show that I'm not trying to pull people away from WoV but my motive is to keep this forum as civil as possible.

Quote: MrBo

My biggest disappointment is the environment that was created or evolved here.

You must not be a gambler or you wouldn't
be surprised or disappointed at all. Gamblers
tend to have big ego's, and to be mostly
men on these forums. With that combibation
things can easily get out of hand. What evolved
here came from necessity, or this place would
have disappeared, like Gamblers Glen did.
It was out of control and died an ugly death.

You want to see an unmoderated gambling
forum, find one of the horse racing sites.
They scream and yell profanities at each
other all day, some there have over 100K
posts. This place is much more productive
and civilized, especially when I don't post
a lot.

Quote: EvenBob

Gamblers tend to have big ego's, and to be mostly men on these forums. With that combibation things can easily get out of hand.

I think genuinely self-confident men are usually easy to get along with. Gamblers can be confusing to interact with because they often portray a big ego to conceal an underlying lack of self-esteem.

Quote: EvenBob

This place is much more productive
and civilized, especially when I don't post
a lot.

That's funny.

I take it suspended/nuked members no longer show up on the "current active people" thing?

Quote: RS

I take it suspended/nuked members no longer show up on the "current active people" thing?

I also noticed that. I mentioned the banned\suspended posters no longer show up in the current members list, except I mentioned it in the Miscellaneous Thread. Here was a better idea, I'll give you your props for that. :)

Quote: RS

I take it suspended/nuked members no longer show up on the "current active people" thing?

Interesting change. I wonder why?


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

Interesting change. I wonder why?


ZCore13

Someone at the WOV headquarters felt nuked and suspended members deserved the privilege of scouring the board anonymously

Quote: michael99000

Someone at the WOV headquarters felt nuked and suspended members deserved the privilege of scouring the board anonymously

My guess is it is because of won who kept making names like fcknathan. Visit every day and there are 6 iterations of f@#% on the list.

Mods I think that was one of the names, wasnt trying to unmask a swear. Please mask it if it is over the line.

Quote: GWAE

My guess is it is because of won who kept making names like fcknathan. Visit every day and there are 6 iterations of f@#% on the list.

Mods I think that was one of the names, wasnt trying to unmask a swear. Please mask it if it is over the line.

You're fine.

Quote: GWAE

My guess is it is because of won who kept making names like fcknathan. Visit every day and there are 6 iterations of f@#% on the list.

Mods I think that was one of the names, wasnt trying to unmask a swear. Please mask it if it is over the line.

Good point. I didn't even think of that.


ZCore13

Quote: michael99000

Someone at the WOV headquarters felt nuked and suspended members deserved the privilege of scouring the board anonymously

They could always just logout.....

Quote: gamerfreak

They could always just logout.....

Or make a new name.

Quote: RS

I take it suspended/nuked members no longer show up on the "current active people" thing?

That is correct.

I wonder if people who resigned should be able to come back should they ever change their mind. For example, a woman on another website self deleted her profile, and like a day later came back with a new profile with her name being almost the same. She admitted she self deleted in a fit of rage and after she calmed down she regretted self deleting and wanted to be back. It's very possible people ask to resign on here in a fit of rage and soon regret it and want to be able to come back. I personally think if say someone said something like,"I saw Nathan in real life and she looked like a dirty, homeless woman," and in rage I resign and the next day, I realize that I really shouldn't care what one person thought I looked like, calming way down , I should be able to come back and post again.

You can. Just have a 30-day minimum cooling down period.

Quote: Nathan

I wonder if people who resigned should be able to come back should they ever change their mind. For example, a woman on another website self deleted her profile, and like a day later came back with a new profile with her name being almost the same. She admitted she self deleted in a fit of rage and after she calmed down she regretted self deleting and wanted to be back. It's very possible people ask to resign on here in a fit of rage and soon regret it and want to be able to come back. I personally think if say someone said something like,"I saw Nathan in real life and she looked like a dirty, homeless woman," and in rage I resign and the next day, I realize that I really shouldn't care what one person thought I looked like, calming way down , I should be able to come back and post again.

I am jealous. Your life must be so easy to spend so much time worrying about stupid crap like suspensions. I can send you some of my problems if you would like to have real world issues.

Quote: GWAE

I am jealous. Your life must be so easy to spend so much time worrying about stupid crap like suspensions. I can send you some of my problems if you would like to have real world issues.

I detect a note of bitterness in your reply. :/

Quote: GWAE

I am jealous. Your life must be so easy to spend so much time worrying about stupid crap like suspensions. I can send you some of my problems if you would like to have real world issues.

Send me your sins. I eat them for breakfast.

Quote: GWAE

I am jealous. Your life must be so easy to spend so much time worrying about stupid crap like suspensions. I can send you some of my problems if you would like to have real world issues.

HEAR HEAR!

Quote: GWAE

I am jealous. Your life must be so easy to spend so much time worrying about stupid crap like suspensions. I can send you some of my problems if you would like to have real world issues.

You have obviously never spent a day working the counter at Walgreens. You would change your tune very quickly. Miss one “Would you like to buy a Red Nose” and you are on the street.

both evenbob and zk are red.
what happened?

Quote: 100xOdds

both evenbob and zk are red.
what happened?

Mutual insults, per BBB.

See: "Shout out to everyone" thread .

Quote: 100xOdds

both evenbob and zk are red.
what happened?

ZK should have been nuked. Bob was suspended for an alleged personal insult, I would say I could find 1000 on this site worse that resulted in no suspension. Bob and I go back and forth quite a bit, sometimes on the forum and sometimes via pm, and I might find him extremely irritating (he is good at that!) but NEVER insulting. I STRONGLY disagree with his suspension. And if I was the Wizard, I would use the nuclear option on ZK. Sort of like Micky Crimm, he has many interesting ideas, but just cannot control himself enough to participate on an adult forum that has rules of decorum.