Going on tilt and losing / regaining heart (seeking a good read)

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Yep, you're the AP expert. What the hell do I know.

I know this guy, I know he wins at bac. I know he
never gives the details. I've read thousands
of his posts in the last 8 years, he knows what he's
talking about. I know people who know him and they
say he's legit.

I know all of that..

Quote: EvenBob

I know this guy, I know he wins at bac. I know he
never gives the details. I've read thousands
of his posts in the last 8 years, he knows what he's
talking about. I know people who know him and they
say he's legit.

I know all of that..

He should take the Wizard's $200k challenge! He'll be rich!

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After reading this whole thread I had to chime in- I am a firm believer that evey game can be beaten whether it's through dealer flashing cards or marketing promotion errors - I scan for this at every casino however anyone that plays with a claimed edge and then darts off to high limit cannot be for real because he could not have found an edge that quickly - it's like finding a dealer exposing a whole card and then jumping to a different table because you lost- i have seen it all and pulled a million moves in my younger days/ I find it so impossible that this is a legit post- unless he is on an right year postive variance which is somewhat plausible

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

He should take the Wizard's $200k challenge! He'll be rich!

That challenge no longer exists.

Quote: EvenBob

That challenge no longer exists.

Doesn't M. Bluejay run it now?

Quote: strictlyAP

I find it so impossible that this is a legit post

This is what I used to say when people said
that to me. 'Who cares, you aren't the one
paying me. The only people I need to prove
it to all work in the casino.'

im not foolish enough to think that I am smart enough to see every angle, but there are very few that I can't find or know about- however- I would almost say with 100 percent certainty that something doesn't smell right here-
nothing against you bob, I respect that you are the highest posting member on the site and respect most of your opinions but the poster seems to say he is exploiting the game and not the table- any slip ups or ap plays I have seen in baccarat have either been exploiting a dealer motion or card defects- neither of which this seems to be

Quote: strictlyAP

I would almost say with 100 percent certainty that something doesn't smell right here-

That's fine. Like I said, you aren't in the loop.
You aren't the casino.

obviously the casino is not in the loop either or they would have stopped whatever it was or backed him off

Quote: EvenBob

Every game in the casino can be beaten
to some degree. Like it or don't, it doesn't
matter to those doing it.

Just curious, how can Let It Ride be beaten? Or that giant money wheel ?

any casino game can be beaten, of course.

it's just that from the details of OP's post, it's possible to determine that OP is not playing with an advantage, and instead is involved in the very common business of self-delusion.

A delusion which Bob seems to have bought into.

Quote: sodawater

A delusion which Bob seems to have bought into.

I won't burden you with anything else you can't comprehend.
I'm charitable that way to the less gifted among us.

From now on I'm the one who has a secret money management technique that, even though I am anonymous here, I can only hint at why it works.

Hint #1

Hint#2



This is me. I feel OK showing it since I am wearing sunglasses.

Too much waffle and too many naysayers to respond to. This thread wasn't suppose to be about Baccarat, nor how I play, rather I was after any links about avoiding tilt or recovering from tilt. I assure you categorically I am legit, people that know me can vouch for that. I have assisted a friend become positive from a casino's (he now has more money than the casino's have of his). He had a similar attitude to some here, when introduced to a self professed professional Baccarat player, his response was "professional loser", after 10 sessions were he mirrored my bets, he made more inside two weeks than he would earn in two and half months, plus the added bonus of paying no tax.

I play this game for a living, so I know I have to be good, never made any claim to any edge, I already know I can not predict jack shit, then again I don't need or rely on doing so. Obviously the naysayers have no grasp what this game is about, which is total money management, something I excel in, there is no other possible way of winning playing this game of random outcomes, card flashing dealers is for the fairies, ever spotted an nine or eight for it's next card to be an ace or two respectively.

Oh yeah the HE kicked in today, as I walked away with approx 90% of my buyin, bit tough at times, yet got the job done. It might be just a case of currently being on the right side of some bell curve, variance, who knows and who cares, I'll enjoy the moment. As for "the odds" I present to the casino (not excluding the fact every hand remains 50-50), the casino managed to achieve that 5 times in 8 shoes, even twice in one shoe how dare they (even got hit with 6 losses in row ~ no drama)! Yet I still walked out a tad under 2k profit.

I get the impression the understanding here is some sort of reliance of winning a particular hand or hands, I can assure you all I don't operate like this and would be superfluous to do so. Without wishing to reveal much on this public site or otherwise, I will make reference to the word "templates", a concept alien to most that don't know me and view the game how it presents itself. I pay no attention to prior results and rarely glance if at all the score board.

Most here I assume are US based, however if any Aussi based players care to witness, watch, proof that's it's not hot air, I'm at Jupiters on the Gold Coast until Jan 13th, then at Star City Sydney for a few nights, after which I maybe in Adelaide or back in the UK. I don't hide and casinos down-under can't bar patrons no mater how long they consistently win for. However I will re-iterate the purpose of this thread was not to discuss Baccarat or how I approach the game. It appears the best way to handle tilt is to start winning again, would still appreciate any decent reads to avoid the 'same' occurring again.

gamblersanonymous.org

Quote: egalite

Obviously the naysayers have no grasp what this game is about, which is total money management

lol

I honest cannot believe this entire article I just reread that long post. Two posts up and really want to fly out to Australia but then who would be the fool

Quote: EvenBob

I know this guy, I know he wins at bac. I know he
never gives the details. I've read thousands
of his posts in the last 8 years, he knows what he's
talking about. I know people who know him and they
say he's legit.

I know all of that..

You, my friend, know NOTHING.

Wow, public internet forums sure can make for some strange bedfellows.....

Spike and Johno (this forum knows them as "EvenBob" and "Egalite") were going at each other for years at the Glen, and now, lo and behold, they appear right here before our very eyes as "long lost buddies", where one of them lies and the other one swears to it.....

.....only one word to describe it all: BALONEY!

Neither one of these fellas have ever won ten cents in the casino that they didn't repay a thousand-fold in return. That, my friends, you can believe; if only by reading their posted drivel.

Quote: gr8player

You, my friend, know NOTHING.

Wow, public internet forums sure can make for some strange bedfellows.....

Spike and Johno (this forum knows them as "EvenBob" and "Egalite") were going at each other for years at the Glen, and now, lo and behold, they appear right here before our very eyes as "long lost buddies", where one of them lies and the other one swears to it.....

.....only one word to describe it all: BALONEY!

Neither one of these fellas have ever won ten cents in the casino that they didn't repay a thousand-fold in return. That, my friends, you can believe; if only by reading their posted drivel.

Time to grab the popcorn

Quote: gr8player

You, my friend, know NOTHING.

Wow, public internet forums sure can make for some strange bedfellows.....

Spike and Johno (this forum knows them as "EvenBob" and "Egalite") were going at each other for years at the Glen, and now, lo and behold, they appear right here before our very eyes as "long lost buddies", where one of them lies and the other one swears to it.....

.....only one word to describe it all: BALONEY!

Neither one of these fellas have ever won ten cents in the casino that they didn't repay a thousand-fold in return. That, my friends, you can believe; if only by reading their posted drivel.

I figured that it was Almost as hard to believe when at first they said phil Ivey was just running good in ou to banco

Quote: egalite

After what was a very successful Baccarat jaunt on the Gold Coast, I was playing at a extremely slow table which was severely screwing my head, the combination of the card squeezing, being continually giving duff cards to open such as a "three side and no side" which turned out to be an 8 and an 3 or a 7 and 4 or BJ (wrong table), the totally inapt slow dealer was getting to me. My final lost bet of 500 was placed on the wrong side (shit happens). So I hot trot to the VIP area for a fast recoup and got well and truly nailed.

That was a crazy situation with a pit boss gawping from one side and another staff member grinning from the other, I spoke up and said "what the fuck is going, would you like a seat", so the pit boss told the staff member to find something to do, which invited comments from the dealer who was loving every minute of my demise and melt down, something that doesn't happen often but can happen.

Licking my wounds, I now find myself in the situation of having to do it all over again, Not entirely fazed by that, because I've done it many times in the past, grinding out 20k per month, yet I find it so mentally draining to be so far ahead and having to restart all over. My question to veteran board members, it there any decent literature on the web, book recommendations that deal with these rare and unfortunate aspects of gambling.

I've quoted this opening post for a reason.....

.....it has "compulsive gambler"-itis permeating the very core.

Sad, really.....

Quote: gr8player

I've quoted this opening post for a reason.....

.....it has "compulsive gambler"-itis permeating the very core.

Sad, really.....

To be honest, I actually believe him. This is the key:

Quote:

Not entirely fazed by that, because I've done it many times in the past, grinding out 20k per month, yet I find it so mentally draining to be so far ahead and having to restart all over.

That is exactly how negative progression betting systems work. You win a little most of the time, but when you lose you lose big, and have to "restart all over". Then you blame those losses on "tilt" rather than the expected variance, and since you don't know or trust math you don't bother to take a look at your records and realize that your total losses are right around your total bets multiplied by the house edge.

If it wasn't for nonsense like this the casinos wouldn't be in business. Casinos make the bulk of their money from two types of people:

1. People who think that they can predict what's coming next by looking at previous streaks, and
2. People who think that they can beat the game by varying their bets based on their previous outcomes

Of course their house edge is the same over everyone, but these poor people actually believe that they will win with these methods, so they refuse to quit. I'm not sure if it's compulsion/addiction or just being bad at math.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I'm not sure if it's compulsion/addiction or just being bad at math.

Thirty years of Baccarat at AC and CT.....trust me, it's "compulsion/addiction".

The majority of the players are compulsive gamblers, plain and simple. High rollers, low rollers....the size of their chip stack serves as no delineation, they are all compulsive.

These are the players that pay the casinos rent.

Not to be confused with those that play with an edge. A player's advantage. It is doable at Baccarat, and I speak from personal experience.

But that advantage begins and ends with being correct. Selecting which circle to put your money into, Banker or Player.

If you can't do that at a better-than 51.8% rate, stay away from the game, because the HE will eat you, and your BR, alive.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You must be really mad, teacher. How come you didn't "wish it all for him"????

Quote: Beethoven9th

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You must be really mad, teacher. How come you didn't "wish it all for him"????

GR8 lecturing people on playing bac, that's pretty
funny.

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Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Yeah, I foresee a train wreck coming.

My post about requiring math went ignored, so its inevitable end is upon its way. We should really have a hall of shame for people who say they are winning players and have a system, if they can't prove it with numbers

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Yeah, I foresee a train wreck coming.

My honest opinion is that egalite is a troll, nothing more nothing less. Someone with too much time on their hands coming around here rankling the feathers of the "mathboys."

Don't feed the trolls! Also, don't try to wise up a chump.

Quote: AcesAndEights

My honest opinion is that egalite is a troll, .

He has over 4000 posts on another gambling
forum and not one of them is troll-like. I
know people who know him, he does what he
says he does. I've been dealing with him since
2006 on forums and in private, he's about as
far from a troll as you can get. In fact, the idea
is ludicrous.

I know people like that, too, Bob.

They use negative betting progressions and think they have found a way to "grind' an income from the casino. Just like Axiom said, when the inevitable big loss happens, they are ready with excuses.

If you talk to this person, most of the time, you will hear about his small wins that he attributes to his system. Doesn't mean he is a winning player overall.

Quote: sodawater

I know people like that, too, Bob.
.

It's wonderful that you know my experience
with this person better than I do. You want
it to be your way so badly, you're canceling
out my experience so it fits into yours.

Whatever..

Quote: sodawater

If you talk to this person, most of the time, you will hear about his small wins that he attributes to his system.

No, this guy talks about *big* wins.

Quote: EvenBob

It's wonderful that you know my experience
with this person better than I do. You want
it to be your way so badly, you're canceling
out my experience so it fits into yours.

Whatever..

what is the alternative? to discard everything i know about probability, statistics, gambling, and logic? to somehow believe your "friend" has a method for beating baccarat that is flexible enough he can run to another table in another section of the casino?

that sounds like mysticism to me. do you believe your friend is some sort of wizard?

Quote: sodawater

to somehow believe your "friend" has a method for beating baccarat

It's not a method as much as a strategy. You have
to be extremely aggressive and have a lot of experience
with the game. You know where the next bet goes
without knowing how you know it. You know when
not to play. Ever play a lot of chess? You know what
the other guy is doing without really thinking about it.

Quote: EvenBob

It's not a method as much as a strategy. You have
to be extremely aggressive and have a lot of experience
with the game. You know where the next bet goes
without knowing how you know it. You know when
not to play. Ever play a lot of chess? You know what
the other guy is doing without really thinking about it.

chess is a game of perfect information. if they played baccarat with the next 6 cards faceup, you'd know where to bet.

everything you are saying here is nonsense. i am sorry, but i really hope you don't believe what you're saying.

everything in your post is the opposite of what this forum and the wizard of odds is about.

you can't beat baccarat or any game of chance by intuition. that's what the casinos hope you do. that's what built the casinos.

Quote: sodawater

you can't beat baccarat or any game of chance by intuition..

That's what you got out of what I wrote?

Never mind...

Quote: EvenBob

That's what you got out of what I wrote?

Never mind...

With all due respect that is how it reads Bob.

Knowing without knowing.... Intuition

Quote: Transcend

With all due respect that is how it reads Bob.

What am I doing, I have a thread on this
from 2011. I forget my own advice.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/6638-wising-up-chumps/#post94493

I'm just dumbfounded - so basically your friend is the smartest man on the planet. he knows what is coming out and when to sit out before it happens- basically you are saying that he can predict the cards and has seen patterns- there is absolutely zero logic here or anywhere in this thread from bob or his internet buddy- I'm about to start a thread voting on the logic here

Quote: EvenBob

What am I doing, I have a thread on this
from 2011. I forget my own advice.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/6638-wising-up-chumps/#post94493

Instead of getting defensive about it and calling us chumps and that you are doing something stupid by "wising" us up. Maybe you could read your previous post and tell me how that does not read as if you are talking about intuition. You compare it to chess a game that is fully laid out in front of you that is against another person that makes human error. Baccarat the cards are the cards the only thing a person has influence over is where they bet...there is no "reading" the opponent...there is nothing to read. You say knowing where to bet without knowing why or sitting out when you are supposed to. Does this not sound like intuition? What constitutes when one is "supposed" to sit out? The only thing I could muster would be a feeling like they are supposed to...intuition. Knowing where to bet when...how does one know this prior to the cards coming out? You have about a 50% chance of getting it right.

Quote: Transcend

Instead of getting defensive about it
.

Again, learning for me is a slow process:

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/6638-wising-up-chumps/#post94493

Quote: EvenBob

My feeling is, never wise up a chump. It
irritates them, they don't listen and don't care, it's a vast
waste of time.

So from what I gather from the post we are directed to... You are calling yourself a chump? You are irritated and not listening nor did you even touch on the rest of my post.

I asked a simple question, tell me how what your post describes can not be construed as intuition?

Yeah, whenever you cross swords with these mystical 'bet selection' experts who play by reading the random, intuition, practicing roulette or one of the hundred and twenty two ways they -aren't- playing a system, they get all defensive, start acting ever so arrogant and act like you have (to borrow a phrase) a lump of dog shit on your shoe.

Every result is 50/50, they say, but they can get 60/40.

Of course.

I, on the other hand, have a bridge to sell you. Except it's already been sold, so you can't have it. But I did have it.

Quote: thecesspit

start acting ever so arrogant and act like you have (to borrow a phrase) a lump of dog shit on your shoe.
.

From what kind of dog? The breed in important.

Quote: gr8player

You, my friend, know NOTHING.

Neither one of these fellas have ever won ten cents in the casino that they didn't repay a thousand-fold in return. That, my friends, you can believe; if only by reading their posted drivel.

Ha ha

Sure GreatPlayer (lol), speaking for yourself are we?

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

That is exactly how negative progression betting systems work. You win a little most of the time, but when you lose you lose big, and have to "restart all over". Then you blame those losses on "tilt" rather than the expected variance, and since you don't know or trust math you don't bother to take a look at your records and realize that your total losses are right around your total bets multiplied by the house edge.

If it wasn't for nonsense like this the casinos wouldn't be in business. Casinos make the bulk of their money from two types of people:

1. People who think that they can predict what's coming next by looking at previous streaks, and
2. People who think that they can beat the game by varying their bets based on their previous outcomes

Of course their house edge is the same over everyone, but these poor people actually believe that they will win with these methods, so they refuse to quit. I'm not sure if it's compulsion/addiction or just being bad at math.

You weren't there during my tilt, you don't know what exactly happened. When did I ever mention the word prediction? Didn't you read the part were I said I don't even bother to look at the score board, surely if some prediction system was being used you would have to look at prior results, no?

Quote: gr8player

Thirty years of Baccarat at AC and CT.....trust me, it's "compulsion/addiction".

Squandering 250k and continuing to play I would call "compulsion. Say hello to your family, next time your invited over.

Quote: sodawater

what is the alternative? to discard everything i know about probability, statistics, gambling, and logic?

Maths & statistics play a major part in how I play, in fact it is paramount, without it I would be like every other clueless chump you see at the tables and that have responded to this thread, trying to guess what might come next based on irrelevant retrospective results that have no bearing whatsoever on future hands. My maths does not include the HE, I will gladly accept .95 for every dollar wagered.

It is unfortunate this thread has taken the turn which it has, none of you have a clue what I am doing or how I play, for which now I am pleased. There are more than enough pointers if you bothered to take the time to read, before you decided "because I don't know, he can't possibly be right".

You can't possibly pull an initial $70k playing at a base level of $10 units inside 4 months (excluding the odd hit) by being a chump. If my daily goal target is a minimum of $1000, playing 7 days per week, then $20k monthly is very much achievable when you avoid tilting,
Tilting is not the same as losing, titling as I view it, is when your composure has left you. Talking about hits, I dropped $6.5k last week, my recoup strategy was to win $2k for the next 4 sessions (always wanting to make profit), the first session I won $5k (very pleased with that), the next session I turned my $2k buyin into $7k for a 250% profit, I took a picture of a $5k caddy (refer above). So it should come as no surprise the casino was "made up" I went on tilt on Sunday, they savored every minute of it, dropping $6k and winning 10k in the next two is bad for business. Hence my only reason for this thread, if my intent was to only broadcast my exploits, I would be shouting off all over the internet, I prefer to stay in the background nowadays.

Don't worry about any tilt - motivational links, the responses in this thread is all I need, maybe one day you might shed your blinkered view and open your mind and view the game from an entirely different prospective which does not include any form of prediction and is not based on prior hands in any shape or form, which as your maths head already know is foolish, this we are in agreement on, however I will re-iterate, Maths is paramount to my game.

Have a good day y'all, time to order room service, shower and back to the tables for some mo $$$$$$$$$$$, hopefully you will enjoy the rest of your day, maybe spend some time exploring the root of your negativity!!! The game doesn't necessarily hinge on the HE .

Quote: egalite

My maths does not include the HE, I will gladly accept .95 for every dollar wagered.

I really, really, really need to open a casino.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I really, really, really need to open a casino.

Not with me playing there. They aren't particularly thrilled when I rook up down-under, because they know I'm not another run of the mill table chump, I might lose the odd time, but I'll take a hell of a lot of money from you first, which you won't get back. Anyway dream on.

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