Wising Up Chumps
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September 17th, 2011 at 3:54:40 PM
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There's an old saying that goes "Never wise up a chump",
or "Never give a sucker an even break'. In the casino, is
it ever a good idea to wise people up about what they're
doing wrong. My feeling is, never wise up a chump. It
irritates them, they don't listen and don't care, it's a vast
waste of time.
Case in point. I have an older friend who has a bonafide
genius IQ. He loves to play the slots and refuses to learn
any other game. He's a chump. He sits at one machine
for hours and loses hundreds and hundreds of dollars, and
gets pissed off and furious, but won't play anything else.
I tell him and tell him how the slots work, how he doesn't
have a chance in hell of ever getting ahead, but he won't
listen. He knows I'm right, but he continues to play.
A chump is a chump, you can't wise them up, don't even
try. I used to try, decades ago, but its really not worth the
effort. I remember somebody asked the Wiz awhile back,
that with all his knowledge, if he ever gives free pointers
at the table when he see's somebody making mistakes. As
I recall he said not anymore, he's learned to just be quiet,
and let them play on in ignorance. Never wise up a chump,
it just makes them mad and it doesn't work anyway.
or "Never give a sucker an even break'. In the casino, is
it ever a good idea to wise people up about what they're
doing wrong. My feeling is, never wise up a chump. It
irritates them, they don't listen and don't care, it's a vast
waste of time.
Case in point. I have an older friend who has a bonafide
genius IQ. He loves to play the slots and refuses to learn
any other game. He's a chump. He sits at one machine
for hours and loses hundreds and hundreds of dollars, and
gets pissed off and furious, but won't play anything else.
I tell him and tell him how the slots work, how he doesn't
have a chance in hell of ever getting ahead, but he won't
listen. He knows I'm right, but he continues to play.
A chump is a chump, you can't wise them up, don't even
try. I used to try, decades ago, but its really not worth the
effort. I remember somebody asked the Wiz awhile back,
that with all his knowledge, if he ever gives free pointers
at the table when he see's somebody making mistakes. As
I recall he said not anymore, he's learned to just be quiet,
and let them play on in ignorance. Never wise up a chump,
it just makes them mad and it doesn't work anyway.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 17th, 2011 at 4:41:28 PM
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My good side lets me make one subtle effort at helping a player with strategy.... If they seem to want the advice I will continue... If they don't it is usually easy to tell pretty quickly and I am then even happier to watch them lose....
September 17th, 2011 at 4:55:27 PM
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>And literally no one would play carnival games, slots or side bets if they care about house edge.
They are there in a group. Its 3 guys and 3 girls. They are out to blow off some steam and drink lots of booze. They got a room at the IP 'cause they like the balcony. There are six people fighting over those two key cards. One of them is a CW and will soon be prancing around that balcony rail displaying her skills at drunkenly carrying an imaginary tray filled with imaginary drinks, then she will finally get off the balcony and have drunk-sex with one of the guys. Probably the one that is her current boyfriend, but maybe one of the others for old times sake or maybe with one of the other girls and maybe, just maybe, she will remember when she wakes up just who it was she was having sex with, but right now she does indeed think the carnival bets are exciting and she likes the group she is with and most of all she would like another free drink.
> But many people think those bets are thrilling, and it increases their enjoyment.
It is thrilling and it does increase her enjoyment. She will soon have to sober up and go back to work in a day or so, but right now she is indeed thrilled even if its only a carney game because she can possible WIN something.
I went up to the young lady and started talking about house edge... she said, "I don't have any edges. I'm a girl, I have curves. This is my boyfriend. He and I are soon going to go up to that one room and one mattress that the six of us are sharing, do you want to come along and make it a threesome?
So you see, there can be benefits to wising up a chump, but its rare and never what you would expect.
By the way, have you ever seen those photos of dumb slot drones holding those oversized cardboard checks? You want to explain to them how stupid they are?
They are there in a group. Its 3 guys and 3 girls. They are out to blow off some steam and drink lots of booze. They got a room at the IP 'cause they like the balcony. There are six people fighting over those two key cards. One of them is a CW and will soon be prancing around that balcony rail displaying her skills at drunkenly carrying an imaginary tray filled with imaginary drinks, then she will finally get off the balcony and have drunk-sex with one of the guys. Probably the one that is her current boyfriend, but maybe one of the others for old times sake or maybe with one of the other girls and maybe, just maybe, she will remember when she wakes up just who it was she was having sex with, but right now she does indeed think the carnival bets are exciting and she likes the group she is with and most of all she would like another free drink.
> But many people think those bets are thrilling, and it increases their enjoyment.
It is thrilling and it does increase her enjoyment. She will soon have to sober up and go back to work in a day or so, but right now she is indeed thrilled even if its only a carney game because she can possible WIN something.
I went up to the young lady and started talking about house edge... she said, "I don't have any edges. I'm a girl, I have curves. This is my boyfriend. He and I are soon going to go up to that one room and one mattress that the six of us are sharing, do you want to come along and make it a threesome?
So you see, there can be benefits to wising up a chump, but its rare and never what you would expect.
By the way, have you ever seen those photos of dumb slot drones holding those oversized cardboard checks? You want to explain to them how stupid they are?
September 17th, 2011 at 6:00:51 PM
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Quote: FleaStiffBy the way, have you ever seen those photos of dumb slot drones holding those oversized cardboard checks? You want to explain to them how stupid they are?
Slot players always bring that up. What they
don't know is how many thousands the chump
had to put in the slots over the years to win
that check, and that there is an almost 100%
likelihood that the winner will put those thousands
right back into the machines in the next few
months. I've known people who won cars, boats,
big jackpots, and they always always lost it all
back with a vengeance.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 17th, 2011 at 6:16:07 PM
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Quote: SOOPOOMy good side lets me make one subtle effort at helping a player with strategy.... If they seem to want the advice I will continue... If they don't it is usually easy to tell pretty quickly and I am then even happier to watch them lose....
Some players welcome help. I have one player who automatically has me set his Pai Gow hand to the house way, and so doesn't need to learn the house way, or even Pai Gow Poker.
Most days (when dealing Pai Gow) I get asked about how to set various hands:
- split 7's and 3's with an KQ? (best play: keep together, house way: split)
- Play straight or flush with AK/AQ top insetad of two pairs (best play yes. house way: always as two pairs)
etc., etc., etc.
But what is missed is that people have their particular tastes and affectations - and don't have to apologize for them
People are not stupid for liking to sometimes play Video Keno, and neither are they stupid for liking Hawaiian Pizza insead of Pepperoni Pizza - and you COULD quibble about the additional Cholersterol, calories, etc., - they way you would quibble about house edges on various games and plays.
"Don't You Know that a slice of Pepperoni Pizza has an additional 137.8452 grams of cholesterol - you MORON!" You don't know
ANYTHING if you don't eat HAWAIIAN style Pizza!!!
"Don't you know that staying on a 2 versus a dealer 12 adds an addition 0.07294% to he house edge - YOU MORON!"
"Why did you buy leather seats, or all things - for your Ford Fiesta??!!" - "It makes me happy."
it can get likes this.
If it makes you happier, it can be argued it is a good value in your life.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 17th, 2011 at 8:37:39 PM
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You can denigrate slot players as "chumps" all you want, go right ahead.
They, like your friend, could care less.
Ask yourself this: why are slots far and away the most popular form of casino gambling in America?
Are they all addicts?
NO!
Slots are easy, they provide constant stimulation to the player, and there is always the chance that the jackpot will show on the next bet.
I shoot craps, but I also like to take some shots at high limit slots: got some W-2G's for my efforts.
Look, most people avoid table games because of the intimidation factor, the fear of looking foolish, and the fear of being judged a "chump" by some pompous blowhard who feels only he knows the right way to gamble.
It isn't just about making money: that is why we work.
It is about spending it and having fun.
They, like your friend, could care less.
Ask yourself this: why are slots far and away the most popular form of casino gambling in America?
Are they all addicts?
NO!
Slots are easy, they provide constant stimulation to the player, and there is always the chance that the jackpot will show on the next bet.
I shoot craps, but I also like to take some shots at high limit slots: got some W-2G's for my efforts.
Look, most people avoid table games because of the intimidation factor, the fear of looking foolish, and the fear of being judged a "chump" by some pompous blowhard who feels only he knows the right way to gamble.
It isn't just about making money: that is why we work.
It is about spending it and having fun.
"What, me worry?"
September 17th, 2011 at 8:43:23 PM
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That's a good point. But then why do you see so many furious slot players? Like the woman in the high limit room, playing two $5 two-credit machines at once, tethered to it by two players' cards cords like some sort of umbilicus, screeching at you whenever you stop by to watch?Quote: MrVIt is about spending it and having fun.
Play when you have fun. There is no expectation of winning long-term. Sometimes you will win short term -- and that's fun. Usually you will lose.
Big jackpot? Not gonna happen for me on slots (maybe video poker). Still waiting for the next DeMauro-esque craps roll...
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
September 17th, 2011 at 8:48:52 PM
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It's morally wrong to allow a sucker to keep his money.
W. C. Fields
Start every day off with a smile and get it over with.
Dan Lubin
But who said this and no fair googling
When we have lost everything, including hope, life becomes a disgrace, and death a duty.
W. C. Fields
Start every day off with a smile and get it over with.
Dan Lubin
But who said this and no fair googling
When we have lost everything, including hope, life becomes a disgrace, and death a duty.
September 17th, 2011 at 8:57:17 PM
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Quote: MrVYou can denigrate slot players as "chumps" all you want, go right ahead.
They, like your friend, could care less.
It wouldn't bother me so much if he didn't bitch
about it all the way home. How the slots are fixed,
or set not to pay out. I'm sure he's unique and all other
slot losers smile all the way home and hum along
with the radio..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 17th, 2011 at 9:02:02 PM
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What do you do on the way home from a losing session Bob? I'm sure you don't play the slots so the question more specifically is, what do you do on the way home from a losing roulette session Bob?Quote: EvenBobIt wouldn't bother me so much if he didn't bitch
about it all the way home. How the slots are fixed,
or set not to pay out. I'm sure he's unique and all other
slot losers smile all the way home and hum along
with the radio..
Happiness is underrated
September 17th, 2011 at 9:03:02 PM
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No Bob, on the way home they talk about all the free money the casino will give them when they come back after next month's
mailer !
mailer !
September 17th, 2011 at 9:09:36 PM
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Quote: buzzpaffBut who said this and no fair googling
When we have lost everything, including hope, life becomes a disgrace, and death a duty.
I had no idea, so I googled in violation of the rules. The result: I found two people credited as the source of this quotation, one from the 20th century and one from the 17th century. Which one (or which era) did you originally have in mind?
September 17th, 2011 at 9:09:40 PM
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Quote: TheNightflywhat do you do on the way home from a losing roulette session Bob?
I'll let you know when it happens. I don't leave until
I reach my modest goal, and I always reach it. Just
lucky I guess. Something like that...
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 17th, 2011 at 9:11:33 PM
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We all hate to lose, no matter what game we choose to play.
Part of gambling's attraction for me is the breadth of emotion I can experience in a session, from elation to frustration and unhappiness.
Ride the roller coaster.
Again, if all life was about was accumulating money, we'd spend all of our time working.
I know that slots are a "Fool's Paradise", but I choose to play them.
Just as I know it is "foolish" for a blue collar worker living in a mobile home to spend twenty grand on a bass boat and equipment, just to catch some fish.
Hobbies are never bad, so long as nobody gets hurt, and you can comfortably afford it.
Part of gambling's attraction for me is the breadth of emotion I can experience in a session, from elation to frustration and unhappiness.
Ride the roller coaster.
Again, if all life was about was accumulating money, we'd spend all of our time working.
I know that slots are a "Fool's Paradise", but I choose to play them.
Just as I know it is "foolish" for a blue collar worker living in a mobile home to spend twenty grand on a bass boat and equipment, just to catch some fish.
Hobbies are never bad, so long as nobody gets hurt, and you can comfortably afford it.
"What, me worry?"
September 17th, 2011 at 9:19:25 PM
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Quote: MrVI know that slots are a "Fool's Paradise", but I choose to play them.
I can't really complain. One of the few times I played
slots was in 1995 after the new big Indian casino opened.
I couldn't get near the tables so I put $10 in a $5 slot.
On the second pull I won $2500 and have never put
another dime in a slot since. Now will I ever. Whats funny
is, I asked the slot attendant who paid me if it was a good
win, I really didn't know because I never play. He said
"Are you kidding?" I guess it was a good win, then.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 17th, 2011 at 11:16:22 PM
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Yeah, you always evade the effects of that 5.26 percent house edge. Just luck.Quote: EvenBobJust lucky I guess. Something like that...
September 17th, 2011 at 11:25:45 PM
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Quote: MrVJust as I know it is "foolish" for a blue collar worker living in a mobile home to spend twenty grand on a bass boat and equipment, just to catch some fish.
I see you've met my friends and family =)
On topic, only when they're receptive or looking for advice, and that goes for all things life, not just casino games. Guy in Vegas asked me straight up what to do on a 12 v dealer 6, so I told him. Same table some hours later an Asian feller is on my ass about Lucky Lucky side bets. No need to delve into percentages and probabilities with that guy.
If your friend don't wanna hear it, don't waste time tellin' it.
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
September 18th, 2011 at 12:09:19 AM
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Quote: PaigowdanPeople are not stupid for liking to sometimes play Video Keno, and neither are they stupid for liking Hawaiian Pizza insead of Pepperoni Pizza
I wish you hadn't used that particular example, because I agree with you. Yet it remains a fact that Hawaiian pizza is the stupidest thing that's ever happened. Ever.
Old enough to repaint. Young enough to sell.
September 18th, 2011 at 12:31:12 AM
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Quote: FleaStiffYeah, you always evade the effects of that 5.26 percent house edge. Just luck.
Its simple, just leave before the HE knows you're there.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 18th, 2011 at 1:01:25 AM
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Quote: FleaStiffBy the way, have you ever seen those photos of dumb slot drones holding those oversized cardboard checks? You want to explain to them how stupid they are?
I think it depends on how much the amount is on a carboard check. Although not slots, every powerball lottery winner may be a chump, but we know it's unlikely any of them got close to spending even a million before they won, and if you call them a chump, they'd likely laugh in your face, then get in their new Bentley and drive over your foot.
And they sure aren't going to sweat you calling them a chump one minute longer than it takes to forget you.
But you know, they're still chumps, technically.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
September 18th, 2011 at 1:31:04 AM
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Quote: rxwineand if you call them a chump, they'd likely laugh in your face
If you agree to jump off the barn roof and
you don't break your legs, that
doesn't make you any less of a chump.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 18th, 2011 at 2:20:16 AM
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People will spend money foolishly because they dream about winning and it's fun for them. If they spend more than they can afford then I suppose a case could be made that it's something they should stop doing but for the occasional $5 or $10 now and then it's no worse than the amount some people spend on a coffee and sandwich. The same can be said for the odd $20 that someone might slide into a slot. Perhaps they are chumps and perhaps they should drop the money in a UNICEF box instead but if they want to gamble and think they have a chance to win it's their business. Get this, I once heard of a guy who was so messed up he actually told people that he never lost playing roulette because he would "leave before the HE knew he was there". Now there's a chump if there ever was one.Quote: EvenBobIf you agree to jump off the barn roof and
you don't break your legs, that
doesn't make you any less of a chump.
Happiness is underrated
September 18th, 2011 at 2:38:43 AM
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Quote: TheNightflytold people that he never lost playing roulette because he would "leave before the HE knew he was there".
Here's how it works. You hang back and wait
till the HE takes a break, swoop in and play for
awhile, and leave before the HE gets back.
Takes lots of practice, though, most people
aren't interested in learning it..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 18th, 2011 at 8:18:15 AM
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Lots of folks are credited with quotes over the years. I prefer the 20th century. The man who when asked if playing poker was gambling, replied in the manner any cheat would, " Not how i play it " W C FIELDS
September 18th, 2011 at 5:37:25 PM
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Bill had a way of getting around censors. Godfrey Daniel ! I suspect there is an Indonesian in the fuel supply. LOL
September 18th, 2011 at 5:46:44 PM
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They say never give a sucker an even break was pretty
much how Fields did business. He was apparently a savvy
and ruthless business man
much how Fields did business. He was apparently a savvy
and ruthless business man
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 18th, 2011 at 6:50:52 PM
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My favorite was the line where WC was on a riverboat propping a girl telling her how straight he was "I don't smoke, I don't drink and I don't gamble" Later on she passes by him at a card table and he has hole cards on him. The girl says "Mr so and so I thought you said you didn't gamble" He says "I don't" She says "but isn't playing poker gambling?" He says "Not the way I play it."
Gambling is a metaphor for life. Hang around long enough and it's all gone.
September 18th, 2011 at 6:53:31 PM
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A rich man is nothing but a poor man with money.
W. C. Fields
Not always true, but how many rich bastards have you known in your lifetime that were born on 3rd base and actually believe
they hit a triple ??
W. C. Fields
Not always true, but how many rich bastards have you known in your lifetime that were born on 3rd base and actually believe
they hit a triple ??
September 19th, 2011 at 8:54:51 AM
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As for the earlier "When we have lost everything..." quote, it is indeed attributed to Fields many places on the internet. Many other places also attribute it to Voltaire (pen name of François-Marie Arouet), who was the 17th century source I suggested a page back. However, I have not (yet) been able to find reference to an actual source for such a Voltaire quote. Does anyone know of a good (internet-based?) reference for quotes which actually gives the sources? I might find occasional use for that kind of reference. This particular quote is not included in my copy of Bartlett's.
September 19th, 2011 at 9:01:15 AM
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Research is not my long suit. Why I sometimes even misspell Gogole !
September 19th, 2011 at 9:03:37 AM
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Purely a guess, but sounds like something Winston Churchill might have said.
late , and wrong, entry :-)
late , and wrong, entry :-)
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
September 19th, 2011 at 9:10:12 AM
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Quote: RaleighCrapsPurely a guess, but sounds like something Winston Churchill might have said.
Close, very close. Had the person who made that quote taken Winston Churchill's place in life, history may have been different.
It was W C FIELDS LOL
September 19th, 2011 at 12:02:17 PM
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Quote: DocAs for the earlier "When we have lost everything..." quote, it is indeed attributed to Fields many places on the internet. Many other places also attribute it to Voltaire (pen name of François-Marie Arouet), who was the 17th century source I suggested a page back. However, I have not (yet) been able to find reference to an actual source for such a Voltaire quote. Does anyone know of a good (internet-based?) reference for quotes which actually gives the sources? I might find occasional use for that kind of reference. This particular quote is not included in my copy of Bartlett's.
Could be a straight-up accidental or deliberate misattribution, or it could be that Fields was quoting Voltaire and just expected people to recognize the quote. Happens all the time with Bible verses, with far more passages having been immediately recognizable as Biblical quotations centuries ago than today. So, for example, I've seen the Book of Proverbs proverb about good men eating to live while wicked men live to eat variously attributed to Moliere and Ben Franklin, both of whom presumably simply expected their audiences to recognize the quote as being Biblical without their needing to point out that it was a quote from from the Bible. Sometimes happens with literary scholarship, too, when a commentator doesn't recognize an allusion to another work and assumes it to have been an invention of the writer. Likewise album liner notes, when the writer isn't familiar with a work the artist is referencing.
September 19th, 2011 at 1:16:40 PM
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Heather, I suspect that Fields quoted Voltaire, whether he knew the original source or not, and he probably never claimed it was an original idea. I would prefer that reference sources, even on the internet, which attribute historical quotes would cite the originator rather than the copycat. Or maybe say "Fields, quoting Voltaire" if that is more applicable.
As for bible quotations, I saw an interesting quiz about 45 years ago in which there was a series of familiar lines given. The quiz asked that the source of each line be identified: either Shakespeare or the King James translation of the bible. For most folks, it was a difficult quiz.
I have found that I sometimes have gone quite overboard in trying to quote something accurately and give the proper credit. I had a web page once on which I wanted to post a poem that I vaguely remembered from many years ago. I searched and found the poem on a number of other sites. Unfortunately, I found a dozen or more versions, which I (correctly) assumed were incorrect quotations. Took me quite a while and the help of a librarian to find the correct version. When I posted the poem, I also posted a rambling story about that impediment to being accurate and how I had once tried to cite a proper reference for an engineering empirical equation. The equation originated in a German technical journal in 1943, and it took me a year to come up with a copy of the proper article. That nerdiness on my part relates to my earlier request here for a lead on a reference that gives the actual source of quotations.
As for bible quotations, I saw an interesting quiz about 45 years ago in which there was a series of familiar lines given. The quiz asked that the source of each line be identified: either Shakespeare or the King James translation of the bible. For most folks, it was a difficult quiz.
I have found that I sometimes have gone quite overboard in trying to quote something accurately and give the proper credit. I had a web page once on which I wanted to post a poem that I vaguely remembered from many years ago. I searched and found the poem on a number of other sites. Unfortunately, I found a dozen or more versions, which I (correctly) assumed were incorrect quotations. Took me quite a while and the help of a librarian to find the correct version. When I posted the poem, I also posted a rambling story about that impediment to being accurate and how I had once tried to cite a proper reference for an engineering empirical equation. The equation originated in a German technical journal in 1943, and it took me a year to come up with a copy of the proper article. That nerdiness on my part relates to my earlier request here for a lead on a reference that gives the actual source of quotations.
September 19th, 2011 at 2:26:05 PM
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It's also not out of the range of possibility that two different people had very similar thoughts, less discernible in short quotes where there is less variation possible.
EXACT wording probably is unlikely, where every word is the same.
EXACT wording probably is unlikely, where every word is the same.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
September 19th, 2011 at 2:32:42 PM
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Quote: DocDoes anyone know of a good (internet-based?) reference for quotes which actually gives the sources?
bartleby.com includes bartlett's and other sources among its many basic reference works.
September 27th, 2011 at 1:03:42 PM
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I play Let it Ride at times, only the 3 base bets and never the 3 card or the bonus bet. I cannot tell you how many times the other players and the dealer let me know when I would have won with a small pair. Funny how they never say anything the 9 out of 10 times it DIDNT hit. You have to try and close your eyes, but it is not worth it to say anything to them losing their $1 time and time again on the bonus bet.
September 27th, 2011 at 1:49:21 PM
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Chumps, as defined by most gamblers, is simply the category of people who play something you don't. The same can actually be said for sports, hobbies, movie genres, children, career choices, and just about any other aspect in life.
September 27th, 2011 at 1:51:01 PM
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No Chumps are defined as those people that after taking their money, you can say " It's been a business doing pleasure with you "
September 27th, 2011 at 1:53:35 PM
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Quote: buzzpaffNo Chumps are defined as those people that after taking their money, you can say " It's been a business doing pleasure with you "
That's what she said. (prostitute)
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
September 27th, 2011 at 1:59:46 PM
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Quote: gogChumps, as defined by most gamblers, is simply the category of people who play something you don't. The same can actually be said for sports, hobbies, movie genres, children, career choices, and just about any other aspect in life.
NO I take their money in the game they prefer. That's why they are called chumps
May 29th, 2018 at 5:35:42 PM
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This is another gambling thread I started
that I liked. It's even more true now, never
wise up anybody in the casino. It's just
not worth the hassle.
that I liked. It's even more true now, never
wise up anybody in the casino. It's just
not worth the hassle.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
