Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
  • Threads: 133
  • Posts: 15308
October 5th, 2021 at 8:06:29 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter


Very true. I haven't seen strip mall slot parlors in Pennsylvania the way I have elsewhere, like Illinois.

PA Skill and OH Skill barely count as slots; they seem to be in the same category as old Cherry Masters that were installed in bars, albeit with a generally improved redemption mechanism.

Thank you for the clarification.

  • link to original post



    You're welcome! The states that you will find with similar places to West Virginia are Illinois, as you mentioned. Also included are states such as Montana (though some of those are bars and some are basically mini-casinos---and sometimes have way more machines), Oregon, Nevada (with places like Dotty's and video poker bars) and South Dakota (which some people wouldn't expect as they might think all gambling is in Deadwood).

    There are some other states, such as Oklahoma, in which Native American Tribes may have Tribal Casinos by compact, but many of these are small enough just to basically be slot parlors and, similar to the Commercial VLT's in Pennsylvania, are often located in truck stops.

    Beyond those, there are a few other states that have VLT's, but those are often in states in which they must be connected to a racetrack (such as Ohio---and Kansas could legally do the same thing, but I don't know that any are actually operating in Kansas. States such as New York also have their VLT's regulated through the lottery in their actual casinos, I believe.

    The Ohio Skill games, if they pay out in cash, are definitely illegal in most instances. In fact, four locations with these purported, "Skill," machines were recently raided. There was also a major statewide crackdown right around the time that the casinos and racinos started to open---imagine that! It's usually a cycle of a few operators, often bars, putting a single machine or two in the backroom that doesn't get much attention, but then the crackdowns happen when people get brazen about it and start opening locations that basically exist only to offer the machines. Unlike in PA, some locations in these Ohio with the so-called, "Skill Games," occasionally have no features whatsoever that would distinguish them from a slot machine to the casual player. The only unique feature about them is that they have a particular cycle of results that just repeats forever.

    The Pennsylvania Skill Games are all over the place. Many have the, "Next Puzzle," and, "Prize Viewer," features, but some don't. Any that I have seen require some sort of player input that can partially impact the result of the spin. They are not as decidedly illegal as the ones in Ohio, but they certainly are not licensed, regulated and cannot be considered legal. They exist in a gray area. As mentioned in the article, a DA for one of the counties, in conjunction with the state police, had several machines removed from several locations. The Lottery Department considers them illegal, of course.

    The Cherry Master machines (which will usually just be in bars/lounges and will only be one or two machines) are flatly illegal, but mostly ignored. Many bars have signage saying they are, "For amusement only," which is often true unless you are a regular or person known to them. Some bars always treat them as amusement only, so some of them don't even have a slot capable of printing tickets. Some bars will always pay out on them, but again, that's mostly ignored as long as they are not openly advertising them.

    Believe it or not, the PA liquor board is more ticked off about the bars with Skill Games than they are the Cherry Masters---which they themselves mostly disregard. I think that's maybe because the bars cannot even make the claim that the Skill Games are amusement only.

    As with Ohio, I would think those games would mostly be ignored if there weren't locations opening ONLY for the purpose of having those games and if they didn't make a big production out of advertising them. Cops will usually turn a blind eye to things like that unless you don't really give them a choice but to address it.
    https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
    Mission146
    Mission146
    Joined: May 15, 2012
    • Threads: 133
    • Posts: 15308
    October 5th, 2021 at 8:09:27 AM permalink
    In this article:

    https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/casino-game-review-four-kings/

    I actually review a new game for a change! This one is the Four Kings Casino and Slots, which is available on Steam, Nintendo Switch, XBox Whatever The Newest One Is and Playstation 4.

    I played the Nintendo Switch version, so feel free to click and get my opinion on the game as well as to leave a comment either here or the article---especially if you have also tried it!
    https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
    DRich
    DRich
    Joined: Jul 6, 2012
    • Threads: 80
    • Posts: 8609
    Thanks for this post from:
    Mission146
    October 5th, 2021 at 8:20:50 AM permalink
    Quote: Mission146

    Quote: Dieter


    Very true. I haven't seen strip mall slot parlors in Pennsylvania the way I have elsewhere, like Illinois.

    PA Skill and OH Skill barely count as slots; they seem to be in the same category as old Cherry Masters that were installed in bars, albeit with a generally improved redemption mechanism.

    Thank you for the clarification.

  • link to original post



    You're welcome! The states that you will find with similar places to West Virginia are Illinois, as you mentioned. Also included are states such as Montana (though some of those are bars and some are basically mini-casinos---and sometimes have way more machines), Oregon, Nevada (with places like Dotty's and video poker bars) and South Dakota (which some people wouldn't expect as they might think all gambling is in Deadwood).

    There are some other states, such as Oklahoma, in which Native American Tribes may have Tribal Casinos by compact, but many of these are small enough just to basically be slot parlors and, similar to the Commercial VLT's in Pennsylvania, are often located in truck stops.

    Beyond those, there are a few other states that have VLT's, but those are often in states in which they must be connected to a racetrack (such as Ohio---and Kansas could legally do the same thing, but I don't know that any are actually operating in Kansas. States such as New York also have their VLT's regulated through the lottery in their actual casinos, I believe.

    The Ohio Skill games, if they pay out in cash, are definitely illegal in most instances. In fact, four locations with these purported, "Skill," machines were recently raided. There was also a major statewide crackdown right around the time that the casinos and racinos started to open---imagine that! It's usually a cycle of a few operators, often bars, putting a single machine or two in the backroom that doesn't get much attention, but then the crackdowns happen when people get brazen about it and start opening locations that basically exist only to offer the machines. Unlike in PA, some locations in these Ohio with the so-called, "Skill Games," occasionally have no features whatsoever that would distinguish them from a slot machine to the casual player. The only unique feature about them is that they have a particular cycle of results that just repeats forever.

    The Pennsylvania Skill Games are all over the place. Many have the, "Next Puzzle," and, "Prize Viewer," features, but some don't. Any that I have seen require some sort of player input that can partially impact the result of the spin. They are not as decidedly illegal as the ones in Ohio, but they certainly are not licensed, regulated and cannot be considered legal. They exist in a gray area. As mentioned in the article, a DA for one of the counties, in conjunction with the state police, had several machines removed from several locations. The Lottery Department considers them illegal, of course.

    The Cherry Master machines (which will usually just be in bars/lounges and will only be one or two machines) are flatly illegal, but mostly ignored. Many bars have signage saying they are, "For amusement only," which is often true unless you are a regular or person known to them. Some bars always treat them as amusement only, so some of them don't even have a slot capable of printing tickets. Some bars will always pay out on them, but again, that's mostly ignored as long as they are not openly advertising them.

    Believe it or not, the PA liquor board is more ticked off about the bars with Skill Games than they are the Cherry Masters---which they themselves mostly disregard. I think that's maybe because the bars cannot even make the claim that the Skill Games are amusement only.

    As with Ohio, I would think those games would mostly be ignored if there weren't locations opening ONLY for the purpose of having those games and if they didn't make a big production out of advertising them. Cops will usually turn a blind eye to things like that unless you don't really give them a choice but to address it.
  • link to original post



    I had a friend that owned a bar in Pittsburgh and he was making $1000 a week off of his two machines in the 1980's. He would get shut down, pay the fine, and have them back the next week.
    Order from chaos
    Mission146
    Mission146
    Joined: May 15, 2012
    • Threads: 133
    • Posts: 15308
    October 5th, 2021 at 8:23:49 AM permalink
    Quote: DRich



    I had a friend that owned a bar in Pittsburgh and he was making $1000 a week off of his two machines in the 1980's. He would get shut down, pay the fine, and have them back the next week.

  • link to original post



    That's the way to do it! Why would he get shut down---inspections or someone who lost reporting him from time to time?
    https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
    DRich
    DRich
    Joined: Jul 6, 2012
    • Threads: 80
    • Posts: 8609
    October 5th, 2021 at 10:52:36 AM permalink
    Quote: Mission146

    Quote: DRich



    I had a friend that owned a bar in Pittsburgh and he was making $1000 a week off of his two machines in the 1980's. He would get shut down, pay the fine, and have them back the next week.

  • link to original post



    That's the way to do it! Why would he get shut down---inspections or someone who lost reporting him from time to time?
  • link to original post



    I would guess a patron reporting him. He said those two machines would make him more profit than the bar did for the year.
    Order from chaos
    Mission146
    Mission146
    Joined: May 15, 2012
    • Threads: 133
    • Posts: 15308
    November 10th, 2021 at 7:31:25 AM permalink
    Here's a review of a 1999 book on smart gambling, by Andy Glazer, called, "Casino Gambling the Smart Way," so feel free to check this out to see how it holds up today and whether or not you'd want to put it on your reading list.

    The middle section of the review is a chapter-by-chapter breakdown, so feel free to just read the introduction and then skip down to, "Overall Thoughts," and the Conclusion. After that, you can decide whether or not you want to read the chapter-by-chapter breakdown for more specific critiques.

    https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/casino-gambling-the-smart-way-review/
    https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
    AZDuffman
    AZDuffman
    Joined: Nov 2, 2009
    • Threads: 229
    • Posts: 12733
    November 10th, 2021 at 3:48:24 PM permalink
    Quote: Mission146

    Quote: Dieter

    Quote: Mission146

    Another News and Notes now that some stuff is finally going on again:

    https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/news-and-notes-10-4-2021/

  • link to original post



    I think we both know there is convenience gambling in Pennsylvania. Are those locations under a different reporting category?
  • link to original post



    The Skill Games or the truck stops?

    There are a few truck stops that are licensed to have VLT's, but they have to meet certain criteria and are very small in total count. Among other things, they have to have certain amenities and a certain percentage of their revenues have to be fuel sales.

    When I talk about convenience gambling in WV, I mean that you will literally have a bunch of bars or VLT parlors, all with 5-7 machines apiece, on the same street. If you see one with anywhere from 8-10, then it is considered a private club and they are permitted to have as many as ten.
    link to original post



    Is that when they call it a "cafe?"
    All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
    Mission146
    Mission146
    Joined: May 15, 2012
    • Threads: 133
    • Posts: 15308
    November 10th, 2021 at 4:25:26 PM permalink
    Some of them are called cafes. The coffee is often Folgers and there are no specialty coffee drinks. They maybe have decaf if you ask politely.
    https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
    AZDuffman
    AZDuffman
    Joined: Nov 2, 2009
    • Threads: 229
    • Posts: 12733
    November 11th, 2021 at 4:04:55 AM permalink
    Quote: Mission146

    Some of them are called cafes. The coffee is often Folgers and there are no specialty coffee drinks. They maybe have decaf if you ask politely.
    link to original post



    Someone once told me if it says "cafe" in WV it meant they have machines. On the road to Mountaineer every other places seems to say "cafe" on the sign.
    All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
    Mission146
    Mission146
    Joined: May 15, 2012
    • Threads: 133
    • Posts: 15308
    November 11th, 2021 at 8:42:14 AM permalink
    Quote: AZDuffman



    Someone once told me if it says "cafe" in WV it meant they have machines. On the road to Mountaineer every other places seems to say "cafe" on the sign.
    link to original post



    It almost always does mean that. I was just making a joke to the effect that such is not what cafe usually means.
    https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219

    • Jump to: