RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
Joined: Feb 20, 2010
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August 28th, 2012 at 10:45:52 AM permalink
Quote: CrapsForever

Excellent Point by kewlj,

I am not an Advantage Player. I "rathole" chips to stop me from betting too much on a Craps table. Example; I buy in for $500 and "rathole" all my winnings until I lose about half of my buy-in or until I make a 50% profit; whichever comes first. On a 2 day trip to the Midwest a couple of months ago; I broke EVEN after playing Craps for about 16 hours in 2 days. I tried to get my hotel room comped but was told that they could not comp me because I "won" $2,500. The only valid explanation that I can come up with is they must have seen me putting chips in my pockets and assumed I was winning a lot which was clearly not the case.



This is certainly a casino by casino case. On my second trip to Beau Rivage I had a nice $4,500 win in about an hour on the craps table. The host agreed to pick up our dinner in the BR Prime steakhouse ($360 worth). When it came time to leave, I stopped by to see the host to see about taking care of the rest of my meal charges. He looks at the screen and says, "Nice trip. I see you're up $8,500, but yes, we'll cover all of the charges." I was only up about $1,500. I never rat hole, and always color up, so how they manage to get that far off is beyond me, and I told the host exactly that. The point was, he had already agreed to pick up the charges, even when he thought I was plus $8,500. So not all casinos apparently are run the same.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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August 28th, 2012 at 10:54:10 AM permalink
Rat-holing chips is not a red flag per se, the floor just assumes that someone is somewhat anal. Black action-plus players doing it does get attention, though.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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August 28th, 2012 at 11:04:42 AM permalink
Rat-holing....

If you're doing it to get the casino to think you've lost when you won, do so carefully as others have said.

If you're doing it to set aside winnings that you don't want to risk, there are two simple solutions:

Do a partial color-up and don't check-change them back later on.

Or, rather than pocket chips, put a rubber band around some. Add to them if things go well, but never take any out of the rubber band. If the floorman asks what the rubber band is for, be honest.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁 Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition. 🤗
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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August 28th, 2012 at 11:05:13 AM permalink
"Slipping" chips into your pocket might be more noticed than putting them there in an open manner.

I "sort" my chips in the rail and I "bank" to my companion when she is there and to my shirt pocket when she is not.

Neither is done after looking around to see if the dealers are looking.
SONBP2
SONBP2
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
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August 28th, 2012 at 11:10:12 AM permalink
Generally, my wife and I play exactly the same and we always play together. We play Ultimate Texas Holdem. Buy-in $110 each. We bet $5 on the ante and blind, $5 on the trips bet, and $1 on the progressive. The house edge on the trips bet is 2%, I believe the game has about a 2% house edge, and the progressive side bet is another 20% house edge (or more). We either play till we run out of money or for approximately an hour. We do play at least 3x a week, but often we play more than that.

In a previous post I commented that when we asked our host, six months after we had reached the President level, about any available comps she informed us that based on our level of play she would be glad to comp us the buffet. So based on these two experiences, I am done with Stations.
CrapsForever
CrapsForever
Joined: Mar 6, 2012
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August 28th, 2012 at 11:15:57 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Rat-holing....

If you're doing it to get the casino to think you've lost when you won, do so carefully as others have said.

If you're doing it to set aside winnings that you don't want to risk, there are two simple solutions: Do a partial color-up and don't check-change them back later on. Or, rather than pocket chips, put a rubber band around some. Add to them if things go well, but never take any out of the rubber band. If the floorman asks what the rubber band is for, be honest.



After over a decade of playing in Casinos; I have tried every trick in the book to set aside winnings. The only things that work for me consistently are;

A) Giving Chips to my wife (She HATES gambling so she'll only come to the Casino with me if we are on vacation; then she will come for only 30 minutes)
B) Cashing my profits in Chips immediately for Cash at the Cage after every decent win.
C) Rat-Holing Chips

I have tried the partial color-up in several casinos but they almost always ask that I do a full-color up or none at all especially when the table is "HOT".
Craps is the most "Jekyll and Hyde" casino game ever invented!
vendman1
vendman1
Joined: Mar 12, 2012
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August 28th, 2012 at 11:41:30 AM permalink
I've tried rat-holing chips too...most of the time with no problems. I do this for my own money management issues rather than to try and fool the casino. But there have been a few times when my "estimated" win/loss at the casino was way off. Both up and down. Once had a floorman tell me congrats you're up $4800 when really I was up around 2K. So maybe that was caused by rat-holing, but sometimes I think they are just guessing at best. I've also had the same experience as CrapsForever in that a lot of times they don't like to do partial color-ups as it slows down the game. Penn National gaming is especially firm about this in my experience, the casinos in AC less so.
guido111
guido111
Joined: Sep 16, 2010
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August 28th, 2012 at 1:14:18 PM permalink
Quote: SONBP2

I was at Santa Fe last night...
Maybe I am wrong, but I just don't believe this is how comps are calculated, it may be factor, but not the deciding factor for regular players like us.

Any opinions?

Is not the Sante Fe an Indian casino in NM?
If it is, you are in a different nation and they can do as they please.

IMO, you should ask questions first about all their policies, then complain when they change them, since that is really all one can do is to complain.
That way you can just go to another casino as you wave bye-bye.
RonC
RonC
Joined: Jan 18, 2010
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August 28th, 2012 at 1:53:06 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

However, if you are caught doing any AP malfeasance, the comps may are wiped.



I love how you use only the strongest terms to describe those who use information they gather at the table to possibly gain an ever-so-slight advantage over the house. I know you believe no one should ever have such a thing but it isn't illegal. The house does not have to allow it, either, because they have the right (in most locales) to decide who can and can't play any particular game.

Trying to raise it to the level of a crime (and we're talking about non-criminal acts here, not criminal cheating, of course) to make your argument against it will not make it a crime.

Malfeasance = "wrongdoing or improper or dishonest conduct, especially by a person who holds public office or a position of trust."
24Bingo
24Bingo
Joined: Jul 4, 2012
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August 28th, 2012 at 2:07:29 PM permalink
WHY ARE YOU THERE.

Why are you so keen on swindling the casinos? Your "ever-so-slight advantage" isn't going to make you any money unless you grind away at it, day in and day out, dodging detection as you weather a storm of variance over which you have virtually no control. And for what? You own smug self-satisfaction that you've successfully taught the casino a valuable lesson about... putting out games funded by no other means, with odds in their own favor slightly enough that nearly as many players will walk away winners as losers? Yeah, they deserve to be conned out of every penny, just like they conned them out of all the people they were perfectly honest to over the years! Way to use your brain!
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.

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